ultimate fate of disqualified compo entries

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Apologies if this is all old hat -- a couple of weeks in the background
here have managed to clear up nearly all of the nagging questions and
enigmas I'd ever suffered in the field of IF. A quote from Joel Ray
Holveck in the Licensing thread on raif reminded me of one of the final
unresolved items of my longtime speculation:

"the Spring Thing doesn't allow submissions based on existing works:
too many copyright issues."

Over the past few annual compos, it seems that pretty predictably an
author or two fails to read the small print and submits for
consideration a game ... "based upon works currently under copyright".
Within hours these violations are invariably uncovered by our
collective community team of top-notch pedants and the offending
entries presumably pulled from circulation in the competition
compilations. (The presumed vanishing act applies equally to entries
"withdrawn" by the author.)

Supposing that the authors (after smacking their heads a few dozen
times) don't eventually upload these disqualified games to the
archive's general, non-compo game pool, is there anywhere that keeps
tabs on these rejects? (yes, and it's called alt.games.xtrek ha ha
only no.) Is there a secret black market underground of "first
edition", unexpurgated compo compilations, circulating the only known
appearance of titles later deemed ineligible and never independently
re-submitted to the archive?

As they said (on the bottom) at The Non-Comp Review Project 2004
(http://www.springthing.net/noncomp/noncomp2004.htm), "Escape from
Auriga and Die Vollkommene Masse. I was going to include these games,
which were entered into the IF Comp but were then both taken out for
one reason or another. I realized, however, that neither of these games
is publicly available anymore, so writing a review of them seems
pointless." No longer being publicly available, have these titles
effectively dropped off the IF map, potentially forever? (Or is it
just left to me to petition their authors to re-release the games
outside a compo context for posterity? 8)
 
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Rowan Lipkovits wrote:
> Apologies if this is all old hat -- a couple of weeks in the
background
> here have managed to clear up nearly all of the nagging questions and
> enigmas I'd ever suffered in the field of IF. A quote from Joel Ray
> Holveck in the Licensing thread on raif reminded me of one of the
final
> unresolved items of my longtime speculation:
>
> "the Spring Thing doesn't allow submissions based on existing works:
> too many copyright issues."
>
> Over the past few annual compos, it seems that pretty predictably an
> author or two fails to read the small print and submits for
> consideration a game ... "based upon works currently under
copyright".
> Within hours these violations are invariably uncovered by our
> collective community team of top-notch pedants and the offending
> entries presumably pulled from circulation in the competition
> compilations. (The presumed vanishing act applies equally to entries
> "withdrawn" by the author.)
>
> Supposing that the authors (after smacking their heads a few dozen
> times) don't eventually upload these disqualified games to the
> archive's general, non-compo game pool, is there anywhere that keeps
> tabs on these rejects? (yes, and it's called alt.games.xtrek ha ha
> only no.) Is there a secret black market underground of "first
> edition", unexpurgated compo compilations, circulating the only known
> appearance of titles later deemed ineligible and never independently
> re-submitted to the archive?
>
> As they said (on the bottom) at The Non-Comp Review Project 2004
> (http://www.springthing.net/noncomp/noncomp2004.htm), "Escape from
> Auriga and Die Vollkommene Masse. I was going to include these games,
> which were entered into the IF Comp but were then both taken out for
> one reason or another. I realized, however, that neither of these
games
> is publicly available anymore, so writing a review of them seems
> pointless." No longer being publicly available, have these titles
> effectively dropped off the IF map, potentially forever? (Or is it
> just left to me to petition their authors to re-release the games
> outside a compo context for posterity? 8)

I might have reviewed Auriga and Masse for that review project, but I
was swamped with a project that turned out to be bigger than I
expected. Then I realized that they weren't available anymore (at that
time), so there didn't seem to be any point in pulling my hair out over
it. Especially since neither of the two authors had either re-uploaded
their game to the archive or made any kind of re-release announcement
(at that time -- Dec. 31).

Since then, Die Vollkommene Masse was re-released:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.int-fiction/browse_frm/thread/5f07d963225c7077

It's also at:

http://ifarchive.heanet.ie/if-archive/games/tads/diemasse.gam

And by the way, Masse wasn't disqualified; the author withdrew it for
reasons which you can read in that re-release announcement.

I don't think Escape from Auriga was re-released, but I also think it
would be good if it was.

Greg
 
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"Rowan Lipkovits" <growan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110974328.427473.258760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

> As they said (on the bottom) at The Non-Comp Review Project 2004
> (http://www.springthing.net/noncomp/noncomp2004.htm), "Escape from
> Auriga and Die Vollkommene Masse. I was going to include these games,
> which were entered into the IF Comp but were then both taken out for
> one reason or another. I realized, however, that neither of these games
> is publicly available anymore, so writing a review of them seems
> pointless." No longer being publicly available, have these titles
> effectively dropped off the IF map, potentially forever? (Or is it
> just left to me to petition their authors to re-release the games
> outside a compo context for posterity? 8)

I believe DVM is available in the archive now. Also, this was posted on
February 21st:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.int-fiction/msg/8cedee7f754e83cd

---- Mike.
 
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Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:

> Some sites are protected by the fair use doctrine, but this certainly

> doesn't apply to fan fiction. Fan fiction which incorporates
characters
> created by others but never actually quotes the original work may not
be in
> violation of copyright in the first place--I can't remember how this
works.

Two minor quibbles and then I'll leave this since I have no real
interest in a long copyright thread. I haven't seen any fan fiction
that is substantially the original work with minor changes rather than
that " which incorporates characters created by others but never
actually quotes the original work". And secondly I don't think that
anyone knows how it works. That is the legal status of fan-fiction is
not explicitly spelled out in any law or court decision that I am aware
of. Whatever may be eventually decided the general feeling of "there
is no point in getting cease-and-desist orders against most
non-comercial publication and it's free advertising anyway" is liable
to persist, IMO.

Cirk R. Bejnar
 
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On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:58:48 GMT, Rowan Lipkovits scrawled:

> As they said (on the bottom) at The Non-Comp Review Project 2004
> (http://www.springthing.net/noncomp/noncomp2004.htm), "Escape from
> Auriga and Die Vollkommene Masse. I was going to include these games,
> which were entered into the IF Comp but were then both taken out for
> one reason or another. I realized, however, that neither of these games
> is publicly available anymore, so writing a review of them seems
> pointless." No longer being publicly available, have these titles
> effectively dropped off the IF map, potentially forever? (Or is it
> just left to me to petition their authors to re-release the games
> outside a compo context for posterity? 8)
>

It's up to the author. Generally the competitions are intended to inspire
original creation - and basing something upon prior art (unless of course,
it is your own work) is not exactly fair, as the inspiration/basis is not
the author's own.

It could also be argued that it is partly due to the fact that comp games
are entered with the expectation of reward, be it monetary or otherwise -
which is largely where the copyright issue comes into play.

If publishing for your own enjoyment, and not expecting any kind of
reward, then it often comes as free advertising/publicity for the original
work - this is why so many sites containing fan-fiction for various
products still exist and are popular.

--
http://www.rexx.co.uk

To email me, visit the site.
 
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"Mike Snyder" <wyndo@prowler-pro.com> wrote in message
news:fo%Zd.11589$ju.5123@okepread07...
> ..... It's so much a copyright concern ....

Edit: It's *not* so much a copyright concern ....
 
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Greg Boettcher <WRITETOgregAT@gregboettcher.com> wrote:
> I don't think Escape from Auriga was re-released, but I also think it
> would be good if it was.

I note that the basic setup for Escape from Auriga is pretty generic and
as such it could "file the serial numbers off" and become a work that
stands just fine on its own.

--McMartin
 
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On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:35:12 GMT, Ben Rudiak-Gould scrawled:

> Rexx Magnus wrote:
>> Generally the competitions are intended to inspire
>> original creation - and basing something upon prior art (unless of
>> course, it is your own work) is not exactly fair, as the
>> inspiration/basis is not the author's own.
>
> I strongly disagree with this. *All* creative work builds on prior
> creative work. There cannot be art (sophisticated art, at least) without
> cultural referents. Media are created too: there would be no interactive
> fiction, or rock and roll, or oil painting, or literature, without tools
> created by others and artistic precedents set by others.
>
> Yes, many uninspired people try to steal other people's glory by
> plagiarising their work. Others use old art as an integral part of a
> highly creative new work. I don't think the ratio of the latter to the
> former is any different from the ratio of talented to untalented artists
> as a whole.

Ok, you got me there - I think I used the wrong word when I said
inspiration. It's completely feasible to be inspired by someone else's
work and create something totally original without apparently stealing or
re-using something that has already been created. I've done that in the
past (with traditional fiction) and used the ideas and sometimes locations
as an origin for my work, but moved off from that, rather than re-using
something that is technically someone else's intellectual property, so to
speak.

--
http://www.rexx.co.uk

To email me, visit the site.
 
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On 16 Mar 2005 12:29:24 -0800, Cirk R. Bejnar <eluchil404@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:
>
>> Some sites are protected by the fair use doctrine, but this certainly
>
>> doesn't apply to fan fiction. Fan fiction which incorporates
>characters
>> created by others but never actually quotes the original work may not
>be in
>> violation of copyright in the first place--I can't remember how this
>works.
>
>Two minor quibbles and then I'll leave this since I have no real
>interest in a long copyright thread. I haven't seen any fan fiction
>that is substantially the original work with minor changes rather than
>that " which incorporates characters created by others but never
>actually quotes the original work". And secondly I don't think that
>anyone knows how it works. That is the legal status of fan-fiction is
>not explicitly spelled out in any law or court decision that I am aware
>of. Whatever may be eventually decided the general feeling of "there
>is no point in getting cease-and-desist orders against most
>non-comercial publication and it's free advertising anyway" is liable
>to persist, IMO.
>
>Cirk R. Bejnar
>
There is one very common case of fanfic that almost certainly *is*
illegal, but not because of copyright. Certain franchises have
*trademarked* their characters, which makes it a different legal can
of worms.
 
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Rexx Magnus <trashcan@uk2.net>, you wrote on 16 Mar 2005 13:02:25 GMT:

>basing something upon prior art (unless of course,
>it is your own work) is not exactly fair, as the inspiration/basis is not
>the author's own.

Collage is a well-known and well-respected form in art.

--
Deze geheele aarde door ijzeren banden omspannen, met de
stoomvaartlijnen die als draden over de zeeën zijn getrokken,
Dezen wereldkloot in zijn tuimeling door het heelal breng ik U.
"Grashalmen", Walt Whitman, http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/14281
 
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Earlier, I asked:

> Is there a secret black market underground of "first
> edition", unexpurgated compo compilations, circulating
> the only known appearance of titles later deemed ineligible
> and never independently re-submitted to the archive?

Fan fiction tangents aside, the final answer to my overall question
seems to be:
No -- barring subsequent author-redistribution (as with Die Vollkommene
Masse), there is no collection or subsequent distribution of
disqualified and/or withdrawn compo titles, and if you weren't among
the first to pick up the judging compilation before it was weeded,
you're up a creek if you're interested in investigating these titles.

> No longer being publicly available, have these titles
> effectively dropped off the IF map, potentially forever?
> (Or is it just left to me to petition their authors to re-release
> the games outside a compo context for posterity? 8)

The conclusion then is "yes" to both of these? I suppose I'll get on
that, then.