Try and improve my $875.58 system, I dare you.

[ultimatek7]

I think I have come up with a pretty solid system here. Please help me to find weak spots or flaws, or gross misjudgments. Or if there is somewhere I can spend and extra $10 for a big upgrade. Or if there is somewhere I am throwing money away.

This is going to be my second build, and I want to spend around $800. I hope to have this machine for 5~6 years at a minimum. I decided on a quad core machine. I know that the quad cords have a significant impact on AutoCAD, the main software I will use. I also figure that in four years more software will take full advantage of four cores, and because quad core sounds cooler than dual core. This is what I will manly use the machine for
- drafting (AutoCAD 2008)
- viewing multiple large pdfs
- running engineering selection / calculation software
- some picture and video editing
- web browsing
- I constantly have multiple programs/files open at the same time
- ex. 10 cad drawings, 4 pdfs, 3 explorer windows, a couple of engineering programs, etc.

Here is what I am about to get. The prices are after all discounts, shipping, etc (the “out the door” price)

CPU – $189.99
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017
Is there any other choice? Pretty confidant on this choice. This seems to be the staple for a midrange quad core system with good OC potential. I am planning to OC to 3.0GHz (maybe up to 3.5 GHz). See my calc’s under my memory choice and see if they make sense. Don’t try and talk me into the E8500 dual core, I’ve made up my mind on this one.

Heatsink - $31.24
XIGMATEK HDT-D1264 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233004
This seems like the best bang for the buck and won’t have problems getting my Q6600 to 3.0GHz and even above. I am pretty sure this is the one that matches with the Q6600. Not sure what the difference is between the HDT-D1284 other than $17
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233018
I am going to hold off on the bracket for now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233019

Thermal Grease - $12.98
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
Pretty standard it seems

Mobo – $119.38
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128344
The cost between the P45 and P35 is negligible. I also want to have the ability to RAID my system in the future. This has the ability to SLI and Crossfire, probably won’t use this feature, but you never know.

GPU - $110.99
PNY VCG88512GXEB-FLB GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133232
I have heard good things about the 8800’s and AutoCAD. This seems like tired and true chipset for a GPU (do people still call it a GPU?). There are a bunch of GPUs with this processor, but this one is cheap and highly rated. Has the ability to utilize SLI with a second one in the future if need be. I won’t lie, the free copy of Fuel of War had something to do with this decision. I am not sure on all the differences between the 8800 GT, GS, GTS, etc. This one seems like the right choice

Hard Drive - $84.99
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218
Nothing too complicated here. This just seems like a solid drive. I seem to always lean tward WD. I like the 16MB cache, 32MB just isn’t in my budget. I plan on buying two more eventually and set them up with RAID 5.

Memory - $52.80 (price keeps fluctuating a couple of bucks)
Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104041
Sooooo many to choose from. I think this used to be up on newegg as a different post. I believe it was rated as a customer favorite. I took a look at the GA-EP45-DS3R manufacturer’s info and this one is on their qualified vendors list, well almost. It is off by one number at the end of the model number.
KHX6400D2LLK2/2GNR vs KHX6400D2ULK2/2G, close enough, right?
This is what I understand about memory speeds.
If I set the base/core speed to 266 with x9 multiplier I will have
266 x 4 = 1066 MHz FSB
266 x 2 = 533 MHz RAM
266 x 9 = 2.4 GHz CPU
If I plan to overclock my CPU to 3.0 GHz with a 388 base/core speed and the same 9x
333 x 4 = 1333 MHz FSB – the mobo can handle this I think
333 x 2 = 666 MHz RAM required (DDR2-800 is not much of an overkill)
333 x 9 = 3.0 GHz CPU

Case - $134.98
XCLIO WTBK ADVANCED Fully Black Finish Steel / Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103019
Lots and lots of fans keep my system cool. The main reason for this choice is because of the $70 discount when I combo it with the Q6600. Temp gauge on the front seems cool if it works. This is a little pricy for my budget, but seems like a good deal especially since I want to OC a little.

Power Supply - $79.99
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
Seems like about the best price for a good PS. I assume that 650W is enough to handle my system and an additional video card and hard drive or two.

DVD - $27.99
SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 22X DVD-R 16X DVD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD±R DVD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151173
Pretty standard. Has good ratings and 1x winner of Customer Choice Award.

Monitor
That’s another post, but something in the LCD 22” 2ms range for under $250 hopefully.

So there it is for a grand total, without a monitor, of $875.58. I think it will all work together, and I don’t think I have any real bottle necks or overkills. Then again have been wrong before (once back in 1986 but that is still under review)

Thanks in advance for all the help. I couldn’t have gotten this far without Tom and his Hardware guide. Thanks Tom!!!

ultimateK

 

[megamanx00]

If your going to do alot of workstation apps you mighnt want to consider softmodding that 8800GT into a Quadro. Take a look at this tutorial

http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=539&pgno=0

 

[dirtmountain]

I've always thought that CAD work was pretty RAM intensive. Maybe 2x2 GB of RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146731
or if it's not needed, cheap RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227124
you sure did your homework though, good build

 

[jdw_swb]

Your Mobo supports crossfire....so get an ATI card.

 

[geofelt]

You will be very unhappy with only 2gb of ram. I suggest at least a 4gb kit of ddr2-800 ram in a 2x2gb package. Lots of ram is essential for multitasking.

Why is AS-5 $12? It should be half that.

A quad is good for you, because of multitasking, but I think the Q6600 is a bit old today. I would look for one of the newer 45nm parts. They are faster, and run cooler. Realize, also that the iminent nehalem launch will obsolete any current quads. The entry unit at about $300 and the other parts are a bit out of your budget, but perhaps you want to save up a bit more if you expect to have a decent system for 5-6 years.

The motherboard you picked can not run SLI with the vga card you picked. SLI is not that great an idea in the mid-range anyway. It is still a good board, but you could get a DS3L version for less. Raid may not be right for you, it often isn't. One can always buy a raid card later.

You picked an expensive, large case, but you don't have very many parts to put in it. You should be able to find something good for $60 or so. How about the Antec 300? $59.95 with free shipping. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010090007%2050001516&bop=And&Order=PRICE

 

[kamel5547]

Um, I'm going to assume that by AuotCAD you mean AutoCAD (unlike our drafters who use it interchangeably to mean AutoCAD, Land Desktop, Civil 3D, and Revit much to my utter confusion/disappointment).

I know... you've made up your mind but... Multicore systems have a minimum performance boost in AutoCAD... check your reseller ( or this thread in the Autodesk forum http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=678360 or post the question at the hardware discussion forum over at Autodesk). Increase your RAM instead and get a higher clocked dual core would be my advice for a better result. I sincerely doubt that AutoCAD will ever take advantage of quad based on what it does, since this is your primary focus this is what the advice is based on.

Skip RAID 5... your better off with an external backup drive and RAID 0 given the cost considerations, performance hit, and the fact you'd probably end up in a software RAID solution absed on the budget for this build.

 

[doomturkey]

Definitely buy the bracket for the xigmatek cooler. And don't get the HDT D1264, get the HDT S1283. Its the tried and true cooler.

You also most definitely want at least 4gb RAM, its cheap anyways.

One more thing, be careful about overclocking and running professional software. My dad, who edits a lot of video, has told me that even minor overclocks can greatly effect the stability of workstation PCs. I saw it happen on his computer, overclocked his E6300 to 2.4ghz, and it started producing errors. Just be careful, thats all.

 

[Guest]

I second the newer quad-core chips on 45nm, though I'd recommend a nice C2D 8500. Regardless, both C2D and C2Q on 45nm are cooler and more efficient. Reading through the article on the AutoCad link that kamel5547 provided, it seems that only a few functions, including rendering, are multi-threaded in AutoCad. Regardless, I'm sure it will be fully utilized in the future. Get Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33GHz if you get quad, otherwise get C2D 8500. Also, get OCZ Freeze Extreme. Its cheaper and slightly more efficient when it comes to cooling ($6.99 on Newegg):

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=138&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=6

Definitely stick with 4 gb of ram (2 x 2gb). This is a Crossfire Board, not SLI. Then again you're not going to be using the computer to game, so you don't need more than one video card. Then again...again, you might not have included gaming just to throw us off. If so, get a 4850 or 70 and possibly get another in the future. Otherwise, 8800 gt is just fine. Then again...yet again, you said you wanted the system to last for 5~6 years minimum. It will last sure, it just won't age well, ha. Power supply is fine for dual 8800gt, unless you want to Crossfire with 4850 or 70, then get a Corsair CMPSU-750TX or PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Quad or higher. Peace.

 

[doomturkey]

I second the newer quad-core chips on 45nm, though I'd recommend a nice C2D 8500. Regardless, both C2D and C2Q on 45nm are cooler and more efficient. Reading through the article on the AutoCad link that kamel5547 provided, it seems that only a few functions, including rendering, are multi-threaded in AutoCad. Regardless, I'm sure it will be fully utilized in the future. Get Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33GHz if you get quad, otherwise get C2D 8500. Also, get OCZ Freeze Extreme. Its cheaper and slightly more efficient when it comes to cooling ($6.99 on Newegg):

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=138&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=6

Definitely stick with 4 gb of ram (2 x 2gb). This is a Crossfire Board, not SLI. Then again you're not going to be using the computer to game, so you don't need more than one video card. Then again...again, you might not have included gaming just to throw us off. If so, get a 4850 or 70 and possibly get another in the future. Otherwise, 8800 gt is just fine. Then again...yet again, you said you wanted the system to last for 5~6 years minimum. It will last sure, it just won't age well, ha. Power supply is fine for dual 8800gt, unless you want to Crossfire with 4850 or 70, then get a Corsair CMPSU-750TX or PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Quad or higher. Peace.

I wouldn't get the Q8200. First of all, it has a lower clock speed, second, only 4mb cache!
The Q6600 is A) cheaper B) 2 x 4mb cache C) 2.4ghz opposed to 2.33ghz. Nothing wrong with the E8500 though.

 

[fiberx]

Few comments on this post...

1) In terms of Overclocking... Last time I was using CAD software it was AutoCAD r14 (Those who know, know that's OLD , but I hated 2000 when they came out so I kept using r14 for awhile). So this may no longer apply. However, I never had any issues with overclocking affecting the stability of the software, although I will say that there were some "unexplained" artifacts in my rendering for both CAD and 3D modeling software. Usually when it happened, I would just restart the render unless it was very long, and then I would photoshop out the small issues.

Either way, as with any CAD program save often and perhaps save multiple copies just in case one becomes corrupt.... Just until you're 100% sure that you're not going to lose any work over it. No sense risking it, right?

As far as the RAM goes, 4 GBs is a must for you. You WILL notice the difference between 2GB and 4GB, and with the price of RAM these days, it's well worth the upgrade.

For the GPU, someone mentioned softmodding your card to quaddro. This is actually as simple as installing CPU-Z, looking up your exact GPU, then finding the Quaddro driver for it (Download latest quaddro drivers, and look in the nvdisp.inf file for the exact driver you need, install then reboot). Results are mixed at best for many users though, so I wouldn't rely on it as a way to get the great results of a quaddro at 8800 prices.

*Note: No one has really posted up AutoCAD "before and after" for this softmod, so it's really up in the air if it would even help you.

 

[bobbknight]

Definitely buy the bracket for the xigmatek cooler. And don't get the HDT D1264, get the HDT S1283. Its the tried and true cooler.

I second the bracket for the Xigmatek, but you should look st the AC freezer 7 Pro. Same cooling ability as the S1283 but less expensive.
For about a week Newegg had the AC Freezer 7 Pro for $25 shipped.
Or the Xigmatek HDT--S1284 Which has much better cooling specs.

 

[Zenthar]

Great build, but as some suggested, consider 4GB or more of RAM, with AutoCAD it won't be too much. And since you will have that much memory, get a 64 bits OS (I suggest Vista).

 

[ultimatek7]

Wow, thanks for all the great input.

MORE RAM!!!!
Right now I only have the 32 bit XP pro so I believe that it will only recognize a little more than 3 Gigs.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html
I figured I would wait to get more ram once I upgraded to 64bit XP. Anyone know a good deal on 64bit XP? I would guess that the Home edition will be fine for what I will use it for. Since you guys are so convincing on more RAM I think I will just get the 4 Gigs (2x2) and just deal with the shortage for now until I get 64 bit XP. I have pretty much ruled out Vista.

SLI vs CROSSFIRE (I am stupid)
I could have sworn that this board supported SLI. Thanks for catching that everyone. Is crossfire that much better than SLI? It seems like people have more hassle with crossfire than SLI. I like the mobo and graphics card I have picked out, but it does seem senseless to get an SLI card in a crossfire board.

HEAT SINK
Now you guys have me all confused on what to get.
Xigmatek HDT-D1264 $31.24 – $13.98 bracket needed
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 $45.25 – Is a bracket required for this on, sounds like it is.
Xigmatek HDT-D1284 $48.24 – $13.98 bracket needed
AC Freeze 7 $31.99 – no bracket?
The AC freeze 7 definatly looks like a solid choice. I assume no bracket is required? I think this is the one you are talking about
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134
Its now up to $31.99 out the door, but still seems like a good deal especially if no extra bracket is required. I am a little concerned about space issues with this.

THERMAL GREASE
The AS-5 is $5.99 plus $6.99 shipping that how I got the $12.98. The shipping doesn’t quite add up when you buy multiple items. I assume that new egg discounts the shipping somehow.

RAID
You guys seem to think RAID isn’t a good idea. A external backup may just be the way to go. I didn’t realize that there was a software and hardware versions of RAID. I think I might stick with the DS3R for now just because the price is not that much more. The DS3L is $108.96 and the DS3R is $116.38 after all discounts and shipping. The DS3R has a $20 mail in rebate that the DS3L does not. But defiantly something for me to consider, thanks.

CASE
I know the case may be a little over kill, but it looks so cool. Plus it is hard to pass it up since I get $70 with the mobo combo. It is also nice that it comes with all the fans you could need. I know this is overkill and it is the first place I am looking at cutting back to lower the budget. The Antec Case is a great lower cost solution. You may have just saved me $75! I think might for the Antec case and put the extra money toward more RAM and a 64 bit OS.

SOFTMODDING
Thanks for the tip. I will defiantly look into that.

I am currently using AutoCAD 2007 (and I qsave like it is going out of style) but will be upgrading to 08 or 09 soon (R14 Rocked!!). Right now the quad may not help out cad much, but hopefully in 3 years it will be worth it, and again, Quad sounds cooler than Dual.

 

[ultimatek7]

How important is it that your specific memory is on your motherboards list or qualified vendors?

 

[geofelt]

Vista home premium 64 is an excellent product. It is more secure, and runs everything except old dos based 16 bit programs. Driver support is fine, unless you have some old obsolete parts that don't warrant driver certification. Don't believe the FUD about it. For an interesting view on that google the mojave experiment.

SLI and crossfire offer a solution to those who just want more than a top of the line vga card can deliver. Currently, that is a 4879X2. If you are not in that class, then don't spend the extra money on the more expensive motherboards, psu's, and cooling that is required. If you ever need to upgrade, just sell the old card, and get a new better one.

CPU heat sinks are secured either by a mounting bracket under the mobo, or by the intel push pins. The pushpins are tricky to get installed properly. If not done right, the heat sink will loosen, causing the cpu to overheat. Get the bracket if you can. Any of the heat sinks mentioned will do the job.

The DS3R is a good board. I picked it over the DS3L mainly because it had more USB ports on the back.
The value of raid-1 for protecting data is that you can recover from a hard drive failure quickly.
It is for servers that can't afford any down time.
Recovery from a hard drive failure is just moments.
Fortunately hard drives do not fail often.
Raid-1 does not protect you from other types of losses such as viruses,
software errors, operator error, or fire...etc.
For that, you need EXTERNAL backup.
If you have external backup, and can afford some recovery time, then you don't need raid-1.

Go to the ram vendor's web site and use their configurator. You enter your mobo, and get a list of compatible ram parts. Corsair, Kingston, and Patriot have them, and perhaps others. Their information is more current than the Mobo QVL specs.
---good luck---

 

[ultimatek7]

Thanks for the tips geofelt. I think I will stick with my crazy SLI card on my crossfire mobo. Realistically I will never run two video cards anyway. The RAM tip is also a big help. Maybe I am just showing my age, but I think I will stick with XP. They currently run XP at me work, and I know they won't be upgrading for probably five years. It will be easier for me if I have the same OS at home and work. Okay, that was an excuse. I think Vista is the new Windows ME and I am just waiting for it to fade away. But don't value my opinion on OS's. I am putting a SLI card in a crossfire board, so you already know I am crazy!

 

[ultimatek7]

So are you saying it is still a good idea to get a bracket even with the AC freeze 7?