Thecus Brings SATA to External Storage

[Terracotta]

I got my Thecus from Ajump. Newegg also carries them.

My application requires high bandwidth so there's no substitute for direct connect with internal controller. I'd have used internal RAID but my case
does not have room for it. Plus eSATA can be moved from system to system with additional controllers. I am not aware of any other eSATA offerings at this time.

Acom makes an external SATA drive but it's SATA, not eSATA. It's also a
single drive - I needed striping for bandwidth and if need be RAID 1 for redundancy. There are also other external SATA cases but they all take just one drive.

Even though USB 2.0 wire speed is 480m and firewire is 400m (800m) I never remotely approached wire speed with any of them. The low-end usb NAS I played with (Linksys, D-Link) is even slower - but convenient. But then, they do not provide RAID capability. The Netgear SC101 is not bad but not fast either. And the implementation is really pseudo RAID 1. Managing the multiple SC101s on a bad day could be a bear because of poor management tools and then of course it only supports Windows.

The Promise Connectstor II and the Iomega NAS are not bad - you get RAID 0/1 and RAID 0/1/5 respectively but it gets expensive. Bandwidth isn't there though since you're limited to 100BaseT. I can't afford the high-end NAS, SAN nor iSCSI so there's another limiting factor.

Just a thought - D-Link has an integrated Gbit unit (single drive only) that's reasonably priced. Poor implementation - can't use the WiFi and the Gbit at the same time and security is lousy. But forget about the switch, just drop a 64-bit Gbit card like Zyxel (real affordable) and hook up the D-Link unit directly to the system. I wonder if the performance would be better than Firewire 2?

jf

 

[Turbolach]

I will check the newegg site,thanks.

But reading the two negative comments here about the thecus being a "alpha" version and its relative secretive existance, I'm not sure I'd buy one.
What's your experience?

Like I said, NAS is not for me, the highend certainly not.
I have a linksys nslu, which is fine for low data transfer, but does not cut it when coping with larger transfers. Yesterday I decided I needed a complete backup of one of its discs. copying 80Gb takes a hell of a long time (upwards of 8 hours)

I find it strange, direct attached storage is so hard to find (on a budget)
It seems I'll have to make my own.

 

[Terracotta]

As I indicated in my previous post I consider the Thecus an alpha product. That said, it is fast, very fast, so I'll keep using it (I bought it, I own it ). Haven't had it long enough to draw any conclusion on the performance under actual day-to-day field use, yet.

A brief reflection... is the Thecus really part of NAS - Network Attached Storage? Hmm. But I digress.

I have the same experience with the Linksys. But as I said, it's affordable, it's fun, it's convenient. And for those adventureous type you can change the way it works with all the wonderful hacks people have done with the kernel.

As to [high-performance] direct attached storage on a budget I believe cheap high-performance is an oxymoron

I think I'll try the Zyxel with the D-Link this weekend. I also have a Gbit PCI-e card but I'll start with the 64-bit Zyxel first and see what it can do with a direct connect. Even though it does not go thru the switch may be it's still pNAS (private NAS)?

 

[Turbolach]

As to [high-performance] direct attached storage on a budget I believe cheap high-performance is an oxymoron
[/qoute]
Hey, don't you call me an airheaded moron

I don't need anything high-performance: as there's no place in my pc case for extra disks, they have to go in an external box. But I would like the same normal performance as the internal disks.
In my view: a simple solution consists of an external case, a cable to a internal controller and some disks.
Not here that is really expensive
I'd like raid 1 and disk trays system, and they will push the cost up.
I'll have to make myself, and knowing me, it'll be ugly

But finding a drive enclosure and disk tray system locally (belgium, europe) is proofing to be difficult and involves a great deal of luck.
the computer/component shops here tend to consider an external usb single disk to be enough.

 

[Terracotta]

I'd never dream of insulting our friends across the pond by calling you an airhead. But that did rank on my favorite list of oxymorons like, truth in advertising, happily married, express lane@ Sam's Club...

Couple more suggestions to chew on. Just keep in mind opinions are always freely given, no warranty expressed nor implied; or, your mileage may vary...

Before buying the Thecus I was contemplating doing a SATA RAID thus - most motherboard with SATA onboard supports RAID 0/1. Or just get a SATA RAID controller if you have a older system like I do. I love to have either 3Ware or Adaptec but I'll settle for Promise or Rocketport. Leave one drive in the system and use an external SATA enclosure for the other (or just buy Acom or similiar). SATA cable can go 1m so there should be plenty of distance to go. I have mixed feeling about this setup because everytime I change the internal drive I'd have to open up the case. Although of course I could use a removable tray. Hmmm. Wait a minute, I don't have room in my system :roll: or I would have gone internal.

I also thought about going back to the good old SCSI external enclosure with 15K U320 drives. But since I only have 2 arms and 2 legs left I chose door number 3 - el cheapo.

Just an FYI. Thecus does make external SATA RAID enclosures with Gbit interface but it's over $600.

Regards.

 

[Sokolum]

I hope that more manufacturers will bring this kind of product on the market, external housing with raid capabilities for a much cheaper price.
350 euro is to much.... you better buy a seccond hand system with raid.

 

[Sokolum]

I hope that more manufacturers will bring this kind of product on the market, external housing with raid capabilities for a much cheaper price.
350 euro is to much.... you better buy a seccond hand system with raid.

 

[Terracotta]

I agree the Thecus could be more affordable - US$160 for a eSATA case that does RAID 0/1 - and other manufacturers should enter the market because they will find a lot of other people like us who have a lot of use for them. It'd be interesting to have iSuppli do some numbers on their unit and estimate how much it really costs them to make it.

 

[mwk]

To estimate how much costs a company to manufacture certain product is always difficult -- IMHO
Different manufacturers have different bargaining power. So when you ask how much an IC costs, the IC vendor will ask you how much do you want, what's your forecast, then based on these factors they give different quotation to the product manufacturer. So a smaller company always have to spend more money on the same item.

 

[Terracotta]

True. Not only that, for smaller companies the distributors/suppliers sometimes demand larger than needed volume purchase, especially if the IC is on allocation. Been there, done that There are also other hidden costs and/or overhead that is different for different company. That said, there are also some general rules of thumb for estimating reasonable margin. I am just wondering (belatedly) if the Decus 2050 is within the ball park since it is against my religion to pay more than certain reasonable profit .

Case in point, the Gigabyte i-RAM. When it first hit the press the estimated street price was supposed to be around $80. But after all the hype and responses by the time it reached retail it was priced around $160. So, did someone got bad info, or it's just a case of what the market would bear :? ? I don't think Gigabyte is that small.

 

[tombew]

What about drive temperatures?
How can this be ignored?????????

 

[zdoe]

ok i got one of these. it's better than you would assume from the preceding. drives run a bit hot, but not substantially hotter than they'd run inside your main box. the enclosure is plasticy, but well designed.

compatibility with HD's - i've got two (different size) wd disks on a raid0 (obviously against thecus recommendation, but those are the ones i had lying around). they're NOT on the thecus supported list. no problemos. i get ~ 80mb/s sustained reads/writes, which is way enough for uncompressed SD video, probably good enough for two simultaneous streams.

yes, i would also much like it to power down with the computer it's attached to, and it does NOT. but the individual drives DO spin down if your (xp) box is set to switch off drives in the power settings after an idle period.

here's my gripe that i just emailed thecus about - the usb ports at the rear are NOT the ones that are normally at the rear of an external drive, but ones with the OTHER end of the cable, usually seen on your main box. so i don't know whether they work at all - at least they'd need a special cable with computer-end jacks at both ends.

i had just walked with the thecus to use it on someone else's computer... no such luck.

anyway, even with this reservation i think this is a great storage box. like someone else here, i need speedy DAS that i can plug into my laptop when i need to. i never tried firewire800 but i suspect it'll NOT be up to these speeds - specially if you don't have a pci-x bus to attach it to, like will be the case on a laptop.

anyway - has ANYONE here had any luck with the USB ports on this baby?

 

[Terracotta]

Yes. I did very cursory testing when I first got the unit. It worked. I didn't have a choice because as I wrote before the Silicon Image driver which came with the unit crashed Media Center XP everytime during install. I had to use the USB to make sure the unit is at least working. After I downloaded the new driver and got the unit working with eSATA I never went back to the USB.

I agree most peripherals typically use AB cable. Thecus does not. But I recall they did include an usb cable that works. Are you missing yours?

 

[zdoe]

thanks terracotta. i guess i just haven't looked at the box' contents that carefully - was happy with the eSata until i needed to use the drive elsewhere.

will take a 2nd look and likely find what i'd been missing. still, stupid of them, the OTHER cable would be ubiquitous & available everywhere.

 

[quaeler]

i have two of these (read: masochist). notes:

. neither came with the PCI eSATA card
. once is attached to an osX machine via usb and has been working fine (with two WD3200SD)
. the other is attached to a XPC shuttle running XP via a SIIG PCI estata card (with two WD2500JS jumpered to operate in SATA I)
. the card usually refuses to see the device on boot (it has seen it once - the first time)
. the N2050 attached to the XPC lost its HD1 blue led after two days
. average speed across the eSATA in copying multi gigabyte files is about 55 megabytes / second
. the quality of the case is flimsy, as stated before
. the quality of technical support is AWFUL - advice is unhelpful; non-responsive about 1/3 of the time.
. it's a true shame that no one more dependable is in this market space

 

[Sokolum]

Well, finnaly i bought a Thecus N2100.
The first thing i did is upgrading the device to the lastest firmware, v2.1.00. After the upgrade i build RAID-1 with 2x Maxtor DiamondMax 10 320Gb. To place the drive in the housing is very straight foreward, the drivce just falls into the connector of the chassis, that's very nice done!
Ofcourse you have to open the houding and pull-out the chassis, from the motherboard, after unscrewing some screws

I can't remember how long it took when the RAID1 buildup was finnished, i guess it took aprox 45 minutes. I was not in a hurry and you do this process only for one time (for a long time, i hope).

Then i started to do some short performance test's, i have to say, it exeecd my expectation!! IT IS FAST!! When you are transfering files with SMB. I transfered 10GB (yes, 10GBYTE) in less then 10 minutes or faster (I didn't used a stopwatch) with 100Mbit Ethernet. I always read that this device wasn't fast... I guess i was reading wrong So the performance is great, I have no problem for streaming DVD's

One strange thing, this device perfoms faster with SMB than with FTP.
Don't know why... But hey, i don't FTP for my small network in my house

My benefits it that my wife is happy, the data is stored more reliable then before. Before she kept her photo's and her email (outlook pst file) on the HD of her laptop. She was always afraid of a failing HD.Another benefit is that all our data is stored centrall, that's nice when you are working with 3 laptops and 1 MCE.

The cons,
- I wish i could connect my N2100 directly with a USB cable to a PC (nice when you bring your N2100 to a friend)
- The price... it's really heavy... But the price for loosing pictures or email too...
and relation ship

 

[redredred]

I wondered if any of the Thecus 2100 users could answer the following questions as I am considering buying one:

1. Can two PCs access the unit at the same time if connected to the two gigabit ethernet ports, or is a seperate gigabit switch needed?
2. Can other PCs also access the unit using the wireless if a PC is connected via the ethernet?
3.What kind of data transfer rats (rad and write) can be expected when using the gigabit ethernet ports?

Thanksfor any help eople can give.


Ian