Trying to help my mother upgrade sound; no clue what I'm looking for.

[DarkSable]

Hey there, Tom's!

I'm home for the weekend, visiting my mother, and she wants me to help her upgrade her sound system. I'm in something of a panic, because although I know about computers, electronics, and now watercooling, I know nothing about sound systems.

So here's the deal - I'm looking for some help upgrading her system. Here's what she's got right now, along with her usage habits:

- A hand-me-down computer using Phenom II, a GTS 250, and onboard sound. The onboard sound is extremely crappy and prone to hissy fits - only one of the back panel 3.5mm jacks functions, and neither of the front headers work. I'm looking at putting a sound card in it - it's got plenty of room.

- That computer is currently connected, by way of a pair of 3.5mm extension cables to my old receiver. The best of my telling, it's an Onkyo TX-84. It still works great, except for a few problems - most notably, that it only has connections for coax, speaker wire, and "antenna."

- That wouldn't be a problem, except that it has no subwoofer out... and the sub died. Not certain what exactly is wrong with it, but it's a gonner. The other two I had laying around are one, not nearly as good, and two, require a "subwoofer" connection.

- That means that she's listening to music currently through a 3.5mm extension cable, going through an old receiver, and being piped through speaker wire to two great big, very old 'Kef' stand speakers. Couldn't tell you the model number (I'll look it up in the morning, when it's light), but I can tell you that they sound very good, and that they're as old as the rest of that system, which was handed down to me by my dad from when he was in his teens.



So that's what we're dealing with. My mom only wants this sytem to listen to music with - no movies at all, just music. The room it's in has wood walls and ceiling and a carpet floor, several glass doors and a bay window, and the sound system should still be able to sound good at a 90 degree angle from it - as they listen from the porch fairly often.

The budget is about $700, but that can go up a little bit if it'll get good reviews. I'm hoping to go with a sound card and either a whole new speaker setup (which would give me my speakers back for when I can afford a new sound system), or just a new receiver and a good sub. Is that even needed? Should I just be tracking down a sub that will work with that receiver? I saw a lot of people on audiophile forums saying it's a very well made receiver.

Anyways. I was looking at this onkyo setup on newegg, as it's a pretty good deal, but I'm not convinced that 7.1 is what I should be looking at; any opinions? Also, is Onkyo still even still a legendary budget brand like it used to be?

Thanks for the help, guys; I'm totally lost when it comes to sound, and want to make sure her money is spent well and will give her good quality, reliable music.

 

[Guest]

although i'm also more of a computer guy (surprise...), i also appreciate a good sound system. with that said, i think the onkyo you linked is complete overkill, if she really only want's to listen to music. for that a good stereo setup should suffice.

since the receiver/amp and speakers seem to be the lesser problem (for now), i'd advise you to check out the audio-capabilities of the pc again. get a pair of headphones you know sound good and give it a listen with different kinds of music, of course including what she will listen mostly. if that's crap and there is also no possibility to fix the front aoudio-out a soundcard is the next logical step. i don't think it has to be the fanciest one, but maybe do a little research to also find out if the drivers are good. i once bought an el-cheapo creative (sound blaster 5.1 vx) and still want to hang the programmers by the balls. maybe that's improved by now, with models more expensive than 20 bucks at least

i can't tell you what specific model is the best choice for you since i'm not quite up to date on this topic, but an asus xonar d1 or dx, or if you want to try, a sound blaster x-fi could prove as a good starting point.

of course this is just the basis, the source/output of the pc, and i probably don't have to tell you that the connection to the receiver through a 3,5mm cable isn't the optimum. i personally have no big problem with such a solution, but i also don't have the money to spend big on a sound system. the soundcards i mentioned also have optical out, that would be ideal of course.

with the new card you should try to get the best out of your old onkyo/kef-setup.

at this point i wouldn't advise you to invest hundreds of dollars in a new receiver and speakers, since i don't think they are the waek link, as you also state (about the kef).

a tip would also be to check all the wires, since there's not much sense in upgrading everything else, if the culprit is a simple cable rotting/corroding after decades of use.

if this all doesn't give you the desired experience, there'll be no way around replacing the receiver first, get a new one with optical in, so you can be shure the connection pc->receiver isn't a problem.

i won't give you any specific make/model in this case neither, since that isn't my field of experience and it seems i can't find a good value one which isn't completely overkill for "just music" with a quick amazon search. personally i wouldn't spent more than ~200$ on such a receiver, but i guess you could find a unit in good condition and at a good price on ebay, which fits your bill. just remember you really don't neet thx, 7.1 and whatnot to enjoy a good album in stereo

as i said, not an expert on this topic, i just don't want anybody to run out an get a 700€ (!) marantz at an audiophile shop, which you get for 400 online, just to connect it to some 2nd hand magnat-pa-style speakers, like my father once did

hope i could be of help, maybe i'll check back later!

 

[thee_prisoner]

Do Not get rid of the KEFs! Depending on model, they could be decent to great speakers.

The on board sound is probably good but it is something else that is causing the static sound problem, For example, cleaning the case, un-plug and re-plug in the various cables. And the software for the on board sound could be set up badly.

If your Mom is just listening to music there is really no need to get some "speaker system" So a simple stereo speaker set up unless you want multi room sound. The fact she wants to listen to music out on the porch from a inside source of sound means to me she might want some good back ground music, like some good jazz, classical and etc type speakers(Your old KEFs) that can fill a room or rooms but still sound good near the source.

Or is she an interested listener who might want some upfront time with the speakers?

2.0 or 2.1 at least in the short term. Your old receiver should be fine as long as it can accept the inputs from a sound card.

With a $700 budget. I would suggest going with your Mom to a new/used stereo store and try out some speakers. Spend most of it on speakers.

I don't see why a surround sound system is best money spent. Buy something local where ever you are and go simple, then expand.

Happy listening, the Prisoner...

 

[smorizio]

It could be the sound chip is failing or what she running is taxing the CPU. Most sound issues with onbord sound are caused taxed system. I would build a new amd apu or pick up a pre built system.toss in ram so there eight gigs and a 40.00 asus sound card. The older sound blaster sound cards they stop writing the drivers for them. There few open sorce for the older sound blaster chipsets. One other thing is Boston and Bose. Both now make a set of great sounding pc speaker set up.myself I would still use the old reviver till it died.

 

[batuchka]

Well if the issue is with the onboard sound get a discrete sound card. Also for music i agree with the previous posters - those KEFs could well be a gem and many peeps would tell ya that unlike PCs, older speakers may sound better than newer ones. For music a pair of decent floor standers spanks any pathetic cheaply built puny sats from a boxed 5.1 set any day for me ^^

 

[DarkSable]

Alright. First of all, thanks for the replies, everyone! Looked up the Kef's - they're type sp3016. I'm not certain how accurate that is, though, because when I looked up that model, it called them Coda III bookshelf speakers, and these are more something you build a bookshelf OUT of than put on one.

Fokka, that's pretty much what I was thinking on having a good stereo system, but we're not there yet.

The problem is twofold: first, she has no working subwoofer. Second, she has bad quality sound coming from her computer. I'm planning on getting her a decent sound card because I'm fairly certain the onboard is going, and even if it's not, it's a pos anyways, and a sound card will let me get a better connection. (Ideally it would be a sound card with speaker connections, but since that doesn't seem to exist, what's the best format for sending an audio signal 12-15 feet? I know that optical is good but that it can be finicky depending on what revision of optical you have - the receiver she's got right now also doesn't have an optical in, or even a 3.5mm in - I'm using a 3.5mm extension and then a 3.5mm to coax cable.)

I'll definitely check the cables, and do a little research on what sort of receiver would be the best fit for a purely audio system.


The Prisoner, what do you think of those Kefs? As far as I can tell, they're good low-mid range speakers, yes?
She's going to be doing a mix of having it as background music and actually paying attention to what's being played - a mixture of mostly rock, with some blues-type sounds thrown in there, with a bit of just about everything else. (Note that what I'm looking for is something that can pump volume and have very good clarity when playing rock music - that's important to her.)


Smorizio, I'm not going to rebuild the system, and there's no need to - at most I'm going to throw in a decent sound card, as it's got a Phenom II x4 and 8GB of ram already. (albeit ddr2, but hey.) The trouble with using the old receiver is that it's only got coax as an imput option and that would mean having to try to find a subwoofer that can run on speaker wire, which is hard nowadays.


So since I've already got the Kef's, which work well, would you recommend just going with a receiver that can take sound card input, a sound card, and a subwoofer that actually works, then?

 

[thee_prisoner]

Dark Sable, looking up that KEF model they seem to be bigger than normal book shelf type speakers. Hard to say without photos. Quality wise they are ok but to replace them with other speakers wouldn't be worth it unless you plan to spend a few hundred dollars on speakers. It looks like that model is fine for treble and a good mid range, a sub woofer would help for the bottom end for rock music. I would recommend going to a local, independent stereo store. They could link you up with a used receiver(trade ins also) and a sub that will match with the KEFs.

The problem with the TX-84 is that it doesn't have a sub out or at least an A+B switch, it's either or, not both. I figuring on the A+B in terms of powering the sub and 2 main speakers but without A+B that won't happen, you will get either the sub or the mains. But with something like this sub woofer you can with your current receiver. Running the speaker cables through the high level inputs. http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html Pretty sweet sub for the price. PDF on the hook uphttp://www.hsuresearch.com/products/manual/stf.pdf

So my suggestion is, if you have a local stereo shop that carries new and used equipment, that is your best option. You tell them what you have and what you want.
If that isn't an option, getting a sub that is powered and has a built in crossover like the one I linked above and using the old receiver. Getting a sound card might fix the static problem but it could be something else.

Volume wise and for rock music , the KEFs and a sub combo will work well. The sub, if properly configured will take most the load off the KEFs so they can produce good highs and midrange. The KEFs you have now should be able to produce some decent volume and clarity if for some reason they aren't, some drivers might be bad, figuring they are at least 30 years plus old.

Happy listening, the Prisoner...