THG Poor Analysis

McEwin

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First of all I would like to point out that I regularly read THG every other day (when there are new articals posted) for the last couple of years. I have a lot of respect for the reviews which are published and greatful for the information.

But one thing has realy been bugging me lately and that is the anotation of the results data.

I read costantly that "Pentium 4 2GHz has thrashed the AMD 2000+" (made up quote) when if you just LOOK at the results you can see that the the difference is about 0.1%.

For instance in the Geforce 4 artical he states for the max payne benchmark:

"At 1600x1200, the GeForce4 Ti4600 achieved double the frame rate as ATI's RADEON 8500!"

When the Radeon 8500 scored 37.4 (*2 = 74.8) while the GeForce Ti4600 scored 63.3. That is NOT double, its 69% higher. (which is still an awful lot but ITS NOT DOUBLE)

And again:
"The 4600 runs twice as fast as the R8500 and Ti500"
25.1 *2 (or 26.7) is NOT, I REPEAT NOT 38.7!!!!!!!!!!!

This is not the only garbage: most reviews have at least one stupid statement in.

So instead of writing crap would THG PLEASE tell us WHAT the benchmark is showing about the card. i.e. If future direct 8 games are going to show significant impovement over other cards due to its ....

That would be intresting.

McEwin


Oh and percentage difference would also be a more useful comparason. (To give an Idea that the new GeForce 4 say runs about 60% faster than Radeon 8500 cards at Max Payne (whatever))
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by McEwin on 02/07/02 07:20 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

eden

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You'll have to go to www.anandtech.com for real stats results.

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
 

Smilin

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I was griping about this some time ago. I can SEE what the graphs say, I want the "why?". Tom's has become increasingly opinionated and unprofessional. That "one stupid statement" you speak of...here it is:

"The test guys who ought to have caught this driver bug seem to be busy selling their stock or counting their money instead."

Like any of that was neccessary. Just a statement saying a bug slipped by QA would have been the facts. I don't really want to hear a PERSONAL attack on a company or it's employees. Keep your bitterness to yourself.

I want to know why a card does well in one benchmark and not another. Is it CPU limited? Does it have DX8 driver issues? Does anistropic filtering hurt performace? What?

I'm in complete agreement with Eden: You'll have to go to Anandtech if you want a real review.
 
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Guest

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Ya, Anandtech is very imfomative. I would get info from both site.
 

tfbww

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It's funny because not 6 months ago people were complaining that Tom was biased towards AMD. Funny that.


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Nature abhors a moron. -- HL Mencken
 

FatBurger

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Or instead of merely bitching about it here, you could write an email to the authors? This post will not solve anything.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
 

Smilin

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ROFL.

Email the authors. Teeheehee. Email Santa Clause too...You'll get a response from both I'm sure.

:)


In another response: Someone mentioned THG favoring AMD...

I've seen THG go back and forth between showing favoritism towards AMD and Intel, nVidia and ATI. In truth THG shows a lot of opinion mixed in with fact. Facts can't be misinterpreted but opinions frequently are depending whether the reader shares those same opinions. THG showing favoritism towards a particular manufacturer isn't a problem in itself so much as it is a symptom of a greater problem: THG shows a lack of profesionalism sometimes.

Please don't take this too hard. If I thought THG sucked I wouldn't be here. I just don't use THG as my sole source of hardware info any longer.
 

tfbww

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I can't help but laugh. If it were truly "favoritism" it wouldn't change between manufacturers. It's an opinion based on what he/they see in the results. Yes, it is an opinion so is based on objective and subjective information and its reasonable for people to disagree. But I don't believe its "favoritism" for the very reason that he would consistently "favor" one over the other.

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Nature abhors a moron. -- HL Mencken
 

Smilin

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No seriously. Ask anyone who's a longtime reader. It's kinda like the way announcers at football games always jock whoever is in the lead.
 
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Well, it's a hardware resource. If anyone doesn't like THG, has two possibilities:
1. Start a hardware resource on their own and
2. Never access THG anymore.

I wish my brain was an Athlon XP
 

bikeman

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You are right. I've been reading THG for two years now (not at a constant rate, but I at least visited THG every month to read most important articles and had some very long periods of checking things every day. Exams are quite a good reason not to spend two hours a day staying up-to-date in computer-world ...) and after being an Intel adept he (Tom himself) got addicted to AMD and now he's getting back to neutral again. Same goes for the nVidia-ATI-debacle.
And yes, AnanTech really is a valuable source of info, too. It's a pitty though that he makes this little reviews. And acually, as a hardware enthousiast, you should be capable of reading articles without being irritated about the opinion of the author. It's not that hard to extract the objective information from an article.
But still, Tom sometimes says things that should better be posted on his forum than in his articles ...
 

eden

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I have one gripe of Anandtech, it's their calling of Geforce 2 Tis, as Ti200s!!!!!!!! They confuse the hell outta me when you got the GF3 Ti200 and the GF2 Ti together in a graph, but the latter displayed as GF2 Ti200!

--
The other day I heard an explosion from the other side of town.... It was a 486 booting up...
 

tfbww

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Not to harp on this (ok, it is to harp on this ;)...

So Tom is like a football announcer and is "jocking" whoever is in the lead? So now that the P4 is reaching acceptably good levels (and is ridiculously oc'able) and he gives it the props, that's bad? I'm very confused. Again, I thought that was reviewing products, not favoritism.

(BTW, I have an Athlon so I'm not pumpin' the P4 here, just an example, let's not turn this into a chip bash)

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Nature abhors a moron. -- HL Mencken
 

tfbww

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THG is kinda like a TV or a radio. If you don't like what's on, change the channel. No other media will tell Tom like this one that readership is down so that's a pretty strong message.

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Nature abhors a moron. -- HL Mencken
 

Smilin

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That's not the stuff I take issue with. The new P4 is an excellent product and I would expect him to praise it. Bah...I can't explain it without spending an hour cutting and pasting quotes for you.

Just keep the thought in mind as you read stuff in the future. I think you'll see the pattern.

In response to:
"(BTW, I have an Athlon so I'm not pumpin' the P4 here, just an example, let's not turn this into a chip bash)
"

lol. You've been on this board long enough to know to qualify your statments. hehe. Say a bad thing about either intel or amd and the zealots will come for your soul. :)
 

varlo

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lol. You've been on this board long enough to know to qualify your statments. hehe. Say a bad thing about either intel or amd and the zealots will come for your soul. :)
Witch is the main reason i now come to the vid cards forum,but only to see that here it's the ATI vs Nvidia war...well if you can't beat them...join them.

The finny thing is that i'm not pro intel or AMD or ATI or Nvidia or VIA or SIS or....you get my point,and yet ppl are teling me: "well go for this or that it's better..." crap.
As far as i'm concern i vote for the best,show me otherwise and i'll change my vote in the second!

So lets go on and lets go to WAR mouhahahaha!!!

Sorry for my spelling I'm french...hey I ain't perfect!
 

McEwin

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I think you are moving away from the point.

This thread was nothing to do with favourtism it was a complaint about the unnecessary comments and poor analysis of test data. I was interested to find out if anyone else shared the same opinon about the reviews.

I DO read other sites and I know that I don't have to visit the site but as someone touched-on earlier I would rather see these comments ommitted and a technical analysis given.

The AMD/Intel comment was just a made-up example of the rediculous comments made about test data. Nothing to do with bias opinions.
 

RaPTuRe

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I don't really think that anyone can criticise Tom. He is a journalist (in a sense) and journalists always illustrate some bias, but that is human nature. Tom's reviews aren't just hard fact which, in my opinion, is great i would probably not regard THG as the best of the best if he didn't add a certain personal touch to it. IF you don't like the reviews, you're welcome to author your own website, but I'll tell you that Tom hasn't made it this far by luck! I think that he's doing an excellent job and I wouldn't go anywhere else for my HWinfo.

(don't forget that the aim of a website [like any entrepreneural endeavour] is success, and if he just droned on about facts with no sugar coating, it would probably scare a lot of readers away, which is the exact opposite)

He represents the truth at the time, and often sets the standard for public opinion.

"The answer to life's problems aren't at the bottom of a beer bottle, they're on TV."
 

yellowood

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To the comment: "I don't really think that anyone can criticise Tom." Personnally, I think everybody can and should be able to take criticism from anyone. You can keep whatever suits you.

But I do agree that a review is not all about facts. The main reason I read the articles is find out what THG thinks about this new piece of hardware or this other one. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I disagree and sometimes I really don't care.

Sure benchmarks are fine, but in the end I want to read opinions like for example that video card A is about twice as fast as video card B or processor A is a much better value than processor B because blah, blah, blah.

I say let us have more opinions. Let THG take more firm stands on new hardware. And let us debate it here. :)

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It's a shame we have only one soul to sell...
 

McEwin

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You raise a fair point about the fact that this is now more of a hardware journalists site than a thechnical site. But those that have read for several years now do get tied of some of the poor analysis and dumb comments.

To say you don't go anywhere else for your hardware reviews means that you are increadibly short sited. (no pun intended) THG reviews do provide a resonable technical insight and a good test bed. But its not what we've come to expect.

Tom, generally speaking, is not the worst, its the other reviewers. I have complete admiration of what he has achieved. Some constructive criticism is never a bad thing.

Your "author your own website" comment is flippent and moronic.
 

Black_Cat

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One thing that everyone must remember is that Dr. Pabst and contributors to THG have clout. Every manufacturer knows of him and THG and respects his authority. He meets with representatives at various shows like COMDEX. If Pabst or his cronies take a jab at a particular manufacturer, I believe it is done to overtly bring attention to a particular wrongdoing or shortcoming. A kick in the pants so to speak. Just remember that THG is here to entertain as well as inform. This thread would not have come to fruition had it not been for an opinionated article! It's good to get people talking. Also, keep in mind who is writing these articles. If the writer has a particular beef with certain manufacturers just take their opinions with a grain of salt.

What?
 

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