Two partition tables on one hard drive?

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

I'm totally baffled by the problems I'm having setting up a second
hard drive (120 GB Maxtor)on my HP Pavilion 8575C with Windows 98SE.
I'm trying to set up one primary partition (D:), and two logical
partitions (E: and F:), all about 40GB.

If I partition the drive using Partition Magic 8, it seems to be fine
in Windows, but MS-DOS (reboot to MS-DOS mode) says the E: and F:
partitions are invalid. If I wipe the disk, reboot to DOS, and use
fdisk to create the partitions, then format, DOS and Windows Safe Mode
are happy, but regular Windows says E: and F: are using MS-DOS
compatibility mode, and refuses to use them.

I then tried Maxtor Maxblast to wipe the disk and create new
partitions. Windows saw all three partitions OK, but Windows Safe
Mode and MS-DOS complained about E: and F: again.

I tried rebooting to MS-DOS mode and used fdisk again, without
clearing anything. Now MS-DOS says I have D:, E:, and F:, Windows says
I have D:, E:, F:, G:, and H: (with E: and F: invalid), Partition
Magic says I have D:, G:, and H:, and Partinfo says it's D:, E:, and
F:.

Where are all these tools getting different ideas about the partition
table, and why does none of them cross-check the (apparent) different
ways of finding out what the partition table contains? (Perhaps that's
just a philosophical question.) I ran a Norton Antivirus Pro 2004
system scan from the CD, ran Ad-Aware, Spybot search-and-destroy, and
PC-Pitstop's system check, with no serious problems found by any of
them.

Any suggestions which have a reasonable chance of working?
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In article <f2105a7e.0404181611.16762100
@posting.google.com>, cgweppler@hotmail.com says...
> I'm totally baffled by the problems I'm having setting up a second
> hard drive (120 GB Maxtor)on my HP Pavilion 8575C with Windows 98SE.
> I'm trying to set up one primary partition (D:), and two logical
> partitions (E: and F:), all about 40GB.
>
> If I partition the drive using Partition Magic 8, it seems to be fine
> in Windows, but MS-DOS (reboot to MS-DOS mode) says the E: and F:
> partitions are invalid. If I wipe the disk, reboot to DOS, and use
> fdisk to create the partitions, then format, DOS and Windows Safe Mode
> are happy, but regular Windows says E: and F: are using MS-DOS
> compatibility mode, and refuses to use them.
>

(puts on stupid-hat)

Er, what's "booting to MS-DOS mode"?

Just kidding... I didn't expect that MS-DOS would even
be able to see a partition larger then 32GB. (Last time
I booted to MS-DOS was back when I was still running
WinNT 4.)

> I then tried Maxtor Maxblast to wipe the disk and create new
> partitions. Windows saw all three partitions OK, but Windows Safe
> Mode and MS-DOS complained about E: and F: again.
>
> I tried rebooting to MS-DOS mode and used fdisk again, without
> clearing anything. Now MS-DOS says I have D:, E:, and F:, Windows says
> I have D:, E:, F:, G:, and H: (with E: and F: invalid), Partition
> Magic says I have D:, G:, and H:, and Partinfo says it's D:, E:, and
> F:.
>
> Where are all these tools getting different ideas about the partition
> table, and why does none of them cross-check the (apparent) different
> ways of finding out what the partition table contains? (Perhaps that's
> just a philosophical question.) I ran a Norton Antivirus Pro 2004
> system scan from the CD, ran Ad-Aware, Spybot search-and-destroy, and
> PC-Pitstop's system check, with no serious problems found by any of
> them.
>
> Any suggestions which have a reasonable chance of working?
>
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On 18 Apr 2004 17:11:23 -0700, cgweppler@hotmail.com (Charles Weppler)
wrote:

>I'm totally baffled by the problems I'm having setting up a second
>hard drive (120 GB Maxtor)on my HP Pavilion 8575C with Windows 98SE.
>I'm trying to set up one primary partition (D:), and two logical
>partitions (E: and F:), all about 40GB.
>
>If I partition the drive using Partition Magic 8, it seems to be fine
>in Windows, but MS-DOS (reboot to MS-DOS mode) says the E: and F:
>partitions are invalid. If I wipe the disk, reboot to DOS, and use
>fdisk to create the partitions, then format, DOS and Windows Safe Mode
>are happy, but regular Windows says E: and F: are using MS-DOS
>compatibility mode, and refuses to use them.
>
>I then tried Maxtor Maxblast to wipe the disk and create new
>partitions. Windows saw all three partitions OK, but Windows Safe
>Mode and MS-DOS complained about E: and F: again.
>
>I tried rebooting to MS-DOS mode and used fdisk again, without
>clearing anything. Now MS-DOS says I have D:, E:, and F:, Windows says
>I have D:, E:, F:, G:, and H: (with E: and F: invalid), Partition
>Magic says I have D:, G:, and H:, and Partinfo says it's D:, E:, and
>F:.
>
>Where are all these tools getting different ideas about the partition
>table, and why does none of them cross-check the (apparent) different
>ways of finding out what the partition table contains? (Perhaps that's
>just a philosophical question.) I ran a Norton Antivirus Pro 2004
>system scan from the CD, ran Ad-Aware, Spybot search-and-destroy, and
>PC-Pitstop's system check, with no serious problems found by any of
>them.
>
>Any suggestions which have a reasonable chance of working?

MS produced a revised version of FDISK.EXE for disks larger than 64GB
(and smaller than 137GB).

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;263044

It's 64460 bytes, dated 18 May 2000. Are you using that under the
MS-DOS startup mode?
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Is the drive type set to AUTO in BIOS? Is the disk geometry C=15xzy H=255
S=63?

"Charles Weppler" <cgweppler@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f2105a7e.0404181611.16762100@posting.google.com...
> I'm totally baffled by the problems I'm having setting up a second
> hard drive (120 GB Maxtor)on my HP Pavilion 8575C with Windows 98SE.
> I'm trying to set up one primary partition (D:), and two logical
> partitions (E: and F:), all about 40GB.
>
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On 18 Apr 2004 17:11:23 -0700, cgweppler@hotmail.com (Charles Weppler)
wrote:

>Any suggestions which have a reasonable chance of working?

I did not read all details, but it sounds as the 32 GB problem. Which
is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver problem.

If you are using Via drivers from 1999, then update. Or look at

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;243450
--
Svend Olaf
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Charles Weppler wrote:

> I'm totally baffled by the problems I'm having setting up a second
> hard drive (120 GB Maxtor)on my HP Pavilion 8575C with Windows 98SE.
> I'm trying to set up one primary partition (D:), and two logical
> partitions (E: and F:), all about 40GB.
>
> If I partition the drive using Partition Magic 8, it seems to be fine
> in Windows, but MS-DOS (reboot to MS-DOS mode) says the E: and F:
> partitions are invalid. If I wipe the disk, reboot to DOS, and use
> fdisk to create the partitions, then format, DOS and Windows Safe Mode
> are happy, but regular Windows says E: and F: are using MS-DOS
> compatibility mode, and refuses to use them.
>
> I then tried Maxtor Maxblast to wipe the disk and create new
> partitions. Windows saw all three partitions OK, but Windows Safe
> Mode and MS-DOS complained about E: and F: again.
>
> I tried rebooting to MS-DOS mode and used fdisk again, without
> clearing anything. Now MS-DOS says I have D:, E:, and F:, Windows says
> I have D:, E:, F:, G:, and H: (with E: and F: invalid), Partition
> Magic says I have D:, G:, and H:, and Partinfo says it's D:, E:, and
> F:.
>
> Where are all these tools getting different ideas about the partition
> table, and why does none of them cross-check the (apparent) different
> ways of finding out what the partition table contains? (Perhaps that's
> just a philosophical question.) I ran a Norton Antivirus Pro 2004
> system scan from the CD, ran Ad-Aware, Spybot search-and-destroy, and
> PC-Pitstop's system check, with no serious problems found by any of
> them.
>
> Any suggestions which have a reasonable chance of working?

Start by verifying that the BIOS sees the HD as the full 120GB.
If the BIOS gets it wrong, all else is hopeless. If the BIOS gets
it wrong, you may need a BIOS update, or you may have the HD's jumpers
set wrong.
--
Cheers, Bob
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Toshi1873" <toshi1873@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:MPG.1aeceb2cb84d923c989869@news-50.giganews.com...
> In article <f2105a7e.0404181611.16762100
> @posting.google.com>, cgweppler@hotmail.com says...
> > I'm totally baffled by the problems I'm having setting up a second
> > hard drive (120 GB Maxtor)on my HP Pavilion 8575C with Windows 98SE.
> > I'm trying to set up one primary partition (D:), and two logical
> > partitions (E: and F:), all about 40GB.
> >
> > If I partition the drive using Partition Magic 8, it seems to be fine
> > in Windows, but MS-DOS (reboot to MS-DOS mode) says the E: and F:
> > partitions are invalid. If I wipe the disk, reboot to DOS, and use
> > fdisk to create the partitions, then format, DOS and Windows Safe Mode
> > are happy, but regular Windows says E: and F: are using MS-DOS
> > compatibility mode, and refuses to use them.
> >
>
> (puts on stupid-hat)
>
> Er, what's "booting to MS-DOS mode"?
>
> Just kidding... I didn't expect that MS-DOS would
> even be able to see a partition larger then 32GB.

Corse it can.

> (Last time I booted to MS-DOS was back
> when I was still running WinNT 4.)

> > I then tried Maxtor Maxblast to wipe the disk and create new
> > partitions. Windows saw all three partitions OK, but Windows Safe
> > Mode and MS-DOS complained about E: and F: again.
> >
> > I tried rebooting to MS-DOS mode and used fdisk again, without
> > clearing anything. Now MS-DOS says I have D:, E:, and F:, Windows says
> > I have D:, E:, F:, G:, and H: (with E: and F: invalid), Partition
> > Magic says I have D:, G:, and H:, and Partinfo says it's D:, E:, and
> > F:.
> >
> > Where are all these tools getting different ideas about the partition
> > table, and why does none of them cross-check the (apparent) different
> > ways of finding out what the partition table contains? (Perhaps that's
> > just a philosophical question.) I ran a Norton Antivirus Pro 2004
> > system scan from the CD, ran Ad-Aware, Spybot search-and-destroy, and
> > PC-Pitstop's system check, with no serious problems found by any of
> > them.
> >
> > Any suggestions which have a reasonable chance of working?
> >
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c60q1j11djv@enews4.newsguy.com
> Is the drive type set to AUTO in BIOS? Is the disk geometry C=15xzy
> H=255 S=63?

And what if it is?
It's only a completely ludicrous way of defining a capacity as it will not
have any other function.

>
> "Charles Weppler" <cgweppler@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:f2105a7e.0404181611.16762100@posting.google.com...
> > I'm totally baffled by the problems I'm having setting up a second
> > hard drive (120 GB Maxtor)on my HP Pavilion 8575C with Windows 98SE.
> > I'm trying to set up one primary partition (D:), and two logical
> > partitions (E: and F:), all about 40GB.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message
news:c61giq$75is1$3@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message
news:c60q1j11djv@enews4.newsguy.com
> > Is the drive type set to AUTO in BIOS? Is the disk geometry C=15xzy
> > H=255 S=63?
>
> And what if it is?
> It's only a completely ludicrous way of defining a capacity as it will not
> have any other function.
>
Idiot. I'm just asking if the BIOS is using the conventional geometry.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Bob Willard" <BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net> wrote in message news:yaOgc.26593$ru4.24675@attbi_s52
> Charles Weppler wrote:
>
> > I'm totally baffled by the problems I'm having setting up a second
> > hard drive (120 GB Maxtor)on my HP Pavilion 8575C with Windows 98SE.
> > I'm trying to set up one primary partition (D:), and two logical
> > partitions (E: and F:), all about 40GB.
> >
> > If I partition the drive using Partition Magic 8, it seems to be fine
> > in Windows, but MS-DOS (reboot to MS-DOS mode) says the E: and F:
> > partitions are invalid. If I wipe the disk, reboot to DOS, and use fdisk
> > to create the partitions, then format, DOS and Windows Safe Mode
> > are happy, but regular Windows says E: and F: are using MS-DOS
> > compatibility mode, and refuses to use them.
> >
> > I then tried Maxtor Maxblast to wipe the disk and create new
> > partitions. Windows saw all three partitions OK, but Windows Safe
> > Mode and MS-DOS complained about E: and F: again.
> >
> > I tried rebooting to MS-DOS mode and used fdisk again, without
> > clearing anything. Now MS-DOS says I have D:, E:, and F:, Windows
> > says I have D:, E:, F:, G:, and H: (with E: and F: invalid), Partition
> > Magic says I have D:, G:, and H:, and Partinfo says it's D:, E:, and F:.
> >
> > Where are all these tools getting different ideas about the partition
> > table, and why does none of them cross-check the (apparent) different
> > ways of finding out what the partition table contains? (Perhaps that's
> > just a philosophical question.) I ran a Norton Antivirus Pro 2004 sys-
> > tem scan from the CD, ran Ad-Aware, Spybot search-and-destroy, and
> > PC-Pitstop's system check, with no serious problems found by any of them.
> >
> > Any suggestions which have a reasonable chance of working?
>
> Start by verifying that the BIOS sees the HD as the full 120GB.

That still doesn't mean it won't have a problem.

> If the BIOS gets it wrong, all else is hopeless.

That totally depends on what it gets wrong.

> If the BIOS gets it wrong, you may need a BIOS update,

> or you may have the HD's jumpers set wrong.

A limited capacity obviously doesn't produce that above result.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c61jec12mdo@enews4.newsguy.com
> "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:c61giq$75is1$3@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c60q1j11djv@enews4.newsguy.com
> > > Is the drive type set to AUTO in BIOS?
> > >
> > > Is the disk geometry C=15xzy H=255 S=63?
> >
> > And what if it is?
> > It's only a completely ludicrous way of defining a capacity as it will not
> > have any other function.
> >
> Idiot.

Actually, "Idiot" yourself.

1. That combination is invalid for P-CHS as well as L-CHS.
L-CHS is limited to 1024 cylinders and P-CHS is limited to 16 heads
2. Both are limited to 8 GB so any other use beyond that is for
"a completely ludicrous way of defining (describing) a capacity"

> I'm just asking if the BIOS is using

> the conventional geometry.

Whatever that is supposed to mean.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:<c63c40$76r9m$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c61jec12mdo@enews4.newsguy.com
> > "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:c61giq$75is1$3@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c60q1j11djv@enews4.newsguy.com
> > > > Is the drive type set to AUTO in BIOS?

Yes.

> > > >
> > > > Is the disk geometry C=15xzy H=255 S=63?

It is 15881 Cylinders, 240 Heads, 63 Sectors/Track. It is using LBA.

> > >
> > > And what if it is?
> > > It's only a completely ludicrous way of defining a capacity as it will not
> > > have any other function.
> > >
<snip>
> 1. That combination is invalid for P-CHS as well as L-CHS.
> L-CHS is limited to 1024 cylinders and P-CHS is limited to 16 heads
> 2. Both are limited to 8 GB so any other use beyond that is for
> "a completely ludicrous way of defining (describing) a capacity"
>
> > I'm just asking if the BIOS is using
>
> > the conventional geometry.
>
> Whatever that is supposed to mean.

Earlier in the thread, Svend Olaf Mikkelsen wrote:

> I did not read all details, but it sounds as the 32 GB problem. Which
> is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver problem.
>
> If you are using Via drivers from 1999, then update. Or look at
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;243450
> --
> Svend Olaf

The behavior does not match that described in the article. When the
drive has been partitioned in Windows, ScanDisk only complains about
a few clusters on one partition. I do not know if it is using Via
drivers from 1999. How do I find out?

I should have mentioned before that my son has the same model computer
(purchased a month later), and he installed a second drive (Maxtor 60GB)
partitioned as a couple small partitions (about 7GB, to keep cluster
size down) followed by one large partition (over 40GB), and he has no
problems accessing it in Windows 98SE, Windows Safe Mode, or "reboot to
MS-DOS prompt". Unless HP made some change in that month, the BIOS and
drivers should be identical. He's actually been doing the work on this,
and telling me what to post. He's an Electrical Engineer.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On 20 Apr 2004 12:57:16 -0700, cgweppler@hotmail.com (Charles Weppler)
wrote:

>"Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:<c63c40$76r9m$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>> "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c61jec12mdo@enews4.newsguy.com
>> > "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:c61giq$75is1$3@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> > > "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c60q1j11djv@enews4.newsguy.com
>> > > > Is the drive type set to AUTO in BIOS?
>
>Yes.
>
>> > > >
>> > > > Is the disk geometry C=15xzy H=255 S=63?
>
>It is 15881 Cylinders, 240 Heads, 63 Sectors/Track. It is using LBA.
>
>> > >
>> > > And what if it is?
>> > > It's only a completely ludicrous way of defining a capacity as it will not
>> > > have any other function.
>> > >
><snip>
>> 1. That combination is invalid for P-CHS as well as L-CHS.
>> L-CHS is limited to 1024 cylinders and P-CHS is limited to 16 heads
>> 2. Both are limited to 8 GB so any other use beyond that is for
>> "a completely ludicrous way of defining (describing) a capacity"
>>
>> > I'm just asking if the BIOS is using
>>
>> > the conventional geometry.
>>
>> Whatever that is supposed to mean.
>
>Earlier in the thread, Svend Olaf Mikkelsen wrote:
>
>> I did not read all details, but it sounds as the 32 GB problem. Which
>> is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver problem.
>>
>> If you are using Via drivers from 1999, then update. Or look at
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;243450
>> --
>> Svend Olaf
>
>The behavior does not match that described in the article. When the
>drive has been partitioned in Windows, ScanDisk only complains about
>a few clusters on one partition. I do not know if it is using Via
>drivers from 1999. How do I find out?
>
>I should have mentioned before that my son has the same model computer
>(purchased a month later), and he installed a second drive (Maxtor 60GB)
>partitioned as a couple small partitions (about 7GB, to keep cluster
>size down) followed by one large partition (over 40GB), and he has no
>problems accessing it in Windows 98SE, Windows Safe Mode, or "reboot to
>MS-DOS prompt". Unless HP made some change in that month, the BIOS and
>drivers should be identical. He's actually been doing the work on this,
>and telling me what to post. He's an Electrical Engineer.

It can be the partition table disk geometry that does not match the
BIOS setting. In that case delete all partitions assuming they do not
contain data, reboot and detect the disk i BIOS, and create new
partitions. The previous description however did not quite match that
problem.

If the 32 GB problem is present, the drivers from the Microsoft page
mentioned may solve the problem.

Changing the BIOS geometry to 255 heads (LBA) may solve it too, since
the Microsoft drivers may only apply the 32 GB problem for a 240 heads
setting.

You can examine if the 32 GB problem is present by using my GB32
program in a Windows 98 DOS box. In a very few cases, the same problem
has been seen in pure DOS.

Note that from the description the 32 GB problem can be present on
your sons computer too. It is only seen if data are more than 32 GB
into the disk, in which case it will be written 32 GB lower than it
should be.

If anything else fails, then do in both DOS and Windows:

findpart all fp.txt

and post the output here. Findpart is at my page.

If Via drivers are used, the copyright date can be seen in Control
Panel/System/Device Manger. The drivers are in
\windows\system\iosubsys
--
Svend olaf
http://www.partitionsupport.com/utilities.htm
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Svend Olaf Mikkelsen" <svolaf@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message news:40859a95.7096060@dtext.news.tele.dk...
> On 20 Apr 2004 12:57:16 -0700, cgweppler@hotmail.com (Charles Weppler) wrote:
> >"Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:<c63c40$76r9m$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > > "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c61jec12mdo@enews4.newsguy.com
> > > > "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:c61giq$75is1$3@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c60q1j11djv@enews4.newsguy.com
> > > > > > Is the drive type set to AUTO in BIOS?
> >
> >Yes.
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is the disk geometry C=15xzy H=255 S=63?
> >
> > It is 15881 Cylinders, 240 Heads, 63 Sectors/Track. It is using LBA.

Nope, it will use LBAssist translation from CHS when addressed in CHS (Int13)
by older programs and the initial boot. The drive may be in CHS mode or in LBA
mode for that. LBA addressing (Int13 extensions) doesn't use CHS at all, obviously.

> >
> > > > >
> > > > > And what if it is?
> > > > > It's only a completely ludicrous way of defining a capacity as it will not
> > > > > have any other function.
> > > > >
> ><snip>
> > > 1. That combination is invalid for P-CHS as well as L-CHS.
> > > L-CHS is limited to 1024 cylinders and P-CHS is limited to 16 heads
> > > 2. Both are limited to 8 GB so any other use beyond that is for
> > > "a completely ludicrous way of defining (describing) a capacity"
> > >
> > > > I'm just asking if the BIOS is using
> > >
> > > > the conventional geometry.
> > >
> > > Whatever that is supposed to mean.
> >
> > Earlier in the thread, Svend Olaf Mikkelsen wrote:
> >
> > > I did not read all details, but it sounds as the 32 GB problem. Which
> > > is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver problem.
> > >
> > > If you are using Via drivers from 1999, then update. Or look at
> > >
> > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;243450
> > > --
> > > Svend Olaf
> >
> > The behavior does not match that described in the article. When the
> > drive has been partitioned in Windows, ScanDisk only complains about
> > a few clusters on one partition. I do not know if it is using Via drivers
> > from 1999. How do I find out?
> >
> > I should have mentioned before that my son has the same model computer
> > (purchased a month later), and he installed a second drive (Maxtor 60GB)
> > partitioned as a couple small partitions (about 7GB, to keep cluster
> > size down) followed by one large partition (over 40GB), and he has no
> > problems accessing it in Windows 98SE, Windows Safe Mode, or "reboot
> > to MS-DOS prompt". Unless HP made some change in that month, the BIOS
> > and drivers should be identical. He's actually been doing the work on this,
> > and telling me what to post. He's an Electrical Engineer.
>
> It can be the partition table disk geometry that does not match the BIOS setting.

How can it ever match the bios setting when "the partition table disk geometry"
is limited to 1023 255 63?

> In that case delete all partitions assuming they do not contain data,
> reboot and detect the disk in BIOS, and create new partitions.

> The previous description however did not quite match that problem.

And what problem is that?

>
> If the 32 GB problem is present, the drivers from the Microsoft page
> mentioned may solve the problem.
>
> Changing the BIOS geometry to 255 heads (LBA) may solve it too,

My bios doesn't even allow that. Only 'Normal' and 'Auto' do.

> since the Microsoft drivers may only apply the 32 GB problem for a
> 240 heads setting.

So maybe you should verify that?

>
> You can examine if the 32 GB problem is present by using my GB32
> program in a Windows 98 DOS box. In a very few cases, the same
> problem has been seen in pure DOS.

So, "Which is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver
problem" isn't quite right then, is it?

>
> Note that from the description the 32 GB problem can be present on
> your sons computer too. It is only seen if data are more than 32 GB into
> the disk, in which case it will be written 32 GB lower than it should be.
>
> If anything else fails, then do in both DOS and Windows:
>
> findpart all fp.txt
>
> and post the output here. Findpart is at my page.
>
> If Via drivers are used, the copyright date can be seen in Control
> Panel/System/Device Manager.
> The drivers are in \windows\system\iosubsys
> --
> Svend olaf
> http://www.partitionsupport.com/utilities.htm
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

svolaf@inet.uni2.dk (Svend Olaf Mikkelsen) wrote in message news:<40859a95.7096060@dtext.news.tele.dk>...
> On 20 Apr 2004 12:57:16 -0700, cgweppler@hotmail.com (Charles Weppler)
> wrote:
>

> >Earlier in the thread, Svend Olaf Mikkelsen wrote:
> >
> >> I did not read all details, but it sounds as the 32 GB problem. Which
> >> is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver problem.
> >>
> >> If you are using Via drivers from 1999, then update. Or look at
> >>
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;243450
> >> --
> >> Svend Olaf
> >
> >The behavior does not match that described in the article. When the
> >drive has been partitioned in Windows, ScanDisk only complains about
> >a few clusters on one partition. I do not know if it is using Via
> >drivers from 1999. How do I find out?
> >
> >I should have mentioned before that my son has the same model computer
> >(purchased a month later), and he installed a second drive (Maxtor 60GB)
> >partitioned as a couple small partitions (about 7GB, to keep cluster
> >size down) followed by one large partition (over 40GB), and he has no
> >problems accessing it in Windows 98SE, Windows Safe Mode, or "reboot to
> >MS-DOS prompt". Unless HP made some change in that month, the BIOS and
> >drivers should be identical. He's actually been doing the work on this,
> >and telling me what to post. He's an Electrical Engineer.
>
> It can be the partition table disk geometry that does not match the
> BIOS setting. In that case delete all partitions assuming they do not
> contain data, reboot and detect the disk i BIOS, and create new
> partitions. The previous description however did not quite match that
> problem.
>
> If the 32 GB problem is present, the drivers from the Microsoft page
> mentioned may solve the problem.
>
> Changing the BIOS geometry to 255 heads (LBA) may solve it too, since
> the Microsoft drivers may only apply the 32 GB problem for a 240 heads
> setting.
>
> You can examine if the 32 GB problem is present by using my GB32
> program in a Windows 98 DOS box. In a very few cases, the same problem
> has been seen in pure DOS.
>
> Note that from the description the 32 GB problem can be present on
> your sons computer too. It is only seen if data are more than 32 GB
> into the disk, in which case it will be written 32 GB lower than it
> should be.
>
> If anything else fails, then do in both DOS and Windows:
>
> findpart all fp.txt
>
> and post the output here. Findpart is at my page.
>
> If Via drivers are used, the copyright date can be seen in Control
> Panel/System/Device Manger. The drivers are in
> \windows\system\iosubsys

Thank you very much, Svend. Your GB32 program told both of us we
had the 32 GB problem in a Win98SE DOS window, and found no problem
in DOS prompt mode. I downloaded the zipped Via drivers, but none
of the files contained in the archives matched files on my system,
so it appears we're not using Via drivers. Therefore, rather than
trying to update those drivers, I downloaded the Microsoft update
you'd mentioned earlier. That took care of the problem, and GB32
now finds no problems. I wish Microsoft had been clearer about
the nature of the problem, since it impacts a lot more than scandisk.

Best regards,
Chuck
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:c67668$8me3j$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de
> "Svend Olaf Mikkelsen" <svolaf@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message news:40859a95.7096060@dtext.news.tele.dk...
> > On 20 Apr 2004 12:57:16 -0700, cgweppler@hotmail.com (Charles Weppler) wrote:
> > > "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:<c63c40$76r9m$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > > > "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c61jec12mdo@enews4.newsguy.com
> > > > > "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:c61giq$75is1$3@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > > "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message news:c60q1j11djv@enews4.newsguy.com
[snip]
> > > <snip>
> > > > 1. That combination is invalid for P-CHS as well as L-CHS.
> > > > L-CHS is limited to 1024 cylinders and P-CHS is limited to 16 heads
> > > > 2. Both are limited to 8 GB so any other use beyond that is for
> > > > "a completely ludicrous way of defining (describing) a capacity"
[snip]
> >
> > It can be the partition table disk geometry that does not match the BIOS setting.
>
> How can it ever match the bios setting when "the partition table disk geometry"
> is limited to 1023 255 63?
>
> > In that case delete all partitions assuming they do not contain data,
> > reboot and detect the disk in BIOS, and create new partitions.
>
> > The previous description however did not quite match that problem.
>
> And what problem is that?
>
> >
> > If the 32 GB problem is present, the drivers from the Microsoft page
> > mentioned may solve the problem.
> >
> > Changing the BIOS geometry to 255 heads (LBA) may solve it too,
>
> My bios doesn't even allow that. Only 'Normal' and 'Auto' do.
>
> > since the Microsoft drivers may only apply the 32 GB problem for a
> > 240 heads setting.
>
> So maybe you should verify that?
>
> >
> > You can examine if the 32 GB problem is present by using my GB32
> > program in a Windows 98 DOS box. In a very few cases, the same
> > problem has been seen in pure DOS.
>
> So, "Which is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver
> problem" isn't quite right then, is it?
>
> >

[snip]

I had hoped that something (positive) could be learned here.
Guess not then.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:44:41 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra"
<see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote:

>> It can be the partition table disk geometry that does not match the BIOS setting.
>
>How can it ever match the bios setting when "the partition table disk geometry"
>is limited to 1023 255 63?

It matches when end head in partition tables is one lower than the
number of heads reported by interrupt 13h, function 8h when no
partitions are present, and the end sector is the same as the number
of sectors per track according to the same interrupt.

>> In that case delete all partitions assuming they do not contain data,
>> reboot and detect the disk in BIOS, and create new partitions.
>
>> The previous description however did not quite match that problem.
>
>And what problem is that?

That is previously discussed. The BIOS may not read and write the
addresses expected, when the partition tables do not match the
geometry.

>> If the 32 GB problem is present, the drivers from the Microsoft page
>> mentioned may solve the problem.
>>
>> Changing the BIOS geometry to 255 heads (LBA) may solve it too,
>
>My bios doesn't even allow that. Only 'Normal' and 'Auto' do.

>> since the Microsoft drivers may only apply the 32 GB problem for a
>> 240 heads setting.
>
>So maybe you should verify that?

Too time consuming. Also I may not have the hardware needed.

>> You can examine if the 32 GB problem is present by using my GB32
>> program in a Windows 98 DOS box. In a very few cases, the same
>> problem has been seen in pure DOS.
>
>So, "Which is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver
>problem" isn't quite right then, is it?

Well, I did hear about 1 case in DOS.
--
Svend Olaf
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On 25 Apr 2004 15:25:18 -0700, cgweppler@hotmail.com (Charles Weppler)
wrote:

>Thank you very much, Svend. Your GB32 program told both of us we
>had the 32 GB problem in a Win98SE DOS window, and found no problem
>in DOS prompt mode. I downloaded the zipped Via drivers, but none
>of the files contained in the archives matched files on my system,
>so it appears we're not using Via drivers. Therefore, rather than
>trying to update those drivers, I downloaded the Microsoft update
>you'd mentioned earlier. That took care of the problem, and GB32
>now finds no problems. I wish Microsoft had been clearer about
>the nature of the problem, since it impacts a lot more than scandisk.
>
>Best regards,
>Chuck

Nice that the problem was solved.

Well, yes, I tend to not comment on Microsoft behavior in partition
relates issues, since English is not my native language.
--
Svend Olaf
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Svend Olaf Mikkelsen" <svolaf@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message news:408cf6e1.9799651@dtext.news.tele.dk...
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:44:41 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote:
>
> > > It can be the partition table disk geometry that does not match the BIOS setting.
> >
> > How can it ever match the bios setting when "the partition table disk geometry"
> > is limited to 1023 255 63?
>
> It matches when end head in partition tables is one lower than
> the number of heads reported by interrupt 13h, function 8h

Int 13/AH=08h doesn't report the number of heads.

And what does that have to do with "the BIOS setting"?

> when no partitions are present,

But they are. And obviously there is no problem as described when
there aren't any partitions.

> and the end sector is the same as the number of sectors per track
> according to the same interrupt.

But then it would describe a harddrive of less than 8GB (7.5 GB).
Also CHS and LBA values wouldn't match unless it described
a harddrive of less than 8GB which is obviously not desired.

>
> >> In that case delete all partitions assuming they do not contain data,
> >> reboot and detect the disk in BIOS, and create new partitions.
> >
> >> The previous description however did not quite match that problem.
> >
> >And what problem is that?
>
> That is previously discussed.

Duh. So remind me.

> The BIOS may not read and write the addresses expected, when
> the partition tables do not match the geometry.

As I said, the partition tables cannot ever match the geometry so
your point is moot. And didn't you say it wasn't a bios problem?

>
> >> If the 32 GB problem is present, the drivers from the Microsoft
> >> page mentioned may solve the problem.
> >>
> >> Changing the BIOS geometry to 255 heads (LBA) may solve it too,
> >
> >My bios doesn't even allow that. Only 'Normal' and 'Auto' do.

Well?

>
> >> since the Microsoft drivers may only apply the 32 GB problem for a
> >> 240 heads setting.
> >
> >So maybe you should verify that?
>
> Too time consuming. Also I may not have the hardware needed.

Then you'd better refrain from making that type of mindless smalltalk.

>
> >> You can examine if the 32 GB problem is present by using my GB32
> >> program in a Windows 98 DOS box. In a very few cases, the same
> >> problem has been seen in pure DOS.
> >
> > So, "Which is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver
> > problem" isn't quite right then, is it?
>
> Well, I did hear about 1 case in DOS.

Right, so it may be a bios problem too.

> --
> Svend Olaf
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:34:56 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra"
<see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote:

>Int 13/AH=08h doesn't report the number of heads.

It does, although one have to interpret the register contents.

>And what does that have to do with "the BIOS setting"?

The interrupt reply will vary depending on BIOS settings.

> when no partitions are present,
>
>But they are. And obviously there is no problem as described when
>there aren't any partitions.

No, but one have to know the clean interrupt 13h reporting to be able
to see if there is a partition table match.

Then copy the MBR to a file on floppy, zero the MBR, reboot, make the
BIOS setting again, run interrupt 13h, write down the numbers on a
piece of paper. Then write back the MBR. How difficult can it be?

>> and the end sector is the same as the number of sectors per track
>> according to the same interrupt.
>
>But then it would describe a harddrive of less than 8GB (7.5 GB).
>Also CHS and LBA values wouldn't match unless it described
>a harddrive of less than 8GB which is obviously not desired.

Does not apply.

>> >> In that case delete all partitions assuming they do not contain data,
>> >> reboot and detect the disk in BIOS, and create new partitions.
>> >
>> >> The previous description however did not quite match that problem.
>> >
>> >And what problem is that?
>>
>> That is previously discussed.
>
>Duh. So remind me.

>> >> Changing the BIOS geometry to 255 heads (LBA) may solve it too,
>> >
>> >My bios doesn't even allow that. Only 'Normal' and 'Auto' do.
>
>Well?

Set it so interrupt 13h function 8h returns 255 heads when no
partitions are present.

>> >> since the Microsoft drivers may only apply the 32 GB problem for a
>> >> 240 heads setting.
>> >
>> >So maybe you should verify that?
>>
>> Too time consuming. Also I may not have the hardware needed.
>
>Then you'd better refrain from making that type of mindless smalltalk.

There is reason enough for a "may".

>> >> You can examine if the 32 GB problem is present by using my GB32
>> >> program in a Windows 98 DOS box. In a very few cases, the same
>> >> problem has been seen in pure DOS.
>> >
>> > So, "Which is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver
>> > problem" isn't quite right then, is it?
>>
>> Well, I did hear about 1 case in DOS.
>
>Right, so it may be a bios problem too.

Yes.

I would like to explain my interpretation of these matters, but it
seems as our basic understanding of disk geometry is so different,
that it may not be possible.
--
Svend Olaf
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Svend Olaf Mikkelsen" <svolaf@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message news:408dfc57.1460332@dtext.news.tele.dk
> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:34:56 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote:
>> "Svend Olaf Mikkelsen" <svolaf@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message news:408cf6e1.9799651@dtext.news.tele.dk...
>>> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:44:41 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It can be the partition table disk geometry that does not match the BIOS setting.

Come to think of it, couldn't the problem be that the partition table disk
geometry actually *matches* (part of) the (published) BIOS setting?

>>>>
>>>> How can it ever match the bios setting when "the partition table disk geometry"
>>>> is limited to 1023 255 63?
>>>
>>> It matches when end head in partition tables is one lower than
>>> the number of heads reported by interrupt 13h, function 8h
>>
>> Int 13/AH=08h doesn't report the number of heads.
>
> It does, although one have to interpret the register contents.

No, it doesn't: "DH = maximum head number"
It reports the max head number which already is the (number of heads)-1

>
>> And what does that have to do with "the BIOS setting"?
>
> The interrupt reply will vary depending on BIOS settings.

Or in plain english: the bios setting will only be in effect
when the drive has not been partitioned yet.

Or in other words:
The bios setting is of no effect when the drive is partitioned.
Which is what I always thought it was, an advisory setting
for Fdisk to use when partitioning a drive.

>
>> when no partitions are present,
>>
>> But they are. And obviously there is no problem as described when
>> there aren't any partitions.
>
> No,

So Yes.

> but one have to know the clean interrupt 13h reporting to be able
> to see if there is a partition table match.

That doesn't make sense when it doesn't report the table entry(s)
but reports the bios setting instead. It doesn't make sense when that
bios setting isn't in effect when the drive has been partitioned.
It's the one *or* it is the other.
The bios will use the MBR entry for accessing the partitioned drive
and will use the bios entry in case the drive hasn't been partitioned yet.

How difficult can that be?

>
> Then copy the MBR to a file on floppy, zero the MBR, reboot, make the
> BIOS setting again, run interrupt 13h, write down the numbers on a
> piece of paper. Then write back the MBR. How difficult can it be?

Far too difficult for something that is of no importance, when there is
no conflict.

What you describe only makes sense for when the partion tables original
values have been overwritten and you want to set them back without the
use of external software and use the setup utility for that instead.

And it is only necessary when you intend to use it with utilities that only
use Int13, not Int13 ext.
It will also only make a difference when the drive was previously written
to using Int13 and the original CHS and you need to read them back again,
using that original CHS.

>
>>> and the end sector is the same as the number of sectors per track
>>> according to the same interrupt.
>>
>> But then it would describe a harddrive of less than 8GB (7.5 GB).
>> Also CHS and LBA values wouldn't match unless it described
>> a harddrive of less than 8GB which is obviously not desired.
>
> Does not apply.

Exactly.
So either a CHS LBA mismatch is reported or the CHS values
are completely ignored and the LBA values are used entirely.

>
>>>>> In that case delete all partitions assuming they do not contain data,
>>>>> reboot and detect the disk in BIOS, and create new partitions.
>>>>
>>>>> The previous description however did not quite match that problem.
>>>>
>>>> And what problem is that?
>>>
>>> That is previously discussed.
>>
>> Duh. So remind me.

Guess not.

>
>>>>> Changing the BIOS geometry to 255 heads (LBA) may solve it too,
>>>>
>>>> My bios doesn't even allow that. Only 'Normal' and 'Auto' do.
>>
>> Well?
>
> Set it so interrupt 13h function 8h returns 255 heads when no
> partitions are present.

Ah. Any prayers to say to make that happen?

>
>>>>> since the Microsoft drivers may only apply the 32 GB problem for a
>>>>> 240 heads setting.
>>>>
>>>> So maybe you should verify that?
>>>
>>> Too time consuming. Also I may not have the hardware needed.
>>
>> Then you'd better refrain from making that type of mindless smalltalk.
>
> There is reason enough for a "may".

As much as in 'hell "may" freeze over first', sure.

>
>>>>> You can examine if the 32 GB problem is present by using my GB32
>>>>> program in a Windows 98 DOS box. In a very few cases, the same
>>>>> problem has been seen in pure DOS.
>>>>
>>>> So, "Which is not a BIOS problem, but a Windows or Windows driver
>>>> problem" isn't quite right then, is it?
>>>
>>> Well, I did hear about 1 case in DOS.
>>
>> Right, so it may be a bios problem too.
>
> Yes.
>
> I would like to explain my interpretation of these matters, but it
> seems as our basic understanding of disk geometry is so different,
> that it may not be possible.

Well, as long as you keep insisting that something basic as values greater
than 1023 can be placed in a 10-bits register I will agree that it is
virtually impossible for you to explain your basic understanding of disk
geometry to me.

Or anyone else.

And I don't even think it has anything to do with diskgeometry 'ansich'
either. Just understanding how the bios (setup) and BIOS works.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:c6mttj$dciub$3@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de
> "Svend Olaf Mikkelsen" <svolaf@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message news:408dfc57.1460332@dtext.news.tele.dk
> > On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:34:56 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote:
> > > "Svend Olaf Mikkelsen" <svolaf@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message news:408cf6e1.9799651@dtext.news.tele.dk...
> > > > On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:44:41 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote:
> > > >

I believe it is your turn again.
Now that we have established that my understanding of drive geometry
isn't all that flawed as you make it out to be, I think you owe me.
 
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