[SOLVED] TWO secured networks using a single residential Modem?

Jan 20, 2020
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ISP is Time Warner Spectrum
Modem Manufacturer Model: Ubee DVW32C1

Existing Router: Archer C50
Proposed Second Router: TP-Link Archer C2300

Goal: Use current Modem to allow TWO distinct routers to broadcast TWO different networks.

Situation: At our residential address we have two separate families and now one needs to stop using their AT&T ISP and needs to use Spectrum. Spectrum told other residents they can come out to install a separate 'box'(I'm supposing they meant modem) for them to do this for an additional monthly fee. Instead of tacking on yet another monthly fee, would it be feasible for us to leave the existing setup as-is and just allow a new router to connect wirelessly to the existing Ubee modem and allow all of the other families' internet connections to run through it? I understand that having the routers set to broadcast at something like channel 2 & 8 or 6 & 11 etc can avoid potential disruptions caused by the other. My aim would be to allow each family their own secure network for their devices. I plan to upgrade the internet service to Spectrum's 400Mbps option(the only upgrade available) to handle the increased bandwidth.

I hope that is sufficient information to determine whether A. I should just let Spectrum install something separately for them at a monthly fee or B. I can set it up as described.

Thank you for your time and input!
 
The modem/router will be fast enough you may have to get a different one if buying the faster internet plan requires it.

There is no magic solution using wifi. Mesh is mostly a marketing scam. It is just another name for repeater and suffers much the same issues.

Key here is it does not create more wifi radio bandwidth and it uses at least 2 times as much. One for the signal between the main router and the repeater and a second signal to the end device. So in theory you could use the 2.4g radio to talk to the router and the 5g radio to talk to the end clients. You are at the very best going to be limited to the speed of the 2.4g band.

The only real way to do this is for the devices to have a dedicated extra 5g radio chip. One to talk between the units and a second to talk to the end clients along with a 2.4g radio.

Almost none of the mesh systems work this way. They run like old repeaters and use a radio chip to talk to end clients as well as the main router. They stomp on their own signals.

In addition in your case you have another set of wifi signals on a different set of routers. The huge problem is to get high speed wifi uses huge amount of bandwidth. On 2.4g they use 40mhz channels. There is only 60mhz total so it is impossible to even fit 2 signals. The old 1,6,11 channels stuff is based on 20mhz channels. On 5g it is only slightly better 802.11ac uses 80mhz channels. There are only 2 blocks this large usable in most countries. So even in best case with a repeater with a extra radio chip would use both.

This of course ignore any neighbors attempting to use wifi.

I would choose the use of any kind of repeater or mesh system as your very last option when there is no other way to make this work. Depending on how the house is layout and if there is a attic or basement you should be able to get a ethernet cable run through the walls by a pro for under about $200. Drilling though the outside wall tends to be a DIY project and is pretty much the cost of the cable and some boxes for the wall.
 
You will have several problems:
  • configuring (second) router for WiFi WAN, and retransmitting it to another WiFi, will be difficult, and most proably not supported by factory firmware;
  • in that setup, everybody connectd to the second router will have access to ALL devices connected to the Ubee router (as this will be "Internet" for these devices).
Why not just enable Guest Network for that other family?
 
Jan 20, 2020
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Thank you for that info.

I hadn't considered simply enabling a Guest Network for them. We currently have it enabled for our own guests but wouldn't mind giving that up if it would address our needs. The current wiring has the existing router placed in a 1st floor corner room of the home and we would need the signal to reach to the opposing upstairs corner of the home. Would any current routers under $300 be able to handle that and the traffic or ought we be aiming at simply using an extender on their side of the home for their access?
 
You still share the same public IP address so you really have to trust the other people to not do illegal stuff. When you consider teens have gotten their parent internet connection canceled by misuse you can never be too careful.

To some extent you are lucky the device you are calling a modem is actually a modem/router. If you were to connect a second router to this device all the traffic behind each router would be isolated. Both routers would treat the network between them and the main modem/router as the internet so no traffic would be allowed in. If that was a actual modem or you have it set to bridge mode then only 1 router can be connected.

Any form of wifi connection to that router is going to have poor performance. Any repeater/extender greatly degrades the performance. You also now have a third set of radio signals interfering with both your other routers.

Your best option is going to be to have a ethernet cable installed to the second location. It should be fairly inexpensive especially if you do it the way the ISP would add a second modem. They just drill through the outside walls and run the cable on the outside of the house.

You might have other options. If the electircal power is shared...ie on the same power meter you might be able to use powerline networks. If there are tv coax cables between you could consider Moca. Both would appear as a ethernet cable and you would connect a second router to the router/modem.
 
Jan 20, 2020
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Thank you for laying out those options Bill. Assuming legal use won't be an issue for now. If I understand you correctly, I could feasibly hardwire the Lan1 and Lan2 connections from the modem/router into two routers, each broadcasting their own network for each family? And neither side would need to be concerned about the other? The wireless signal from modem/router is disabled and would be staying that way. But are you also saying the unit should be replaced with a better modem/router for the networks to both be faster?

That may be an easier fix if I can just get the Lan2 cable to where the router for the other family would be. As they're the landlord my main concern would be their willingness to have the holes drilled for it.

If the physical wiring isn't feasible I was looking at going the route of a mesh system(Orbi w/backchannel) with the base unit on our end and a single satellite in the middle of their 2000sqft portion for them. Would this be preferable to avoid hassle?

There is a separate breaker box so I think Powerline is out and the installer only ran a new coax line from the box to the corner room for the modem/router, the other coax in the house don't have live signal which rules out moca. Both new options to me I hadn't known before, thank you.
 
The modem/router will be fast enough you may have to get a different one if buying the faster internet plan requires it.

There is no magic solution using wifi. Mesh is mostly a marketing scam. It is just another name for repeater and suffers much the same issues.

Key here is it does not create more wifi radio bandwidth and it uses at least 2 times as much. One for the signal between the main router and the repeater and a second signal to the end device. So in theory you could use the 2.4g radio to talk to the router and the 5g radio to talk to the end clients. You are at the very best going to be limited to the speed of the 2.4g band.

The only real way to do this is for the devices to have a dedicated extra 5g radio chip. One to talk between the units and a second to talk to the end clients along with a 2.4g radio.

Almost none of the mesh systems work this way. They run like old repeaters and use a radio chip to talk to end clients as well as the main router. They stomp on their own signals.

In addition in your case you have another set of wifi signals on a different set of routers. The huge problem is to get high speed wifi uses huge amount of bandwidth. On 2.4g they use 40mhz channels. There is only 60mhz total so it is impossible to even fit 2 signals. The old 1,6,11 channels stuff is based on 20mhz channels. On 5g it is only slightly better 802.11ac uses 80mhz channels. There are only 2 blocks this large usable in most countries. So even in best case with a repeater with a extra radio chip would use both.

This of course ignore any neighbors attempting to use wifi.

I would choose the use of any kind of repeater or mesh system as your very last option when there is no other way to make this work. Depending on how the house is layout and if there is a attic or basement you should be able to get a ethernet cable run through the walls by a pro for under about $200. Drilling though the outside wall tends to be a DIY project and is pretty much the cost of the cable and some boxes for the wall.
 
Jan 20, 2020
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Perfect, thank you for clarifying.

I've purchased enough Cat6 to run a physical line from the modem-router to the other family to hook up to a new TP-Link Archer C2600 router for them. Not even 40meters so signal will be fine.

My only concern is that when I try connecting my laptop by plugging in an ethernet cable to the second Ethernet port on the back of the modem/router, the Gigabit light turns on solid green but I have no network access. In my laptop network options I have my Gb Ethernet controller and a second option of ‘Anchorfree TAP-Windows Adapter V9’. The Gb Ethernet controller status shows “unidentified network”.

IPv4 and IPv6 show no network access. When I try to troubleshoot it resets the ethernet adapter and then gives error message “Ethernet” does not have a valid IP configuration. I have power-cycled my whole system which does not resolve this.

Should I wait until I have the second router to see whether the issue persists when hooking up each router to its own Ethernet port of the modem/router? I am asking in advance because I do not want one of the routers to be hooked up to a port that wont allow internet access.

Thank you for the time, I do appreciate it.
 
That is always your best test of a cable.

It could be a number of things. First I would try a short known good cable and plug directly into the router/modem. You may not be getting a ip address. IPCONFIG /all should give you a clue.

Generally if you get lights the cable is good. Verify the status says it is connected at gigabit.
 
Jan 20, 2020
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Yes, the cable is good and status confirms active connection of 1.0Gbps with 0 packets received.

I removed the physical addresses but when using ipconfig /all I have the following:

Windows IP Configuration
Primary DNS Suffix: This is blank
Node Type . . . :Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled . . . . .:No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . .:No

Ethernet adapter Ethernet:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix: This is blank
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . .:Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled. . . .:Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . .: Address listed ending in "%15(Preferred)"
Autoconfiguration IPv4 Address: Address listed(Preferred))
Subnet Mask . . . . .: 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway: letters and numbers listed ending in "%15"
DHCPv6 IAID: Numbers listed
DHCPv6 Client DUID: Many numbers/letters listed
DNS Servers: 192.168.0.1
0.0.0.0
NetBIOS over Tcpip: Enabled

This is beyond my abilities. I notice the Default Gateway ends in %15. From what I understand, ending in a %# means it's a Link-Local address.
 
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Addresses in the lan are considered private ip and everyone uses the group so it is not a issue to post them. That likely does not matter.

I assume you also have a ipv4 gateway of 192.168.0.1 like the dns.

Try to ping that IP address. You could also disable the IPv6 in the nic settings. It should not matter but IPv6 is not used by most ISP and it causes lots of confusing especially when troubleshooting.

This makes little sense since all you are doing is plugging your pc into the main router.
 
Jan 20, 2020
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Thank you so much for your assistance in this.

instead of wasting your time with what could have been a problem, I waited to try hooking up both routers to see what problem would exist. luckily, both routers have now been hooked up successfully and are running independent and secure networks. They have only been up and running for a few minutes but I don't see any conflicts yet. I will mark this as resolved for now, again, thank you very much for your input and assistance.
 

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