Time for improvements! (Maybe?)

Vaszune

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About a year ago, I was able to piece together my first system. The process was fun, despite my lack of knowledge/experience. Due to recent circumstances, I'm now able to give it a "second-go" in a sense.

I was wondering if the build I'm looking to put together will be comparable (or hopefully superior) to my previous setup. Any advice as to more efficient or cost-effective parts would be appreciated!

(Remember: I'm inexperienced, so any issues that arise *compatibility/PSU/Bottlenecking, for example* I may not know exist. Suggestions would be great: I'm always looking to learn!

Previous build:

Case: Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
Monitor: Acer AL2216Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD
Hard drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500gb 7200RPM SATA 3.0gb/s 3.5"
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Mobo
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16ghz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core
Graphic card: Sapphire 100247L Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256bit GDDR PCI express 2.0 x16
PSU: Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V
OS: Vista 64-bit
Memory: Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

New build:
Case: Raidmax Sirius ATX-701WB Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower
Monitor: Samsung ToC T220 Rose-black 22" 2ms GTG Widescreen LCD
Hard drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD5000AADS 500gb SATA 3.0gb/s 3.5"
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Mobo
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 Wolfdale 3.33ghz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core
Graphic card: EVGA 896-P3-1173-AR GeForce GTX 275 FTW Edition 896 MB 448bit DDR3 PCI express 2.0 x16 SLI supported
PSU: Same as above.
OS: Same as above.
Memory: G.Skill 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)

My biggest concerns are: Whether everything will fit on my chosen Mobo (if everything is even compatible), if my chosen PSU is powerful enough, cooling issues, and if the newer graphics build will be a noticeable difference.

Thanks!
 
Hold it ! don't get another system,you have an awesome system already.

Going from E8500 to E8600 is a complete waste since the difference is only 100MHZ.
Going from ATI HD 4870 to a GTX 275 is a waste too since the difference isn't much.
Going from a DDR2 800 RAM to a DDR2 1066 RAM is also a waste of money since the difference isn't noticeable.

You have a solid rig mate :) and going from your rig to the second one u mentioned is a waste of money only.so i say keep your current rig
 
^+1. What I would recommend you do OP is to start to lean to OC. Like Maziar said (Good to see you again man), no point in upgrading. IF and only IF you are a video/photo editor that has multi core aware programs then consider investing in a quad. You may also want to go 8GB (another 2*2GB) if you want and completely turn off/reduce swapfile if doing any RAM intensive tasks, ie Photoshop,vid editing, CAD.

Start here:
GUIDE: Overclocking On EP/P35-DS3L

You can get AT LEAST 3.6-3.8Ghz with a good HSF like the XIGMATEK S1283,TRUE120, CoreContact,etc. It'll cost you about $40-60 for a very good air cooler.
 
why make essentially the same system again?


the second one has some components of marginally higher quality , but you are unlikely to notice the difference in the real world between things like the monitors / cpu's and there will be no performance increase that you couldnt get by making a tiny overclock

Spend your money on something useful IMO
[ which doesnt include the second computer you describe ]
 

Vaszune

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The thing is, I'm getting the newer build so that I can give my GF the previous one. So, I'm not building this one as an upgrade so much as a replacement for the one I'll be giving her.

I know the components were only slightly more efficient, but I wasn't able to find anything substantially effective without burning holes in my wallet.

If anyone has any suggestions as to stronger components, I'd really appreciate the help.
 
Ahh..... in that case, if you have the budget why not go i7? Or if you can wait i5.

i7 build:
Antec 900
650TX
X58-UD3R
4870 512MB
i7 920
3*2GB DDR3 1600 (GSkill)
1TB WD

Total: ~$1k

Btw, how much is it for the 2nd build you had? If it's only $100-150 cheaper, seriously consider going the i7 route. LGA775 is EOL.
 

Vaszune

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I'm going to be honest with you. I didn't understand anything you just said.

The build I was putting together was about $1.5K.

i7? And "EOL"? Remember, I'm pretty inexperienced... that includes the spiffy lingo you're using, haha!
 
^Well long story short: LGA 775 is reaching End of Life (aka EOL) meaning NO new CPUs/updates will be made to the LGA775 platform so investing in an i7 is more future proof and better (bang for buck) for your money (the $1500 you plan to invest). If your budget came to $1.5k with the LCD I highly recommend you going the i7 route. The build I put together came to $995 with out shipping. So you still have $500 to play with in the i7 build.

Core i7 "Nehalem" is/are the new Intel CPUs. It's a new CPU architecture which required DDR3/new socket/chipset. The design has new things such Integrated Memory Controller like AMD, Hyper threading like in P4, more L2/L3,etc that are/were not available for the Core 2 Duo/Quads

For more info on design,etc: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel

Core i7 Benchmarks: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3574&p=4/showdoc.aspx?i=3448
 
I still don't recommend u changing your rig,since u have a solid rig,u can OC your E8500 if u want.
Yes Core i7 is faster but when you have such a rig like that i don't recommend u getting an i7 "NOW" because i think an E8500 is plenty fast for now and has a great OC potential,get a new cooler as "Shadow" said and u will be fine for OC'ng :)

To Shadow:thanks :) i was a little busy with studying but now i'm back :)
 

Vaszune

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The only i7's that I'm finding are either lower clock speeds than my current CPU or exceed $500.

I'm new to this: Would the 2.66ghz i7 I'm looking at perform more efficiently than my 3.16ghz E8500?

And I was really looking for a card that was more effective than my 4870. It runs really hot, so I have the fan running at all times. Is there anything I can buy that would perform as well (or preferably better) that would run cooler?
 
^P In most cases yes, i7 920> E8600. HOWEVER, if you have speed sensitive (mainly old games, even in those cases, the i7 is still very good and won't bottle neck) instead of core sensitive (aka multithreaded) software (ie, GTAIV is heavily core dependent due to poor porting,etc so expect more games like GTAIV to be out in the future), then no.

Again, you can OC the i7 920 to 3.6Ghz easily with a good cooler. At even 2.8Ghz, the i7 will be better.

Any ways, I still recommend going i7 esp. if you want to future proof this build for at least 1-2 years.
 

Vaszune

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I'm not sure how the i7 varies from my E8500.
Would it fit the Mobo I picked out for my new build? If so, I might buy the E8500 again for now and invest in the i7 in the near future. Or would I need a new mobo to accommodate the i7?

I need the new build relatively soon, so I've gotta come up with something.
 

sighQ2

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Keep your current system. Buy a new AMD system for your GF. Better still give her the EOL intel system = and keep this AMD RIG for yourself - cos it's simply a smarter choice and will run circles around the old one - and it's what you should have bought in the first place - and, yes, I am an AMD enthusiast for good reasons. :)
Note that if you had bought an AMD system a year ago, you could be doing a simple upgrade path - of simply adding a new CPU = done. No socalled "eol" issues here, thanx very little.

For a lower price, and better performance.

motherboard
= GA-MA790XT-UD4P (socket AM3 MOBO)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128378 = $114

cpu
= Phenom II 720BE (socket AM3 cpu) (Triple core)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649 = $119
=or=
Phenom II 550 BE (socket AM3 cpu) (Dual core)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103680 = $114

ram
= DDR3 /1333 (2x2 gigs = 4 gigs total.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148262 = $57


The rest - as you listed above. will be just fine!!!!
You can newegg these items for price yourself.

= Want more? = most people don't need a quad :)

Quad core = 955 cpu (there are other quads also such as 925 or 810)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103674 = $245

FAST RAM /made for amd/ OCZ. /low latency.
OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK <<< part number.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227447&Tpk=OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK = $88


RE Your video card issues. The fan speed is adjustable in the more recent driver software. You can slow it down slightly and still maintain a reasonable temperature. But vidcards run hot - they are known and designed that way. Cpu's run cooler. nvidias run hot also. Video cards run hot - period.
The ati radeons support DIRECT X 10.1. The nvidias don't.
The 4870 is a very good card. If your girl friend does not require screaming fast performance, you could keep the 4870 and get her a 4830 which uses less power, still has the 256-bit interface like the 4870 (as opposed to a lesser 128-bit interface) and still provides very good game performance, as well as the usual list of HD multimedia features, like the 4870.
Another idea is to increase air flow through the case using an additional fan at front or rear of case.
= radeon 4830 /sapphire.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102822 = $99

And with an AMD system you don't support antitrust monopoly -
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/business/global/14compete.html
 

Helloworld_98

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don't look at clock speed, look at IPC x Clock Per Second (Hz). e.g for the i7, 4.5 instructions x 2,666,000,000 clocks = ~ 12 million.

for instance a 2.66GHz i7 will do just as many instructions per second as a 3.2GHz amd phenom II. and then there's still turbo mode to play with on the i7.
 

Wolfshadw

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Moderator


Since no one else replied to this question:

The I7 CPUs use a new socket LGA1366 whereas the E8500 uses the EOL socket LGA775. The two are not compatible. If you bought the E8500 now and the I7 later, then yes. You would need to purchase a new motherboard (and RAM) for the new CPU.

-Wolf sends
 

Vaszune

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That being the case, anyone have any suggestions as to a mobo that would accommodate the i7 that would also allow space for an ATI Radeon 4870?

If I go with the i7 build, I wanna ensure that I don't have any overlapping or space issues with the new mobo and my card.
 

tecmo34

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Moderator


Vaszune.... Shadow703793 listed pretty much all of the parts you need....


Shadow703739..... Do I get any profit from your campaign since you linked to my original thread... LOL!!! :kaola: Just Joking... :D I still have to update my signature to show my support!!
 

Vaszune

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Seeing a lot of negative feedback (for the EX58-UD3R) on the right angled SATA adapters, and how frustrating it is to work around a card like a 4870 because the length makes it hard to "plugin/organize SATA cables".

Is there a comparable mobo I should be looking at, or are these superficial problems that really won't cause any real inconveniences?
 

Vaszune

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Ok, I think I've finally got a decent understanding in regards to what this build will look like. However, as far as RAM goes, I'm seeing a wide range of prices for 3x2Gs.

What should I be looking for so I might purchase the right RAM for a gaming-oriented rig?