Updating GPU and CPU...should I need to upgrade my MB as well?

[Jemac89]

Howdy,

Currently I am using a MSI PH61A-P35 (B3) LGA 1155 Intel H61 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS, but I am getting ready to upgrade my GPU to a GTX 1070 (EVGA), and this CPU: Intel Core i5-3350P Ivy Bridge Quad-Core 3.1GHz (3.3GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 69W BX80637i53350P Desktop Processor. Given that my MB uses LGA 1155, I am a bit constrained with the CPU upgrades I can make. The one I linked above (I have been told) is still great, but I have been looking at some much newer i5's (for about the same cost), and wondering updating my Motherboard and getting a newer CPU in the process would be worth the $150-200 cost. I am operating on a somewhat tight budget, and if the performance gains would be below 10%, then I am thinking I will stick with the proposed upgrades above...but that is why I need some expert advice. 😀

Thanks folks - I really appreciate the help.

 

[timeconsumer]

I personally wouldn't bother moving past an Ivy Bridge i5 at this point. It's still a good processor.

For the GTX 1070, are you gaming in 1440p or 144Hz? Because if you're just playing 1080p 60Hz a 1060 is all the GPU you need.

 

[sizzling]

With your current CPU you will bottleneck a 1070, no doubt of that. In the right/wrong circumstances even an oc'd 6600k can limit a 1070. You really need a full platforms upgrade to make this worthwhile IMO.

 

[Jemac89]

I personally wouldn't bother moving past an Ivy Bridge i5 at this point. It's still a good processor.

For the GTX 1070, are you gaming in 1440p or 144Hz? Because if you're just playing 1080p 60Hz a 1060 is all the GPU you need.

Thanks for the reply! I am currently using a 1080p monitor, but will be upgrading sometime mid next year to a 1440p monitor. If I can afford it I will be going for an ultrawide, or dual.

 

[Barty1884]

What CPU do you have currently? If you're upgrading to a 3350P, I assume you have an i3 or lower?

While a 3350P is still a viable CPU....that's if you already have it. I wouldn't recommend investing in it.

Generally there is a 5-10% performance improvement per revision-generation (on similar chips). If you're upgrading from IvyBridge to Skylake, at a very basic level you're looking at something anywhere from 10-20% performance improvement on comparable chips (so i3 to i3, for example).

I assume you're on less than an i5 currently, so the performance gains could be more (jumping from an IvyBridge i3 to a Skylake i5 for example).

Personally, I'd say it's totally worth the investment. A new H110 board can be had for <$50 in some cases, so shouldn't add a huge outlay to get you up to the current gen.................although you should invest in DDR4 at that point too.

A Skylake i5-6500, H110 board and a 2x4 kit of DDR4 would set you back ~$280

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($191.91 @ Jet)
Motherboard: MSI H110M PRO-VD PLUS Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($46.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Kingston ValueRAM 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($43.50 @ Directron)
Total: $282.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-12-14 11:39 EST-0500

Wouldn;t necessarily recommend an H110 board, but on a budget, it's more than capable.

 

[anti-duck]

Shame You haven't got a Z68 or Z77, those 3350P's overclock pretty consistently to 3.7GHz. Completely agree that your CPU at stock will hold you back quite a bit, something around the GTX 970, 980, 1060, R9 290, 290X, 390, 390X, RX 470 or RX 480 would be good with the 3350P though and you'd be able to game at 1440p with compromise.

 

[timeconsumer]

Maybe I misread you, it seemed as though you already had the i5-3350P. If you do, I would keep it. Even if it bottlenecks a GTX 1070 by 15% compared to buying a new motherboard, processor, and memory you'd be paying about 80% more (as opposed to just buying the GPU) for a 15% increase in frames. Not worth it.

However if you are considering shelling out $150 or $200 for the 3350P I think then you are better served by getting a new motherboard moving to Skylake.

 

[Jemac89]

What CPU do you have currently? If you're upgrading to a 3350P, I assume you have an i3 or lower?

While a 3350P is still a viable CPU....that's if you already have it. I wouldn't recommend investing in it.

Generally there is a 5-10% performance improvement per revision-generation (on similar chips). If you're upgrading from IvyBridge to Skylake, at a very basic level you're looking at something anywhere from 10-20% performance improvement on comparable chips (so i3 to i3, for example).

I assume you're on less than an i5 currently, so the performance gains could be more (jumping from an IvyBridge i3 to a Skylake i5 for example).

Personally, I'd say it's totally worth the investment. A new H110 board can be had for <$50 in some cases, so shouldn't add a huge outlay to get you up to the current gen.................although you should invest in DDR4 at that point too.

SUPER helpful - thank you for the informative reply!

I am currently using this: Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.4GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core. And the ram I am using is: PNY Optima 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model MD8192KD3-1333.

Do you think I go ahead and upgrade the MB, get a current gen i5 (I feel like an i7 is overkill for me...), and get a few sticks of DDR4? I am a nerd in training with this stuff, so the more reasoning/information, the better! 😀

 

[Jemac89]

Maybe I misread you, it seemed as though you already had the i5-3350P. If you do, I would keep it. Even if it bottlenecks a GTX 1070 by 15% compared to buying a new motherboard, processor, and memory you'd be paying about 80% more (as opposed to just buying the GPU) for a 15% increase in frames. Not worth it.

However if you are considering shelling out $150 or $200 for the 3350P I think then you are better served by getting a new motherboard moving to Skylake.

So I currently have a: Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.4GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core. And you are right - I am already willing to put ~$200 into a new CPU, so it sounds like getting a current gen would be a smarter course.

 

[Barty1884]

Personally, I would upgrade to Skylake, but there's a totally valid argument for sticking with SandyBridge.

Like TC said above (although was talking about the 3350P), the 2400 will hold back a 1070 some......but not enough to justify a $250+ upgrade in CPU/Mobo/RAM to some people. Personally, I think there's enough of an improvement to justify it, but others won't - and that's valid too. Only you can decide there.

FWIW, there's deftinitely not enough of an improvement to justify a ~$200 investment in a 3350P, that's for sure!

While an i7 is definitely overkill at 1080p or 1440p, it is starting to show some gains at 4K. If you have any desire to move to a 4K display in the lifetime of your next CPU, then it *might* be worth considering. I wouldn't, and i'd stick with no greater than 1440p as the 'sweet spot' (especially with a 1070), but it's a consideration.

 

[Jemac89]

What CPU do you have currently? If you're upgrading to a 3350P, I assume you have an i3 or lower?

While a 3350P is still a viable CPU....that's if you already have it. I wouldn't recommend investing in it.

Generally there is a 5-10% performance improvement per revision-generation (on similar chips). If you're upgrading from IvyBridge to Skylake, at a very basic level you're looking at something anywhere from 10-20% performance improvement on comparable chips (so i3 to i3, for example).

I assume you're on less than an i5 currently, so the performance gains could be more (jumping from an IvyBridge i3 to a Skylake i5 for example).

Personally, I'd say it's totally worth the investment. A new H110 board can be had for <$50 in some cases, so shouldn't add a huge outlay to get you up to the current gen.................although you should invest in DDR4 at that point too.

A Skylake i5-6500, H110 board and a 2x4 kit of DDR4 would set you back ~$280

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($191.91 @ Jet)
Motherboard: MSI H110M PRO-VD PLUS Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($46.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Kingston ValueRAM 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($43.50 @ Directron)
Total: $282.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-12-14 11:39 EST-0500

Wouldn;t necessarily recommend an H110 board, but on a budget, it's more than capable.

I am also curious to see what you think about my case. If I am updating GPU, CPU, MB, and RAM then I feel like I might as well consider a new case, if the case technology would be helpful at all for heat/dust mitigation. I currently have a SIGMA ATLANTIS ATLANTIS-S Silver Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

 

[Barty1884]

I am also curious to see what you think about my case. If I am updating GPU, CPU, MB, and RAM then I feel like I might as well consider a new case, if the case technology would be helpful at all for heat/dust mitigation. I currently have a SIGMA ATLANTIS ATLANTIS-S Silver Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Honestly, a case is 100% the most 'personal preference' aspect of a build (provided it can accommodate the components you plan to use, of course). There's no front panel USB3 etc on the case, so it's up to you how much of an issue that'll be. Beyond that, it's an ATX case and will work. It's got a top-mounted PSU though, which is pretty dated...

 

[Jemac89]

I am also curious to see what you think about my case. If I am updating GPU, CPU, MB, and RAM then I feel like I might as well consider a new case, if the case technology would be helpful at all for heat/dust mitigation. I currently have a SIGMA ATLANTIS ATLANTIS-S Silver Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Honestly, a case is 100% the most 'personal preference' aspect of a build (provided it can accommodate the components you plan to use, of course). There's no front panel USB3 etc on the case, so it's up to you how much of an issue that'll be. Beyond that, it's an ATX case and will work. It's got a top-mounted PSU though, which is pretty dated...

Is mounting the PSU in a different area more advantageous?

 

[Barty1884]

I'm not 100% sure in all honesty - it's the way case manufacturers have gone, so I assume so.

A bottom-mounted PSU will draw cool air in (from outside the case) and exhaust out the back - in theory keeping the PSU cooler and extending it's lifespan.

A top-mounted PSU draws warm-ish air in (from inside the case) and exhausts out the back - so would run a little warmer (in theory). Cases/PSUs ran like that for a long time though, so I'm not convinced there's too much weight to that argument.

 

[Jemac89]

I'm not 100% sure in all honesty - it's the way case manufacturers have gone, so I assume so.

A bottom-mounted PSU will draw cool air in (from outside the case) and exhaust out the back - in theory keeping the PSU cooler and extending it's lifespan.

A top-mounted PSU draws warm-ish air in (from inside the case) and exhausts out the back - so would run a little warmer (in theory). Cases/PSUs ran like that for a long time though, so I'm not convinced there's too much weight to that argument.

Barty - Ok, awesome. Great to know.

One more question for ya: You mentioned that you would not reccomend the H110, expect for budget situations. If I could bump up my spending by $50-100, is there a different MB you would reccomend? And why this over the H1110? While I know a bit about CPUs and GPUs, I know nothing about MBs.

 

[Barty1884]

There are additional features to the H170 or Z170 - more USB/USB3, more DIMMs per channel, more SATA ports, PCIe/M.2 support etc (RAID support and OCing support on the Z170), along with the more 'business focussed' B150.

B150 would provide the features most people use/need/want, sacraficing only OCing support and a couple of other less-improtant things (and PCIe storage/M.2 support!).

While the B150 is suitable for most people, the H110 can be had a lot cheaper - and I was only illustrating a point re: cost.

 

[Jemac89]

There are additional features to the H170 or Z170 - more USB/USB3, more DIMMs per channel, more SATA ports, PCIe/M.2 support etc (RAID support and OCing support on the Z170), along with the more 'business focussed' B150.

B150 would provide the features most people use/need/want, sacraficing only OCing support and a couple of other less-improtant things (and PCIe storage/M.2 support!).

While the B150 is suitable for most people, the H110 can be had a lot cheaper - and I was only illustrating a point re: cost.

Barty, because you are just the best and so freaking knowledgable...one more question. Don't know who else to ask.

I have spent some time researching today, and have a better feel for what my eventual build will look like. I have the GTX 1070 SC (EVGA) as the cornerstone, and I now also know that I want to eventually have a 27" 2k IPS monitor with a refresh rate of 100+. G/Free sync would also be awesome. Gonna have to save some pennies for a while to afford it, but that is the goal.

Given that type monitor and my GPU, what CPU do you think I would need in order to not be bottlenecked? I would prefer an i5 (for money reasons), and I would prefer a processor with sufficient factory settings (overclocking does not interest me).

And given that I am not an overclocker, does this mean that I likely do not want a Z series MOBO (given that they seem to be tailored to overclockers?). I've done a bit of research, and I think once I have my CPU nailed down, I will have an easier time picking a MOBO.

 

[Barty1884]

:lol: thanks, but the collective knowledge of the users on the forum are much greater than any one individual. Glad I've helped so far though.

An i7 is currently showing some gains at 4K, but below that, a solid i5 is where you need to be. The faster clocked i5 that's not set up for overclocking is the i5-6600, which boosts from 3.3GHz to 3.9GHz. The more viable option for most people is the i5-6500, boosting 3.2 to 3.5. The unlocked (for Ocing) 6600K is 3.5GHz to 3.9GHz.

I would actually suggest you consider the i5-6600K and a Z170 board (+a cooler as the K chips don't come with a stock cooler), as this keeps the option open for the future. While OCing might not be your thing from day one, being able to extend the lifespan in future is worth the extra $15 (vs the locked 6600) and $35-$40 (vs the 6500) to me.

Alternatively, I'd bypass the 6600 and pick up a 6500 if you truly never see yourself overclocking.

A Z170 unfortunately will cost a little more, and the addition of a cooler increases your outlay initially, but sets you up for longevity. Unless you're a person who upgrades every year or two, it's best not to under-estimate your CPU.

Other than overclocking, or RAID (which doesn't seem to be a goal here), then a B150 chipset is probably the best "bang for your buck". Failing that, H170 and, on a super-budget, an H110.

 

[Jemac89]

:lol: thanks, but the collective knowledge of the users on the forum are much greater than any one individual. Glad I've helped so far though.

An i7 is currently showing some gains at 4K, but below that, a solid i5 is where you need to be. The faster clocked i5 that's not set up for overclocking is the i5-6600, which boosts from 3.3GHz to 3.9GHz. The more viable option for most people is the i5-6500, boosting 3.2 to 3.5. The unlocked (for Ocing) 6600K is 3.5GHz to 3.9GHz.

I would actually suggest you consider the i5-6600K and a Z170 board (+a cooler as the K chips don't come with a stock cooler), as this keeps the option open for the future. While OCing might not be your thing from day one, being able to extend the lifespan in future is worth the extra $15 (vs the locked 6600) and $35-$40 (vs the 6500) to me.

Alternatively, I'd bypass the 6600 and pick up a 6500 if you truly never see yourself overclocking.

A Z170 unfortunately will cost a little more, and the addition of a cooler increases your outlay initially, but sets you up for longevity. Unless you're a person who upgrades every year or two, it's best not to under-estimate your CPU.

Other than overclocking, or RAID (which doesn't seem to be a goal here), then a B150 chipset is probably the best "bang for your buck". Failing that, H170 and, on a super-budget, an H110.

That is a great point re: longevity - given the amount of money I have already spend on my GPU alone I want this build to last at least 5 years. With that in mind, is my Hard Drive still OK? I am using the Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500413AS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - OEM

 

[Barty1884]

It's fine as a bulk storage drive, yes*. I wouldn't be using it for your OS on such a new setup, an SSD is the only way to go really.

*Assuming it's not very old, and you've run health diagnostics on it.

 

[Jemac89]

It's fine as a bulk storage drive, yes*. I wouldn't be using it for your OS on such a new setup, an SSD is the only way to go really.

*Assuming it's not very old, and you've run health diagnostics on it.

I am eyeing the Z170-HD3 MOBO for its price, but it only had HDMI, VGA and DVI-D. I am a bit worried about the lack of display port, given that I am wanting 1440p at 100+ hz. Do I NEED DisplayPort, or can I get away with HDMI or DVI-D for that resolution/refresh rate?

 

[timeconsumer]

Your video output comes from your GPU, not your motherboard.

 

[Jemac89]

Your video output comes from your GPU, not your motherboard.

Aaaaaand I feel really stupid. Thanks!

 

[timeconsumer]

It happens to the best of us

 

[PCGUY2015]

My first build was a GA-X58A-UD3R (rev. 2.0) with a i7-950 CPU and a ASUS Radeon HD 4850 back in 2009.. the only thing that I've upgraded is the GPU to a EVGA GTX 970 FTW back in 2014 and I get around 80fps on 1080p ultra settings in bf4 and 150fps on sli.. I also upgraded to a new SSD that really boosts loading times.. so my advice to you is dont upgrade yet.. I also have another build (skylake) 6700k Z170 chipset.. and let me tell u that is not that much of a big difference