News U.S. Wants ASML to Stop Selling Chipmaking Tools to China

[watzupken]

Yet, the EU, the US, etc. are still in full force to add even more sanctions against Russia as we speak.

Sometimes, sacrifice is necessary for the greater good!

What sorts of “greater good” are you thinking of? These sanctions as we have observed for the past few months, is not doing anything to deter Russia authorities from further attacks on Ukraine. The end result of all these sanctions however affects every single person in the world as we can see. Things getting more expensive for you may not be a problem. But there are already people that barely make enough money, not enough food and are suffering. Yet the people that made the decision to go to war, decision to sanction, and the rich are the least impacted. You cannot discount how connected we are even if you think you have little dependency on another nation. Look at Europe, let’s sanction Russia, and look at some of the EU nations asking their citizens to ration oil/ electric usage. And what of the Russian citizens that did not agree to the decision to invade their neighbour? Imagine you are in that situation. I don’t support war, but I don’t support sanctions even more.

 

[tamalero]

Good Ol' USA showcasing they never played "fair". It all capitalism until it sinks your business.

Ironically, what is destroying US as for today is rich business magnates and corruption ruling everything.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Eventually the people will have had enough and decide Putin can't lead any longer. It wouldn't be the first time in Russian history.

 

[watzupken]

You have a weird grasp of alternate reality.

In no way are the countries sanctioning Russia easing up on the sanctions, but they're (all) slowly strengthening them. All countries are aware that sanctioning Russia will hurt themselves, but they're doing this to make it difficult for Russia - OVER TIME - to maintain a war against Ukraine. Noone outside of the "Russian sphere" with the ability to count money believe that it won't hurt Russia more than the sanctioning countries.

The old Soviet Union was technologically sanctioned for a long time during the cold war. It was very effective.

Sanction on tech is less painful than an across the board sanction. And while the sanctions did slow progress, but with nations still in support of not sanctioning Russia, the sanction is ineffective. So EU won’t buy oil from Russia, sure, but other nations are still buying Russia oil. And given the spike in oil prices across the globe, they may be selling less, but earning more. Who suffers? The authorities that made the decision to invade? The rich people in Russia? Or do you think the Russians that did not make that decision/ oppose that decision to invade Ukraine that is suffering? Have sanctions ever stopped the targeted nations from doing what they are not meant to do? Look at N.Korea and Iran for example.

 

[Why_Me]

What you fail to understand is, that by China invading a sovereign nation IS NOT AN AMERICAN issue only, and EVERY ESTABLISHED NATION will feel the repercussions IF such a move from China is imminent.

China would have over 100 nations against them if they dare attack Taiwan and seize TSMC and China and its people would be done globally where they reside.

You see the unfair treatment that many great Chinese sisters and brothers are getting by the blame for Covid around the world but a Taiwan invasion, sadly, it would be even worse for them.

And who exactly outside the US and UK has a real military and the means to fight transport their troops to SE Asia?

 

[LastStanding]

What sorts of “greater good” are you thinking of? These sanctions as we have observed for the past few months, is not doing anything to deter Russia authorities from further attacks on Ukraine. The end result of all these sanctions however affects every single person in the world as we can see. Things getting more expensive for you may not be a problem. But there are already people that barely make enough money, not enough food and are suffering. Yet the people that made the decision to go to war, decision to sanction, and the rich are the least impacted. You cannot discount how connected we are even if you think you have little dependency on another nation. Look at Europe, let’s sanction Russia, and look at some of the EU nations asking their citizens to ration oil/ electric usage. And what of the Russian citizens that did not agree to the decision to invade their neighbour? Imagine you are in that situation. I don’t support war, but I don’t support sanctions even more.

You don't get it. These sanctions are not designed to put an Iron Dome around Russia, hell, just look at NK and Iran sanctions for decades, but these sanctions are for the long-term strategy against Russia.

 

[SunMaster]

Sanction on tech is less painful than an across the board sanction. And while the sanctions did slow progress, but with nations still in support of not sanctioning Russia, the sanction is ineffective. So EU won’t buy oil from Russia, sure, but other nations are still buying Russia oil. And given the spike in oil prices across the globe, they may be selling less, but earning more. Who suffers? The authorities that made the decision to invade? The rich people in Russia? Or do you think the Russians that did not make that decision/ oppose that decision to invade Ukraine that is suffering? Have sanctions ever stopped the targeted nations from doing what they are not meant to do? Look at N.Korea and Iran for example.

You seem to believe the price of oil is global, and all oil is sold by the "open market" price. It's not. While Russia will sell its oil to China and India, they're paid much less for it than they have been accustomed to.

Maybe https://www.reuters.com/business/en...-purchases-low-priced-russian-oil-2022-05-20/ will help you shed some light on this.

The sanctions will of course hurt the inhabitants of Russia. I doubt many gives a <Mod Edit>, considering what's happening to the inhabitants of Ukraine. If the Russians don't want this to happen they need to step up and make some changes or face the consequences of sanctions.

 

[Bustycat]

The People's Republic of China is an anti-U.S. country. This should have been done before the COVID-19.

 

[escksu]

You have a weird grasp of alternate reality.

In no way are the countries sanctioning Russia easing up on the sanctions, but they're (all) slowly strengthening them. All countries are aware that sanctioning Russia will hurt themselves, but they're doing this to make it difficult for Russia - OVER TIME - to maintain a war against Ukraine. Noone outside of the "Russian sphere" with the ability to count money believe that it won't hurt Russia more than the sanctioning countries.

The old Soviet Union was technologically sanctioned for a long time during the cold war. It was very effective.

I am not sure if you are the one who is living in alternate reality.....

Are the sanctions hurting Russia or Europe? I would say this is the biggest self-pwnage since WW2. Now Russia is shutting down Nord for repairs... Nobody know if it will be started again....

Maybe its time to grow out of the cold war mentality. USA and Europe are no longer wolrd powers.. China and India has basically undone all the sanctions and Russia is making more money than ever. Whats even more ironic is that Saudi is now joining in and started buying up cheap Russian oil....

Lets see if they west is able to sanction these 3 countries.....lol...

 

[escksu]

You seem to believe the price of oil is global, and all oil is sold by the "open market" price. It's not. While Russia will sell its oil to China and India, they're paid much less for it than they have been accustomed to.

Maybe https://www.reuters.com/business/en...-purchases-low-priced-russian-oil-2022-05-20/ will help you shed some light on this.

The sanctions will of course hurt the inhabitants of Russia. I doubt many gives a <Mod Edit>, considering what's happening to the inhabitants of Ukraine. If the Russians don't want this to happen they need to step up and make some changes or face the consequences of sanctions.

Now Saudi is also buying up cheap Russian oil...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...as-major-supplier-of-fuel-oil-to-saudi-arabia

This is really the biggst joke ever in history.....

Countries buying up cheap Russian oil and resell them to USA and Europe...

 

[escksu]

The People's Republic of China is an anti-U.S. country. This should have been done before the COVID-19.

USA and China never did get along..... However, this is only on the level of politics. Business wise, its a totally difference picture. Americans are addicted to chinese goods and US businesses are addicted to low production cost in China.

There is now no way for USA to wean itself off Chinese products.

 

[jp7189]

I think you'll find that the Dutch company ASML owns the patents that are used in the manufacture of the products they design and create.

Ah no, actually. Much of the tech that goes in to their products is licensed.

 

[jp7189]

Did you understand the company with the patents is Dutch? Did you actually read the article?

I think you don't understand how asml works. Intel, TSMC, and Samsung are the main players that contribute tech and funds to keep asml going. Long ago it was decided that it was better to pool resources instead of each individually pursuing lithography machines. It's in the Netherlands in large because that's neutral territory.

 

[peachpuff]

Right, let's just give them no choice but to take TSMC by force.

No point in that since tsmc still needs asml.

 

[Deleted member 431422]

This is getting ridiculous. US government has no rights to demand that from an EU country. I see it's better to do business with Chinese than US. They respect the agreements. Whereas US will stab you in the back and say it's national security.

 

[InvalidError]

Leaving companies like Samsung, SK Hynix, and YMTC without their Chinese fabs will affect the global chip and electronics supply chain.

Banning China from importing new lithography tools won't prevent existing fabs from running their existing DUV equipment until it breaks and replacement unrepairable parts are no longer obtainable. With some luck, the hundreds of EUV machines going elsewhere in the meantime will free up more than enough DUV fabs to pick up the slack on simpler components. ASML and friends will still be making DUV stuff for parts that don't require bleeding-edge tech too.

 

[SunMaster]

I think you don't understand how asml works. Intel, TSMC, and Samsung are the main players that contribute tech and funds to keep asml going. Long ago it was decided that it was better to pool resources instead of each individually pursuing lithography machines. It's in the Netherlands in large because that's neutral territory.

Oh - ok. I take it that would make ASML "less dutch" then, and should do what american politicians say.

It's in the Netherlands because it was founded by Philips - the dutch company residing in Holland. You can read about it here https://www.asml.com/en/company/about-asml/history

The only reason it's also in the US is because it's practical to have a presence there.

Samsung, Intel and TSM didn't "contribute" to ASML, they invested.

https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-...program-for-innovation-completing-the-program

Both Samsung and Intel have later sold parts of their shares.

 

[kjfatl]

As an American, this is bull crap. We have no right to do this regardless of our tensions between each other.

Why can't Biden get the Chips bill passed? This is the real solution to the problem to China's subsidizing their semiconductor industires.

 

[2+2]

You have a weird grasp of alternate reality.

In no way are the countries sanctioning Russia easing up on the sanctions, but they're (all) slowly strengthening them. All countries are aware that sanctioning Russia will hurt themselves, but they're doing this to make it difficult for Russia - OVER TIME - to maintain a war against Ukraine. Noone outside of the "Russian sphere" with the ability to count money believe that it won't hurt Russia more than the sanctioning countries.

The old Soviet Union was technologically sanctioned for a long time during the cold war. It was very effective.

Talk about a weird grasp of reality.
Did sanctions stop WW2?

Russia and China have started WW3.
It will be mostly an economic war.
New trade alliances are being made.
It will be the West against the rest.
Dollar trade is being shifted away from.
China is building up many, less wealthy countries, to trade with.
Russia trade will increase sending oil and food to China.

When China makes a move on Taiwan,
the resulting trade war will destroy the economies of the West.
China will emerge supreme as the USA did after WW2,
because that was the nation that produced everything the world wanted.

 

[2+2]

Right, the western world is pretty dependent on China. I can't see how that could ever change, certainly not in the foreseeable future.

Europe has recognized their dependence on Russia for energy and food
and are taking steps to change that.
The world has recognized their dependence on China for critical supply items
and is taking steps to reduce it.
The US has a weak president.
Climate change zealots are pushing for a switch to electric vehicles, China batteries.

Strategically, the best time is now for China to make a move on Taiwan,
when the world is weakest and maximally dependent on them.

I predict it will be in less than one year.
And then it will be worse than WW2,
because it will hit everyone at home,
not just the men on battlefields.

 

[Quenepas]

As an American, this is bull crap. We have no right to do this regardless of our tensions between each other.

Well, we do not want the chinese to have the tech for WMDs that can reach continental US. If the chinese is able to reach the US mainland they'll get more confidence in not only getting aggresive with the US but also with a bunch of allies. The tech not only allows chinese to attack but also allow us to defend ourselves. If the chinese gets to have the tech to be able to intercept an attack or create weapons to defend against our attacks then they'll for sure escalate for the resources we need to keep our lifestyle.

This is not a world where everybody shares, we all compete and if things do not go our way then war happens and it takes many forms from economic to cyber. It is just the kinetic war that is more obvious.

 

[Quenepas]

Right, let's just give them no choice but to take TSMC by force.

The chinese are very pragmatic and know the second an invasion begins, TSMC, the US or some sort of proxy actor will sabotage all the machines. No amount of promises from the PRC to TSMC about they keeping the profits or getting aid from the state etc will make TSMC join the PRC. There is just way more money in the west than the east. TSMC knows very well their existence is dependent on having economic freedom and if the chinese takes over then they'll get sanctioned by the west and the west will just use Samsung or the fabs already in construction in the US.

 

[Quenepas]

I am not sure if you are the one who is living in alternate reality.....

Are the sanctions hurting Russia or Europe? I would say this is the biggest self-pwnage since WW2. Now Russia is shutting down Nord for repairs... Nobody know if it will be started again....

Maybe its time to grow out of the cold war mentality. USA and Europe are no longer wolrd powers.. China and India has basically undone all the sanctions and Russia is making more money than ever. Whats even more ironic is that Saudi is now joining in and started buying up cheap Russian oil....

Lets see if they west is able to sanction these 3 countries.....lol...

lol do you think sanctions take a month to work? lol

Sure Russia is making more money in the short term, which was very expected, but it's about the lateral repercussions of the sanctions like no parts for planes or tech to replace what breaks. Would you be taking a russian flight knowing they have no parts to replace every X amount of miles? The west is very well still the world best of the best and the US very much still is. Why? We still have the biggest military, the biggest capacity to project power and the best capability of defense. The world economy still trust the dollar because it is backed by such military.

You fail to know India is in plenty strategic partnerships with he US both economically and military. The only thing India is doing is not joining the sanctions to get cheap oil and gas from Russia. Also India has very 'complicated' relations with both Russia and China because the Indians really REALLY hate Pakistan which is the partner of choice of both Russia and China.

It's very ignorant you talk about India when in reality the US have a clear plan for the whole region, almost NATO but for China.

• Deepening our five regional treaty alliances with Australia, Japan, the Republic of Korea (ROK), the Philippines, and Thailand
• Strengthening relationships with leading regional partners, including India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Mongolia, New Zealand, Singapore, Taiwan, Vietnam, and the Pacific Islands
• Contributing to an empowered and unified ASEAN
• Strengthening the Quad and delivering on its commitments
• Supporting India’s continued rise and regional leadership
• Partnering to build resilience in the Pacific Islands
• Forging connections between the Indo-Pacific and the Euro-Atlantic
• Expanding U.S. diplomatic presence in the Indo-Pacific, particularly in Southeast Asia and the Pacific Islands

 

[DSzymborski]

This is why we can't have nice things.