time control & skullclamp & unforge

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

First, when playing in the on-line booster drafts, typically each
player is given 30 minutes of "priority time" per match. What are the
rules for when your time runs out? Does MTGO let you finish the game?
Give you five more turns? Or do you just lose for not having moved in
time?

Second, say I have a 3/3 creature equipped with Skullclamp (thus, it's
effectively 4/2). Skullclamp gets hit with an Unforge. I expect that
the clamp and creature go to the graveyard simultaneously, and I draw
then two cards. Correct?

The "Equipment _was_ attached" clause is confusing, perhaps indicating
that the equipment is destroyed before the creature takes two damage,
and thus the creature might be thought to survive.

Thanks,
-Trevor.


Skullclamp
{1}
Artifact -- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/-1.
When equipped creature is put into a graveyard, draw two cards.
Equip {1} ({1}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if the
creature leaves play.)

Unforge
{2}{R}
Instant
Destroy target Equipment. If that Equipment was attached to a
creature, Unforge deals 2 damage to that creature.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

kentstr04@yahoo.com (TJB) writes:
> First, when playing in the on-line booster drafts, typically each
> player is given 30 minutes of "priority time" per match.

Well, any online sanctioned tournament has time limits, although the
booster drafts are the only ones up now.

> What are the rules for when your time runs out? Does MTGO let you
> finish the game? Give you five more turns? Or do you just lose for
> not having moved in time?

If you run out of time, you lose the match. Much like chess.

> Second, say I have a 3/3 creature equipped with Skullclamp (thus,
> it's effectively 4/2). Skullclamp gets hit with an Unforge. I expect
> that the clamp and creature go to the graveyard simultaneously, and
> I draw then two cards. Correct?

No. The Unforge is destroyed, and then deals 2 damage to the
creature. Once Unforge finishes resolving and state-based effects are
checked, the creature is 3/3 with two damage on it, so it lives.

> The "Equipment _was_ attached" clause is confusing, perhaps
> indicating that the equipment is destroyed before the creature takes
> two damage, and thus the creature might be thought to survive.

There are two sentences there, and I think the interpretation that
they occur separately is correct. However, it doesn't matter if they
are sequential or simultaneous. If the original creature was 2/2 in
your example (the Skullclamp making it 3/1), the Unforge would destroy
the Skullclamp (sending it to the graveyard) and deal 2 damage to the
creature. After the Unforge resolves and state-based effects are
checked, the game sees a 2/2 with 2 damage and the creature goes to
the graveyard. But, the Skullclamp is already in the graveyard at this
time, so you don't draw the cards.

> Thanks,

You're very welcome! Please post again if this doesn't clear things up
or if you have more questions.

> Skullclamp
> {1}
> Artifact -- Equipment
> Equipped creature gets +1/-1.
> When equipped creature is put into a graveyard, draw two cards.
> Equip {1} ({1}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
> sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if the
> creature leaves play.)
>
> Unforge
> {2}{R}
> Instant
> Destroy target Equipment. If that Equipment was attached to a
> creature, Unforge deals 2 damage to that creature.

--
Peter C.
"What does that mean?"
"It doesn't really mean anything, but it sounds neat."
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 15 Apr 2004 14:56:12 -0700, TJB <kentstr04@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Second, say I have a 3/3 creature equipped with Skullclamp (thus, it's
>effectively 4/2). Skullclamp gets hit with an Unforge. I expect that
>the clamp and creature go to the graveyard simultaneously, and I draw
>then two cards. Correct?

Nope. Unforge destroys the Equipment only. It does NOT destroy the creature
at all. What does it do to it? It -damages- it. A bit later the -rules-
may destroy the creature, if that makes it lethally damaged - but that
won't happen until after the Unforge itself is done resolving and has
gone to the graveyard. So the Skullclamp will be gone before the creature
dies.

>The "Equipment _was_ attached" clause is confusing, perhaps indicating
>that the equipment is destroyed before the creature takes two damage,
>and thus the creature might be thought to survive.

The Equipment is in fact destroyed before the creature takes any damage,
so even if it were worded "Destroy target Equipment. If that Equipment was
attached to a creature, destroy that creature.", the creature would still
get destroyed after the Equipment was gone. To get them destroyed at the
same time you'd have to have it worded something like "Destroy target
Equipment and the creature that Equipment is attached to."...

So no, Skullclamp won't trigger off of Unforge; you want something like
Murderous Spoils instead.

[And because I know it's coming, for that, the Skullclamp's FORMER controller
is the player who draws the cards...]

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, David!
You wrote on 16 Apr 2004 00:56:33 -0400:


DD> So no, Skullclamp won't trigger off of Unforge; you want
DD> something like
DD> Murderous Spoils instead.

DD> [And because I know it's coming, for that, the Skullclamp's
DD> FORMER controller
DD> is the player who draws the cards...]

As per rule 410.10d, correct?

Regards,
Arkady.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney (dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com) wrote:
: On 15 Apr 2004 14:56:12 -0700, TJB <kentstr04@yahoo.com> wrote:
: >Second, say I have a 3/3 creature equipped with Skullclamp (thus, it's
: >effectively 4/2). Skullclamp gets hit with an Unforge. I expect that
: >the clamp and creature go to the graveyard simultaneously, and I draw
: >then two cards. Correct?

: Nope. Unforge destroys the Equipment only. It does NOT destroy the creature
: at all. What does it do to it? It -damages- it. A bit later the -rules-
: may destroy the creature, if that makes it lethally damaged - but that
: won't happen until after the Unforge itself is done resolving and has
: gone to the graveyard. So the Skullclamp will be gone before the creature
: dies.

At what point does the above-example creature return to being 3/3 then?
Unforge does 2 damage; if the creature's still 4/2 that'll kill it
(usually), but if the 'Clamp is gone by the time the rules look at the
creature's damage-toughness situation, wouldn't the creature survive?

: The Equipment is in fact destroyed before the creature takes any damage,

Which *should* mean at that point all the effects of that equipment have
gone away as well...

Just curious...


Keith
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>DD> So no, Skullclamp won't trigger off of Unforge; you want something like
>DD> Murderous Spoils instead.
>
>DD> [And because I know it's coming, for that, the Skullclamp's
> FORMER controller is the player who draws the cards...]
>
>As per rule 410.10d, correct?

Well, yes, but more importantly per 410.2, since the controller of the
Skullclamp here will not change until _after_ the ability actually has
triggered.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Keith Piddington wrote:

> Just curious...

You are correct on both points.

--
Gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Keith Piddington <uj551@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
>David DeLaney (dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com) wrote:
>: On 15 Apr 2004 14:56:12 -0700, TJB <kentstr04@yahoo.com> wrote:
>: >Second, say I have a 3/3 creature equipped with Skullclamp (thus, it's
>: >effectively 4/2). Skullclamp gets hit with an Unforge. I expect that
>: >the clamp and creature go to the graveyard simultaneously, and I draw
>: >then two cards. Correct?
>
>: Nope. Unforge destroys the Equipment only. It does NOT destroy the creature
>: at all. What does it do to it? It -damages- it. A bit later the -rules-
>: may destroy the creature, if that makes it lethally damaged - but that
>: won't happen until after the Unforge itself is done resolving and has
>: gone to the graveyard. So the Skullclamp will be gone before the creature
>: dies.
>
>At what point does the above-example creature return to being 3/3 then?

The moment the Skullclamp gets destroyed; before the damage actually gets
dealt, in this example.

>Unforge does 2 damage; if the creature's still 4/2 that'll kill it
>(usually), but if the 'Clamp is gone by the time the rules look at the
>creature's damage-toughness situation, wouldn't the creature survive?

Yes. I mentally glossed over that while typing - didn't see it - but if
you look, I _did_ say "may destroy the creature" even so.

>: The Equipment is in fact destroyed before the creature takes any damage,
>
>Which *should* mean at that point all the effects of that equipment have
>gone away as well...

Right. The creature reverts to being 3/3 before taking the damage, here.

Not that, for damage, that order _matters_ - the toughness isn't compared
against the damage until, as I noted, state-based effects are checked for,
which is after Unforge is _totally_ done resolving.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

<<
>
>Second, say I have a 3/3 creature equipped with Skullclamp (thus, it's
>effectively 4/2). Skullclamp gets hit with an Unforge. I expect that
>the clamp and creature go to the graveyard simultaneously, and I draw
>then two cards. Correct?
>
>>

No. In fact, the creature survives. The Clamp is in the graveyard before the
creature takes damage, by which time it's a 3/3 again. So it'll stay in play
with 2 damage on it while the Clamp goes to the 'yard...


----
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
--Sigmund Freud
"Sometimes a cake is just a cake."
--Deanna Troi, Star Trek: TNG: "Phantasms"
 
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