Can be skipped, it's just how my post started: Oh and by the way, it could be confusing to everyone (including future troubleshooters.) as to "why" i posted as many informations and details, which burried the main reason that made me completely stucked after days of troubleshooting and "could possibly" also happen to someone else... not to mention the extra unnecessary insanity. That's just me. One small acceptable joke attempt, poof, 10 pages of non-sence that i don't even delete before posting. It happens, i can't help it. (Close to being pathological i said. This one is not a joke.)
TLDR (short version): Wanted help to understand why "updating the bios" solution worked, but it seems like i managed to make sens of it unexpectedly by typing. (Normal people do that just by just thinking, looks like i required a keyboard to do it). If you could proof-check both my hypothesis at the bottom of the post, it would be much appreciated ! (Proof-Checking everything would be ideal, but only if you have much spare time.)
TLDR and a last comment after finishing the post: Started as an explaination about why i posted the previous post, then asking for personnal knowledge proof-checking because i don't like the fact that i don't understand both the problem as a whole and why the solution worked (Nothing made sense to me when i started the post), to unexpectedly find out (while typing) the tiny bit of "knowledge" i was missing to make everything make sense, then a few new assumptions that i'd like to be proof-checked, to end with 2 different hypothesis about the cause of my system instability. Both being solved by the exact solution mentioned at the beginning by Darkbreeze, which is updating the BIOS. (Thanks !).
If you have enough free time and would like to help me by proof-checking all of my assumptions, i'd really like it, but since i ended up with two hypothesis that finally make sense (to me), only proof-checking both hypothesis at the very bottom of the post would be good enough since they are compatible with all the assumptions i had. (I was SURE i got something wrong, but not so sure anymore).
Original post starting here.
Final note before posting: I won't edit everything, but if something seems wrong because i mentionned "Before-BOOT" , replace it with "Before Windows 10 started loading" and re-evaluate. Also, i'm still a bit confused about "when" exactly the "BOOT" event happens. Statement such as "PC is not Booting", does it mean Windows was trying to load but it failed/crashed/restarted while it was loading ? Or it means the "Windows loading" process can't start ?
One thing i'm sure of, my knowledge is either completely outdated or simply not good enough, which i believe could also be the same for someone else.
If anyone could take a few minutes to explain to me which concept i have completely wrong (based on my hypothesis bellow and the assumptions i'm making), it would be very appreciated.
First, the reason for my previous post is all about the 6000mhz ----> 6400mhz RAM in BIOS. If it was just a matter of "oh no, i didn't update bios, that explains everything and i
understand why.", the post would be "Thanks a lot for reminding me about that, you just made my day".
Here's my hypothesis and my assumptions, please tell me where i'm wrong.
My personnal "After-Problem-Fixed" hypothesis: The value changed by itself 2 months ago exactly when the "system instability" started. 400mhz over RAM specs, very justified system instability. Simply setting it back to 6000mhz would have fixed the problem. Updating BIOS fixed even more problem. (It would explain everything, that's the only thing i'm sure of. But to me it would be "impossible" to have happened)
Another hypothesis (not mine): Updating the BIOS fixed everything. (It would also explain everything, but same here, from my knowledge it would be "impossible".
Probably wrong assumptions, plus questions:
Assumption #1: Turning on PC in chronological order: Human press power button, PSU activates, Motherboards checks if everything is okay, shakes hand with RAM (If not, multiple reboot/freeze until they are best-friend), "POST", BIOS is loading, BIOS applies it's value to every components, inspection of devices one by one according to boot-order until it finds one with bootable data, "BOOT-ATTEMPT" , process the data succesfully, "BOOT", from that point you're in software (Any OS, Windows, Linux..).
Assumption #2: Anything changing "on thier own" inside the BIOS without myself entering in the BIOS and without physical interraction with components: Values reverting to "previous state" or "default", Yes. EXPO turning on/off: A far fetched "maybe". Anything else, Impossible.
Assumption #3: Values changing inside the BIOS itself after removing/replacing a part, such as playing with RAM Sticks for memtesting then putting them back the way they are designed to work: Same as last assumption. "previous state", "default", Yes. EXPO on/off: A far fetched "maybe". Anything else, Impossible.
Assumption #4: Values inside BIOS cannot be modified by After-Boot software, but can be overridden by After-Boot software: Yes, but not without my input. And all those overrides are effective only in After-Boot.
Assumption #5: Four reasons for BIOS update: Improve compatibility for components that were already existing when the first BIOS version was made. Adjustments to make future components compatible. Adding a new feature. Correcting human-made mistake made when designing previous BIOS versions.
Assumption #6: If you stay at one specific BIOS version, and never touch any components, the "before-BOOT" system behavior will stay exactly the same, always.
Assumption #7: In this whole post, all my "impossible" become "possible" and every assumptions becomes invalid only those situations: Defective components.
Hypothesis i discarded: One software update (let's say windows update) making the system instable with the already-installed BIOS version, making the "BIOS update fixed the problem" without involving the 6000mhz/6400mhz undefined event. It would make sense. However, it would break my
Assumption #5 since Memtest86 test are run "before-BOOT". I ran a 2-pass Memtest86 6-months ago with no error. This week, Memtest86 same errors every passes, always.
Comments and Questions about that previous discarded hypothesis: Just realised the "statement" i just made "Memtest86 tests are run before-boot" contradict something in my
Assumption #1. I'm a bit confused now, is it just me using the wrong terms with no impact on my logic, or did i just find what's wrong with my knowledge. Okay, so Memtest86 is on a storage device (USB stick). It contains bootable data. So basically, a boot-attempt is made, then "boot", then Memtest86 program starts running, which, from my own assumptions and personnal definition of "software", enters the same category of any OS such as Windows. I may have something here.
Assumptions about Memtest86: I always assumed Memtest86 had to be run "before-boot" to stay at the hardware level. With the "just-added-to-personnal-knowledge" concept of "Booting into Memtest86"
, which would define Memtest86 as "software", the only logical reason to run Memtest86 from a USB stick would be to prevent any disturbance from the operating system. Running any kind of Memtest86 inside windows would indeed be either unreliable or very limited in it's testing capabilities. Oh my god, if i'm not completely wrong about everything, my personnal knowledge is updated from "hopefully-right new assumtions".
Updated Assumptions about Memtest86: Memtest86 is a "software". It "could" override BIOS value while running, but not change them in the BIOS Itself. All my "Before-Boot" assumptions about Memtest86 are burned to ashes. Memtest86 is run from a bootable device, not only to run "Outside-OS", but also to be the only "Booted-Software" running on the system. (Don't even know if it's possible to run multiple independant "Booted-Software" at the same time, but it would seem logical that it would interfere with Memtest86. It doesn't matter anyway, different topic completely.)
Extra Assumptions about Memtest86: Different version of Memtest86 could give different results. That would explain why i had memtest86 errors this week and not 6-months ago. Different Memtest86 version giving different results. Never bothered checking version number, just downloaded the lastest one.
Two description of my instability problem and it's source. (Still at the "hypothesis" level)
- System instability (After booting into Windows 10). Most likely caused by an "undefined" update that happened 2 months ago. (Windows update, or other app update running inside windows). Compatibility issues between that "undefined" update and the installed BIOS version (7D78v16), which caused system instability inside windows 10. Possible solution: Install another BIOS version (Older or Newer). Solution chosen that solved the issue: BIOS updated to lastest stable version. (7D78v19). Solution is exactly the one adviced by Darkbreeze (Thanks !). Doesn't explain that RAM frequency at 6400mhz though, but not worth investigating at this point.
-
Human-made error in the installed BIOS version (7D78v16) that could cause RAM frequency value inside BIOS to change unexpectedly to an "undefined" value that is not "previous" and not "default". Complete system instability caused by RAM frequency being set to a value higher than RAM Sticks Specification. Possible Solutions: 1- Manually changing RAM frequency value to specification inside the BIOS. 2- Install another BIOS version (Older or Newer). Solution chosen that solved the issue: BIOS updated to lastest stable version. (7D78v19). Same solution, updating the BIOS. I could test that hypothesis by reverting to previous BIOS version, set RAM to 6400mhz manually, and observe if the system behavior inside Windows is exactly the same. But at this point it would be for personnal curiosity only, so not worth testing. Also, i may be wrong about that since i didn't attempt any overclocking for a very long time (Aside from setting RAM to specification), but 6000 ---> 6400 seems a bit too much out of specs for my instability issue that could "randomly" let the system stable for 24 hours.
One final question: If the system instability is strictly related to compatibility issues between the OS and BIOS version, is it possible for the instability to show up right after the operating system "BEGINS" loading ? Or it will show up only "AFTER" it is loaded ?