True Brujah Question

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

First off, from a World-of-Darkness point of view, what is this clan? I
used to play V:tM and I don't remember any independent sect called the
True Brujah.

Secondly, from a game perspective, does their inability to use cards
that require Celerity mean that, say, if they went Anarch that they
could not use a 3-discipline card such as Diversion for one of the
non-celerity abilities if one of the uses does require Celerity?

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Preston wrote:
> First off, from a World-of-Darkness point of view, what is this clan?
I
> used to play V:tM and I don't remember any independent sect called
the
> True Brujah.
>

They were in the Black Hand sourcebook. They are supposedly the
bloodline descended from Brujah himself, instead of from Troile (who
diablerised his sire Brujah).

> Secondly, from a game perspective, does their inability to use cards
> that require Celerity mean that, say, if they went Anarch that they
> could not use a 3-discipline card such as Diversion for one of the
> non-celerity abilities if one of the uses does require Celerity?

3-discipline cards have 3 seperate actions upon them. You do not need
all three disciplines to have access to the cards, you are just limited
as to what you can use.

It is like the bloodlines cards that had a minor for one discipline
(Sense the Sin for example) and a minor/superior for another. So in
Sense the Sin, aus got you +1 intercept against a younger vampire,
while dai/DAI got you intercept or bleed modifier. You don't have to
have both auspex and daimoinion to play it.

So True Brujah may use the diversion for the fortitude or thaumaturgy
options, but not the celerity one.

Also note that their restriction does not forbid them to actually gain
celerity, just bans the use of it. So you could equip with a Drum f
Xipe Totec if you desire and they would gain the maneuver.

Regards,
D

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Morgan Vening wrote:
> On 21 Mar 2005 14:38:28 -0800, "quetzalcoatl" <david@vega.id.au>
> wrote:

> I don't understand this. The argument seems flawed. The statement
that
> you don't need Auspex AND Daiminion to play Sense the Sin doesn't
gel.
> You can use whatever card element qualifiers a vampire has. It's akin
> to saying Uriah Winter can't play Torn Signpost because he doesn't
> have superior Potence.

Right - you can a card like Sense the Sin for whatever requirements you
can meet.

A vampire that has only Auspex and no Daimonion can still play Sense
the Sin - but only at the outferior [aus] effect. He is not prohibited
from playing the card in general just because he lacks Daimonion; he's
prohibited from playing the [dai] or [DAI] effects.

So the statement that 'you don't need Auspex AND Daimonion to play
Sense the Sin' is entirely accurate - you need Auspex OR Daimonion.

> True Brujah state "~ cannot use cards that require Celerity.". I'm
not
> sure how that can permit Diversion. If one of the True Brujah had the
> special ability "Move a library card that does not require Celerity
> from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth action" are you
saying
> he would be able to fetch Diversion?

The key difference is between an effect that looks for a type of card
(like a 'find a card that requires celerity') and how cards get played.

Consider that Vast Wealth can't find Zip Guns because they're not
actually equipment in your deck, but combat cards.

But when you play a card that has several options, you are playing it
as if it required only those discipline(s) required for the effect
you're using. So a True Brujah can certainly play Diversion at [for] -
assuming he had the Fortitude. But he can't ever play it for an
additional strike - when he plays it for the Fortitude level, it is not
counting as a card that requires Celerity, only inferior Fortitude.

As a counter-example, when Uriah Winter plays Torn Signpost, he plays
it as a card that requires Potence - not one that requires superior
Potence, even though the card has an effect that requires Superior
Potence, because he's playing it at the inferior level. As he plays it,
it only counts as a card that requires ONLY [pot]. Just as when an
Anarch Uriah plays Improvised Tactics, he plays it as a card requiring
[pot], not one requiring [pot] and [aus] and [tha] - because in that
case, he'd never be able to play the IT in the first place.

> Morgan Vening

-John Flournoy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> Secondly, from a game perspective, does their inability to use cards
> that require Celerity mean that, say, if they went Anarch that they
> could not use a 3-discipline card such as Diversion for one of the
> non-celerity abilities if one of the uses does require Celerity?
>

A card in the hand, library, or ashheap requires whichever thing is most
convenient. A card being played requires whatever is required for that
level. A True Brujah could play Diversion at [for] or [tha] but not [cel].

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1111446985.478866.210440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Morgan Vening wrote:
> > On 21 Mar 2005 14:38:28 -0800, "quetzalcoatl" <david@vega.id.au>
> > wrote:
>
> > I don't understand this. The argument seems flawed. The statement
> that
> > you don't need Auspex AND Daiminion to play Sense the Sin doesn't
> gel.
> > You can use whatever card element qualifiers a vampire has. It's akin
> > to saying Uriah Winter can't play Torn Signpost because he doesn't
> > have superior Potence.
>
> Right - you can a card like Sense the Sin for whatever requirements you
> can meet.

Said more directly: a card played requires whatever was required to
play it.

http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/bldoc.html

> A vampire that has only Auspex and no Daimonion can still play Sense
> the Sin - but only at the outferior [aus] effect. He is not prohibited
> from playing the card in general just because he lacks Daimonion; he's
> prohibited from playing the [dai] or [DAI] effects.


Restated: Sense the Sin at [aus] does not require Daimoinon -- a minion
without Daimoinon may play it at [aus] (assuming he or she has Auspex,
of course).

> So the statement that 'you don't need Auspex AND Daimonion to play
> Sense the Sin' is entirely accurate - you need Auspex OR Daimonion.
>
> > True Brujah state "~ cannot use cards that require Celerity.". I'm
> not
> > sure how that can permit Diversion. If one of the True Brujah had the
> > special ability "Move a library card that does not require Celerity
> > from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth action" are you
> saying
> > he would be able to fetch Diversion?
>
> The key difference is between an effect that looks for a type of card
> (like a 'find a card that requires celerity') and how cards get played.

Correct. From the bldoc.html page cited above:

When played, the card counts as requiring the discipline
being used (for effects that enhance or restrict cards that
require certain disciplines). In the hand (or library or ash
heap), the card can be considered to require either discipline
(for effects that retrieve cards that require certain
disciplines).

> Consider that Vast Wealth can't find Zip Guns because they're not
> actually equipment in your deck, but combat cards.
>
> But when you play a card that has several options, you are playing it
> as if it required only those discipline(s) required for the effect
> you're using. So a True Brujah can certainly play Diversion at [for] -
> assuming he had the Fortitude. But he can't ever play it for an
> additional strike - when he plays it for the Fortitude level, it is not
> counting as a card that requires Celerity, only inferior Fortitude.

Correct. Diversion played at [for] does not require Celerity, so the
True Brujah may play it.

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (Remove spam trap to reply).
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 21 Mar 2005 14:38:28 -0800, "quetzalcoatl" <david@vega.id.au>
wrote:

>> Secondly, from a game perspective, does their inability to use cards
>> that require Celerity mean that, say, if they went Anarch that they
>> could not use a 3-discipline card such as Diversion for one of the
>> non-celerity abilities if one of the uses does require Celerity?
>
>3-discipline cards have 3 seperate actions upon them. You do not need
>all three disciplines to have access to the cards, you are just limited
>as to what you can use.
>
>It is like the bloodlines cards that had a minor for one discipline
>(Sense the Sin for example) and a minor/superior for another. So in
>Sense the Sin, aus got you +1 intercept against a younger vampire,
>while dai/DAI got you intercept or bleed modifier. You don't have to
>have both auspex and daimoinion to play it.
>
>So True Brujah may use the diversion for the fortitude or thaumaturgy
>options, but not the celerity one.
>
>Also note that their restriction does not forbid them to actually gain
>celerity, just bans the use of it. So you could equip with a Drum f
>Xipe Totec if you desire and they would gain the maneuver.

I don't understand this. The argument seems flawed. The statement that
you don't need Auspex AND Daiminion to play Sense the Sin doesn't gel.
You can use whatever card element qualifiers a vampire has. It's akin
to saying Uriah Winter can't play Torn Signpost because he doesn't
have superior Potence.

True Brujah state "~ cannot use cards that require Celerity.". I'm not
sure how that can permit Diversion. If one of the True Brujah had the
special ability "Move a library card that does not require Celerity
from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth action" are you saying
he would be able to fetch Diversion?

Morgan Vening