News TSMC's Arizona Fab Hiring Woes Prompt Calls for Willing Taiwanese Migrants

[Admin]

Hiring difficulties are probably due to a combination of asking US natives to train in Taiwan for up to a year, and the competitive tech labor market in Arizona.

TSMC's Arizona Fab Hiring Woes Prompt Calls for Willing Taiwanese Migrants : Read more

 

[peachpuff]

I dunno... west taiwan is a bit cooky, wouldn't want to spend a year there. A week or two sure, but anything more is lunacy.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Wow. You want to pay so low you can't get local high-school kids that natively speak English to work there, so you're going to import slave labor high school kids from Taiwan? Yeah, lets stock our leading-edge fab with the absolute cheapest personnel we can find. That's going to fly like a lead balloon.

Meanwhile you need a minimum of a BS in STEM-related fields to be considered for an entry level position at Intel and they have no problems finding workers. Amazing.

 

[DougMcC]

Wow. You want to pay so low you can't get local high-school kids that natively speak English to work there, so you're going to import slave labor high school kids from Taiwan? Yeah, lets stock our leading-edge fab with the absolute cheapest personnel we can find. That's going to fly like a lead balloon.

Meanwhile you need a minimum of a BS in STEM-related fields to be considered for an entry level position at Intel and they have no problems finding workers. Amazing.

Came to say roughly the same ... raise wages you <removed>. Qualified people will work for money. The H1B situation in tech just gets worse and worse.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Right? I mean, has anyone explained to TSMC that we have minimum wage laws? That's an honest question. They don't seem to understand that they have to actually follow the laws in the USA. They appear to be used to special preferential treatment and just assume they can do things how they always do.

Well that isn't going to work my friend. You can't pay pennies a day and demand that money back in exchange for a cot on the factory floor. You actually have to pay people and let them go home after so many hours.

 

[Michaeltc16]

Thats some BS. I'm Taiwanese American with 8 years manufacturing experience with two U.S. college degrees currently working 60 hour weeks and all my applications to TSMC were quickly rejected, even the entry level positions. I can get to the interview phase easily at other companies but maybe TSMC algorithm is screening me out.

I dont know if it happens at TSMC, but some companies have HR and hiring managers who reject qualified applicants so they can hire their unqualified friends and relatives for that job, then tell the senior supervisor that their relatives/friends were the only one who pass the screening process.

 

[drigondii]

Might have something to do with how many Americans are quitting over unsafe working conditions, abusive work environments, and the company’s general habit of treating its employees like property rather than people. Complaints have been circulating among the US hires that they (tsmc) largely do not have the intention of even obeying the laws for labor and safety, let alone maintaining a healthy or sustainable work culture.

 

[KananX]

Might have something to do with how many Americans are quitting over unsafe working conditions, abusive work environments, and the company’s general habit of treating its employees like property rather than people. Complaints have been circulating among the US hires that they (tsmc) largely do not have the intention of even obeying the laws for labor and safety, let alone maintaining a healthy or sustainable work culture.

They obviously can’t do that and are forced to adhere to the regional law. But it’s really puzzling to me that they don’t have high standards for recruiting people, if wages are that low.

 

[Umfriend]

So with all these accusations against TSMC of trying to import low-wage labor from Taiwan, has anyone checked how much TSMC is actually paying for these positions in Arizona? Looking at https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=TSMC+...Lq38Fil_plk8iaQmIbTksvhWDzkf6WJcaAuCREALw_wcB, it doesn't seem that bad to me actually.

 

[DuncanStives]

Wow. You want to pay so low you can't get local high-school kids that natively speak English to work there, so you're going to import slave labor high school kids from Taiwan? Yeah, lets stock our leading-edge fab with the absolute cheapest personnel we can find. That's going to fly like a lead balloon.

Meanwhile you need a minimum of a BS in STEM-related fields to be considered for an entry level position at Intel and they have no problems finding workers. Amazing.

Buddy the article literally said the issue was the requirement to travel to Taiwan which you seem to be confusing with China... Taiwan has reletively high wages... Also I wouldn't hold up anything Intel is doing as an example to be followed. They are currently about 3 years behind the curve on advanced semiconductor fabrication. In fact TMSC makes 92% of the worlds 5nm node stuff with the remaining 8% coming from Samsung in SK. The fact that we have allowed our nation to fall so far behind in SC fabrication is a national embarrassment and a HUGE strategic blunder. Anything that gets domestic capabilities built up should surely be a top priority of the USA (imagine the scale of the supply chain crisis if China invades and the war shuts down the fabs?? Make what we have seen so far look like a joke).

I were the president anyone and everyone with provable expertise in the fabrication of advanced semiconductors would be granted a full citizenship effective immediately upon arrival, have all travel and relocation expenses paid to bring them and their families to the US and receive job placement assistance and a stipend sufficient to live in comfort for 3 months to give them time to find a job they are happy with. This would be paid out of the defense budget due to the stratigic importance of this issue (and I should note that it would not amount to a hill of beans compared to everything else we spend money on).

Russia's tank factories are already idled due to lack of semiconductor components just weeks after losing access to international suppliers right when they are needed most. Silicone makes the modern world operate... It is literally impossible to overstate the stratigic importance of these components and yet as a nation we have allowed our entire supply chain to become concentrated in one unstable region half a world away... Arrogantly assuming that because most advanced DESIGNS come from the US that actual manufacturing is somehow beneath us. I guarantee if CPC troops start showing up on the shores of Taiwan that idea will be out the window and fast... By this point it will be WAY too late. The Western world would find they have literally no choice but to defend the country... WWIII Speedrun and there are no winners.

 

[jkflipflop98]

So with all these accusations against TSMC of trying to import low-wage labor from Taiwan, has anyone checked how much TSMC is actually paying for these positions in Arizona? Looking at https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=TSMC+...Lq38Fil_plk8iaQmIbTksvhWDzkf6WJcaAuCREALw_wcB, it doesn't seem that bad to me actually.

Those wages are abysmally low for the industry. The absolute top end of the pay range of a technician is $54k a year according to your link. Technicians at the Intel plant down the street start at $70k a year. A PHd level chemical engineer with a top end of $95k a year? That's peanuts.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Buddy the article literally said the issue was the requirement to travel blah blah blah

Buddy you seem to be confused. Your post has nothing to do with my post.

 

[KananX]

yet as a nation we have allowed our entire supply chain to become concentrated in one unstable region half a world away... Arrogantly assuming that because most advanced DESIGNS come from the US that actual manufacturing is somehow beneath us. I guarantee if CPC troops start showing up on the shores of Taiwan that idea will be out the window and fast... By this point it will be WAY too late. The Western world would find they have literally no choice but to defend the country... WWIII Speedrun and there are no winners.

This is real tech comedy, it has nothing to do with “allowed” to become anything, <Mod Edit> happens if you get arrogant because being a bit ahead of everyone else and then starting to do huge mistakes. This is how Intel 10nm failed and how they lost many years to fall behind TSMC for the first time and as a result of it AMD as well. Actually you can comfortably say that TSMC is the only semiconductor company that never made a big blunder because Samsung already did many as well. Save to say that the Asians are more talented when it comes to things like these. It’s pure arrogance to think it was “allowed”, that’s probably the same arrogance that put Intels 10nm into shambles. TSMC would’ve eventually catched up anyway. Best case, Intel would be on 7nm now (their “5nm”) which isn’t ahead of TSMC at all, they are ready to put out 3nm this year.

 

[drigondii]

They obviously can’t do that and are forced to adhere to the regional law. But it’s really puzzling to me that they don’t have high standards for recruiting people, if wages are that low.

tsmc is not accustomed to being forced to adhere to regional law. The majority of its high technology operations are in Taiwan, where the company is responsible for >30% of the GDP. In Taiwan, tsmc is untouchable. Anyone who tries is blacklisted.

 

[drigondii]

Those wages are abysmally low for the industry. The absolute top end of the pay range of a technician is $54k a year according to your link. Technicians at the Intel plant down the street start at $70k a year. A PHd level chemical engineer with a top end of $95k a year? That's peanuts.

I can assure you that they are not actually paying poorly. For the majority of US hires still in the program (attrition is accelerating), pay rises, bonuses, and other monetary incentives are the key ingredient. The ROC employees get quarterly bonuses, mind-boggling amounts of overtime, and many other killer benefits that keep them in jobs that treat them very poorly. The majority of their pay can often be overtime and bonuses, which do not factor into their posted "salary". Most of the cars in those parking garages are BMWs, Teslas, and other fancy cars. Money is not a problem. Also, most of the US hires were denied their "target" bonuses and pay increases for a "secret S-" performance rating, where they appear to have met all measures for the performance target but are penalized by 25% of their bonus for not "working like a Taiwanese," and even then most are staying because the money is that good, and leaving is that hard. The trainees are looking at being fined 15-25k USD for leaving the company, too, which does impact the financial equation, but all the technicians I worked with were quite happy with their pay, as were the EEs, PEs, etc. A lot got lured away from their former companies with 20+% pay increases. Money isn't a problem.

 

[drigondii]

Thats some BS. I'm Taiwanese American with 8 years manufacturing experience with two U.S. college degrees currently working 60 hour weeks and all my applications to TSMC were quickly rejected, even the entry level positions. I can get to the interview phase easily at other companies but maybe TSMC algorithm is screening me out.

I dont know if it happens at TSMC, but some companies have HR and hiring managers who reject qualified applicants so they can hire their unqualified friends and relatives for that job, then tell the senior supervisor that their relatives/friends were the only one who pass the screening process.

TSMC doesn't want someone who knows from experience that 100+ hr workweeks are not normal for every week throughout the industry, especially since they have their EEs officially classed as exempt employees but are using them for extensive hours of manual labor daily on live equipment with little to no LOTO and are trucking many of them on hr+ one-way daily commutes to company dorms where tsmc controls nearly every aspect of even home life. The last thing they need is someone who can help the US employees communicate openly with the Taiwanese employees about the disparities in training quality, safety standards, and work conditions and bring the standards they're deliberately avoiding in Taiwan TO the Taiwan fabs. Also, a lot of tsmc Taiwan employees want the AZ fab to fail because it keeps those jobs in Taiwan for the foreseeable future, whereas if it succeeds, a lot of the high tech, high pay opportunities outsource to the USA.

 

[KananX]

tsmc is not accustomed to being forced to adhere to regional law. The majority of its high technology operations are in Taiwan, where the company is responsible for >30% of the GDP. In Taiwan, tsmc is untouchable. Anyone who tries is blacklisted.

Okay triple post Andy, it doesn’t really matter though, since US isn’t Taiwan, you get that right? No it will not happen.

 

[TJ Hooker]

So with all these accusations against TSMC of trying to import low-wage labor from Taiwan, has anyone checked how much TSMC is actually paying for these positions in Arizona? Looking at https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=TSMC+...Lq38Fil_plk8iaQmIbTksvhWDzkf6WJcaAuCREALw_wcB, it doesn't seem that bad to me actually.

The dollar values listed there are just auto-generated guesses made by Indeed. The postings don't actually list what the jobs pay.