thermal glue for the Athlon 64 x2 3800

[mpjesse]

Wow. You have a lot of time on your hands. And all for naught.

Believe me that I do have a lot more practical experience in dealing with those issues than you!

Isn't that a little hippocritical when in the same post you said this:

And as far as you do have an extensive knowledge it doesn't mean that my knowledge is lesser than yours, in deed I might know a little more than you think.

You DO NOT know my background, so be very carefull when you adress me.

Do you know my background? I don't question your background, I question your reasoning and intepretations.

And nothing in your lengthly post specifically says "using 3rd party thermal paste voids the warranty." And yes, you're right, AMD could refuse to the honor the warranty if they think you're actions were reckless. However, in my 15+ combined years of dealing with both AMD and Intel, they have never refused to replace any of my CPU's based on the fact that I had 3rd party thermal paste (always arctic silver) on the damaged CPU. I've replaced 2 processors in the past 5 years. One was intel and one was AMD. I never bothered to try and cover up or remove the fact that I was using Acrtic Silver. And guess what? They still replaced my CPU's. Previous to that I was a tech at a large computer chain based in Seattle. We bought all our CPU's in OEM trays direct from Intel and used our own cheap thermal paste. Intel never had a problem replacing our CPU's if they were bad or went bad.

And I never said AMD would replace anyone's CPU if they're overclocking. However, while we're on the topic, proving that someone was overclocking is extremely hard unless the chip is literally fried- which very rarely happens (i.e., the capacitors on the bottom of the CPU are BLACK or the die is brown). For all they know there was a power surge or the PSU flipped out. I doubt AMD has the time or patience to sit there and frigin run tests on the returned CPU. I've never personally fried a CPU from overclocking, but I've had plenty of friends that have and they had ZERO problems getting it replaced.

So chill out. Using Arctic Silver won't void the damned warranty no matter how much you say so or want to believe.

This is frigin enthusiast site. People around here don't care if they void the warranty. So take your AMD warranty interpretations and scream them in the AMD forums.

-mpjesse

 

[Grimmy]

Soo.. sooo.. sooo

Would it be safe to underclock and use.. veleeta cheese as a paste?

Oh nm.. I'm going to bed now.

 

[mpjesse]

LOL. Maybe if it was white cheese. ;-)

 

[pcrig]

And it's most definately not a grease. Grease is not a phase change material. Grease is always in liquid form. Last I knew AMD had a strong disliking any use of grease.

Well I just believe that you reinvented a grease.

thermal grease Shin Etsu

Grease might be in fluid or solid state, it all depend on viscosity, fillers and of course temperature and drip or metling point.

"Grease is a lubricant of higher initial viscosity than oil, consisting originally of a calcium, sodium or lithium soap jelly emulsified with mineral oil. Greases are a type of shear thinning or pseudo-plastic fluid, which means that the viscosity of the fluid is reduced under shear. After sufficient force to shear the grease has been applied, the viscocity drops and approaches that of the base mineral oil (or that of the EP additive for EP greases under heavy load). This sudden drop in shear force means that grease is considered a plastic fluid, and the reduction of shear force with time makes it thixotropic.

Greases are employed where heavy pressures exist, where oil drip from the bearings is undesirable, and/or where the motions of the contacting surfaces is discontinuous so that it is difficult to maintain a separating lubricant film in the bearing. Grease-lubricated bearings have greater frictional characteristics at the beginning of operation, causing a temperature rise which tends to melt the grease and give the effect of an oil-lubricated bearing. Calcium and sodium base greases are the most commonly used; sodium base greases have higher melting point than calcium base greases but are not resistant to the action of water. Lithium based grease has a drip temperature at 350° to 400°F and it resists moisture hence it is commonly used as lubricant in household products such as garage door openers. Graphite, either by itself or mixed with grease, is also employed as a lubricant. Teflon is added to some greases to improve on the lubricating property. Gear greases consist of rosin oil, thickened with lime and mixed with mineral oil, with some percentage of water. Special purpose greases contain glycerol and sorbitan esters. They are used, for example, in low-temperature conditions.

Some greases are labeled "EP", which indicates "extreme pressure". Under high pressure or shock loading, normal grease can be compressed to the extent that the greased parts come into physical contact, causing friction and wear. EP grease contains solid lubricants, usually graphite and/or moly, to provide protection under heavy loadings. The solid lubricants bond to the surface of the metal, and prevent metal to metal contact and the resulting friction and wear when the lubricant film gets too thin."


"This should not be confused with conventional phase change pads melt each time they get hot then re-solidify when they cool."



What AMD is using and recommending is Thermal Grease and not phase change material.

 

[pcrig]

So Artic Silver 5's instructions are wrong when removing a thermal pad?

From the point of CPU and electronic circuits "YES" it is wrong!

They are selling thermal conductivity enhancement materials and not processors!

Alcohol is "water based" degreaser.

listen to AMD Video!

Pay attention to Cleaning after removal avoid WET Chemicals such as acetone or alcohol.


Cleaning after Heat Sink Removal

thermal grease Shin Etsu

 

[SidVicious]

What is that "Warranty" thing that you speak of ?

Is is related to that useless heat spreader that I popped off my CPU ?

 

[pcrig]

Wow. You have a lot of time on your hands. And all for naught.

Believe me that I do have a lot more practical experience in dealing with those issues than you!

Isn't that a little hippocritical when in the same post you said this:

And as far as you do have an extensive knowledge it doesn't mean that my knowledge is lesser than yours, in deed I might know a little more than you think.

You DO NOT know my background, so be very carefull when you adress me.

Do you know my background? I don't question your background, I question your reasoning and intepretations.

And nothing in your lengthly post specifically says "using 3rd party thermal paste voids the warranty." And yes, you're right, AMD could refuse to the honor the warranty if they think you're actions were reckless. However, in my 15+ combined years of dealing with both AMD and Intel, they have never refused to replace any of my CPU's based on the fact that I had 3rd party thermal paste (always arctic silver) on the damaged CPU. I've replaced 2 processors in the past 5 years. One was intel and one was AMD. I never bothered to try and cover up or remove the fact that I was using Acrtic Silver. And guess what? They still replaced my CPU's. Previous to that I was a tech at a large computer chain based in Seattle. We bought all our CPU's in OEM trays direct from Intel and used our own cheap thermal paste. Intel never had a problem replacing our CPU's if they were bad or went bad.

And I never said AMD would replace anyone's CPU if they're overclocking. However, while we're on the topic, proving that someone was overclocking is extremely hard unless the chip is literally fried- which very rarely happens (i.e., the capacitors on the bottom of the CPU are BLACK or the die is brown). For all they know there was a power surge or the PSU flipped out. I doubt AMD has the time or patience to sit there and frigin run tests on the returned CPU. I've never personally fried a CPU from overclocking, but I've had plenty of friends that have and they had ZERO problems getting it replaced.

So chill out. Using Arctic Silver won't void the damned warranty no matter how much you say so or want to believe.

This is frigin enthusiast site. People around here don't care if they void the warranty. So take your AMD warranty interpretations and scream them in the AMD forums.

-mpjesse

I have no intention to bid my qualifications against yours as you are even not to my toe nails. I used to hire and very quickly fire people and some not because lack of qualifications but mainly due to their .... attitude .. creating counter productive environment, and atmosphere.

Well you have only 15 years experience.
You are acting on arrogance and self assurance, but you might trip yourself and land flat on your arse!

It is a lot easier to prove overclocking that you believe, manufacturer would stand by their product and rarely would spent money on prosecuting overclockers, rather will try to find reasons for failure with target on improving their process.

It is also sufficient if one wants to claim by AMD that static electricity when you handled processor damaged that processor, and it is up to you to prove otherwise

The fact that AMD replaced your damaged CPU is known as "GOOD FAITH", but they have had no obligation to do so, should they really didn't wanted. It is not a charitable organization.

Keep in mind that failure of other equipment causing the damage is also not covered under warranty.

I had a blown CPU due to Power Supply failure, and laptop was fried, and because it was a "set" the manufacturer was required to replace the laptop.

I am trying to be polite with you ... so I do expect same from you.

 

[SidVicious]

Your long winded lecture about warranty and the whitepaper quotes that you dug out won't impress anyone here, jesse won.

Fact is, hardware enthusiasts don't care, we push hardware beyond the manufacturer's enveloppe and know full well that we forfeit the warranty in doing so.

If you think that we're being unresoneable, mean and elitist, I dare you to post that stuff on XtremeSystems.

 

[pcrig]

Your long winded lecture about warranty and the whitepaper quotes that you dug out won't impress anyone here, jesse won.

Fact is, hardware enthusiasts don't care, we push hardware beyond the manufacturer's enveloppe and know full well that we forfeit the warranty in doing so.

If you think that we're being unresoneable, mean and elitist, I dare you to post that stuff on XtremeSystems.

Why should I care?

It is your money not mine!

Just don't cry that you fried your ass allso.




If you really want to vent yourself, use your a$$hole, as I have no intention to troll with you!

 

[spontayo]

someone with an old POS pentium should use Velveeta as a thermal compound. I'm really curious if it would work.

 

[mpjesse]

Well you have only 15 years experience.
You are acting on arrogance and self assurance, but you might trip yourself and land flat on your arse!

I have no intention to bid my qualifications against yours as you are even not to my toe nails. I used to hire and very quickly fire people and some not because lack of qualifications but mainly due to their .... attitude .. creating counter productive environment, and atmosphere.

Wow... and you call me the arrogant one? Whatever man. For the record, my occupation is NOT computers; it's my hobby.

So have fun with your rantings out in the middle of Iowa. I'm sure you're one of those old crazy dudes who owns some crap local computer store that charges ridiculous prices for things like zip ties and jumpers. I used to work for a guy like that. Make no mistake, he was very wise and knowledgable. However, his arrogance often made him look like an ass more than anything.

You're type of arrogance won't bode well in this environment. We're a group of young bucks who think they know everything (I'm sure that's what you think of us anyways). There's no room for old know it alls like you. (exceptions: RichPLS, Crashman, and a couple others)

Muahaha...

-mpjesse

 

[SidVicious]

Bolding your posts won't prove your point any further, same goes for your reference about my digestive tract or me sheding tears over the remote possibility of fried hardware.

You can wave those hypothetical years of experience in a 10 pages post or blog your little heart out for all I care, it won't make me sympathetic to your crusade against proven and widely used thermal interface materials and alternative cooling methods.

You get your kick from digging through whitepapers and quoting legalese, I get mine from getting the most out of my hardware, the only difference is that you are throwing a fit over insignificant details.

Go crawl back under your rock...

 

[pip_seeker]

But but but... wat about Velveeta cheese?? I read something about cheese somewhere... oh nm.

The funny thing is that Velveeta cheese might even make a fairly good TIM. It's a phase change material with a low melting point. The questions would be: 1) How thermally conductive is cheese? 2) What's Velveeta's burning point? :lol:

Ok now I'm hungry for grilled cheese.

 

[mpjesse]

/me taps his fingers together like mr. burns

Just for sh*ts and giggles I might conduct such a test. I've got plenty of old Athlon XP's laying around. It would make a fun article.

-mpjesse

 

[pip_seeker]

ok, but hold the thermal grease! :lol:

 

[mpjesse]

Awww come on. It's loaded with aluminum- a necessary nutrient.

BTW, I contacted Omid about doing an article on "the thermal conductivity of cheese." I'll let you know if he's interested in publishing this completely absurd idea.

;-)

-mpjesse

 

[SidVicious]

Awww come on. It's loaded with aluminum- a necessary nutrient.

BTW, I contacted Omid about doing an article on "the thermal conductivity of cheese." I'll let you know if he's interested in publishing this completely absurd idea.

;-)

-mpjesse

More likely to be published than a pontificate about the impact of thermal interface on manufacturer's warranties.

:lol:

 

[mpjesse]

True. People like to read completely stupid things. That's where I step in... hehe.

-mpjesse

 

[pcrig]

Well you have only 15 years experience.
You are acting on arrogance and self assurance, but you might trip yourself and land flat on your arse!

I have no intention to bid my qualifications against yours as you are even not to my toe nails. I used to hire and very quickly fire people and some not because lack of qualifications but mainly due to their .... attitude .. creating counter productive environment, and atmosphere.

Wow... and you call me the arrogant one? Whatever man. For the record, my occupation is NOT computers; it's my hobby.

So have fun with your rantings out in the middle of Iowa. I'm sure you're one of those old crazy dudes who owns some crap local computer store that charges ridiculous prices for things like zip ties and jumpers. I used to work for a guy like that. Make no mistake, he was very wise and knowledgable. However, his arrogance often made him look like an ass more than anything.

You're type of arrogance won't bode well in this environment. We're a group of young bucks who think they know everything (I'm sure that's what you think of us anyways). There's no room for old know it alls like you. (exceptions: RichPLS, Crashman, and a couple others)

Muahaha...

-mpjesse

My occupation also is not computers, but because of my financial interests I have to be on the peak of information technology.

You are acting as you know it all, a wise person know that knows nothing and is willing to learn at all time.
There is a common knowledge that every one has an a$$hole, but why you are trying to prove to me that you are one?
It is a free country and every one can use any soap he wants, you might use a velveeta cheese instead if that pleases you, and I don't care - it is not my money.

When you are wrong, as you are beyond reasobable doubt, you should conceive it that you are wrong, instead of dicking around and calling your heard of bucks for support. Your beautiful crown might end up on the wall above the "Port Cochere" in local hunting outlet faster than you think.
You have the right to make fool of yourself but for sure not at others cost. Being smart a$$ will allow you survive for a while, but once you fall on your a$$ no on will give you a hand to help you get up.

As I told you I am not interested with your RESUME and I have NO intention to discuss with you mine, I am not applying for a job, you can not afford me any way!

However, if you are enjoing in the middle of potatoe field in Iowa to suffer from AIDS (Acquired Intelligence Defficiency Syndrome) it doesn't mean I have to!
I do prefer wormer climates were people are able to use their gray cells for the benefit of all, and not just own inflated ego.

Well for sure you are young buck who apparently think that circumsision and castration is the same thing. Apparently you were castrated few years after you were circumsized, so it really doesn't matter in your case.
Learn one thing, never shit higher than your ass as you might have souer taste in your mouth at all time.

 

[mpjesse]

As I told you I am not interested with your RESUME and I have NO intention to discuss with you mine, I am not applying for a job, you can not afford me any way!

LOL. You're a legend in your own mind- I can't beat that. And yes I'm an asshole. The difference between me and you is that you do not realize you too are an asshole. LOL. I'm done trading threads with you.

Good luck to you and all your endeavors. I wish you much financial success and lots of naked women!

Sincerely,

-mpjesse

 

[zhe]

First, it isn't "glue". It is usually thermal tape that is pre-applied to retail CPU packages. All you need to do is properly install the CPU and put on the Heatsink/Fan correctly. Secondly, if you are NOT overclocking, don't worry about it. If you live in a very hot climate, then you may want to consider getting some Arctic Silver 5.

Well it is Thermal GREASE i.e. Shin Etsu not tape.:lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys are funny. And I believe both wrong. To my knowledge what comes on the processor is just a direct application of a phase change material. (A phase change material is solid when cold, and melts into the liquid needed to fill the gaps when it warms up.) It's generally called a thermal pad.

Last I knew it was not post-production application of an adhesive tape. Further, thermal tape is actually a generic term simply meaning any conductive material in a strip form with an adhesive on one at least one side. By the way, most thermal tapes are pure solids, often just a strip of aluminum or copper. Phase change tape is relatively rare by comparison.

And it's most definately not a grease. Grease is not a phase change material. Grease is always in liquid form. Last I knew AMD had a strong disliking any use of grease.

Should you use anything else you voided your Warranty!

This didn't use to be the case. AMD required the retail HSF, but was still allowing you to use your own thermal interface material (TIM). I know that they were contemplating the requirement of a phase-change material and outlawing all grease, but to my knowledge, they never actually made that warranty change. But then I haven't read a retail warranty from AMD recently. So has this actually changed now? Does the warranty actually require a specific TIM now? Do you have a link to AMD's retail warranty to show this?

i don't understand about all these discussion with warranty:

OVERCLOCKING VOIDS YOUR WARRANTY REGARDLESS!

y worry about ur warranty while u r going to do something that's fundamentally going to void it??

so velocci don't worry about what all these ppl say - if u r prepare to OC ur rig then u r on ur own - at ur risk. so best to read around and learn all about it first. could be a daunting experience i admit, but it's sooooooo much fun.

 

[mpjesse]

OVERCLOCKING VOIDS YOUR WARRANTY REGARDLESS!

There's an increasing trend with video card manufacturers to cover damage incurred by overclocking. In fact eVGA's warranty policy already COVERS overclocking. BFG and XFX are also going this way from what I hear...

-mpjesse

 

[zhe]

yes buddy but we r talking about CPUs here:-D.

powerful graphics cards aim at enthusiasts who obviously know what they r doing and what they want, so it's logical to do it. i don't see how ur average Joe will splash $600+ on a graphics card.

but CPUs on that other hand, even ur average Joe needs it.

 

[pcrig]

As I told you I am not interested with your RESUME and I have NO intention to discuss with you mine, I am not applying for a job, you can not afford me any way!

LOL. You're a legend in your own mind- I can't beat that. And yes I'm an *******. The difference between me and you is that you do not realize you too are an *******. LOL. I'm done trading threads with you.

Good luck to you and all your endeavors. I wish you much financial success and lots of naked women!

Sincerely,

-mpjesse

Thanks, about TIME!

Finaly you found out that I am already a legend ... may be not only in my mind.

Well learn to MYOB!

I LOVE NAKED WOMEN, THE BEAUTY IS WITHIN!

 

[pcrig]

yes buddy but we r talking about CPUs here:-D.

powerful graphics cards aim at enthusiasts who obviously know what they r doing and what they want, so it's logical to do it. i don't see how ur average Joe will splash $600+ on a graphics card.

but CPUs on that other hand, even ur average Joe needs it.

I might choose a Porsche but I doubt I would buy U$ 600.00 graphic card which after a year would sell for a dime on a buck!

Well some people are so concentrated on the target of their toughts that are drifting from the subject of:

"thermal glue for the Athlon 64 x2 3800" to young bucks overclocking VIDEO cards and still argue of tangent about their supremacy, like kin heads! with the "white power".

I guess thinking of velveeta cheese you can fry a lot of electrons.