Tri-Elementalist Question

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Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

I have recently read an FAQ posted on this news group concerning the
Marrowalk bug, that stated:

"...and is the only viable way to build a successful multiplayer hell
capable tri-elementalist,..."

Is this the case? I have just completed the normal difficulty level with my
first Sorc, created by following (sort of) the Tri-Elementalist build-sheet
on www.diabloii.com. Have I wasted the time and energy? Are there just not
enough skill points to go around? My goal is to be able to MF in Hell but I
want to finish the game with her first. The build would utilize Nova from
the lightening tree, hydra from the fire tree, and frozen orb from the cold
tree and I don't own a pair of Marrowwalks and wouldn't care to take
advantage of a bug even if I did. Any input would be appreciated.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Of course I meant diabloii.net instead of .com


---------------------------snip--------------------------------------------
"Clam Ranger" <Clam_Ranger@Clamdorosa.net> wrote in message
news:10tlshf6ndv5b78@corp.supernews.com...
> Is this the case? I have just completed the normal difficulty level with
> my first Sorc, created by following (sort of) the Tri-Elementalist
> build-sheet on www.diabloii.com.
---------------------------------snip--------------------------------------
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Clam Ranger wrote:

> I have recently read an FAQ posted on this news group concerning the
> Marrowalk bug, that stated:
>
> "...and is the only viable way to build a successful multiplayer hell
> capable tri-elementalist,..."
>
> Is this the case? I have just completed the normal difficulty level with my
> first Sorc, created by following (sort of) the Tri-Elementalist build-sheet
> on www.diabloii.com. Have I wasted the time and energy? Are there just not
> enough skill points to go around? My goal is to be able to MF in Hell but I
> want to finish the game with her first. The build would utilize Nova from
> the lightening tree, hydra from the fire tree, and frozen orb from the cold
> tree and I don't own a pair of Marrowwalks and wouldn't care to take
> advantage of a bug even if I did. Any input would be appreciated.
>
>

I more or less remember something on this subject.

Oh, *blush* maybe because I once wrote that!


"Either a bug, a glitch or a feature, charges in items of skills you
don't possess at all give you a synergy level equivalent to the level of
the charges...

To be more precise, Marrowwalk has charges of level 33 bone prison. So
if a necromancer doesnt put a single point into the bone prison skills,
he gets 33 levels of synergy to each of bone armour, bone spirit, bone
spear, bone wall and teeth while wearing Marrowwalk boots. Kinda buggy
in this case, because it's fairly overpowered, even if you cant spam any
bone prison.

Another item like this is Moonfall, with level 11 meteor charges. Give
it to a fireball sorceress who hasn't invested any point in meteor, and
she gets 11 levels of synergy for free. (glitch in this case, because it
allows a sorceress more versatility and is the only viable way to build
a successful multiplayer hell capable tri-elementalist, but she'll never
be more powerful than a pure FB sorc)"


Ok, now that some time has passed, I can say that I was probably dead
wrong with my "the only viable way to build a successful multiplayer
hell capable tri-elementalist". The build you describe is equally
viable, if not more, because it can basically take advantage of all the
great sorceress items (tal rasha's set, oculus, memory staff, eldritch
orbs, mang song's this or lazarus' that 😛), whereas the "moonfall-using
tri-elementalist takes advantage of a bug which gives 11 free synergies
in meteor.

Your build isn't wrecked, and you haven't wasted time. You're doing
perfectly well following one of the most enthusiasmic and challenging
build in this game. Keep up the good work, and sorry for the confusion!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41db1989$0$29778
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Edit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A lot of useful info about what
<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Clam Ranger wrote:
>
>> I have recently read an FAQ posted on this news group concerning the
>> Marrowalk bug, that stated:
>>
>> "...and is the only viable way to build a successful multiplayer hell
>> capable tri-elementalist,..."
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Your build isn't wrecked, and you haven't wasted time. You're doing
> perfectly well following one of the most enthusiasmic and challenging
> build in this game. Keep up the good work, and sorry for the confusion!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To which Clam Ranger Replied...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Whew! thanks. I was about to really be annoyed at someone (myself likely
for not getting more info
on the Sorc build before I started). So far she is moving pretty good. I
am at Clvl 29 and just about to get the really good stuff. The only thing I
have put points into so far beyond prereqs is Nova (lvl 10) and Warmth (lvl
6). Every thing else is still lvl 1 (except I got a really cool imbue from
Charsi and got a +1 orb so everything is really at lvl instead of lvl 1. I
have been putting attribute points in at 1 ST, 2 VIT, 2 NRG in spite of an
overwhelming desire to pump about 20 into strength so I can get some decent
armor.
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <10tm7edcdnsg1d4@corp.supernews.com>,
Clam Ranger <Clam_Ranger@Clamdorosa.net> wrote:

[big snip]

>Charsi and got a +1 orb so everything is really at lvl instead of lvl 1. I
>have been putting attribute points in at 1 ST, 2 VIT, 2 NRG in spite of an
>overwhelming desire to pump about 20 into strength so I can get some decent
>armor.

Well, maybe you haven't been messing up this build skill-wise, but I'd
stop 'pumping' Energy before you really mess this build up.

Reason: as for about any build, you don't need to put any points in
energy to get a decent mana pool...

Regards,

Patrick.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Clam Ranger wrote:

> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:41db1989$0$29778
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Edit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> A lot of useful info about what
> <>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>>Clam Ranger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have recently read an FAQ posted on this news group concerning the
>>>Marrowalk bug, that stated:
>>>
>>>"...and is the only viable way to build a successful multiplayer hell
>>>capable tri-elementalist,..."
>>>
>>>
>>Your build isn't wrecked, and you haven't wasted time. You're doing
>>perfectly well following one of the most enthusiasmic and challenging
>>build in this game. Keep up the good work, and sorry for the confusion!
>>
> To which Clam Ranger Replied...
>
> Whew! thanks. I was about to really be annoyed at someone (myself likely
> for not getting more info
> on the Sorc build before I started). So far she is moving pretty good. I
> am at Clvl 29 and just about to get the really good stuff. The only thing I
> have put points into so far beyond prereqs is Nova (lvl 10) and Warmth (lvl
> 6). Every thing else is still lvl 1 (except I got a really cool imbue from
> Charsi and got a +1 orb so everything is really at lvl instead of lvl 1. I
> have been putting attribute points in at 1 ST, 2 VIT, 2 NRG in spite of an
> overwhelming desire to pump about 20 into strength so I can get some decent
> armor.

You're welcome!

I think you could stop putting points in Warmth and energy now, you
should have enough for your primary need, which is, finding one mana
potion for each mana potion you drink.

you will experience a huge boost in killing speed at levels 30-31 as you
put your first point in frozen orb and in cold mastery. This spell is
clearly a wonder in early nightmare. Learn to use it first, but be
careful, it's an addictive spell, and it leaves little room for other
tactics until hell.

Learn to play with hydras too, they can be useful to spot enemies round
corners. Once you've cleared a level with frozen orb, you could try to
do it again this time using only hydras _and_ novae. If you can do both
kinds of runs equally quickly, then you do good!

....and remember that in hell, you'll have to use your three skills at once!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

"Patrick Vervoorn" <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
message news:crf721$fnf$1@news.tudelft.nl...
> In article <10tm7edcdnsg1d4@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Well, maybe you haven't been messing up this build skill-wise, but I'd
> stop 'pumping' Energy before you really mess this build up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

To Which Clam Ranger replied
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now this is the sort of stuff I need to know. The build I have been
following gives the following advice on attribute points for Energy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>quote>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Energy - (Recommended - 2 points per level until 40. 3 points after.)
Energy is the opposite of Life, in almost anyway conceivable. While in the
early game, mana isn't important, as your skills will only be base levels,
and mana per spell will be at a minimum. The turning point of this skill is
around level 40, when you start pumping your skills quickly, and this needs
to increase more quickly to survive. Your different skills will require a
constant influx of mana.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End quote>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is what they list for Vitality

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>quote>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Vitality - (Recommended - 2 points per level until 40. 1 per level after
that)
Hmmm. Always a point worth noticing. This is needed a lot more early in the
game than late game. In fact, this is an almost non-existent factor in the
late game (Above level 80) levelling. This can be important, but for a
tri-Elementalist, this shouldn't be too much of a problem, as the
versatility and power of the Magess' attack is enough to keep this from
lowering. Good for stamina though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End Quote>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

My only experience with high level characters so far has been my level 80
necromancer (who is doing VERY nicely in hell and should be clearing the
Chaos Sanctuary this week if I have time) I pumped his strength until I got
to the level I needed to wear the armor I wanted and then went strictly to 3
pts VIT and 2 pts NRG from about level 35 or 40 until now (with no points to
dexterity at all). His mana pool is somthing over 1200 with Frostburns and
his life is around 800 base and he can spam lvl 20 Bone Spirit all day
without stopping. My thinking for pumping NRG is that a sorc is a mana
based character and she would need all she could get so you don't have to
pause and drink a purple potion during a busy moment. However since I am
very new to the game I am open to any suggestions. What would be a good
distribution for attribute points in this case?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <10tog3pa2fsjq09@corp.supernews.com>,
Clam Ranger <ClamRanger@Clamdorosa.net> wrote:

[snip]

>My only experience with high level characters so far has been my level 80
>necromancer (who is doing VERY nicely in hell and should be clearing the
>Chaos Sanctuary this week if I have time) I pumped his strength until I got
>to the level I needed to wear the armor I wanted and then went strictly to 3
>pts VIT and 2 pts NRG from about level 35 or 40 until now (with no points to
>dexterity at all). His mana pool is somthing over 1200 with Frostburns and
>his life is around 800 base and he can spam lvl 20 Bone Spirit all day
>without stopping.

Well, my summoner necro (less dependent upon mana possibly than a bone
necro) has base energy and a mana pool of about 600. He manages quite
nicely too. And has about 100 stat points left. Lvl 91.

>My thinking for pumping NRG is that a sorc is a mana
>based character and she would need all she could get so you don't have to
>pause and drink a purple potion during a busy moment. However since I am
>very new to the game I am open to any suggestions. What would be a good
>distribution for attribute points in this case?

Well, keep in mind the mana pool for any character also increases with
each level spent. Also, mana potions can be bought in the 1.10 Patch
(they could not in 1.09), and if the guide you're reading is based on
1.09, that could be a source of the points in energy.

Anyhow, my advice as to stats for a sorc would be:

- Enough Str to equip items you need
- Enough Dex to equip items you need, possibly more if you want to max
block, but I'm not sure you'd want that with this build
- Rest in Vit
- Base Energy

But, instead of this, and if you're playing SoftCore, I'd advise you to
only spend stat points when you notice you could use some more vitality
mostly. Just continue as is, and save them up. If you feel you don't have
enough mana (and don't be afraid to gulp down mana potions :), you can
always spend some points in Energy. I haven't found it necessary to spend
any with both a Trapper, a Hammerdin and a Summoning Necro.

Regards,

Patrick.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

"Patrick Vervoorn" <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
message news:crhvci$fhd$1@news.tudelft.nl...
> In article <10tog3pa2fsjq09@corp.supernews.com>,
> Clam Ranger <ClamRanger@Clamdorosa.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
Well, my summoner necro (less dependent upon mana possibly than a bone
necro) has base energy and a mana pool of about 600. He manages quite
nicely too. And has about 100 stat points left. Lvl 91.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What do you do with the extra points? I have read about saving Skill points
but have not heard of saving Attribute points. (once again my n00b is
showing) Do you leave them to dump in if you reach a spot you get stuck at?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Clam Ranger wrote:

> Now this is the sort of stuff I need to know. The build I have been
> following gives the following advice on attribute points for Energy.

For a sorceress in 1.10, you really don't need any hard points in
energy, and only very few in strength. Most points should go into
vitality and dexterity for max blocking (I don't feel that
solo-sorceresses are viable in Hell without max blocking, but people
frequently disagree! 😉). Anyway, playing with base energy is tedious
until into the 50s, but it pays off later.

By the way, please don't use a row full of ">>>>>>" to mark quotes. This
throws off a number of newsreaders and renders your messages almost
unreadable. The reason for this is that each ">" usually stands for one
layer of quotes, if a line starts with it. So numerous ">" can massively
disfigure your messages, depending on the software people use. :) This
is meant to be constructive... it isn't a flame.

M.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <10tp29k3rfe9c5@corp.supernews.com>,
Clam Ranger <ClamRanger@Clamdorosa.net> wrote:
>
>"Patrick Vervoorn" <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
>message news:crhvci$fhd$1@news.tudelft.nl...
>> In article <10tog3pa2fsjq09@corp.supernews.com>,
>> Clam Ranger <ClamRanger@Clamdorosa.net> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>Well, my summoner necro (less dependent upon mana possibly than a bone
>necro) has base energy and a mana pool of about 600. He manages quite
>nicely too. And has about 100 stat points left. Lvl 91.
>
>What do you do with the extra points? I have read about saving Skill points
>but have not heard of saving Attribute points. (once again my n00b is
>showing) Do you leave them to dump in if you reach a spot you get stuck at?

Exactly. This is common practice in SoftCore, possibly less handy in
HardCore. Also, it gives you some 'reserve' Str/Dex if you encounter an
item which is very nice, but needs a lot of Str to equip.

As an example, the much-menionted Marrowalk boots need 118 Str, which is
quite a lot more than most Necro's usually put there. But the boots are
IMHO more than worth it.

BTW, I agree with Michael Vondung's comment about your quoting: please
consider fixing/changing this, it's quite confusing and definately
non-standard.

Regards,

Patrick.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

"Michael Vondung" <mvondung@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3440qfF469qapU1@individual.net...

> For a sorceress in 1.10, you really don't need any hard points in energy,
> and only very few in strength. Most points should go into vitality and
> dexterity for max blocking (I don't feel that solo-sorceresses are viable
> in Hell without max blocking, but people frequently disagree! 😉). Anyway,
> playing with base energy is tedious until into the 50s, but it pays off
> later.
>

OK, so a good way to proceed would be to start pumping dex to get her
blocking up to max and keep pumping Vitality and lay off Energy completely?
(I did check my blocking and it is VERY low, like 10% ) so the reasoning
seems sound there. Thanks for the help with the build (and also with
quoting. I am also pretty new at USENET.)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

Clam Ranger wrote:

> OK, so a good way to proceed would be to start pumping dex to get her
> blocking up to max and keep pumping Vitality and lay off Energy completely?

That's what I'd do, yes. I rarely get more than 60-80 str, and then only
if I have specific end-game equipment in mind (a stormshield, for
instance). I usually leave 20-50 (or 20-200 😉) stat points unassigned
until I feel I really need them, but that is a bit extreme. Note here
that I play HC (one life per character) exclusively, so my focus is more
on survival and durability than maximum killing speed, though I try to
balance the two. You don't need to worry about max blocking before Hell
difficulty (clvl ~78), since it becomes only then crucial. Personally, I
have never used a specific assignment scheme, but just have the desired,
rough maximum values in mind, and then play by ear (before 30, few
points in strength, rest in vitality... then later a few more in str,
more vit, and starting in mid nightmare points in dex).

> (I did check my blocking and it is VERY low, like 10% ) so the reasoning
> seems sound there.

There are two schools of thought. The one camp advocates sorceresses
with max block, the other faction maintains that sorceresses should
never get hit, so no blocking is needed. I have never been able not to
get hit (lag, slow reaction, ranged attacks, and so on), and a 75%
chance that a devasting attack misses makes it just worthwhile for me,
especially since you can't do all that much with the 150-200 stat points
that you'll need for max blocking by clvl 80+. Mana can be easiy gotten
from charms and equipment, and the vitality return isn't that great
(vitality is important, but blocking three out of four attacks
translates to less damage taken). I've tried both approaches over the
years, and found the max blocking way to be far superior. But, it's a
bit of a philosphical question and a matter of playing style
nonetheless. Teleport if your best friend, by the way. Try to practice
it early on (before Hell), since it will really be a key component ...
(not just for escaping, but also for getting monsters where you want them).

Your first sorceress will probably not be your last sorceress. It's a
good way to experiment a bit and find out what works best for you. I've
built more sorceresses than I remember, and I think each of them
represented the collective knowledge of those that preceeded her. I see
some possible troubles in Hell for a tri-elementalist, but I've not
tried the same build in 1.10 yet, so I won't offer any concerns just
yet. I'm interested in learning more about your experience as you
progress in the game, though.

> Thanks for the help with the build (and also with
> quoting. I am also pretty new at USENET.)

Welcome. :) It's nice to see new folks around!

M.
 
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