News Two undersea internet cables connecting Finland and Sweden to Europe have been cut — EU leaders suspect sabotage

[Admin]

Two undersea cables miles apart connecting Sweden and Finland to Central Europe have been sabotaged.

Two undersea internet cables connecting Finland and Sweden to Europe have been cut — EU leaders suspect sabotage : Read more

 

[-Fran-]

Who thinks cutting the porn Internet from us nerds is a good idea?

Regards 😛

 

[Notton]

I'm not sure who benefits from this sabotage.
Everyone know how vulnerable the undersea infrastructure is already, so a reminder accomplishes what?

 

[Pierce2623]

I'm not sure who benefits from this sabotage.
Everyone know how vulnerable the undersea infrastructure is already, so a reminder accomplishes what?

I imagine this is more like the trick where someone holds a hand right in your face to hold your attention then slaps you in the back of the head with other hand.

 

[bit_user]

The article failed to mention the recent event in the news (within the past couple days), involving NATO countries, that would likely provoke such retaliation. Since that's veering well into politics (not allowed here), you'll have to look it up yourself.

 

[hotaru251]

yeah ngl waste to do this attack (as you alert people they happening) as it wouldnt ever do actual disruption as they are designed to be quickly rerouted just for these types of damages.

 

[bit_user]

it wouldnt ever do actual disruption as they are designed to be quickly rerouted just for these types of damages.

If enough of the links are cut, it would definitely disrupt internet usage. There's not nearly enough microwave or satellite bandwidth to pick up the slack, and if you just look at a map, you can see that Finland, Norway, and Sweden are all on a peninsula that's only connected to mainland Europe via Russia.

 

[Kridian]

We just need to find TikTok line and cut that.
😛

 

[baranlai]

Beastie Boys - Sabotage

 

[helper800]

Anyone got their jumbo sized wire strippers?

 

[SunMaster]

If enough of the links are cut, it would definitely disrupt internet usage. There's not nearly enough microwave or satellite bandwidth to pick up the slack, and if you just look at a map, you can see that Finland, Norway, and Sweden are all on a peninsula that's only connected to mainland Europe via Russia.

Living in Norway I assure you we're absolutely not connected to mainland Europa via Russia. There are underwater cables for power and net plus pipelines for gas.

Some info/map at https://businessnorway.com/articles...ble-network-provides-world-class-connectivity and https://cablemap.info/_default.aspx but the reality is none of the nordic countries go via Russia.

 

[atomicWAR]

Beastie Boys - Sabotage

OMG that song rang out when I started reading the article. Guess I dated myself with you!!!

The article failed to mention the recent event in the news (within the past couple days), involving NATO countries, that would likely provoke such retaliation. Since that's veering well into politics (not allowed here), you'll have to look it up yourself.

^this.

If enough of the links are cut, it would definitely disrupt internet usage. There's not nearly enough microwave or satellite bandwidth to pick up the slack, and if you just look at a map, you can see that Finland, Norway, and Sweden are all on a peninsula that's only connected to mainland Europe via Russia.

Its clearly a strategic move and a few more like it could hobble internet access and speeds. The internet is far more fragile than most people realize.

 

[endocine]

Can't imagine anyone who would do such a thing.

 

[Dja123]

The article failed to mention the recent event in the news (within the past couple days), involving NATO countries, that would likely provoke such retaliation. Since that's veering well into politics (not allowed here), you'll have to look it up yourself.

Victim blaming should also be disallowed.

 

[jonaswox]

Its clearly a strategic move and a few more like it could hobble internet access and speeds. The internet is far more fragile than most people realize.

While I agree that internet is certainly fragile since it mostly relies on cables, that can just be cut.... I dont agree on the other point. I think most people have no idea how well thought out our network infrastructure usually is, and redundancy is a key word in all infrastructure design. This is to a degree where no natural events would properly disrupt our ability to communicate, but intentional sabotage is obviously impossible to do total safeguards against.

 

[atomicWAR]

While I agree that internet is certainly fragile since it mostly relies on cables, that can just be cut.... I dont agree on the other point. I think most people have no idea how well thought out our network infrastructure usually is, and redundancy is a key word in all infrastructure design. This is to a degree where no natural events would properly disrupt our ability to communicate, but intentional sabotage is obviously impossible to do total safeguards against.

There are a lot of redundancies for the internet but when your talking about targeting a particular region. The ability to do damage to speeds and or access through sabotage... it is clearly an easy thing to do if you look at the current world stage where one location in particular is already been cut off save for satellite access. And that access isn't particularly hard to severe either. I'd like to go more in-depth but that is as far as I feel comfortable to take things in this particular forum.

 

[bit_user]

Living in Norway I assure you we're absolutely not connected to mainland Europa via Russia. ... the reality is none of the nordic countries go via Russia.

Yes, that was basically the point I was making to the other poster about the potential for this tactic to cause isolation. Thank you for confirming.

Victim blaming should also be disallowed.

I'm sorry it came across that way, but it wasn't how I meant it. I was just trying to point to additional context lacking from the article.

 

[jasonf2]

Without going into any politics it is my understanding that it is a technically difficult thing to purposefully cut a deep fiber link and only a handful of state actors even have the ability to do so. It is also and maybe even more difficult to repair with only a small handful of vessels capable of doing so world wide. The obvious economic impact of severing deep sea links is very real. I think we are in a better place today due to the proliferation of high bandwidth satellite networks (starlink), but the handful of deep sea links we have carry huge amounts of data which easily overun the other paths. If enough were cut the internet as we know it would grind to a halt, or at the very least be split, while repairs were being made.
The bigger implication of this though is how the international community protects these cables going forward, especially in international waters. While the cables are protected under international treaty I don't know of any instance where a navy vessel actively attacked another vessel to protect a cable. Maritime law in international waters is pretty lax on where a ship can go so I don't really think it is as simple as floating a buoy near the cable marked with "Keep out". When 99% of those cables are owned by private companies who is going to enforce protection?

 

[gborrero1]

Its not so much the sabotage. The bad actor(s) obviously expect a natural response to fix the cables all afterwards. It's more for the opportunity to place a stealth relay in the remaining cable and hope the fix is a quick patch and not a complete replacement of the entire cable itself. Goal is short term digital disruption and long term digital intel. But I'm sure they have considered that possibility, right? 😒

 

[Co BIY]

Living in Norway I assure you we're absolutely not connected to mainland Europa via Russia. There are underwater cables for power and net plus pipelines for gas.

Some info/map at https://businessnorway.com/articles...ble-network-provides-world-class-connectivity and https://cablemap.info/_default.aspx but the reality is none of the nordic countries go via Russia.

Artic Connect cable from Norway directly to Japan is very interesting!

and a second

https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/far-north-fiber-one-step-closer-pan-arctic-connectivity


Apparently undersea cable damage is an active area if under reported.

https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/fi...islands-damaged-mediterranean-cables-also-cut

 

[James Bone]

I remember when they first started talking about undersea cables 20 years ago or more before there actually were any. And my first thought was that if they did it there would be vandalism, or sabotage, or whatever you want to call it. And it can be anyone who just likes to vandalize things, not necessarily a nation state. Vandalism takes many forms and there's no shortage of vandals in the world.

 

[youraverageunderacheeser]

This is how a Bond movie starts.

 

[bit_user]

I remember when they first started talking about undersea cables 20 years ago or more before there actually were any.

I'm not sure what you're thinking of, but the first transatlantic telegraph cable was operation back in 1854.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_telegraph_cable
​

According to this, transoceanic fiber optic cables started being deployed back in 1988:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable#Optical_telecommunications_cables
​

it can be anyone who just likes to vandalize things, not necessarily a nation state. Vandalism takes many forms and there's no shortage of vandals in the world.

It requires substantial investment, expertise, and logistics. That effectively puts it well out of reach of casual vandals. Even terrorists probably wouldn't target cable links, due to the comparative difficulty vs. other targets they could hit. That's further compounded by the need to hit enough of them to have a real impact.

 

[bit_user]

Well I'm not sure what year this is but I was told there are things in space called satellites. If DirecTV can do it I'm sure a government can do it.

I think the problem with using something like Starlink to replace all of a country's undersea links is scale. I'm trying to find out the aggregate throughput of a Starlink Satellite, plus how many would tend to be in range at any given point in time. If anyone has these specs, please share.

Try cutting that line

Well, I'm sure they can be jammed. The question is mainly about the logistics of doing so, especially over a large area or an extended period of time.

Something else I worry about is whether low-orbit satellites would be vulnerable to ground-based energy attacks. You wouldn't need to obliterate a satellite - just fry its receiver by massively overloading it, in the band it's designed to utilize. Again, I have no idea how feasible this is, nor how well someone could protect a receiver from this sort of attack.

 

[USAFRet]

Well I'm not sure what year this is but I was told there are things in space called satellites. If DirecTV can do it I'm sure a government can do it.

There is a LOT more traffic going around than what DirectTV does.

Orders of magnitude more.