Upcoming Coffee Lake chips

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

So it seems like Intel is branching off from their tradition of making really fast quad cores in the i7 line and is now making the 8th gen, hex-core processors.

I was planning on upgrading to that from my 6700k to get more performance out of my Blizzard games, but it doesn't look like that may be prudent any longer...

I am already OC'd to 4.7GHz on my 6700k, which is supposedly what the 8700K will turbo-boost to on a single core (not sure what they mean by that)

So what the heck? Is it going to even be worth upgrading? Should I just wait for 9th gen.? And that's assuming they will go back and make more fast quad-cores again...

My problem is that I mostly (almost exclusively) play Blizzard games, which are straight garbage when it comes to optimization, and the pieces of crap only use a single core for 80-90% of the work, so I am even struggling to keep them over 60fps during intense parts of the game. What I needed is a FAST quad-core that could boost over 5.0GHz which would at least allow me to stay above 60fps always in those games (I can and do drop below 60fps quite often, especially in WoW raids and with a big army on Starcraft II), but it doesn't look like that's going to happen now...


I really am not sure what the meaning of this is either;
"...the Core i7-8700K is an unlocked 6-core/12-thread chip with 12MB of L3 cache and a 95W TDP. It is the fastest of the bunch with a 3.7GHz base clock, 4.3GHz Turbo clock on all six cores, and a 4.7GHz Turbo clock in single-core mode. When activating two cores, it can hit 4.6GHz, while the Turbo clock for four cores is 4.4GHz."

Does this mean the chip boots cores individually based on which ones are being used?? Or that you can choose a mode to run it in?? I've never heard of this.

Does this mean overclocking will totally ruin this?

Also, since technically Blizzard is using 4 cores (but only one for the most part) does that mean that my current CPU would actually be FASTER since I have 4.7GHz on 4 cores, where the 8700K would only be able to achieve 4.4?

Also how would overclocking even work on this? How would I even go about increasing only the speeds of a few cores, because I doubt I can overclock it anywhere close to 5.0GHz on all cores? It seems like it would be so much more complicated...

The only reason for me to even buy a new CPU is if I can OC it past 5.0GHz.
So what is the best move here? Right now I think I'm closer to just buying a 7700K and keeping my board and RAM, where I was going to buy all new stuff with an 8th gen.

 

[faalin]

What are your system specs?

I just played StarCraft 2 and diablo 3 with 2 friends over the weekend and had the game on highest graphic settings without issues, all of us were at 1080p
I ran a 2600k (stock speed) with a 780ti classified
Friend 1 was on a i7 3770 with a 670 4gb superclock+
friend 2 was on a 4670 with a 670 4gb superclock+

I no longer play WOW so I cant comment on that.

 

[geofelt]

If you can OC your i7-6700K, you have a motherboard that with a bios update can run a I5-7600K or I7-7700K.
Either one has a 50/50 chance of a 5.0 overclock.
Plus, there are minor IPC improvements.
As of 6/19/17
What percent of samples can get an overclock
at a vcore around 1.4v.
I5-7600K
5.3 samples exist, unknown % of occurrence
5.2 16%
5.1 27%
5.0 52%
4.9 72%

I7-7700K
4.9 83%
5.0 62%
5.1 29%
5.2 6%

You can buy a guaranteed 5.0 + overclock chip at a premium price from silicon lottery or other outfits.
https://siliconlottery.com/collections/lga-1151
Ask, they may well have 7600K chips available.

As I see it, the upcoming coffee lake processors are about adding cores/threads to compete with ryzen and not for faster clocks or ipc.

We will have to wait for cannon lake 10nm for that. Looks like 2018.

 

[Dooop805]

The 8th gen. chips are supposed to be on the same socket and it's likely you'll be able to flash bios on your existing motherboard.

 

[captaincharisma]

the I7 7700K as of right now is still the top CPU when it comes to gaming so a CPU like the 6700K will still be a great gaming CPU for several years. a CPU like coffelake and ryzen with more cores would be more of a future proofing move but its not something you need to jump into right away.

since its still going to be on the same socket i may upgrade to coffeelake but not for a few years

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

What are your system specs?

I just played StarCraft 2 and diablo 3 with 2 friends over the weekend and had the game on highest graphic settings without issues, all of us were at 1080p
I ran a 2600k (stock speed) with a 780ti classified
Friend 1 was on a i7 3770 with a 670 4gb superclock+
friend 2 was on a 4670 with a 670 4gb superclock+

I no longer play WOW so I cant comment on that.

Specs are in my sign. but in short I have more than enough to run anything. i7 6700k @4.7GHz, 1080 Ti, but I play at 3440x1440, well over 1080p, its almost 4k.
Normally, (probably a solid 90% of the time) I am at 100fps (100Hz monitor) but pretty often it will drop below 90, and the more that is going on, the more it drops. Doesn't help that the CPU is the bottleneck for games like these. Same thing with WoW, because they use a single core for 80-90% of the workload.

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

If you can OC your i7-6700K, you have a motherboard that with a bios update can run a I5-7600K or I7-7700K.
Either one has a 50/50 chance of a 5.0 overclock.
Plus, there are minor IPC improvements.
As of 6/19/17
What percent of samples can get an overclock
at a vcore around 1.4v.
I5-7600K
5.3 samples exist, unknown % of occurrence
5.2 16%
5.1 27%
5.0 52%
4.9 72%

I7-7700K
4.9 83%
5.0 62%
5.1 29%
5.2 6%

You can buy a guaranteed 5.0 + overclock chip at a premium price from silicon lottery or other outfits.
https://siliconlottery.com/collections/lga-1151
Ask, they may well have 7600K chips available.

As I see it, the upcoming coffee lake processors are about adding cores/threads to compete with ryzen and not for faster clocks or ipc.

We will have to wait for cannon lake 10nm for that. Looks like 2018.

My 6700K is overclocked to 4.7GHz currently. At the "safe" voltage limit of 1.4v already so going up is not an option. Great insight into the silicon lottery though. I may have to check that out. If I can OC a 7700K to 5.1GHz that would give me an 8.5% increase in core speed over my current chip, and that would equate to about 7-8fps minimum fps increase, which would definitely put my minimum fps over 60fps for everything.

I think I will have to wait for what OC'd 8700Ks can do before deciding unfortunately... I hate waiting....

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

The 8th gen. chips are supposed to be on the same socket and it's likely you'll be able to flash bios on your existing motherboard.

Yeah but there are other benefits to the 300 chipsets. For example, the shared lanes for M.2 and SATA ports already makes me want to get a 200 series board. If I upgraded to 8th gen I would definitely want to upgrade to 300 series board too. I would LOVE to get another M.2 SSD.

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

the I7 7700K as of right now is still the top CPU when it comes to gaming so a CPU like the 6700K will still be a great gaming CPU for several years. a CPU like coffelake and ryzen with more cores would be more of a future proofing move but its not something you need to jump into right away.

since its still going to be on the same socket i may upgrade to coffeelake but not for a few years

That's my thinking as well...

I really want to see how Coffee Lake OC's, because I am really looking for the fastest per-core speeds I can find. I really hope they make some really fast quad-cores soon, they have to realize the 7700k is still the best gaming CPU around. In a lot of ways this 8700K is a step down. Especially for gaming. Newer, well optimized games, it probably runs circles around my CPU, but for games like I play, it will be worse, unless I can put a good OC on at least 4 cores.

With the OC I have on my current CPU I maybe have another year of it being able to hit 4.7GHz under 1.4v So I will need to upgrade sooner rather than later. Cannonlake may be my only other option.

 

[faalin]

From what I could find if you leave the cpus stock

6700k will boost all 4 cores to 4.2Ghz
7700k will boost core 0 to 4.5Ghz and the last 3 to 4.4Ghz, this is negated once you start manually overclocking since you can force all 4 cores to run at the same speed.

I guessing you will be able to do this as well with the gen 8 cpus as well. That is only speculation since there are no reviews out to back this up. The downside is now you have 6 cores at a set speed giving off heat instead of just a few fast cores.


The last time I really sat down and did some OC'ing was on the gen 1's had a 950 at 4.9GHz but could only get the 980x to 4.2Ghz. I have a sneaking suspicion that with more cores you wound be seeing the 5.0Ghz being run on these unless you have some extreme cooling.

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

From what I could find if you leave the cpus stock

6700k will boost all 4 cores to 4.2Ghz
7700k will boost core 0 to 4.5Ghz and the last 3 to 4.4Ghz, this is negated once you start manually overclocking since you can force all 4 cores to run at the same speed.

I guessing you will be able to do this as well with the gen 8 cpus as well. That is only speculation since there are no reviews out to back this up. The downside is now you have 6 cores at a set speed giving off heat instead of just a few fast cores.


The last time I really sat down and did some OC'ing was on the gen 1's had a 950 at 4.9GHz but could only get the 980x to 4.2Ghz. I have a sneaking suspicion that with more cores you wound be seeing the 5.0Ghz being run on these unless you have some extreme cooling.

I have decent cooling, probably the best AIO liquid you can get, can't get any better without a custom loop, or dellidding the CPU.

Guess I'm just going to have to wait and see what kind of speeds people are able to get.

 

[Dooop805]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-S-H-CPU-Delid-Tool-for-Kabylake-Skylake-Devils-Canyon-and-Haswell-/182648370920?epid=27004573112&hash=item2a86b0f6e8:g:GwYAAOSwKoRZYBb3

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-S-H-CPU-Delid-Tool-for-Kabylake-Skylake-Devils-Canyon-and-Haswell-/182648370920?epid=27004573112&hash=item2a86b0f6e8:g:GwYAAOSwKoRZYBb3

I have no intention of doing it myself.

If anything I would buy one already done. But I also can't justify spending $500 for a CPU that would only perform marginally better than the one I have now.

 

[androbourne]

In theory. Each Gen from Intel has only rose about 5-15% in performance. Generally the 5% mark in IPC.

If this trend continues. Which is most likely will with Coffeelake. I highly doubt it will warranty a jump from a i7 6700k to a new Coffelake CPU.

Games overall are still pretty strong on single core performance. In the future with newer API's that can actually handle muti-threading better. That may change. But as things are now. I'd have to say no, its not worth upgrading from an i7 6700k.

Also in terms of OCing. Look at the common denominator here. This applies to both Intel and AMD. When there is more cores\threads there tends to be lower single core rates and visa versa. In order for OC to be worth it on Coffeelake with 8 cores. It would need to be atleast a stock of 4.0GHz across all cores, so it can overclock higher then a 6700k.

Just look at Ryzen. They are on the lead of muti-threading and dont have stock clocks of 4.0ghz for their chips. I highly doubt Coffelake will be the one to break this barrier.

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

In theory. Each Gen from Intel has only rose about 5-15% in performance. Generally the 5% mark in IPC.

If this trend continues. Which is most likely will with Coffeelake. I highly doubt it will warranty a jump from a i7 6700k to a new Coffelake CPU.

Games overall are still pretty strong on single core performance. In the future with newer API's that can actually handle muti-threading better. That may change. But as things are now. I'd have to say no, its not worth upgrading from an i7 6700k.

Also in terms of OCing. Look at the common denominator here. This applies to both Intel and AMD. When there is more cores\threads there tends to be lower single core rates and visa versa. In order for OC to be worth it on Coffeelake with 8 cores. It would need to be atleast a stock of 4.0GHz across all cores, so it can overclock higher then a 6700k.

Just look at Ryzen. They are on the lead of muti-threading and dont have stock clocks of 4.0ghz for their chips. I highly doubt Coffelake will be the one to break this barrier.

Well it will turbo-boost up to 4.3GHz on all cores. But yeah all of that is true. The only reason I am considering upgrading is because 1. I can afford it without a problem. 2. I'm tired of playing games and getting these massive FPS drops because it can't use my CPU fully. So basically I am just trying to powerhouse through the crap.

Another reason is that with the OC I have, the lifespan of the CPU is shortening every day I use it, which is pretty much every day. I doubt in a year it will be able to clock to 4.7GHz at 1.4v, and I can't raise the voltage any more because it would not be safe, and I'm already past what most people say the safe thermal limit is for stress testing, even though gaming temps are significantly lower. But I do hit 87C under heavy stress loads. which most people say keep it under 80C.

Anyways I will need to look into a new processor by 9th get at the latest. I just really hope they come out with a fast enough quad-core that will meet my needs.

 

[androbourne]

Make sense but. I don't know what kind of bottlenecks you would be receiving while using a 6700k that is OC'ed on a single card. Only real bottlenecks would most likely be from using SLI or Crossfire with more then one card. I havn't looked at bottlenecks benchmarks from a new 1080ti card with a 6700k but I highly doubt that is the case. But it could be possible.

As for OC and life. Well if you have a good cooler and keeping temps at a reasonable range. There is no reason to worry about the CPU. Those things, even when OC'ed tend to out least the life of the motherboard. Just treat it right and and it will love you long time.

What card are you using? Just curious.

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

Make sense but. I don't know what kind of bottlenecks you would be receiving while using a 6700k that is OC'ed on a single card. Only real bottlenecks would most likely be from using SLI or Crossfire with more then one card. I havn't looked at bottlenecks benchmarks from a new 1080ti card with a 6700k but I highly doubt that is the case. But it could be possible.

As for OC and life. Well if you have a good cooler and keeping temps at a reasonable range. There is no reason to worry about the CPU. Those things, even when OC'ed tend to out least the life of the motherboard. Just treat it right and and it will love you long time.

What card are you using? Just curious.

Im using a 1080 Ti. (rest of my build is in my sig)

Most of the time I can run at 100Hz no issues, assuming it isn't locked lower or something (Like Skyrim locked at 60, and unlocking it [like I did with Fallout 4] makes the game faster and introduces too many problems, which I don't like). But there are a few cases where I can't, and almost every case the CPU is the bottleneck. Mostly bad optimizations. There are very few cases where the 1080 Ti can't hit 100Hz 3440x1440. The problem is I mostly play WoW and Starcraft II, and those games only use 1 core for the majority of its processes. So it really puts a huge strain on it. I still get more fps than most people xD, but I'm not satisfied with it.

The only games I have absolutely any trouble with;

World of Warcraft (raids and highly populated areas, fps 50-70 depending, single core usage 85-95% other cores barely used, GPU usage 40-50% depending on area. Low populated areas 200+ fps)
Starcraft II (Usually at 100fps, occasionally with larger armies my fps drops, with REALLY big armies it will drop to about 55fps, again a single core usage is at 85-95%, other cores barely, GPU usage 40-55%)
Fallout 4 (in downtown boston areas, will drop to like 60fps for unknown reasons, CPU usage pretty high across all cores/threads, GPU usage like 85%. Pretty heavy strain on all parts of the system but nothing sticks out as being a bottleneck, this is a complete mystery.)
Assassins Creed Syndicate (def a GPU bottleneck, this game is hardcore. GPU usage at 99% when it can't hit 100fps)
Battlefield 1 (another GPU bottleneck, constantly at 99% or higher GPU usage, only get 110 fps average in campaign, about 70 min fps. CPU utilization even across all cores.)

Anyways yeah. It does its job great, but I just try to muscle through the crap really. Few cases where the 6700k can't hang, and it's entirely the games' fault, it's not a bad CPU AT ALL IN ANY CASE.

 

[androbourne]

Yeah I get ya.

It really does suck that games have those limitations still. Being stuck on single core processing is just a pain for everyone. But that's why DX12 and Vulkan our out and newer games are utilizing the new APIs to take advantage of those extra cores.

I get you're in hopes that Coffelake will fix that single core limitation. But I'm doubtful. It will just be a general CPU, most likely at the 4.0GHz with just more cores.

Currently your only real hope is to jump to an i7700k and OC the crap out of out. It can OC better then the 6700k. But its hard for me to make that recommendation since its not a newer chipset and in every other field of computing. That is not a jump worth making.

So I see the boat you are in. It sucks but that is our limitation with our current technology and I'd suspect with our nearest technology as well.

A vendor will need to come up with a completely new scheme before any real changes are made. They keep just lowering dyes and MM processes. They can only go so low while keeping core rates only so high. I think its time to redesign a CPU from the ground up to accommodate needs of both high single core processing and muti-threaded performance with one chip.

Which may require something alone the lines of a Threadripping size single CPU etc... whatever it takes, it will be some new age tech. Not our current method of CPU production.

At least, from what I see with our current technology processing.

 

[mdd1963]

So what the heck? Is it going to even be worth upgrading? Should I just wait for 9th gen.? And that's assuming they will go back and make more fast quad-cores again...

.

All are valid, good questions indeed!

 

[Contiusa]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-S-H-CPU-Delid-Tool-for-Kabylake-Skylake-Devils-Canyon-and-Haswell-/182648370920?epid=27004573112&hash=item2a86b0f6e8:g:GwYAAOSwKoRZYBb3

I have no intention of doing it myself.

If anything I would buy one already done. But I also can't justify spending $500 for a CPU that would only perform marginally better than the one I have now.

You most likely won't reach 5Ghz and beyond without delidding your chip. Even 4.8Ghz for that matter in many chips. The temperatures will be too high. From what people account, in heavy overclock you can have a drop in temperatures that ranges from 20-30ºC after delidding. That's how people get to 5Ghz or more.

The i7-8700K will most likely be an i7-7700K with two extra cores (for roughly the same price, this is important). But we have to wait and see, because Intel has been coasting for years without offering much. Perhaps they had some IPC room to improve and they will go all in with Coffee Lake. In other words, you can have a CPU that is faster than the i7-7700K in single thread but with two extra cores. Or the opposite, the 4.7Ghz is just a rumor and the chip will have lower clocks due to being an hexacore. But then they will get in trouble. What good does it make a 'server chip' with lower clocks more expansive than an AMD part? Makes no sense.

The other aspect is that the i7-8700K will not be a Xeon / server part with disable cores. It will be a native thoroughbred LGA 115X hexacore (six cores for real, no disable ones). Which might indicate that it will be an easy CPU to overclok and with similar temperature dissipation of the i7-7770K.

I from my part am expecting an i7-7700K with two extra cores. Or perhaps slightly faster in single thread. You might not need extra cores, but people who game and stream will just adore it. This is what everyone is waiting since forever (Haswell perhaps?). The quad cores already give a stuttering experience while streaming, or even micro stutters without streaming, and not everyone is able to delid a chip past 5Ghz. A hexacore will give you a way better experience in games in general. And since Coffee Lake will be a native 115X hexacore, you have the best of both worlds. A true multicore chip for today's standards and optimized for games and such, not server workload.

Wait until Gamescom. They might do a paper launch or even officially release Coffee Lake (according to rumors). Which means that the i7-7700K as being the ultimate gamer CPU might become obsolete in September.

 

[mdd1963]

"In other words, the i7-7700K as being the ultimate gamer CPU might become obsolete in September."

Not sure if I want this or not.... (In the name of progress, however, I think I do!)

 

[Contiusa]

Not sure if I want this or not.... (In the name of progress, however, I think I do!)

hahaha! I know, but if the i7-8700K arrives just as the X series, faster in multithread but slower in single thread, Intel is domed. It will lose its only ace in the sleeve in the mainstream market (i7-7700K), since the i5 is dead by now, and they will be with a lineup of lackluster CPUs more expensive than the competition. They might skyfall from the mainstream market until they can react with Cannonlake -- perhaps too late.

They are a bit on the ropes. If the i7-8700K does not come as strong as or even stronger than the i7-7700K in single thread, it will be a legitimate knockdown. They might not recover, because AMD will release the second generation of Ryzen (Zen 2 so it seems) in 2018 they say, and Vishera came with a good improvement over Bulldozer. If they keep the trend, and the chips will be ironed out and without bugs, there is no reason at all to buy an Intel part.

Linus scorched the X series (rightfully so) and everyone is expecting Intel to bring something real to the table, not the BS they have been bringing over the last years. For the first time in ages the market is expecting Intel to counterattack. Who could imagine that? Can they bring some heat with Coffee Lake or are they too wobbly and ready to take another blow to the head? We'll see.

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

I agree its a pretty stupid move on Intel's part. They are trying to hold on to the workstation PC market when they still are dominating the high-end gaming market, which looks like they are forsaking, giving AMD a chance to catch up and surpass them. Ryzen is way better alternative to the xeon, but it can barely hold its own in the gaming side. Instead of making something that is going to be undisputedly the king of gaming CPUs (like the 7700k) they are trying to make a Ryzen competitor... just stupid.... anyone who wants a really high end workstation PC will still buy the egregiously OP i9. But go ahead and chase after AMD's market...

 

[Contiusa]

It will be only stupid on their part if the i7-8700K comes with lower clocks. If it comes as people are saying with 4.7Ghz turbo, which might indicate a chip as strong as the i7-7700K in single thread but with 2 extra cores, it will sell like water in the desert. I might buy one.

It is their only chance to put a lid on AMD's hype. And it will be huge.

The move from 4 cores to 6 was supposed to happen years ago. They were lingering with 4 cores because there was no competition. The i5 was already bottlenecking in several games. Now they have to play some catch up with AMD.

 

[EpIckFa1LJoN]

It will be only stupid on their part if the i7-8700K comes with lower clocks. If it comes as people are saying with 4.7Ghz turbo, which might indicate a chip as strong as the i7-7700K in single thread but with 2 extra cores, it will sell like water in the desert. I might buy one.

It is their only chance to put a lid on AMD's hype. And it will be huge.

The move from 4 cores to 6 was supposed to happen years ago. They were lingering with 4 cores because there was no competition. The i5 was already bottlenecking in several games. Now they have to play some catch up with AMD.

4.7 Turbo, but only on a single core, 2 cores is 4.6, 4 cores is 4.4, etc. It will still be faster than AMD's Ryzen, but what's the point. That's all AMD is, is hype. Anyone capable of logical thought knows that the 7700k is both cheaper and better than half of the Ryzen CPUs. Like I said instead of making an even FASTER quad-core, and sealing the deal on the gaming market, they release this crap that is probably still going to be outperformed by a 7700k in gaming. It only barely beats a 6700k it seems. I just really hope some benchmarks come out proving me wrong, or that they still release SOMETHING like what everyone thought the 8700K would be. Or hopefully Cannonlake they go back to making really fast quad-cores.

And again the problem with that is that there are still incredibly popular games that perform WORSE on the new 6core processors, because they have lower clock speeds. Maybe Blizzard just needs to get off their freaking butts and reprogram their games, because they run like crap on most machines.