Those new Bose PA speakers

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Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

in article ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com, Scott Dorsey at kludge@panix.com
wrote on 9/13/04 8:16 PM:

> George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
>> Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
>> 2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
>
> I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
> you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out of
> a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the PA.
> --scott

A Fender Super Champ, or a Blues Jr, or even a Deluxe, are all great
tonebabies and would indeed be killer-sounding and a great level-match in
anything that the sticks would cut well.

 

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in article g.p.gleason-D778D3.20295913092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net,
George at g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net wrote on 9/13/04 8:29 PM:

> In article <ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com>,
> kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>> George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
>>> Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
>>> 2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
>>
>> I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
>> you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out of
>> a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the PA.
>> --scott
>
>
> What does a couple of used champs cost, maybe 175$ even new I bet I
> could get 2 for under 400.00
> then I would have at least 1600.00 left that I didn't spend on the bose
> to further my training in appreciation of scotch 🙂
> George

I'm cornfoosed, how did this get to the absurd idea of using the Sticks for
electric guitar???
EG belongs in an amp radiating direct to the audience, just like a big box
of resonant wood belongs around a double-bass.
amps come in all sizes for different size venues.

 

[george]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <BD6C6BD5.24F6%ten.nozirev@dlywsinhoj.com>,
JoVee <ten.nozirev@dlywsinhoj.com> wrote:

> in article g.p.gleason-D778D3.20295913092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net,
> George at g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net wrote on 9/13/04 8:29 PM:
>
> > In article <ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com>,
> > kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> >
> >> George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
> >>> Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
> >>> 2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
> >>
> >> I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
> >> you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out
> >> of
> >> a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the
> >> PA.
> >> --scott
> >
> >
> > What does a couple of used champs cost, maybe 175$ even new I bet I
> > could get 2 for under 400.00
> > then I would have at least 1600.00 left that I didn't spend on the bose
> > to further my training in appreciation of scotch 🙂
> > George
>
> I'm cornfoosed, how did this get to the absurd idea of using the Sticks for
> electric guitar???
> EG belongs in an amp radiating direct to the audience, just like a big box
> of resonant wood belongs around a double-bass.
> amps come in all sizes for different size venues.
>

Bose says it is THE solution to all bands sound needs
St. Davey insists that backline is not required if you have the Bose SOS
Bost tells you things like tone and volume are better handled with thier
presets than your ears
George

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
>
> Bose says it is THE solution to all bands sound needs
> St. Davey insists that backline is not required if you have the Bose SOS
> Bost tells you things like tone and volume are better handled with thier
> presets than your ears
> George

that's true. The rep had us plug directly in, he adjusted some presets
by looking at a chart and matching it with what we were playing. For
example, he asked what kind of bass I was playing and he selected the
preset for that bass from a set of charts. Same for the guitarist.
That was kinda weird.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <KCC1d.8237$iS2.4@trnddc09>,
Billhw13 <bill.lagreca@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> Bose says it is THE solution to all bands sound needs
>> St. Davey insists that backline is not required if you have the Bose SOS
>> Bost tells you things like tone and volume are better handled with thier
>> presets than your ears
>> George
>
>that's true. The rep had us plug directly in, he adjusted some presets
>by looking at a chart and matching it with what we were playing. For
>example, he asked what kind of bass I was playing and he selected the
>preset for that bass from a set of charts. Same for the guitarist.
>That was kinda weird.

That is totally moronic.
But it's not surprising, given Bose's marketing guys.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
> Because when your stage levels start getting high, the way the whole room
> is covered (ie. the wide dispersion) becomes a quick path to feedback.
> Your question is what sort of stage levels can you get away with in the
> sorts of halls that you play in. I can't answer that for you, but an audition
> for a couple gigs might.
> --scott
>
I see. Thanks Scott.
We try not to be too loud - but I have no idea what that level is in
relation to the feedback of the PAS. Like you said - we'd have to try it.

 

[george]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <KCC1d.8237$iS2.4@trnddc09>,
Billhw13 <bill.lagreca@verizon.net> wrote:

> >
> >
> > Bose says it is THE solution to all bands sound needs
> > St. Davey insists that backline is not required if you have the Bose SOS
> > Bost tells you things like tone and volume are better handled with thier
> > presets than your ears
> > George
>
> that's true. The rep had us plug directly in, he adjusted some presets
> by looking at a chart and matching it with what we were playing. For
> example, he asked what kind of bass I was playing and he selected the
> preset for that bass from a set of charts. Same for the guitarist.
> That was kinda weird.
>

I encourage you to take it out to a few diffrent clubs and see how you
like it for real
it may be perfect
it may be a disaster or it may fall inbetween for you
George

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> No. The Bose speakers will not handle electric guitar. They weren't intended
> for that. They are intended to _replace_ your club PA for vocals, while the
> backline provides all the guitar sound. They'll handle acoustic guitar and
> vocal together reasonably well. They aren't _for_ big electric guitar groups
> in clubs with PA. That's not what they do. Any attempt to use them with a
> full rock band will be disasterous, but that's not what they are for and that
> is not the market they are being sold into.

Could they not be used to boost a miced backline just as PA
speakers are used if the backline doesn't have the balls for
the job itself?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

 

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Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Cain <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> No. The Bose speakers will not handle electric guitar. They weren't intended
>> for that. They are intended to _replace_ your club PA for vocals, while the
>> backline provides all the guitar sound. They'll handle acoustic guitar and
>> vocal together reasonably well. They aren't _for_ big electric guitar groups
>> in clubs with PA. That's not what they do. Any attempt to use them with a
>> full rock band will be disasterous, but that's not what they are for and that
>> is not the market they are being sold into.
>
>Could they not be used to boost a miced backline just as PA
>speakers are used if the backline doesn't have the balls for
>the job itself?

Maybe, but they won't go very loud. I think if you try this (or you try
using the Pod through it), you'll be horribly disappointed. Maybe in a
dry enough room it might be okay.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:35:31 -0700, Bob Cain
<arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote:

>Could they not be used to boost a miced backline just as PA
>speakers are used if the backline doesn't have the balls for
>the job itself?

Balls may turn out to be the nut-cuttin' issue.

Chris Hornbeck
" ** this NG is chock full of metal midgets"

 

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Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> whatever happened to the Frazier Cat-40s? That might
> not be a bad setup for a singer-songwriter act. I always thought those had
> the most natural vocal sound of any horn-loaded system I heard. Not available
> at your local music store, mostly because Frazier's marketing guys aren't in
> Bose's class.

Appears to be here <http://www.frazierspeakers.com/c40.htm>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> whatever happened to the Frazier Cat-40s? That might
>> not be a bad setup for a singer-songwriter act. I always thought those had
>> the most natural vocal sound of any horn-loaded system I heard. Not available
>> at your local music store, mostly because Frazier's marketing guys aren't in
>> Bose's class.
>
>Appears to be here <http://www.frazierspeakers.com/c40.htm>

Yes, and it looks like Frazier still makes a roadable version of the thing
as well. But have you ever actually seen one for sale, or seen one put into
a recent install, or ever seen a Frazier ad in a post-1970 magazine? What
happened?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[RickyZ]

You guys all sound like experts. And you probably are. I just rely on my perfect pitch.

I use 15"JBL's for the large rooms or outdoors,
with a small cheap vocal monitor and a couple of 12" BMB multidirectional speakers w/o a
monitor for the smaller venues.
Using Shure wireless mics - my sound is awesome! I do karaoke 5 nights a week.
Compliments abound and I attract incredible vocalists to my venues. It almost sounds like
they are in the studio. I've heard the Bose poles at several places and it's not a rich warm
full sound like I am able to create.

 

[Jer Dude]

My band has used 4 sticks and Mackie powered 18"s for about 5 years now.
The best sound I have ever had in a band, bar none.
We also use wireless in/ear monitors with "Bose" earbuds.
The only way to go.
Jerry

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

OK, I saw a band a couple of weeks ago with those new Bose PA stick
thingies. Don't hate me... but I was surprised... they sounded way better
than I thought they would. Not muddy... a bit bright, but not too much so.
It DID sound... well... more hi fi then most bands I've seen at the same
location (an outdoor Friday night concert series). Less muddy. The sweet
spot was much wider than I've heard at that location too, which surprised
me. They didn't use monitors. The vocalist appeared to hear herself well,
had no pitch problems. The drummer was live and I think NOT miced. It's
possible the kick was miced, I didn't look. It seemed everyone could
control their own individual volume very well and mix together.

Keyboards were direct (and keys played bass too). Live guitar, drummer,
percussionist, and sax. I have to say, surprisingly, the idea seems to have
worked out, at least in this case. I can see it working in many cases,
though not larger venues... but that's not really an issue for me.

Anyway, the question.... it seems like it wouldn't be difficult at all to
roll your own similar system. It seems to me there are a few of things
going on here that make the system work:

- smaller diameter drivers in the mains so no low mid muddiness buildup (the
usual bose lack of lower mids)
- wide dispersion of audio from drivers to make monitors unnecessary
- some sort of feedback reduction in each unit
- omnidirectional nature of bass frequencies

Thoughts? Has anyone thought of doing their own similar system, using some
aspects of the Bose system and improving on them? Is there more voodoo
going on then I'm aware of?

Info is appreciated... thanks!


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