This has to change on this forum! A disservice to all.

[MisterSavage]

I rely on Tom's so much. For years it has been like this. It's a gold mine. From community experts! Us. The people. So I say this.

Shame on Tom's for locking threads. Can you imagine a 10 year old thread with a bunch of dead links, old information, yet it cannot be updated or corrected by a member today? So there is no fix permitted.

How can this be!?

Any expert here should know that for example, 4th Gen Intel is brilliant. 4790K? Still a powerhouse. Z87 and Z97 are everywhere. Long lasting. Well built.

Now you telling me, here, that threads are dead and locked? Yes they are! I cannot give thanks. I cannot update. I cannot help another person save HOURS and HOURS of banging their head on the wall.

Why? Explain the logic here. Like ASUS removing thousands of product pages on products still being used, sold and being tweaked to this day. But Tom's? The community? Locking out threads because of a date?

Shame on you guys.

Source (just one unbelievable example):

Asus BIOS updater for Devil's Canyon won't recognize Intel MEI Driver [Asus Z87-A]

I got a second hand system and ordered some upgrades with the i5-4690K among them. To use the new processor, I gotta update the BIOS firmware. I can't do it from a usb/ the BIOS menu; I tried that and the computer won't POST with the new processor. (The processor debug LED stays lit) Any time I...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[USAFRet]

Explain the logic here.

Almost always, the case is thus:

Brand new user sees a thread and says - "I have the same problem, can you help me?"
This, on a 6 year old thread, with a viable Solution already published.
All participants in that thread are long gone. Haven't been seen here in years.

A new member would not get any attention, because no one is looking at that old thread.

Further, it is never "the same problem". Symptoms might be somewhat similar, but the hardware and software stack is not.

Such a user is advised to start their own thread, for their particular issue.

The old thread and its info is not gone. It is still there for all to see and benefit from.


Also, such ancient threads become spam targets. We see this daily.

 

[Math Geek]

no one is going to come back after 10 years and update an old post to fix dead links. someone with a new question should make a new thread to ask about it. any new info such as links can be put there. i have personally answered thousands of questions and don't even want to think about trying to keep tabs on what links might be where and trying to keep up with whether they still work or not.

if it is a sticky thread with important info, then it is maintained and updated as needed. whomever is keeping tabs on it (staff, mod, other user) will have the power to keep it updated when needed.

something new needs to be in a new thread plain and simple

 

[MisterSavage]

It's not about dead links. And yeah, I know all about spam. So what?

There is no justification. All this does? It leads to confusion. In this example? At the very least I could update the thread!

Google loves Tom's. That's obvious. With that comes responsibility. If you are justifying this situation? Then it says to me that you don't work on old computers. You don't seek solutions on older hardware. In other words, you've lost touch.

The answers are here. By experts. You can go ahead and look at page views and see just how many thousands of people come to those old pages to seek help on their older hardware. If you are shilling new Intel hardware, I get it. If you are saying you need 7th Gen Intel vs. Devil's Canyon or that DDR4 is way better than DDR3? That's shilling.

If you cannot relate to what I'm saying, then you are not the end user. And believe me, 4th generation Intel is just fine. Not everyone needs new. Even in your own article, you proved that a 4770K can run 4K with barely a difference than new hardware.

So I will say this again. If you can't relate to this issue, then you do not update/upgrade/fix old hardware. You've simply lost touch. If you think Wikipedia should just leave as is? No updates? Too much hassle? Spam issues? Better to annoy or mislead the public who come to read or get help?

You don't offer a solution. Just excuses or some justification. Old threads can be active. Or, maybe do like Google and ASUS and start wiping history off the internet so that you can troubleshoot or fix anything because they deem it old and useless. What you should do? Go look around at used marketplaces. Get back in touch with this community.

 

[MisterSavage]

I will issue this challenge. That thread I linked. Please post the daily/monthly views of that thread. Then you tell me your criteria for the lock hammer.

My solution: Have a link on your lock hammer post, so that you can appeal or send request to unlock and update a thread with pertinent information. And that what's in the thread, has old links, etc. that can be updated. In other words, a request to improve a previous discussion that probably thousands of people will read, and like bang their head on the wall for hours if not days. Rather than that, come up with something. Or just pretend it's a non issue.

 

[Math Geek]

sadly, sure seems like this is not the place for you. i guess there is some place out there with every single thread ever started is maintained and updated on the regular so you can always have what you apparently feel like you need.

but as stated above, it's just not gonna happen here for the stated reasons. do drop in and let us know where you settle on the great wide interwebs that caters to your desires. would be interesting to know what you find.

or hey, you could maybe start your own forum where everything will stay just awesome at all times.

or you could just ask a question that you can't find the anwer to here and we'll be more than happy to do what we can to offer whatever help we can. that's kind of why were here

 

[MisterSavage]

What a great representative of the community. Like I said, post some view counts on these locked threads. I wouldn't expect an apologist to agree with me. Member since 2014 says to me you don't know or haven't seen a 4th Gen Intel system in your day. Intel, ASUS and the likes would most certainly like these robust, well build motherboards and hardware to go away. I'm sure the forum/thread views tell a different story. So as for the "Math Geek", I'm sure you don't represent many users around here. The minority will be troubleshooters. Of course. I never said for threads to be maintained. Blocking community from updating or saying thanks, or that this still works in 2023? If you take issue with that, and you are the "norm" around here, then I suppose this identifies why things are they way they are. I certainly hope you're not in the decision room.

 

[USAFRet]

Member since 2014 says to me you don't know or haven't seen a 4th Gen Intel system in your day.

I have a Z97 4790k system sitting across the room from me.

Parts outlined in my signature, under BigBrother.

 

[MisterSavage]

I will respectfully stand by my point. Wikipedia doesn't just leave information on the internet. They don't say, "well somebody can start a new page if the information is outdated and needs to be updated". They don't say, " Even though a thousand people are going to read this, let's lock it even if the information is somewhat invalid or incorrect". I know that we're talking about computer parts or computer hardware, but it's the same principle. It doesn't make any sense. And I'm not expecting anyone other than the community, to update threads or add to old threads. It's just the fact that they are frozen and locked out forever. Even if I wanted to direct somebody to a newer thread, I wouldn't be able to do that because the thread and discussion is locked. That's what I consider a disservice to the community. Spam is an issue on new threads or old threads. If we all worried about spam, the none of us would have email accounts.

And yes, I commend you on your choice of a Z97 and 4790k. Hardware that was built to actually last.

 

[DRagor]

Blocking community from updating or saying thanks

Even if thread is locked and you want to thanks someone you can still directly message them using 'conversations'. Anyone else can reach you same way in case they want some explanation on the thread you made or participated. Deleting threads would be a problem, blocking them is not. It is in fact a form of maintenance - perhaps most crude one but the forum does not have an army of freelancers to make up better form. Finally, if you have a valid reason to do some changes on locked thread nothing stops you from asking one of the mods to temporarily unlock it. The key however is being polite to the people who spend their free time helping with the forum. You know, being nice gets you further then being right.

 

[MisterSavage]

Even if thread is locked and you want to thanks someone you can still directly message them using 'conversations'. Anyone else can reach you same way in case they want some explanation on the thread you made or participated. Deleting threads would be a problem, blocking them is not. It is in fact a form of maintenance - perhaps most crude one but the forum does not have an army of freelancers to make up better form. Finally, if you have a valid reason to do some changes on locked thread nothing stops you from asking one of the mods to temporarily unlock it. The key however is being polite to the people who spend their free time helping with the forum. You know, being nice gets you further then being right.

I was already nice by explaining that Tom's forum is a gold mine of information and help topics. I was also very complimentary towards the fact and giving credit to the community members who made this happen.

I'm suggesting there should be a way to notify or request that a thread could be temporarily unlocked. I appreciate your alternate solutions. If nobody from the Tom's community feels this is an issue or a need, then I guess it will just remain as is. Until of course somebody decides that none of the threads are needed and they start deleting them all together. I guess my main issue is who decides when a thread is expired? What's the threshold? I personally think it should be based on how many views. If nobody's seen the thread, or if Google's not sending people to a thread, then maybe I could understand to a certain extent why it would be locked. But just to base it on somebody's opinion or some random date on a calendar doesn't make any sense. Again, this doesn't discount anything or the value that the forums provide. The best experts on the planet are around here. I realize that. They're also very generous with their time and effort in helping people troubleshoot. People should never lose sight of the fact that there are thousands of people around the world who use older computer equipment and need solutions. So to me it's a battle against Google who likes to delete old information. I do not have the ability to help other people who would be reading and relying on the same information that I used. Yes, I was able to figure it out. Thanks to that thread. But it made a one hour job into about 2 days. At the end of the day, I'm extremely relieved that I figured it out. As any computer enthusiast would know that feeling.

 

[USAFRet]

I'm suggesting there should be a way to notify or request that a thread could be temporarily unlocked.

Send a request to a Moderator.

 

[Rokinamerica]

So you are hoping to connect with the other guy still asking about 10 year old hardware?

 

[USAFRet]

I guess my main issue is who decides when a thread is expired? What's the threshold?

Forum Tips & Best Practices

Forum Tips & Best Practices Online forums are a great place for people to meet up and share thoughts on things they love. Forums have been around quite a while, but it can be very helpful to learn a few important things that can substantially improve your experience here. Steps you can take to...

forums.tomshardware.com

"Check the date of the last post in a thread before replying. If the most recent post is more than 3 months old, create a new thread on the same topic. You can link to the previous thread as reference, but we want to avoid “necro” posts that attempt to resuscitate old threads."


Note: We don't just automagically close things at the 3 month point. But when someone comes in with "I have the same issue!" after several years....closed, and the member advised to create a NEW thread for their specific situation.

 

[DSzymborski]

And the fact is, replying pointlessly to threads to "correct" something from a solved problem from a decade ago causes real harm to people with problems now. Every time you bump a thread in 2023 to "help" someone who wanted GPU purchasing advice in 2013, someone with a *real* problem, right now, is going to see their post, with their problem, bumped off the front page.

When you go to a doctor and both you and the other guy in the waiting room have a cough, does the doctor diagnose that patient and say "well, you have a cough too, so whatever I'm prescribing from him, I'm prescribing for you." Encouraging people to treat non-identical problems in identical ways because of similar symptoms can be just as deadly for computers as for people.

We take safety *very* seriously here. We address problems as individual situations because they *are* individual situations. You appear to want slapdash, careless, one-size-fits-all PC diagnosis, which is something we don't do here.

 

[MisterSavage]

Thank you for the feedback. This is what I'm hearing. First, I'll draw my own conclusions.

I really think it's impossible to relate unless you have been sitting there trying to find solutions on the internet. I'm not sure how many people replying in this thread have been sitting there with a 10-year-old computer trying to troubleshoot a bios update or a CPU related issue.

So how could I convince anyone there is a problem the current lockdown arrangement creates? When the policy makers really have no idea what it's like? I'm trying to convince people of a problem that they really have no experience dealing with themselves. Sorry to put it this way. I know it sounds disrespectful. Not meant to be disrespectful.

All it would take is a updated note from another community member who is dealing with the same issue.

What people here are failing to realize is this. Google is the one sending us to these old forum posts. So that is the problem. When those are locked down they cannot be updated even though all the traffic is going there for troubleshooting. In this example, I could add to that thread and update it so that over running into the same issue, won't be on a wild goose chase. Looking for a solution. And? My reply would be on a thread that Google is sending everyone to. But instead what I'm hearing is that no, this is a policy. This is the way it works. This is the way it works best. When I'm sitting here as an end user say no. This does not work.

And to clarify. I'm not looking to reply to somebody who's been here 10 years ago. That's not the point at all. It's about modifying a solution that worked 10 years ago to update it so that somebody can use the same solution with resources that still exist online to solve their problem.

Lastly, I challenge anyone to post the traffic, the views that these threads are getting. How many people is Google sending to those old locked threads. With that, you would think comes a responsibility or at least a mechanism where the community can update a thread. I can point back to my Wikipedia example. How ridiculous would it be if they locked out pages but left them online? And on top of that Google was sending a bunch of people to them . Apparently the solution is create another thread. Even though Google's sending everybody to the old one. This does not solve the problem.

And here's another thing that I don't understand. People complaining when an old thread gets bumped. Guess what? If the thread got bumped, that means it was useful to somebody. It means that it had a use. And it affects you how? Because it's an old thread and it doesn't apply to you? Well it applied to somebody. That's why it got bump. That's why it's back on the front page. Is that such a big deal? The end of the world crisis?

Such is life. At least I tried.

In closing, I have a ton of respect for people who are willing to share their expertise for free on a forum. To help people troubleshoot their computer issues. I hope they realize how valuable what they offer is. For free.

 

[USAFRet]

Closed posts still exist and are publicly available.
Per your mention of google.

The information has not disappeared.

If you have a valid reason to unlock and edit an old thread, please contact a Moderator.

 

[USAFRet]

And here's another thing that I don't understand. People complaining when an old thread gets bumped. Guess what? If the thread got bumped, that means it was useful to somebody. It means that it had a use. And it affects you how? Because it's an old thread and it doesn't apply to you? Well it applied to somebody. That's why it got bump.

Bumping is simply "I and my post is more important than anything else."
Given no constraints, people would bump their thread up to the top every 15 minutes.
Crowding out threads from everyone else.

Yes, we've seen that happen.

Don't do that.


If a particular thread got no responses, that could be for a multitude of reasons.
No one knows or poor description, for example.


This is also outlined in the Do's and Don'ts.

 

[Rogue Leader]

I will issue this challenge. That thread I linked. Please post the daily/monthly views of that thread. Then you tell me your criteria for the lock hammer.

We (the moderators) don't even have access to those statistics. And while you may believe that there is a large amount of traffic looking at this info, we can assure you there is not. You are vastly in the minority.

We do not auto lock threads. However in almost EVERY case of a thread of that age being opened and it gets replied to one of the following situations happens:

1. Straight up spam
2. A completely unrelated question
3. Someone saying "hey did you ever figure this out"?
4. Someone with a vaguely related question.

The problem is the person who asked the question hasn't been here since 2015, the person who answered the question hasn't been here since 2016. Neither person is answering that thread. This site is also gamefied in a way, where people get points and trophies for best answers. So a thread like that one with a best answer already selected is for the most part going to be ignored. This is why if someone has a legit question in an old thread like that we delete it and advise the person to start a new thread. There is a 100%+ better chance that someone who knows the problem will respond with relevant info/links.

This method WORKS, it keeps old threads that people are not going to respond to (because they are answered) and have an extremely limited audience off the front pages, and provides instant access to live active site members to people who can answer their question. Think about the user experience if everyone was just digging up old threads, and their questions were ignored. Because thats what happens. If it even does get replied to you start getting people conversing with inactive members who will never answer.

That said if there is an old thread, that is closed, that you have relevant info that could help someone going forward, there are multiple ways to contact the moderation team and we can work to add your info. The info can be added, and if someone googles it, which is the most likely way they would see it, they will find it.

In closing, I have a ton of respect for people who are willing to share their expertise for free on a forum. To help people troubleshoot their computer issues. I hope they realize how valuable what they offer is. For free.

Which brings me to this. Tom's has almost 3 million members, yes not all active, but as you can see millions upon millions of threads, and a team of about 15 active moderators mostly US based to handle it. FOR FREE. In addition to sharing our wealth of knowledge. Maybe before telling us how to do our job, you consider that all of us have been doing this here for a VERY long time, and have a pretty solid handle on what works and what doesn't. All things you do not see as a user of the forum. So before tossing stones at the people who are the last line between this place and chaos, you should show us a little respect, instead of trying to tell us how to do our jobs. Or maybe let me know where you work and I would be happy to come by, watch for 5 minutes, and tell you how to do it.

And on that note this thread is closed, because its clear from your replies you are not wanting to hear what we are saying, and we don't need to continue in circles. If you have further issues feel free to PM me or any other member of the moderation team.