"Until End of Turn"

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Say there are only two creatures in play, a Suntail Hawk and a
Timberwatch Elf, and I control them both.

During my opponent's End of Turn phase, I tap my Timberwatch Elf to
give my Hawk +1/+1. How long does that last? My impression is that it
lasts until the _next_ End of Turn phase. In other words, it lasts
through his End of Turn (which was already underway) plus my Untap,
Upkeep, Draw, etc... If so, I should be able to tap my Elf for another
+1/+1 after my Untap step, making my Hawk a combined +2/+2 until my
End of Turn. Correct?

Thanks,
-Trevor.

Timberwatch Elf
{2}{G}
Creature -- Elf
1/2
{T}: Target creature gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the
number of Elves in play.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

kentstr04@yahoo.com (TJB) writes:
> Say there are only two creatures in play, a Suntail Hawk and a
> Timberwatch Elf, and I control them both.
>
> During my opponent's End of Turn phase, I tap my Timberwatch Elf to
> give my Hawk +1/+1. How long does that last?

Until the "until end of turn" effects wear off during your opponent's
cleanup step.

> My impression is that it lasts until the _next_ End of Turn
> phase. In other words, it lasts through his End of Turn (which was
> already underway) plus my Untap, Upkeep, Draw, etc... If so, I
> should be able to tap my Elf for another +1/+1 after my Untap step,
> making my Hawk a combined +2/+2 until my End of Turn. Correct?

No. You're mixing up "At end of turn" with "Until end of turn", which
is a common mistake... Things that trigger "at end of turn" will
trigger at the beginning of the next End step, which could be on the
next turn. Durations of things that last "until end of turn" will
always wear off on the current turn.

For the full details on how everything at the end of turn works, see
rules 312 through 314 in the Comprehensive Rules
(http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules).

> Thanks,

You're very welcome. Please post again if this
> -Trevor.
>
> Timberwatch Elf
> {2}{G}
> Creature -- Elf
> 1/2
> {T}: Target creature gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the
> number of Elves in play.

--
Peter C.
"Subtlety is when you move the queen to two spaces from the piece it's
attacking instead of one."
-- Me & Jessi
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

kentstr04@yahoo.com (TJB) writes:
> Say there are only two creatures in play, a Suntail Hawk and a
> Timberwatch Elf, and I control them both.
>
> During my opponent's End of Turn phase, I tap my Timberwatch Elf to
> give my Hawk +1/+1. How long does that last?

Until the "until end of turn" effects wear off during your opponent's
cleanup step.

> My impression is that it lasts until the _next_ End of Turn
> phase. In other words, it lasts through his End of Turn (which was
> already underway) plus my Untap, Upkeep, Draw, etc... If so, I
> should be able to tap my Elf for another +1/+1 after my Untap step,
> making my Hawk a combined +2/+2 until my End of Turn. Correct?

No. You're mixing up "At end of turn" with "Until end of turn", which
is a common mistake... Things that trigger "at end of turn" will
trigger at the beginning of the next End step, which could be on the
next turn. Durations of things that last "until end of turn" will
always wear off on the current turn, during the Cleanup step.

For the full details on how everything at the end of turn works, see
rules 312 through 314 in the Comprehensive Rules
(http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules).

> Thanks

You're very welcome. Please post again if this doesn't clear things up
or if you have any more questions.

--
Peter C.
"This specification allows any of these approaches. Solving the
Halting Problem is considered extra credit."
-- RFC 3028, "Sieve: A Mail Filtering Language"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 9 Apr 2004 19:20:11 -0700, TJB <kentstr04@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Say there are only two creatures in play, a Suntail Hawk and a
>Timberwatch Elf, and I control them both.
>
>During my opponent's End of Turn phase, I tap my Timberwatch Elf to
>give my Hawk +1/+1. How long does that last?

Until Cleanup step starts. And there _will_ be a Cleanup step this turn
after you do this; Cleanup step is after end-of-turn step, in End phase (not
"End of Turn phase"), and if for some reason you're doing this during Cleanup
step then the rules mandate that there will be -another- Cleanup step after
the current one.

There is no way to get an "until end of turn" or 'this turn' duration to
last past the end of a turn. Note that this is very different from when "at
end of turn" abilities, which are TRIGGERED abilities, trigger...

>My impression is that it
>lasts until the _next_ End of Turn phase. In other words, it lasts
>through his End of Turn (which was already underway) plus my Untap,
>Upkeep, Draw, etc...

Nope. It wears off the moment you hit Cleanup step... still in his turn. So
the Hawk will be bigger for only a short while, and will be smaller again
before your turn can start at all.

>If so, I should be able to tap my Elf for another
>+1/+1 after my Untap step, making my Hawk a combined +2/+2 until my
>End of Turn. Correct?

No, since an "until end of turn" effect can't ever last into another turn. See
section 313-314 for details on how the End phase, and the steps in it, work; in
particular see 314.2 . 314.3 details how you get more Cleanup steps if needed.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"TJB" <kentstr04@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c332a7a8.0404091820.69e4500@posting.google.com...
> Say there are only two creatures in play, a Suntail Hawk and a
> Timberwatch Elf, and I control them both.
>
> During my opponent's End of Turn phase, I tap my Timberwatch Elf to
> give my Hawk +1/+1. How long does that last?

It lasts until the end of the current turn.

> My impression is that it
> lasts until the _next_ End of Turn phase. In other words, it lasts
> through his End of Turn (which was already underway) plus my Untap,
> Upkeep, Draw, etc... If so, I should be able to tap my Elf for another
> +1/+1 after my Untap step, making my Hawk a combined +2/+2 until my
> End of Turn. Correct?
>

No, this is not correct. "Until end of turn" effects _always_ end during the
turn they were played.

You are probably thinking about triggered abilities of the "At end of turn"
format. If any such are created during an End Step, they will not go on the
stack until the next turn's End Step. This doesn't apply to effects with a
duration such as "until end of turn" effects.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

TJB sez:

<<
>During my opponent's End of Turn phase, I tap my Timberwatch Elf to
>give my Hawk +1/+1.
>
>>

....no, you can't. Well, you CAN, but it'll get wiped away in cleanup. There's
a difference between AT end of turn and UNTIL end of turn (which was a loophole
that Waylay had to be errata'd for...) At end of turn ends when the End of
turn step begins. Until end of turn ends when the Cleanup step begins, and
that happens AFTER the End of turn step ends.


----
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
--Sigmund Freud
"Sometimes a cake is just a cake."
--Deanna Troi, Star Trek: TNG: "Phantasms"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Andy Jakcsy <djaxmann@aol.computer> wrote:
>TJB sez:
>>During my opponent's End of Turn phase, I tap my Timberwatch Elf to
>>give my Hawk +1/+1.
>...no, you can't. Well, you CAN, but it'll get wiped away in cleanup. There's
>a difference between AT end of turn and UNTIL end of turn (which was a loophole
>that Waylay had to be errata'd for...) At end of turn ends when the End of

"triggers", not "ends".

>turn step begins. Until end of turn ends when the Cleanup step begins, and
>that happens AFTER the End of turn step ends.

"At end of turn do this" is a triggered ability, 'cuz it starts with "when",
"whenever", or "at", and triggers as end-of-turn step starts. So if a new
"at end of turn" ability appears after that, it has to wait until the next
time an end-of-turn step starts, before it can trigger.

"do this until end of turn" is just a duration on the 'do this', lasting
until Cleanup step, and you can't get out of a turn without a Cleanup step
occurring to end this duration.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
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