Ultrabooks Will Be Zapped By Thunderbolt in 2Q12

Status
Not open for further replies.

burnley14

Distinguished
Apr 1, 2009
682
0
18,990
3
[citation][nom]Classzero[/nom]Thunderbolt is an Apple trademark, I think it has to be called something else.[/citation]
Nope, it's Intel.
 

classzero

Distinguished
Aug 25, 2011
434
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]Classzero[/nom]Thunderbolt is an Apple trademark, I think it has to be called something else.[/citation]

I am sorry, Intel does indeed own that trademark. Please disregard my previous post.
 

A Bad Day

Distinguished
Nov 25, 2011
2,256
0
19,790
2
On the plus side, now people can install external GPUs. The question is, who will manufacture external GPUs that can actually run games at reasonable FPS?
 

__-_-_-__

Distinguished
Feb 19, 2009
419
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]extremepcs[/nom]Why did Apple get an exclusive license for it again? Shame on you, Intel.[/citation]
that's not true. Actually there's already an old sony notebook with thunderbolt.

[citation][nom]kenyee[/nom]I still want 4 SODIMM slots in an UltrabooK :p[/citation]
you can already have that. and if you don't want an ultra you can have a notebook with 6 ram slots.

[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]On the plus side, now people can install external GPUs. The question is, who will manufacture external GPUs that can actually run games at reasonable FPS?[/citation]
you don't manufacture external gpu's. there isn't such a thing. you either use "internal" mxm notebook graphic cards as external (which is stupid since it's external you need a power source) or you use a desktop graphic card connected to the notebook.
the problem is always the connection. currently you can use mini pci-e and/or expresscard but that still limits the performance at about 50%. which is not bad.
thunderbolt will enable cards to have about 80% to 95%.
you can buy it here: http://www.hwtools.net/ they'll also make thunderbolt versions.
more info here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/418851-diy-egpu-experiences.html
there are more companies announcing external gpu's but usually most don't develop the product or the product is insanely expensive. hwtools is the way to go.

thunderbolt will truly revolutionize mobile computing. you can have a small portable ultrabook and when connected to an external graphic card you have a high-end desktop. you can always connect to an lcd and keyboard etc.

notebook manufacturers always avoided this from happening. they always avoided giving an upgrade path for graphic cards. mxm could deliver that and it's 10 years old. external gpu's were never and will never be implemented by notebook manufacturers. they make too much money just selling new notebooks then selling upgrades.
but by the force of technological improvements they can't resist anymore. someone will have the thunderbolt product and make millions. now we have an almost bottleneck free interface for adding external gpu's. now you can upgrade almost everything: gpu, cpu, hdd/ssd, ram, odd, wifi, mini-pci stuff etc.

I'm really looking forward to buy a cheap thunderbolt notebook so I can upgrade to a good cpu and add an external graphic card. then I'll sell my desktop.
 

inthere

Distinguished
Jul 28, 2006
132
0
18,680
0
You can also daisy chain external SSD's with Thunderbolt. There's a YouTube vid with 4 Lacies going for 1100mb/sec I believe.
 

danwat1234

Distinguished
Jun 13, 2008
1,392
0
19,310
9
I'm satisfied with Expresscard. I have Expresscard 1.0, 250MB's theoretical and a USB 3 card in it. Even though I'm a power user, I'm sure it'll be enough bandwidth for whatever I'd want to use my laptop for.

I guess Ultrabooks won't have expresscard 2.0, no space for even 34mm cards? If all utrabooks came with USB3, I don't think many people would complain about not having thunderbolt, as long as the ultrabook came with HDMI too.
 

livebriand

Distinguished
Apr 18, 2011
1,004
0
19,290
1
For most things, there's no reason to have this. USB 3.0 is cheap to implement and quite a few things already have it, plus it's backwards compatible with USB 2.0, which is everywhere. That said, it would be cool if you could just plug in a thunderbolt connector for a dock that has a few usb ports, video output (DVI, Displayport, and HDMI, with support for dual monitors), audio output (3.5mm, and maybe toslink), ethernet, and an external GPU. And better yet, maybe also extra CPU power... if that's even possible. Of course, I'm sure I'm dreaming...

I haven't heard anything about thunderbolt in desktops though (aside from the imac). Why's it all about laptops?
 

__-_-_-__

Distinguished
Feb 19, 2009
419
0
18,780
0
it isn't all notebooks. there will be desktop implementations. cpu power is impossible. but anyway you can upgrade the cpu. external upgrade the cpu doesn't make sense. also because they are very scalable in power and performance you can easily throttle up or down.

usb3.0 is good but isn't good enough. an external gpu with usb3.0 is still very bottlenecked. also most usb3.0 implementations have 1 controller and ports act like an hub so it's 5gbps divided by the number of ports.

expresscards are long time ditched by many manufacturers. even in non ultrabooks. also 2.0 implementations are rare. so most act like pci-e 1x 1.0 port which is slower then usb3.0.
 
G

Guest

Guest
USB3 doesn't come CLOSE to 5 gbps (it was like USB 2.0 claiming 480mbps and faster than Firewire 400a which it wasn't). Thunderbolt gets you 20gpbs 1 direction. Likely bandwidth improvements are in the 20x range. You couldn't possibly use USB3.0 for external GPUs with any kind of efficiency.
 

alidan

Splendid
Aug 5, 2009
5,303
0
25,780
0
think of thunderbolt in the dexktop segment though.

dell and them made decent computers, but the integrated graphics really kills them. imagine getting a dell, and having a clear upgrade path, like your parents get it for a kid and know nothing, they could get a 200 (im assuming a 150$ gpu and a a 50$ case and psu to power it, i mean a 150watt decent psu cant cost more than 50$ right?) you could effectively use a low end dell as a mid range gaming.

but not only that, what about people who make the mistake of getting a case to small and cant fit a high end gpu in it? it may not be for a while but soon enough this would hit 95%+ efficiantcy.

you could also get an exturnal gpu without upgrading your psu, for most people that would be close to a 100$ upgrade, but i cant see that a 300 or less watt psu would ever cost more than 50$, so if you dont care to much about looks, you could separate them... lets also not forget some of the gpu designs that the last few years gave us where they shoot hot air into the case... it would be better to have the gpu outside, and give it a better cooling solution.
 
G

Guest

Guest
I have not seen a lot of interest in Thunderbolt vs USB 3. See more USB 3 stuff out there. If you really need the extra data speed and flexibility Thunderbolt is nice. Probably see more peripherals for it when its out on more PC's then just Apple.
 

cobra5000

Distinguished
Apr 14, 2008
504
0
19,010
6
[citation][nom]TBoltGuy[/nom]USB3 doesn't come CLOSE to 5 gbps (it was like USB 2.0 claiming 480mbps and faster than Firewire 400a which it wasn't). Thunderbolt gets you 20gpbs 1 direction. Likely bandwidth improvements are in the 20x range. You couldn't possibly use USB3.0 for external GPUs with any kind of efficiency.[/citation]
Sorry, not believing one word, from a guy named TBoltGuy! At least until your TBolt-Kool-Aid mustache wears off...
 

gggplaya

Distinguished
[citation][nom]__-_-_-__[/nom]that's not true. Actually there's already an old sony notebook with thunderbolt.
you can already have that. and if you don't want an ultra you can have a notebook with 6 ram slots.
you don't manufacture external gpu's. there isn't such a thing. you either use "internal" mxm notebook graphic cards as external (which is stupid since it's external you need a power source) or you use a desktop graphic card connected to the notebook.the problem is always the connection. currently you can use mini pci-e and/or expresscard but that still limits the performance at about 50%. which is not bad.thunderbolt will enable cards to have about 80% to 95%.you can buy it here: http://www.hwtools.net/ they'll also make thunderbolt versions.more info here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/ga [...] ences.htmlthere are more companies announcing external gpu's but usually most don't develop the product or the product is insanely expensive. hwtools is the way to go.thunderbolt will truly revolutionize mobile computing. you can have a small portable ultrabook and when connected to an external graphic card you have a high-end desktop. you can always connect to an lcd and keyboard etc.notebook manufacturers always avoided this from happening. they always avoided giving an upgrade path for graphic cards. mxm could deliver that and it's 10 years old. external gpu's were never and will never be implemented by notebook manufacturers. they make too much money just selling new notebooks then selling upgrades.but by the force of technological improvements they can't resist anymore. someone will have the thunderbolt product and make millions. now we have an almost bottleneck free interface for adding external gpu's. now you can upgrade almost everything: gpu, cpu, hdd/ssd, ram, odd, wifi, mini-pci stuff etc.I'm really looking forward to buy a cheap thunderbolt notebook so I can upgrade to a good cpu and add an external graphic card. then I'll sell my desktop.[/citation]

You don't have to take it so literal. GPU stands for Graphics Processing Unit. The meaning can be as broad as a fully enclosed extenal unit, or just a PCIE graphics card. But yes, i do believe once thunderbolt is fully adopted, there will now be a market for an external GPU and companies will start making them, even laptop manufacturers. Sony is already planning on doing this, although their solution is really expensive. It does mean that manufacturers can design a slim and small laptop with great battery life, yet still be a powerhouse when docked at home doing 3d graphics, gaming, video, etc... They are no longer left with the compromise between size, battery life, and power. They can have both. Consumers can decide to buy the whole bundle, or buy them seperately based on need. Either way the company makes money, and only a few laptop manufacturers are worried about repeat business. Only Dell, HP and a few other major players can hold owner loyalty. Others will all be looking to get as much money out of you as they can on your initial purchase.

You're wrong about MXM. The reason it didn't take off is simply because of cooling, not because of money. Each upgrade even in today's video cards requires a substantle amount of cooling. Laptops are already designed to their cooling limit, throwing a bigger thermal dissapator into a smaller laptop requires some engineering for cooling. Not going to happen, laptop manufacturers will not support that either, it's asking for a warranty nightmare. Even the modders that did upgrade their video cards, had to do some sort of cooling mod too. Whereas an external GPU can have all the cooling power it needs.
 

__-_-_-__

Distinguished
Feb 19, 2009
419
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]gggplaya[/nom]You don't have to take it so literal. GPU stands for Graphics Processing Unit. The meaning can be as broad as a fully enclosed extenal unit, or just a PCIE graphics card. But yes, i do believe once thunderbolt is fully adopted, there will now be a market for an external GPU and companies will start making them, even laptop manufacturers. Sony is already planning on doing this, although their solution is really expensive. It does mean that manufacturers can design a slim and small laptop with great battery life, yet still be a powerhouse when docked at home doing 3d graphics, gaming, video, etc... They are no longer left with the compromise between size, battery life, and power. They can have both. Consumers can decide to buy the whole bundle, or buy them seperately based on need. Either way the company makes money, and only a few laptop manufacturers are worried about repeat business. Only Dell, HP and a few other major players can hold owner loyalty. Others will all be looking to get as much money out of you as they can on your initial purchase.You're wrong about MXM. The reason it didn't take off is simply because of cooling, not because of money. Each upgrade even in today's video cards requires a substantle amount of cooling. Laptops are already designed to their cooling limit, throwing a bigger thermal dissapator into a smaller laptop requires some engineering for cooling. Not going to happen, laptop manufacturers will not support that either, it's asking for a warranty nightmare. Even the modders that did upgrade their video cards, had to do some sort of cooling mod too. Whereas an external GPU can have all the cooling power it needs.[/citation]
you are wrong. mxm had 4 classes of devices each own with each size, power, tpd defined so that the manufacturers implement what they want. Even small 8" notebooks could have it. And they were interchangeable. you could use a type II mxm card on a IV slot.
Also your argument about cooling is stupid because all manufacturers implement mxm in one way or another. They simply lock the bios or solder the cards to the motherboard. You don't have a clue about how notebooks function. go check the mxm spec and come back.
 

gggplaya

Distinguished
[citation][nom]__-_-_-__[/nom]you are wrong. mxm had 4 classes of devices each own with each size, power, tpd defined so that the manufacturers implement what they want. Even small 8" notebooks could have it. And they were interchangeable. you could use a type II mxm card on a IV slot.Also your argument about cooling is stupid because all manufacturers implement mxm in one way or another. They simply lock the bios or solder the cards to the motherboard. You don't have a clue about how notebooks function. go check the mxm spec and come back.[/citation]

You have no clue about design and engineering. The whole point of an external GPU is that you can make a laptop small, lightweight, and battery efficient. Even if it was a medium size notebook with an mxm slot, you have to design the slot space to be modular. This adds size, bulk, and weight. It's not like a hard drive, or wifi card. You need to design the heat pipe, and heatsink along with the slot. Also make sure none of the peripherils in the area or palm rest get too hot from the added heat. More goes into laptop design then a simple specification for a slot and class card. If heat wasn't an issue, manufacturers would have jumped on board a long time ago. They wouldn't care if users change out the mxm card, they allow this option on their desktops because it wouldn't hurt anything. Laptops are different, and yes there are some cards that would be drop in plug and play, but you know there will be people that try to go outside the thermal limits and drop in a different card the laptop can't handle. Mostly gamers looking to get the best fps they can. If i were them, i would lock the bios too. To say they don't take thermal dissapation in account would be plain dumb. It's the only reason i can think of to prevent upgrades.

There really isn't much of a reason to upgrade your video card unless you're looking to jump to a higher class of card anyways. Future upgradability, maybe with a small marginal improvement in fps if you stay within the same class, but even on my desktop, i usually end up upgrading my processor and motherboard at the same intervals as my video card anyways. 2 years is a typical life cycle of gaming laptops. Less for some gamers.

I'm really looking at thunderbolt so i can travel with a small laptop, and play BF3 in the hotel room when i'm not working. It suits my needs perfectly. I'm not lugging around a huge laptop designed to house an ati 6970 to the airport, to meetings, library etc... Been there, done that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts