News TSMC’s EUV machines are equipped with a remote self-destruct in case of an invasion

[Admin]

ASML and TSMC have added kill switches to advanced EUV lithography machines to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands.

TSMC’s EUV machines are equipped with a remote self-destruct in case of an invasion : Read more

 

[Notton]

The first rule of remote self-destruct devices is to not mention it openly.
Now it's a security risk if someone hacks into it.
Unless we are playing some 4D-chess mind games and there isn't one...

 

[usertests]

The first rule of remote self-destruct devices is to not mention it openly.
Now it's a security risk if someone hacks into it.
Unless we are playing some 4D-chess mind games and there isn't one...

Depends on the trigger mechanism.

For their purposes, they probably want the relevant party to know:

 

[AngelusF]

Chinese invasion fleet sets sail.
ASML machines self-destruct.
Invasion fleet turns back, job done.

 

[Dante'sfired]

So all the Chinese have to do it figure out how to Faraday cage the kill switch with a commando team before the invasion and they bypass the kill switch.

However without ASML support the Chinese will have to re engineer one of the most expensive and complicate machines the world has ever produced. All the parts they need will be impossible to get- ASML controls the entire process of building the machine

 

[ivan_vy]

China no need for takeover TSMC but to disable the supply chain for US chips.
this is more fear mongering, warhawks are fanning the flames of war, China is producing cheap 14 and 16nm,soon mass producing 7nm and 5nm, not every consumer need cutting edge tech. Military industrial complex are eager for the next big conflict. War is not good for everyone else.

 

[endocine]

If the machines are so sensitive, why export them to anyone in the first place? Its not like China doesn't already have thru industrial espionage all the plans for the machines anyway

 

[ingtar33]

The first rule of remote self-destruct devices is to not mention it openly.
Now it's a security risk if someone hacks into it.
Unless we are playing some 4D-chess mind games and there isn't one...

no, this is deterrence.

the fear Taiwan lives under is invasion from mainland China. the fear the USA lives under is all those chip fabs falling into Chinese hands. this "deterrence" serves both Taiwan and US interests. And there is no point to installing these devices if you don't plan to let the chicoms know about them. else they'll lose their value as deterrence.

one of the few things keeping the Chinese back is the fear the chicoms have of destroying the chip making infrastructure in the invasion. those fabs are worth way more to China then Taiwan itself.

besides i doubt there is actually a kill switch for this. i'm willing to bet the US military plans to turn all of Taiwan's fabs into craters in the ground in the event of a Chinese invasion. So while the kill switch probably doesn't exist the lie of it's existence serves the same purpose. especially since the USA probably has plenty of plans for how to turn those fabs into craters.

 

[ingtar33]

If the machines are so sensitive, why export them to anyone in the first place? Its not like China doesn't already have thru industrial espionage all the plans for the machines anyway

we don't export them. these machines were developed by Taiwan

in fact Taiwan has secured US military support by enforcing US trade embargos against allowing any chip making tech making it to china.

the "cold war" over chips has been raging since the 80s... and it's a fascinating one. Taiwan saw chip making business as it's key to national security, so they've made themselves the world leaders in chip fabs, and then mercilessly enforced US trade sanctions and embargos against china in order to become a strategic partner with the USA.

China no need for takeover TSMC but to disable the supply chain for US chips.
this is more fear mongering, warhawks are fanning the flames of war, China is producing cheap 14 and 16nm,soon mass producing 7nm and 5nm, not every consumer need cutting edge tech. Military industrial complex are eager for the next big conflict. War is not good for everyone else.

china's chip fabs are <Mod Edit> in comparison to TSMC, they have major need for that tech. and unlike american fabs, where i doubt security is taken seriously, in Taiwan it's treason with a death penalty attached for leaking any of this information to mainland china. Taiwan knows it's security, assured by the USA, is highly dependent on how seriously they work to prevent chip fab eq or knowledge getting to mainland china. so they take is very seriously.

 

[Makaveli]

The first rule of remote self-destruct devices is to not mention it openly.
Now it's a security risk if someone hacks into it.
Unless we are playing some 4D-chess mind games and there isn't one...

This.

they better hope that cannot be hacked because some script kiddie will blow up TSMC for the lulz.

 

[palladin9479]

no, this is deterrence.

the fear Taiwan lives under is invasion from mainland China. the fear the USA lives under is all those chip fabs falling into Chinese hands. this "deterrence" serves both Taiwan and US interests. And there is no point to installing these devices if you don't plan to let the chicoms know about them. else they'll lose their value as deterrence.

one of the few things keeping the Chinese back is the fear the chicoms have of destroying the chip making infrastructure in the invasion. those fabs are worth way more to China then Taiwan itself.

besides i doubt there is actually a kill switch for this. i'm willing to bet the US military plans to turn all of Taiwan's fabs into craters in the ground in the event of a Chinese invasion. So while the kill switch probably doesn't exist the lie of it's existence serves the same purpose. especially since the USA probably has plenty of plans for how to turn those fabs into craters.

Oh the remote slag capability definitely exists and is easy to implement. Small amount of thermite in critical locations with a trigger tied to a long access code that can only be sent over a secure network, and secure as in no internet connection.

And yes it's a deterrent, as long as there is even a small chance those ridiculously expensive and exclusive devices from ASML (based in Netherlands) will self destruct, China will not take any offensive action.

That region is so critical to US National Defense that an entire fleet has been permanently forward deployed to that region. 7th Fleet contains CTF70/CSG5 which has enough firepower to flatten a small country and give a medium / large country a serious heartburn with two Guided Missile Cruisers and nine Guided Missile Destroyers. The cruisers each contain 122 missile pods and each pod contains a missile that can have 12~16 warheads. Each destroyer carries 96 of the same missile system. There are also an unspecified number of submarines assigned to that group that are also equipped with that same missile system. An unspecified number of those devices are nuclear equipped. CTF70/CSG5 is probably the most overequipped unit on the planet.

https://www.surfpac.navy.mil/Ships/Carrier-Strike-Group-5-COMCARSTRKGRU-FIVE/About-Us/

 

[JamesJones44]

we don't export them. these machines were developed by Taiwan

The lithography machines are not developed or manufactured by TSMC. They are made by ASML in various parts of the world including the Netherlands, US and Taiwan.

 

[palladin9479]

The lithography machines are not developed or manufactured by TSMC. They are made by ASML in various parts of the world including the Netherlands, US and Taiwan.

ASML makes the lithography machines, TSMC takes those machines and develops a fabrication process around them. It requires both of those things put together to get a successful microprocessing chip made. Intel has access to the same ASML devices that TSMC did but got stuck at 12nm for a very long time.

 

[helper800]

ASML makes the lithography machines, TSMC takes those machines and develops a fabrication process around them. It requires both of those things put together to get a successful microprocessing chip made. Intel has access to the same ASML devices that TSMC did but got stuck at 12nm for a very long time.

Not to mention the rare earth gasses that are consumables sourced from around the world. The supply chain alone for the machines and the fabbing is global.

 

[oofdragon]

Just theater. The real fabs are under

 

[JTWrenn]

The first rule of remote self-destruct devices is to not mention it openly.
Now it's a security risk if someone hacks into it.
Unless we are playing some 4D-chess mind games and there isn't one...

Deterrents don't work if the person or thing you are trying to deter doesn't know it exists. I do agree there are too many details here but I bet the only reason we are hearing about it is that China found out about it somehow. So they leaked it.

 

[usertests]

Just theater. The real fabs are under

Underwater, using UAP technology.

 

[JamesJones44]

ASML makes the lithography machines, TSMC takes those machines and develops a fabrication process around them. It requires both of those things put together to get a successful microprocessing chip made. Intel has access to the same ASML devices that TSMC did but got stuck at 12nm for a very long time.

Some of that was a design decision by Intel. They didn't want to jump into EUV with 10 nm and chose to go a different path and it cost them. Now that they are on the EUV train they are catching up.

I'm not disagreeing that TSMC's own processes are in play as well, but China would be likely be happy just getting their hands on the latest equipment from all of the chip equipment manufactures as well. Right now the biggest road block in China is getting equipment for smaller fabrications.

 

[palladin9479]

Some of that was a design decision by Intel. They didn't want to jump into EUV with 10 nm and chose to go a different path and it cost them. Now that they are on the EUV train they are catching up.

I'm not disagreeing that TSMC's own processes are in play as well, but China would be likely be happy just getting their hands on the latest equipment from all of the chip equipment manufactures as well. Right now the biggest road block in China is getting equipment for smaller fabrications.

ASML will not sell to China due to China's flagrant disregard for international intellectual property. Right now Chinese manufacturers can only get older etching systems through the second hand market.

The point was that while ASLM is responsible for developing the laser etching technology, TSMC, Intel, Samsung and the rest are responsible for developing fabrication techniques involving that laser technology. It takes the combination of all these technologies to create a final product.

 

[Flayed]

If the conflict in Ukraine is anything to go by the whole place will get leveled with bombs, shells, and missiles anyway.

 

[ThomasKinsley]

What did I just read. On the one hand we're told China is 10 years away from Western tech and everything is obsolete. On the other hand there's kill switches, invasions, and China ready to devour 2nm tech.

 

[ingtar33]

What did I just read. On the one hand we're told China is 10 years away from Western tech and everything is obsolete. On the other hand there's kill switches, invasions, and China ready to devour 2nm tech.

the Chinese have been building toward and planning to take back Taiwan for almost 80 years now. for the first 40 of those years Taiwan used the cold war to protect themselves. allowing the US to build naval bases and in general siding with the west, all while militarizing their island and counting on the chinese inability to mount a large enough amphibious assault to take the island.

The thawing of Chinese - American relations with the Nixon administration served as a massive wakeup call to Taipei and they realized that just giving the USA base space wasn't enough to guarantee their safety. they eventually landed on the semiconductor and chip fabrication industries, realizing there was strategic value in being a world leader in these things. They took note of the US cosey relationship with japan mostly, and figured if they could build their economic power in a strategically important field they might make themselves valuable enough to not be given away in a trade deal with china.

The end of the cold war only intensified their efforts and they succeeded to make themselves a technological hotspot. a place on the cutting edge of computer technology. so important the USA considers the possible loss of Taiwan to china an unacceptable loss. That said they're fully aware they're "allowed" by the USA to produce those chips. and the only way the USA will "allow" them to be that strategically important to the USA, is if they closely and proactively guard the US strategic trade secrets, and so they have.

because Taiwan does a better job of chip security then the US or the rest of the world, the US hasn't even considered moving the fabs or tech out of the nation.

 

[JamesJones44]

The point was that while ASLM is responsible for developing the laser etching technology, TSMC, Intel, Samsung and the rest are responsible for developing fabrication techniques involving that laser technology. It takes the combination of all these technologies to create a final product.

I'm agreeing with you on this point.

My point was there is a lot more at stake than just what TSMC does. The tooling which enables these foundries is every bit as valuable to China. They would need to do more work than just flipping a switch, but it would allow them to move forward where right now they have to wait until they can develop their own tooling pipelines.

 

[JamesJones44]

I really hope US military does that and China retaliates with nukes. I am sick of USA bullying around the planet as if they own it.

Dumbest comment I ever read.

You do realize that either country launching nukes likely ends civilization for EVERYONE. If China launched nukes the US would retaliate. The US has about 10x the nukes China does and would likely use a large chunk of them in a reality attack. The fallout alone would likely mean Nuclear Winter for the most of the globe, reducing food, water and energy supplies globally. Finally there would be large potential of escalation as a power vacuum and resource scarcity would occur. Russia could try to take advantage of the moment and invade Europe causing a 2nd nuclear war. India might use the opportunity to finish China off once and for good and then maybe Pakistan takes a calculated risk to attacks India, Iran could try to go after Israel with the US out of the way and Israel could lunch more nukes, etc. etc. etc.

I don't see any scenario where Russia, the US or China gets into a Nuclear war that doesn't end badly for everyone in the world.

 

[USAFRet]

Sigh...

As usual, threads like this devolve into political mudslinging

As such, closing this with no specific prejudice to any individual participant here.