Understanding threading, Lanes, x8 / x16 and stuff

brandirawks

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I am trying to understand how to set up, configure, optimize a new build for video editing.

I am doing my first build and not sure how to:
1) allocate the threads properly for use of all cores
2) do pci lanes need set up or configed to prevent bottlenecking
3) How do I ensure my harware / system is set up to run my software the best it is able to

I normally buy pre-built Dells and they always run as I need, this build however DELL does not offer as I want ...

any direction to resources to read or step to setting up is appreciated
 
Solution
RAID 0 (striped) with SSD's is generally a wash over individual drives.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-raid-benchmark,3485.html

RAID 0 with NVMe drives can in fact be slower than individual drives.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-950-pro-256gb-raid-report,4449.html

RAID 1 (mirror) is only if you actually need 24/7 ops. Like if you were running a webstore, and need the system to limp along on the remaining drive until you can 'fix it'. In the unlikely event of a physical drive fail
It does nothing for the far more common ways to lose your data.

There are other, better, ways to protect your data.

SoggyTissue

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normally the bios is configured to use all threads and cores. (change this setting in bios).
you dont really have control over lanes as this is generally hard coded to the mobo and/or card you put in. (there are few exceptions).

control of the data is down to your program, it sends the data to get compiled/rendered, windows allocates the data packets to the number of cores/threads the program requests, the bios controls which cores and threads get used (all of them if your program requests it).

its like a game, programs are coded to use a certain number of cores or threads or both. if you got a game/program that is coded to use only 1 or 2 cores threaded, then thats all you will get even if you are sitting behind a 10 core cpu. and NO, programs wont tell you how many cores/threads they are coded for. its hidden information that many are unaware of. you can tell yourself by running a game and looking at core use .... a game only using 2 cores at 100% and playing smooth ... wouldnt it be better for your cpu to use 4 cores at 50%, 8 cores at 25%? ... but no it dont. QED. (overwatch is one of the first generation of games to use multi core and multi thread - hence why its so massively cpu intensive on lesser systems / possibly second gen but having seen how badly its cpu intensive i cant give it a 2nd gen approval).
 

brandirawks

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OK,so I need to make sure the mobo / processor have enough threads / lanes to run out of the box (so to speak)

i7 7820x Skylake
Asus x299 A
GTX 1080
Corsair Dom Ram @ 32 gig

That should do the trick without having to worry about "bios and stuf" I was worried about ...

 

SoggyTissue

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not in the gaming world, and i dont own one or know anyone who has one to tell you if they are better with compiling video.

i do know that ryzen require the very fastest RAM to work properly, else they suffer all manor of faults and/or bugs. just looking on past forum posts is enough evidence. steer clear if you want to avoid having to post an issue here, or have enough money to buy whatever you want without worry :)

im sure a ryzen user will pipe up sooner or later to say they are stable as a 3 legged stool.
 

brandirawks

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it seems that affter effects and ryzen don't mix well --- going to stay with intel and up the ram to 64 / 2x 4x 8 modules ....

My biggest concern is getting the board straight - voltage / bios this or that .......
 

SoggyTissue

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yea, this is why i had mine built for me, a similar system to what you probably aiming for (mines a little old now though), though due to my slight overclock, i disabled the threading (in bios) to stop the cores getting too hot even though i have a liquid cooler.
 

brandirawks

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How's this look

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-7820X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($574.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($88.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - X299 AORUS Gaming 7 ATX LGA2066 Motherboard ($399.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston - FURY 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($630.61 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($233.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($233.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda Pro 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($127.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda Pro 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($174.85 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB ROG STRIX Video Card ($549.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair - HX Platinum 1000W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($199.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus - BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($109.88 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro Full 32/64-bit ($189.00 @ B&H)
Total: $3513.32
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-21 18:41 EDT-0400
 

SoggyTissue

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thats psoibly the most insane (good) pc build request ive seen in a long time :)

dont know why you want the 1080 though? a 1070 would be fine, but i guess that if youre going to spend that much on a pc, it better be the best gpu too.
 
I agree, that's an incredibly solid, and terribly capable system build, if that's really what you're looking at doing. The only question I have really is why you'd choose Windows 10 Pro over Home? There are really only three things Pro offers that Home doesn't.

1. Bitlocker encryption
2. Remote desktop connection
3. Windows update for business

Unless one of those features appeals to you for some reason, and you're willing to pay an extra 90 bucks for it (And there are plenty of third party applications that will give you two of the three features, usually for free), then I'd think sticking with the standard Home version makes more sense. That is of course totally up to you. You might have a good reason for choosing Pro because you need one or more of those features but even the majority of business users wouldn't ever use them.


When it comes time to assemble and configure things, we'll be glad to offer up a plethora of guides, tutorials and for what it's worth, opinions based on our own experiences and knowledge.
 

brandirawks

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The OS is incorrect - W 7 Pro will be used - I don't know my wife works in IT and when it comes to that part she handles it. The build is designed "I hope" to where I do not need to touch it for awhile. Like I said this one now is 2009, with ram addition and a gtx 750ti and I really can't go further with it. The programs are changing, I just need more HP and dont want to do it again for awhile .... is it overkill?
 
I don't know that it's "overkill", but you could certainly do something just as good for less. I like your build. It incorporates a lot of very good hardware. But it's also an older CPU platform and might, probably, not support as many of the newer video codecs as some of the newer platforms do.

Skylake-X only has partial HEVC Main10/10bit decoding acceleration and partial VP9 encoding/decoding acceleration. Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake processors have full support for these codecs/standards.

Skylake accelerated 1080p HEVC encoding and decoding natively in hardware, but it lacked dedicated support for 4K HEVC encoding/decoding at 10-bit depths, or VP9 decoding—two things that Kaby Lake does natively in hardware.

These advances are important for the same reason that Netflix and Google have led the way toward using both codecs: They provide equivalent video quality at a fraction of the bandwidth, especially as 4K video becomes more widespread. On Monday, for example, Netflix performed an in-depth technical examination of three of the most popular video codecs. Netflix found that HEVC delivers all of the video quality of the older AVC codec that Skylake supported, but at 50 percent of the bandwidth.

That means the amount of data your bandwidth cap chews up on account of video streaming could be half of what it is now, without a noticeable change in quality—but it would require significantly more computational horsepower from your PC. What Kaby Lake promises is that the new dedicated video block won’t actually impede your PC’s performance.

That translates into two advantages, according to Intel: first, a tangible improvement in video decoding and encoding. Naturally, a Kaby Lake system will be able to decode 4K video at 60 frames per second—or up to eight 4K streams at 30 fps.But even the ultra-low-power Y-series will be able to encode 4K video at 30 frames per second, Intel said.

Since you've indicated video editing and encoding as one of your primary considerations, and factoring in the support for Skylake-X in the long term, you might want a newer platform. You might also want to re-think using Windows 7.

For one, it's unlikely to support some of the future video codecs well or in some cases, possibly at all. Plus, support for it is ending soon which will mean that at that point you'll lose any capability for windows updates aside from those deemed as critical security updates. Personally, since the bugs have been mainly worked out of Windows 10 by now and since we know how to disable 99% of it's reporting techniques, I see little reason for clinging to the older operating systems but again that is completely up to you and I understand defering to you wife's position as a member of the IT community, however, many of the folks in IT tend to get stuck in a rut when it comes to operating system upgrading or what exactly is supported because many companies stay on the same OS for MANY years after it is no longer sensible or practical to do so, mainly due to the cost of implementation on what is usually a considerable number of systems.

Nothing is future proof, we know this well, but you might really consider going with something that isn't already superceded by two newer platforms regardless that the 7820x was released Q2 of this year.

Also, I see no case listed. I can guarantee that any prebuilt case you might have is unlikely to support a big cooler like the NH-D15, unless it's one that came with a large mid-tower or full tower case. Also, many of those prebuilt systems used proprietary power supplies, especially coming from Dell, and it's possible that a standard ATX power supply may not fit that OEM case. Knowing what case you had, or getting a new case might also be things to consider.


The 7820x does have some benefits though. It has a higher multithreaded performance, due of course to it's additional cores and threads. It also supports quad channel memory while the current Coffee Lake offerings only support dual channel, although this is not necessarily something that will have a major impact, it is a minor performance consideration.

You might also consider ditching the hard drives and replacing them will large capacity SSDs. Expensive, yes, BUT the performance difference for applications that do a lot of reading and writing like those you are doing will majorly benefit from the much higher speeds AND the longevity of modern SSD technology is probably on par with the amount of time I'd trust a mechanical hard drive, fully, with my important information anyhow.
 

brandirawks

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We did discuss W7 yesterday and going to W10, I pointed out the same concerns you mentioned - Her concern is my aggravation with a new OS, creature of habit. Nope her work is 100% industry up to date, and beyond -

Case, figured I would worry about that later. Will not be using a prebuilt -

Processor is not as easy - After effects (CPU Intense) Premiere Pro (GPU Intense) 3rd party plug ins (who knows)

I like the 7820x for the cores and threading / honestly I don't understand the rest - lanes, memory bandwidth, PCI
x 16, 8 ???

The 8700 is way huge better than what I have (i7 920 ha ha ha) 4c/8T/25 Memory bandwidth so either are a def upgrade, the 7820x has the big core and thread count ...

I do not work with 4K - specialize in business web use productions / in company training videos / Public access Television

What I do is look at the program needs, read through forums for good and bad on "custom builds", what I have and how it does not work, what jobs / work I have coming up and what the next year looks like for work - Jump in TH and read / read / read to try and understand ....... ask questions and make a decision.

Going to keep researching / most everything I am reading is i7 7820x or Ryzen is the way to go - However I don't want AMD

any more information / links or direction anyone can offer is always appreciated
 
Well, that all makes sense and is a pretty no-nonsense approach. Would that more people did the same and we'd have a lot less wasted time on questions that have been asked 100 times before so kudos on that.

As far as the CPU is concerned, if you have zero probability of needing solid 4k support then there is really not a lot to gain by going with Coffee Lake aside from a small IPC improvement so perhaps your build is the better option after all. I will say however that you might want to really think about whether the need for 4k will change for you going forward. Not that long ago 1080p was uncommon. Three years ago few people used or worked with 1440p resolutions. Right now 4k is moving into the mainstream on television, web and gaming platforms. You may be working in 4k sooner than you think.


Either way you decide to go, I think you'll have what you need and that you've gone about it in the right way putting in the work to do the research. If there is anything specific I can help you find answers to, just let me know. Good luck.
 
Because it is an enthusiast/gaming platform. More RAM than that is not beneficial to any provable extent for gaming and mainstream applications. If you want extensive support for RAM capacity you have to go with the professional or productivity/workstation platform motherboards of which there are as of yet, none, for Coffee Lake. I'd expect we'll be seeing some down the road but it may be a while. Honestly, if this is something you want to pull the trigger on in the near future, I'd probably either stick to what you have lined out now or wait to see what comes with Coffee Lake X, which should bring all of the IPC improvements, optimizations and additional cores along with possibly higher clock speed potential.

Truly, aside from those few limitations I described earlier with the 4k encoding and decoding, I think your choice of CPU is just about the best balance of performance and cost that's currently available. Even the Threadripper 1950x at 999.00 seems to just barely trade blows with the 7820x even in multithreaded comparisons.
 

brandirawks

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Jan 28, 2013
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Yes, this week I would like to order parts or find a builder to handle it for me ... I am going to stay with the 7820x, make a few adjustments in the build ... If I need some 4K editing I can always build a dedicated rig for that "Ryzen" for around $1200.00 and then be really fancy ...... I will post up what I hope is the final build ...
 

brandirawks

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Finalized, I think this will see my needs through for a few years ....



CPU: Intel - Core i7-7820X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($574.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($88.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - X299 AORUS Gaming 7 ATX LGA2066 Motherboard ($399.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64GB (8 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($756.37 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($233.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($233.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($299.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($299.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB ROG STRIX Video Card ($549.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair - HX Platinum 1000W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($199.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus - BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($109.88 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro Full 32/64-bit ($189.00 @ B&H)
Total: $3934.35
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-23 09:41 EDT-0400
 

brandirawks

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Researching boards - I have two choices GIGABYTE X299 AORUS Gaming 7 or the ASUS PRIME X299-A LGA2066 / the asus I think will be just fine for my needs as I don't need all the gaming stuff, RGB, water cool, audio, on board video or OC..... Thoughts?
 
Think you might have linked the wrong page. That link goes to an M.2 PCI card? Why would you be looking at that? The X299-A already has two storage capable M.2 slots.

Intel® X299 Chipset :
1 x M.2 x4 Socket 3, with M key, type 2242/2260/2280 storage devices support (SATA & PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode)
1 x M.2 x4 Socket 3, with M key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 storage devices support (PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode)
8 x SATA 6Gb/s port(s)
Support Raid 0, 1, 5, 10
Supports Intel® Smart Response Technology, Intel Rapid Start Technology
Intel® Optane™ Memory Ready


Also, yes, the X299-A is perfectly fine. In fact, the ASUS TUFF X299 Mark 2 would even be a good choice. The TUFF boards are the equivalent of what used to be the Sabertooth boards, and they are extremely good boards with good features, solid components, excellent for overclocking if you want to do that but they lack some of the features found on many of the higher end gaming boards, which is clearly not a deal breaker for you.

It also has two storage M.2 slots.
 

brandirawks

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I would remove the two Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drives @ $600.00 add this with 4 500gig M.2

If I understand this card it will make things for video faster / faster / faster access to raw footage / edited project / animated graphics