Tom should have a New reveiw

[rcf84]

Well i think tom should get the radeon 32mb ddr VS. Geforce 2gts 32mb. I want to see the new ATi drivers kick Nvidia A$$ all over the place. Hardocp.com should me that.

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!

 

[Guest]

Brother I'm also trying to spread the gospel.
http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/radeon
<$90
I say put it up against the 64meg GTS since some STILL haven't figured out that 64meg is unessisary.

 

[mpjesse]

Ummm... I just read that review and there is like TWO benchmarks that the Radeon actual performs a LITTLE better than the GF2 GTS. Also, another flaw: he was using 6.18 detonator drivers- which ARE OLD!!! 6.31 are the newest official drivers, but nVidia has 6.50 drivers floating around. Unfair advantage. The Radeon is not kicking the GTS's butt all over the place. Now, I will not argue that the Radeon has the best price/performance ratio. =)

-MP Jesse

 

[phsstpok]

just an FYI

The 6.50 Detonator are now nVidia's official drivers.

Betas run up to 7.17, that I have seen. I thought I had heard a rumor of 8.xx betas out there but can't find them.

6.50 Detonators also seem to be the fastest. 6.72 get Microsoft's WQHL compatibility nod.

Here are the most betas (50+ if you count Win2K and NT4 versions) I have seen in 1 place.

http://www.gamers-ammo.com/nVidialist.html

 

[Grizely1]

hasn't he already done about 5000 articles with ati vs. nvidia?

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Satan Clara...... 'Nuff said.

 

[mpjesse]

Thanx... haven't checked out the nVidia site lately =)

-MP Jesse

 

[noko]

There are many reveiws out there so this may be a pretty boring thing for Tom to do. Besides the GeForce cards really do kick ass on the Radeon in W2k and Linux for FPS. Even the GeForce MX does better here except maybe against the Radeon 64 VIVO Retail. 2d quality issues would be very enlightening comparing all choices like Matrox, VooDoo, Radeon, GeForce line (maybe comparing the different manufacturers). Clarifying advantages and disadvangtes of each card would probably help those not sure which to purchase. This review could prime everybody for the upcoming giant <b><font color=red>NV-20</font color=red></b> debut and set the standard for comparison. How will all these cards compare to the NV-20? Some issues that Tom could bring to light could be as follows:

-Difference in the different versions of the Radeon (VE, LE, 32mb OEM/Retail, 64mb OEM/Retail, AIW, Radeon Mobility). Alot of confusion here. Like in the LE, it is clocked at 148mhz, hyperZ is turned off by default, no fan on radeon heatsink but hyperZ is easily turned on by registry entry or by tweakers, speed can be easiliy overclock to better than other Radeons when fan is added since heat sink is actually larger then OEMs/Retail boards. Overclocking and configuring hyperZ accomplish by using PowerStrip3.0. <font color=blue>Update, LE Radeon not made my ATI, read below.</font color=blue>
-Different GeForce MX versions with 64bit/128bit memory, significance of 64bit DDR memory compare to 128bit SDRAM memory on performance and price.
-Twinview on MX compared to Matrox dualhead and Radeon VE HydraVision™ option (If available). Good to know for those Intel 850 chipset owners.
-Overclocking ability and potential of all boards and what programs to use.
-Performance of cards using different operating systems. Improving performance in a different operating system. Like for the Radeon a 0-30% performance can be gained in W2k by raising the priority of the game, program or benchmark by using the Task Manager in Windows 2000. Even easier by using this nifty program called the <b>Launcher</b> from: <A HREF="http://www.gameroffice.com" target="_new">http://www.gameroffice.com</A>
This program increased my 3dMark2000 score by 25% in W2K performace, 85% of winme vice 60% I had before.
-Registry tweaks that affect performance of cards. Note PowerStrip3.0 build 114 has many for the Radeon and other cards.
-What is the significance of the 10bit DAC on the Radeon to the 8bit DAC on all other video cards. This can be activated by PowerStrip 3.0 build 114. Hint HDTV.
-DVI potential for all cards and there limitations (who has it and who doesn't).
-Activating HDTV resolutions on video cards and converting RGB to YPvPr (The Key Digital VTC1 transcoder takes a VGA DB15 connecter from the Radeon and outputs in three RCA cable component to 3 outputs(YPbPr) once again HDTV resolutions can be set using PowerStrip3.0 114). Also explain why the Geforce II MX isn't able to do this but the Geforce II GTS cards can (deals with interlace ability of the chipsets).
<font color=blue><i>HDTV hookup to RGB is updated by my post below.</i></font color=blue>
-DVD decoding ability and quality features built in between the cards.
-Overdraw capability, Directx8 hardware features and the significance for future games.

Obviously only someone like Tom could even approach such a hefty review with accurate testing and benchmarks. His integrity in testing is unquestionably accurate and exposes weaknesses and strengths better than anyone else. The work to do some of the above comparisons is almost beyond imagination. Just a comprehensive Radeon review could be a two part review. I don't think anyone wants just another simple who beats who review but more like the heavy stuff, hidden features and abilities, things we just didn't know about.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/13/01 03:23 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

Didn't realize the nvidia drivers were old, I didn't bother checking because it seems wierd to have new drivers for one product and old ones for the other. However, the detonator 3 drivers (6.12) are the ones that gave nvidia the massive boost. If you recall initially ATI was faster then detonator 3 came out and added ~20%. I don't know how much the performance has increased since 6.12 but I'd postulate not more than a few FPS. Usually more "mature" drivers flex their muscle at lower res so I don't imagine a huge gain. Let's say it's 2 FPS faster than the radeon in 32-bit with the 6.50, does it diminish the new ati drivers? At worst I'd argue the performance is the same. The price is nearly 1/2! Has anyone found any truely fair comparisons so we can be 100% sure instead of 95%? Regarding the use of only 2 benchmarks, those are 2 of the most common. I was surprised that the 3dmark scores were higher in 800x600. Q3 is the poor benchmark for the radeon and it still beats it. Granted it lost in the torcher test, which is weird based on radeon's strengths.

Accepting of the review flaws and being somewhat reasonable I think it shows the radeon as the first and only graphics card any gamer should buy. (unless you like spending an extra $200 for 10% performance...and there are people who do)

 

[mpjesse]

I don't disagree that the Radeon is a great price/performance card. But, the difference in speed between the 6.18 drivers and 6.50 IS noticable and more than 2 FPS. I score over 20 percent better with the 6.5 drivers compared to the 6.18 on a GeForce 2 MX. Anyways, I would say that it should be the first card of choice for the BUDGET gamer- not the average gamer. =)

-MP Jesse

 

[noko]

Looks like the Radeon RGB output can be configured directly for YPbPr output. Meaning if you have the correct cable you can directly hook up your Radeon to your HDTV, meaning a conversion box is not needed. Here is Entech PowerStrip 3.0 Build 114 info.

<b>PowerStrip 3.0 Build 114 for the Radeon</b> (February 6)
Just a handful of changes specifically for Radeon users.
(1) Proper overlay scaling for interlaced resolutions should now work for windowed and full-screen video.
(2) A "Refresh timing" hotkey function has been added to facilitate overlay scaling (no playback pausing and blanking).

On the "Color Profiles > Configure" page, you will now find a couple of new items listed under "Adapter options":

(3) "Use 10 bit palette DAC" switches the color look-up table from 8 bit (default) to 10 bit - the Radeon being the first mainstream chipset to support this.
<font color=red><b>(4) "Enable YPbPr direct output" enables the Radeon's component video out capabilities if you have the requisite 15-pin VGA-to-RCA cable. I have no idea if the latter switch works, but it certainly does brighten things up.</font color=red></b>

Link:
<A HREF="http://www.entechtaiwan.com/index2.htm" target="_new">http://www.entechtaiwan.com/index2.htm</A>

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/12/01 04:13 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[tfbww]

Even a few FPS would turn the tide against the Radeon in pure performance. Let's face it, the most the Radeon bested the GTS was by 5.8 FPS (~11%). It won't take a lot for that to change.

 

[rcf84]

Well i see that ATi has more drivers coming out very soon. i see R&D must be on to some thing

First person to get a topic banned. ABIT BP6 Lives FOREVER!!!

 

[LordKaos]

I think you wouldn´t , because Nvidia also has some new drivers out!

Bummer!!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone

 

[noko]

Nvidia is constantly updating (improving) there drivers. So do we want Tom to do an exhaustive set of benchmarks for a few FPS? What is the point? Besides wouldn't the GeForce Ultra best the Radeon on virtually any benchmark by a landslide besides Villiagemark? There are other factors to take into consideration besides who king of the hill in FPS.

 

[LordKaos]

Well, i´m not the one who´s asked for a new review!
I know for a fact that the GeForce 2 is the fastest and is a very good graphic card!
It´s you , the Radeon dudes that need the re-assurance that your Ati graphic card is not crap! :-D

So don´t speak to me like i´m the one asking for a review everytime some new drivers are published!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone

 

[LordKaos]

I remember that it was you who posted a loooooooong message (Just like hobbit´s! :-D) with some good points for a new
reviews!
Shouldn´t you back up your posts a little bit?

P.SI should post another message just to tell you this! :-D )
Thanks for helping me get my 800th post! Eh eh!


Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone

 

[phsstpok]

That's cool! What's the maximum resolution of the Radeon/HDTV combination?

On the otherhand, if I'm buying a budget Radeon card I probably can't afford HDTV.

 

[noko]

Max resolution is 1920x1080i(HDTV). This will make one hell of a game machine besides playing DVD's. A 60" HDTV and playing quakeIII or quakeIV would be pretty impressive on a 5.1 sound system. Also maybe having a infrared keyboard and mouse browsing the internet in your leather recliner would be cool too. Here are all the custom HDTV resolutions that PowerStrip3.0 114 has built in. Note adding more custom settings is simple in PS3.0.

1280x720p(HDTV)
1920x540p(HDTV)
1584x540p(HDTV)
960x540p(HDTV)
1480x500p(HDTV)
920x500p(HDTV)
904x500p(HDTV)
1424x480p(HDTV)
848x480p(HDTV)
720x480p(HDTV)
1920x1080i(HDTV)
1024x768i(HDTV)
800x600i(HDTV)

 

[Grizely1]

TV sucks. only 240x380 or whatever.

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Satan Clara...... 'Nuff said.

 

[noko]

Actually most people want the facts, the truth and the whole story. Concentrating on one aspect of a video card skews the outcome. If 2d is concentrated on (which probably what most people spend time on) then Matrox is King. If FPS in games, GeForce Ultra would be King. If DVD quality, Radeon is King. For one, Matrox with its superior 2d quality is currently left out to dry when for most people it may be the best buy for what they do. Give the facts, let the person decide on what they need, obtain from truthful accurate information. Also I want your next card to be much better than your previous card, what better feedback can anyone give to a company then by exposing there weaknesses like poor 2d or 3d rendering quality so that they can improve on it. Does this answer your question or comment?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 02/13/01 05:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[phsstpok]

Yes, "TV Sucks" but HDTV is as good as a high-end monitor.

By the way current generation TV's can do pretty close to 800x600 with S-Video.

 

[phsstpok]

Impressive! It would be downright scary! What would neighbors think about Quake xx at full tilt?

 

[tfbww]

<drool> gaaaaahhhhhhh......

Mmmmmm.... Lifesize Counterstrike...

Oh, I'd really, REALLY like that. Now if only an HDTV didn't cost the same as a small car.

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mmmmm... open faced club sand wedge...

 

[Grizely1]

lifesized battlezone...... i would pay 10k for that. (seriuosly).

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Satan Clara...... 'Nuff said.

 

[Guest]

Rumour has it that the nv20 will be out shortly. Tom usually hits these things very punctually. We all know how thorough he is, so we can expect many additional and related issues addressed then.

Tom Mc

Even a fool, when he remains silent, appears wise.