Torn between two systems!

[Sir Arun]

Alright guys, here are the two finalists I have narrowed my buying list down to. I'm torn between which of them I would want to buy. I'm planning to do a lot of gaming (like Crysis) at high resolutions (1920 x 1200) with my new PC, and am not much of a graphical/video editor. Please tell me which one to purchase:

Tower: NZXT Crafted Series Apollo, black

Power Supply Unit: 850 Watt THERMALTAKE ToughPower SLI-Ready

Processor: INTEL Core 2 Quad 9650/3.00 GHz, LGA775 12 MB Cache, FSB 1333

Cooling: ZALMAN CNPS-9700 AT

Motherboard: Asus P5QL PRO FSB1600 Intel P43

RAM: 4096MB DDR2-RAM, PC2-800 MHz, CL4 OCZ Titanium (64-Bit OS required)

Graphic Card: GeForce GTX295, 1792MB DDR3 896-Bit Dual DVI HDMI HDCP

Hard Drive: 1 TB SAMSUNG SpinPoint F1 7200rpm SATA 32MB Cache

Disc Drive (read + write): LG GH-22LS, LightScribe SATA DVD-writer, black, SecurDisc

Soundcard: Onboard Sound (5.1)

Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit

Price: 1465 €, 24 months guarantee



and the other finalist is:



Tower: Coolermaster Storm Sniper Tower

Power Supply Unit: 800 Watt HIPER

Processor: INTEL Core i7-920 4x 2.66 GHz overclocked to 4x3.66 GHz

Cooling: Asetek internal watercooling

Motherboard: not specified (I'm guessing one that supports i7 technology)

RAM: 4096MB DDR3 Dual Channel 1600 MHz (PC3-12800) (64-Bit OS required)

Graphic Card: GeForce GTX295, 1792MB PCI-E

Hard Drive: 1000 GB 7200rpm SATA 16MB Cache

Disc Drive (read + write): 20x DVD+-RW Double Layer LightScribe writer

Soundcard: Onboard Sound (5.1)

Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit

Price: 1638.87 €, 6 months guarantee only



So which one to choose? For 172 Euros more, I get an overclocked i7 processor at 3.6GHz compared to a stock clock speed Q9650; DDR3 RAM instead of DDR2 and water cooling instead of air, but I prefer the case of the first one and longer warranty. I've also heard that games are very GPU intensive, so a better cpu or DDR3 RAm doesn't make much of a difference when it comes to FPS gain. Any help would be appreciated!

Cheers

 

[skora]

There's faults with both of them that are hard to overlook. But if you have the money and are just looking for someone to build your computer for you, you have to take what they offer I guess. Or can you choose options?

First setup:
The Q9550 is 2.83ghz but is 30% cheaper.
There are better coolers for the money than the Zalman9700
A P43 is fine for not overclocking, but seems like a budget part compared to the rest of the build.
The DDR2-800 also seems unbalanced for the CPU and GPU. Its cost effective, but is that what you're going for?

The second option:
I7 is nice and warranty OC is good
If the Ram is just dual channel, seems like another cost cutting corner that should never be made. Triple channel will perform much better which will also mean an upgrade on the mobo.
GPU is a heavy hitter. Are they water cooling it also? For an extra cost, Evga makes one with the water cooler built in.

My impression is the builder of these systems are cutting vital corners and I question their expertise in component selection.

 

[Sir Arun]

Well the first one I put together in a PC "configurator". And in this configurator, the Q9550 is only 30 euros cheaper than the Q9650, so I went with the latter one for future-proofing.

As for the coolers, the other options I have are:

ZALMAN CNPS 9900 LED (61€)

Scythe Mugen (35€)
Scythe Mugen 2 (44€)

COOLERMASTER Hyper TX2 (24€)
COOLERMASTER Vortex 752 (26€)
COOLERMASTER Hyper 212 (34€)

THERMALTAKE Sonic Tower, Rev.2 (29€)
THERMALTAKE Spin Q (60€)
THERMALTAKE Ruby Orb (27€)

ASUS Silent Knight II (42€)


Regarding the motherboard, the other options I have are:

And the reason I chose DDR2 800 over DDR2 1066 is because the DDR2 800 ones are CL4 and the 1066 ones are CL5 and I heard that CL4 is faster than CL5. But if there is a greater difference gained in the extra 1066 MHz, then I will swap.

And if I want to purchase 1066 MHz DDR2 sticks, should I go for OCZ Gold, OCZ Reaper XPC or OCZ Platinum? (the latter two are costlier)



As for the second option:

I cannot configure this one much. I don't think think the GPU is water cooled, but if what you are saying is right (that non EVGA GTX295s are all air cooled) then it shouldn't be much of a problem, I think.

Cheers

 

[Helloworld_98]

neither, build one yourself and you'll see that you'll an overall better quality build with the i7 processor and the correct ram along with quality parts for 150 euro's less than Q9650 build you listed.

 

[Sir Arun]

I'm afraid I'm a complete newbie when it comes to building my own PC...there's just too much risk that I may screw things up and I'm a tad scared when it comes to using that special adhesive to stick the fan/heatsink on the CPU.

Either way, I'm guessing one will need at least 30 days of solid research before having enough knowledge to build a PC and I can't wait that long

Right now I'm thinking with going for option 1, as games aren't very CPU intensive and I'm sure the Quad core will last for another 2 years before the i7 becomes the norm.

 

[skora]

The term future proof when choosing the Q9650 over the Q9550 doesn't exist. Both will last the same and if you need a little more speed, both are very overclockable. That gets back to the piont of the P43 not being the strongest choice.

But the bigger issue seems the build process itself. If you have another computer, like a laptop that can be running next to you while you do the build, might take a day to stumble through guides while you do it, but its not that difficult. The plugs only work where they are suppose to so you won't be plugging power into a place you shouldn't. The application of the thermal interface material is easy too. When I'm on my home computer, I have a guide bookmarked I can send your way for that too. But it's your computer and your money and your comfort level.

If you don't want to venture your own build, can we get the link to the configuator you used? If we use the site you do, makes it so we are all talking on the same terms. Also, how long do you want to get out of the system and do you want upgrade options along the way?

 

[Sir Arun]

Thanks for your willingness to help. Yep, I'm not a native English speaker Here are the links:

First build: http://www.aki-tech.at/product_info.php?info=p213_INTEL-GAMER-PC-Konfigurator.html


Second rig:

http://www.xmx-shop.de/shop/product...v=off&osCsid=b013fcefa3eea68ac61ce4050cf9a135


From the list of other motherboards and fans I have posted in my previous posts, which ones would your recommend for my first rig?

 

[skora]

You're english is better than mine and I live stateside.

I configured a rig on the first site. I'm suprised they don't have an option for dual video cards, but they don't. For the price you're spending, I'd say go with an i7 system, but the one on the other site just doesn't cut it for me.

What I would change from your build are these items:
Q9550
Sythe Mugen 2
4 gigs of ram. The 1066 CL-5 is basically overclocked 800 CL-4. I'd still probably go for the 1066 though.
If you're going with the GTX 295, you'll NEED a mobo with pcie 2.0 x16. The G31 and even some of the P43 boards only have pcie 1.1 x16. That will restrict that GPU. As long as it has a pcie 2.0 x16 slot , any Asus or Gigabyte board will be fine for minor OC and an nvidia card. If you would rather get a second ATI card and crossfire them, Get at least the Asus P5Q-E or P5Q Deluxe. For the gigabyte, you'd have step up to the X48 or extreme and might not be worth it there. But to crossfire, you would be installing the second card and placing the cable to connect the two cards together and a power cord into the second card. If you do 2x 4870s, you'll save 150 euro over the 295. Check some reviews to see if thats worth it to you. But crossfired 4870 1gb cards should handle 19x12 monitor just fine.

There's some research for you to do, but for the same price, you can get a much better balanced system.

 

[Helloworld_98]

building a PC isn't hard, providing you're not legally blind.

all there is to it is lining up pins and remembering to release static which you can do by just touching the case, however if you aren't building on a wooden floor it is advisable to buy an antistatic mat to build the PC on and also an antistatic wrist band.

 

[sighQ2]

I would not buy either of these. Neither are best gaming solution. Both are waste of money.

The first one uses socket 775 mobo/cpu = these parts are not only overpriced, but they are also EOL = end of life. Someone made a comment about futureproof - bad joke - they have no future except dead end, no upgrade path, soon not available - and still overpriced. (obscene).

The second one - it amazes me how people that claim to know little of nothing about pooters, reach for i7 quad core cpu's - largely because they see what the marketing spin says - the spin is about fastest - that's based on a $1000 i7 975 - the people think the i7-920 is the same thing - they have no clue about the TDP or power consumption grossly being excessive - but they know the spin about "you need lots of airflow". The 130w tdp plus the power to the "uncore" means approx 190w tdp - buy a lot of fans - this also adds to the electricity bill - (hilarious).

Assuming money MIGHT BE a concern - maybe it isn't - a savvy consumer should look into the high end AMD systems that utilize the "AMD Platform" approach. There is "equal or better performance" available thru AMD - for approx 20-30% less money - it's outrageous. But the idiot public has been brainwashed that spintel is all that's available - they don't even know what AMD stands for. Also, very amusing, is that we are talking EUROS here - and the EU busted spintel for gross antitrust violations, and abuse of monopoly position, and levied the biggest fine in history against spintel. You can easily google this. No need to believe me. Similar antitrust cases happened in Japan and Korea, and have yet to happen in the USA in 2010.

= this is how spintel has 80% marketshare, despite the fact that the athlon cpu's dominated through early 2000's until 2006 - now they are back with Phenom II and Athlon II - the P4 dominated thru spin, and antitrust activity - google the EU case - don't believe me - look it up.

Because of all that, it's a small miracle that AMD is still in business. It's a big miracle that AMD makes great performance systems based on their Platform - cpu, chipset, videocard - for considerably less money than spintel systems.

It's amazing that people who act like they are knowledgeable about pc's, can simply turn a blind eye to all this overwhelming true evidence and facts - and actually recommend spintel systems. And that this is done in the name of "helping" someone - is gross ignorance and abuse. If that is not true, then these same "helpers" are actually employed to work this website, and push spintel junk, and perpetuate the spin.

To the original poster OP - if you know nothing about pc's - how can you ignore AMD which is a company based in collaboration with it's partners and customers, and blatantly offers more bang for the buck.

Futureproof? Current socket AM3 SYSTEMS - socket AM3 is still rolling out, being released - and this will continue through 2010. What do think spintel has in mind for your future; more screws?

Overclocking? Perhaps you missed the demos of Phenom II cpu's breaking 7Ghz. And current Ph II 955 Black Edition's are pushing 4Ghz on air - and similar with 720BE Triplecore, and 550BE Dualcore.

Gaming? Historically, AMD is the way to go for gaming. A QUAD is USELESS in gaming - shocking isn't it? Maybe later (2012+). Not yet. You need a dual core or a triple core. And i7 is a Low Resolution winner - not at high resolution - haha, o yeh you can pay big bucks to nvidia to hide that - but the AMD/ATI Platform will do better at Higher Resolutions - (surprised?).

Ultimately this is because spintel does not have video/grafx - altho most pc's in the world have lame spintel onboard - and that's the source of the problem = their video is cpu-driven - haha - what does that tell you? AMD/ATI have a proper approach to grafx (GPU) - and that's why they win at high resolution gaming - nobody games at low rez anymore - but the noobs don't know, and the helpers don't either, or else they are liars. (WHICH IS IT?)

So go ahead - spend your money as you wish - support the great monopoly with it's misleading "inside" advertising, and the fanboys, and the paid spinner employees at various sites. You are being HOSED - and if that is ok, then ignore me.

20 to 30 per cent cheaper for equal or better performance in gaming, and other areas. Do your own research - there is no need to believe me - you can easily prove this to yourself.


= the challenge = USE A CONFIGURATOR TO MAX OUT an AMD SYS - AND THEN COME HERE AND ASK FOR APPROVAL. (and note the price)


...or you don't want to know.

sigh
.

(I am not employed by amd, ati or any tek company - just an AMD enthusiast who knows too much - and I am tired of seeing people waste their money).

 

[Sir Arun]

Alright thanks for the info, but there is no need to use that patronizing, almost arrogant tone. If I had years of hardware experience and was an intel supporter, you might roll out the heavy artillery to defend AMD that way.

But for a newb requiring advice I think it's a tad too heavy. Ether way, I'll go with Intel because I the company is more familiar to me, my old PC was also Intel and ultimately it comes down to preferences.

You're right about the fact that most games of today don't fully make use of all four cores, so the i7 seems to be a waste at the moment, but I wonder whether C2Q will be able to also last in the future or whether the i7 is more future-proof.

I think I'll stick to the first system and will replace the motherboard with an ASUS P5Q SE because that one has a 2.0 PCI-Express slot: http://reviews.cnet.com/motherboards/asus-p5q-se-motherboard/4505-3049_7-33232715.html

One more question though: Is an 850W PSU really necessary or will 750W suffice?

Cheers

 

[Sir Arun]

Correction: The ASUS P5QL Pro P43 also does have a 2.0 PCI-Expres 64 slot, so what's the difference between that and the ASUS P5Q SE? I think the former will do fine enough with a GTX295, since I do not consider SLI anyway.

 

[sighQ2]

sorry to offend "sir arun"

EOL tek will not give futureproof.

Someone more familiar with future of i7, socket, etc. might answer that concern.

out

sigh
.

 

[Sir Arun]

sorry to offend "sir arun"

EOL tek will not give futureproof.

No problem, mate.

When I was talking about future-proofing I wasn't directly referring to upgrading the PC in regards to the motherboard (I know that won't be possible once the new DDR3 motherboards become the norm).

What I was rather saying is that hopefully I can play games with my system for at least the next 3 years....I believe the GTX295 is strong enough to handle that because Crysis is at the moment the ONLY game that falls as low as 30FPS at resolutions of 1920 x 1200 with everything maxed out except AA and AF. But of course once DX11 comes out I hope I can play future games that are built on DX11 with DX10 without too much difference, because as far as I know the GTX205 is not DX11 compatible.

And I'm guessing C2Q should also last for a couple of years until games start to really use the 4 cores and more.

 

[skora]

Looks like the main difference between the P43 and P45 is binning. They are meant to be the same chip, but the second PCIe 2.0 channel may not work so they shut it off. Being a little lower quality, they dont overclock as well. But if you're not going to OC much or at all and using an nVidia card, a P43 will be fine as you can't SLI on the intel chipsets.
http://www.dvhardware.net/article25361.html
That may be an arguement for going with an i7 system since the X58 can, but that almost starts the whole process over again.

A 750 will be enough. The GTX 295 needs 680w with at least 46a on the 12v rails combined. The thermaltake fits the bill.

There is no futureproofing this system. Once the CPU can no longer serve you, you will have to build a whole new platform. And if at that time you choose AMD, sighQ2 might shed a little tear of joy. So if you want futureproofing and SLI, then reconsider the i7 920, whether a new build, or the one listed above.

 

[skora]

No problem, mate.

When I was talking about future-proofing I wasn't directly referring to upgrading the PC in regards to the motherboard (I know that won't be possible once the new DDR3 motherboards become the norm).

What I was rather saying is that hopefully I can play games with my system for at least the next 3 years....I believe the GTX295 is strong enough to handle that because Crysis is at the moment the ONLY game that falls as low as 30FPS at resolutions of 1920 x 1200 with everything maxed out except AA and AF. But of course once DX11 comes out I hope I can play future games that are built on DX11 with DX10 without too much difference, because as far as I know the GTX205 is not DX11 compatible.

And I'm guessing C2Q should also last for a couple of years until games start to really use the 4 cores and more.

You're CPU and ram will outlast the GPU in my un-professional opinion. To be realistic and price conscicous, I would go with a lower GPU now and then plan to replace it in 1.5 years when DX11 cards come out.