News TSMC gets $6.6 billion in cash and $5 billion in loans from CHIPS Act, plans third US fab

[Admin]

TSMC is set to expand its plans in Arizona and invest $65 billion in the manufacturing site.

TSMC gets $6.6 billion in cash and $5 billion in loans from CHIPS Act, plans third US fab : Read more

 

[oofdragon]

Guys.. legit question here. When the government says "10M to build this small bridge" everyone knows a lot of that money goes to someones pocket instead od funding the bridge, like, a lot. Now, yes I don't know anything about how much does it cost to build a fab, but, isn't 1B a LOT of money? You know , one thousand times 1M, and Im pretty sure 1M can build like almost anything? So.. 65B? Rally? 6B gift? I mean

 

[oofdragon]

And another legit question... here in my country UBER is making a lot of money with rides. But, UBER is a USA company right? Why don't my government country simply start its own riding app and get ride of Uber?? And I'm asking this because, why does the USA government NEED tsmc?? Rlly, does it? I think tsmc is USA funded from beginning no matter what you tell me, but even looking at it as a foreign chip maker how does it make sense that the great USA needs a foreigner tech? It's USA bro, they got the aliens tech (and spy agencies)

 

[Dustyboy1492]

Guys.. legit question here. When the government says "10M to build this small bridge" everyone knows a lot of that money goes to someones pocket instead od funding the bridge, like, a lot. Now, yes I don't know anything about how much does it cost to build a fab, but, isn't 1B a LOT of money? You know , one thousand times 1M, and Im pretty sure 1M can build like almost anything? So.. 65B? Rally? 6B gift? I mean

Nobody is pocketing the money. Taiwan is at real risk of being invaded/blockaded by the PRC. Rebuilding the semiconductor manufacturing base in the US is a national security issue.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Guys.. legit question here. When the government says "10M to build this small bridge" everyone knows a lot of that money goes to someones pocket instead od funding the bridge, like, a lot. Now, yes I don't know anything about how much does it cost to build a fab, but, isn't 1B a LOT of money? You know , one thousand times 1M, and Im pretty sure 1M can build like almost anything? So.. 65B? Rally? 6B gift? I mean

It takes around $30B to build a leading-edge fab from scratch. That's why there's only 3 players in the game. The barrier to entry is extremely expensive. A new company starting up and building it's own facility is going to be pretty much impossible.

 

[The_Future_Is_Here]

And another legit question... here in my country UBER is making a lot of money with rides. But, UBER is a USA company right? Why don't my government country simply start its own riding app and get ride of Uber?? And I'm asking this because, why does the USA government NEED tsmc?? Rlly, does it? I think tsmc is USA funded from beginning no matter what you tell me, but even looking at it as a foreign chip maker how does it make sense that the great USA needs a foreigner tech? It's USA bro, they got the aliens tech (and spy agencies)

"How does it make sense that the great USA needs a foreigner tech?"

Well, I hate to break it too you but much of the world's greatest modern innovations do not solely revolve around people born within the USA.
Without people traversing the globe a lot of knowledge found in the 19th, 20th, & 21st Centuries would be limited to just a select number of Western Nations for the most part.


Their is a HUGE global reliance on a very minimal number of semiconductor manufacturers, and the largest of those is TSMC, and due to CURRENT geopolitical divisions their is a great concern that the Peoples Republic of China may attempt to invade or at the very least blockade Taiwan, and in doing so attempt to stop any exports of any products out of Taiwan to the rest of the world which would include computer chips produced within semiconductor facilities owned by TSMC.


Additionally it's possible that if Taiwan did get blocked off from the rest of the world then all of that additional knowledge found within the organisation would also end up being restricted to just China, providing a unstable balance in terms of semiconductor and micro processor accessibility reliability which is of HUGE concern to both the general public in the rest of the world (especially the USA) and the US Military who have advanced modern equipment which in some small way relies on a wider network of everyday essential things like cars, trucks, microwaves, etc that all utilize chips manufactured by TSMC in Taiwan currently.

The CHIPS act is the USA trying do diversify the manufacturing & expertise of these semiconductor manufacturers and ensuring that if anything was to happen between the PRC & Taiwan then the USA would not be out into dire circumstances with no possible short term solution outside of defending Taiwan against the PRC, a conflict that NOBODY wants to happen.

Also, other technology that the USA got from foreigners was essentially what became NASA, and indirectly the Manhattan Project, or the Jet Engine, and their are numerous other examples of the USA being heavily reliant on technology developed abroad, you only need to look around the average American Town or City to see that.

 

[vern72]

I'm surprised that these types of factories are being set up in Arizona. Don't they need a lot of water?

 

[umeng2002_2]

I'm surprised that these types of factories are being set up in Arizona. Don't they need a lot of water?

Maybe not for EUV processes?

 

[DavidMV]

I'm surprised that these types of factories are being set up in Arizona. Don't they need a lot of water?

Intel paved the way in Arizona with all of their large fabs there. They recycle most of the water. TSMC is going to do the same.

 

[KyaraM]

And another legit question... here in my country UBER is making a lot of money with rides. But, UBER is a USA company right? Why don't my government country simply start its own riding app and get ride of Uber?? And I'm asking this because, why does the USA government NEED tsmc?? Rlly, does it? I think tsmc is USA funded from beginning no matter what you tell me, but even looking at it as a foreign chip maker how does it make sense that the great USA needs a foreigner tech? It's USA bro, they got the aliens tech (and spy agencies)

Because the US isn't the center of the universe, or the only developed country in the world, and other places have great and highly advanced tech, too. Fun fact, a lot of the equipment for these chip making processes comes from Europe; nuclear fusion reactors are currently researched around the world as well, which should give you a clue about what countries are on a certain, comparable tech level. Lastly, as others pointed out, there aren't many players in this market and establishing a new one is nearly impossible because it is so expensive with lots of expensive machinery needed. Not everything can be built for 1 mil, a lot of stuff is actually a lot more expensive nowadays.

Besides all that, we live in a globalized world, where a single country does not hold all the cards in its hand and exchange is essentially required, thank goodness. And please, keep out the tinfoil hat theories about alien tech...

 

[umeng2002_2]

ASML made itself party to certain US sanctions as part of the condition of their acquisition of certain US lithography technology. The US government allowed the export of that technology on the condition that they had that sanction power. The US wasn't totally dumb enough to let any foreign company come in willy Billy and buy up US tech.

Other than Arm, most of chip designers are American companies. Ask those other countries why they aren't designing competing chips. Why doesn't the EU have internet companies like the US? It all gets bogged down in regulations and tax policy.

 

[Eximo]

Guys.. legit question here. When the government says "10M to build this small bridge" everyone knows a lot of that money goes to someones pocket instead od funding the bridge, like, a lot. Now, yes I don't know anything about how much does it cost to build a fab, but, isn't 1B a LOT of money? You know , one thousand times 1M, and Im pretty sure 1M can build like almost anything? So.. 65B? Rally? 6B gift? I mean

A few things you missed. Scale and personnel.

A small building for 1 million dollars, sure. Maybe a warehouse or a 10 office complex or a few tenant strip mall. A building housing automated fabrication machines and all its support structure, billions is an understatement. You have to think concrete, steel/aluminum, welding, HVAC, filtration (air and water) for clean rooms, warehousing (in/out), shipping, wiring/power, utilities (that power, water, etc don't come from nowhere), land purchase, environmental impact studies....

Now construction people have to be paid and building materials purchased. Architects and industrial engineers for the facility inside and out have to be paid, talking many millions and thousands of man hours to design such a facility. Inspections and permits aren't free.

Attracting workers, training, travel, etc. This will take a lot of money to do while there is absolutely no revenue stream. If you take the average US salary for workers in Arizona times the expected employees (12,000) then you get just shy of 1 billion dollars in salary alone, average, not what some of these high paid experts will be getting. Now that is once it is operational. Right now it is construction companies and consulting firms who are intending to make a profit, so they charge a lot more than you would think.

TSMC does about 360 billion in revenue, not profit. If a lot of money wasn't thrown at the problem, there wouldn't be enough of an incentive for them to take the risk.

Now, what does the government get out of this. Secure line of chips fabs within their borders. And eventually tax revenue from all the workers, tax revenue from the people who support them (restaurants, shopping, etc). And eventually tax directly from the business once their tax abatement ends. Government will lose some import tariffs though.


I work in the public sector with lowest bidders, and even the smallest jobs cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Any significant project can easily be measured in the tens of millions of dollars.