[SOLVED] Upgrade Advice: i7 6700K + Z170 Mobo

Kevkas

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Hi, I'm looking for some advice, I'm thinking about possibly upgrading CPU + Motherboard in the near future (4 to 6 months, although I could wait more if necessary).

First and foremost, let's get the GPU out of the way: I had a 980 Ti, it died a couple of months ago, so I will be buying an Ampere card, I'm pretty sure I'll be buying a 3080, so my idea is to get it to have a GPU again (I'm currently using my the integrated gpu in the 6700K... rip) but I also wanted to upgrade my CPU + Mobo to get a CPU that's a little bit newer while also getting support for PCIe 4.0.

Approximate Purchase Date: for the GPU probably October, November at most (or when they become available where I live). For the CPU + Mobo... 3 to 6 months maybe? I can wait more if necessary.

System Usage: Gaming, and 3D modeling/rendering (Maya mostly).

Are you buying a monitor: No. I have an Acer Predator, 1440p 144Hz with G-sync, I'm pretty happy with it.

System Specs:
CPU: Intel Core i7-6700k 4.4 Ghz
CPU cooler: Cooler Master Hyper EVO 212
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7
RAM: 32GB 3200Mhz
GPU: No GPU at the moment (as I said, it died, I used to have a 980Ti), I'm planning on buying a RTX 3080
PSU: EVGA SuperNova 850W G2 80+ Gold
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P400A
Storage: SSD 250GB for the OS, 2 TB HDD, and an extra 1 TB SSD

Parts to Upgrade: CPU and Motherboard. Probably a CPU cooler as well (unless my Hyper EVO 212 can be salvaged from my current rig?)

Do you need to buy OS: Nope

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: I live in Argentina so forget about specific websites in the US or stuff like that. I'll have to get the parts from local stores here.

Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Parts Preferences: I'm mostly familiar with Intel for CPUs, and Gigabyte for motherboards (don't bother suggesting any ASUS motherboards, I've had plenty of bad experiences with ASUS, won't buy from them again).

Overclocking: Probably, but only slightly. I don't like watercooling so I want to keep using air-cooling. My previous CPU was a 2500K, and now 6700K, so I like to go for those kind of processors.

SLI or Crossfire: No

Your Monitor Resolution: 2560x1440p, 144hz, G-Sync

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Since I HAVE to buy a GPU anyway, I figured it would be a good time to start thining about upgrading my CPU and motherboard. I don't HAVE to upgrade those two right now, so I can wait a bit, ideally I would like to buy a CPU which lasts me for 4 to 5 more years, I know DDR5 will probably come out by then but I figured if I can buy a decent CPU now or in a few months, I might be able to hold on to my 32GB of DDR4 RAM and it'll save me some bucks there. Also, since my PSU is decent, and I don't have to buy a case, storage, monitor, or worry about the GPU (since I will be buying one anyway), it makes sense to think about upgrading CPU and motherboard to do some futureproofing mostly. Ideally I would like to move on from 4 cores 8 threads to something with more cores as 4c/8t will start becoming less standard in the following years.

By the way, since I mentioned I am mostly familiar with Intel, I'm not too knowledgeable about AMD at the moment, I know they have been releasing great CPUs lately but I don't know much about AMD motherboards. I have heard that Ryzen 4000 is supposed to be released soon, so I don't know if that would be the best choice or if it would be better to wait until early 2021 for something better from Intel or even AMD as well. Ideally I would like to get more cores, but not lose the base frequency of 4.0 (even though I'm running my CPU at 4.4 at the moment), but the idea is to not have to go below my current frequency specs-wise if possible.

This is mostly a 'what should I aim for if I will be pairing it with a 3080 considering I currently have an i7 6700K'? So it's not an imminent purchase.

By the way, I didn't mention budget but I assume I am aiming for top tier CPU performance, not like f*ck you money but still, a decent CPU and Mobo to last me several years.
 
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Prad_Bitt

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Yeah, I can understand that, still it depends on the resolution you are running, if you are on 1080p... honestly, a 2070 is really decent, and most probably the new features announced with the new cards will be avaliable for the 20 series. If you are on 1440p or even 4k... yeah, in that case it's a tougher pill to swallow.



Ah, I didn't know the cooler was decent for Ryzen 7 and 9, honestly based on what I've been talking with you about (thanks by the way, I'm finding your info really helpful) I think my best options at the moment are either wait a bit until Ryzen 4000 is released and check those reviews, or at the most wait until Q1 2021 to see what Intel has to offer... but based on Intel's history in the past 2 years... I have a feeling it'll be yet another refresh perhaps, so if that's the case my best option will probably be Ryzen 4000, knowing the coolers have been decent on the higher-end ryzen products is good, I'll have to check reviews of course. Is the Hyper EVO 212 compatible with AM4 motherboards and ryzen cpus?



Good to know. The performance of the same G and non-G ryzen cpu model is the same though, right? (like between the 4700 and the 4700G for example)
Yeah , I'm still on 1080p144 that's why I'm not THAT bothered, might shift to 240 but eh that's just CSGO, I prefer FPS over resolution.

I mean if your CPU doesn't die, I'd suggest wait for both (or just Ryzen, your wish)

The 212 Evo is compatible, but I don't know about the mounting bracket stuff. I have a Hyper 212 RGB, it had a common mounting bracket with holes in different places to provide compatibility for both Intel and AMD, and different screw parts and stuff depending on AM4/LGA. I don't know whether your unit had the compatible bracket shipped with it.

For the G and non G, the thing is there hasn't been a specific G and non G yet, it's happening first in 4000. For example, the R3 3200G is a 4c/4t config, a 3200
which otherwise doesn't exist in Ryzen 3000. The R5 3400G is a 4c/8t which is similar to a R3 3300X/3100 but not the R5 3000 CPUs, and a R5 3400 doesn't exist.
The thing is, the APU in 3000 is actually made on 12nm (which the 2000 CPUs were made on) and the entire 3000 CPU lineup is 7nm. Similarly 2000 APUs are 14nm (1000 CPUs), but the 2000 CPUs are 12nm.
Now the 4000G lineup is as follows, all of these are 7nm APUs:

R3 4300G 4c/8t 3.8 base 4.0 boost (similar to a 3300X/3100)
R5 4600G 6c/12t 3.7 base 4.2 boost (similar to a 3600)
R7 4700G 8c/16t 3.6 base 4.4 boost (similar to 3700X)

Basically the APUs are running a generation behind even while having the same nomenclature system

And don't mind the PRO CPUs they're just OEM versions. The only CPUs you can build with are R3 3100/3300X, R5 3500/3600/3600x/3600XT, R7 3700X/3800X/3800XT, R9 3900X/3900XT/3950X and the R3 3200G and R5 3400G APUs. Rest are Threadripper (AMD's Xeon)
 

Prad_Bitt

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Jul 4, 2020
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Hi, I'm looking for some advice, I'm thinking about possibly upgrading CPU + Motherboard in the near future (4 to 6 months, although I could wait more if necessary).

First and foremost, let's get the GPU out of the way: I had a 980 Ti, it died a couple of months ago, so I will be buying an Ampere card, I'm pretty sure I'll be buying a 3080, so my idea is to get it to have a GPU again (I'm currently using my the integrated gpu in the 6700K... rip) but I also wanted to upgrade my CPU + Mobo to get a CPU that's a little bit newer while also getting support for PCIe 4.0.

Approximate Purchase Date: for the GPU probably October, November at most (or when they become available where I live). For the CPU + Mobo... 3 to 6 months maybe? I can wait more if necessary.

System Usage: Gaming, and 3D modeling/rendering (Maya mostly).

Are you buying a monitor: No. I have an Acer Predator, 1440p 144Hz with G-sync, I'm pretty happy with it.

System Specs:
CPU: Intel Core i7-6700k 4.4 Ghz
CPU cooler: Cooler Master Hyper EVO 212
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7
RAM: 32GB 3200Mhz
GPU: No GPU at the moment (as I said, it died, I used to have a 980Ti), I'm planning on buying a RTX 3080
PSU: EVGA SuperNova 850W G2 80+ Gold
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P400A
Storage: SSD 250GB for the OS, 2 TB HDD, and an extra 1 TB SSD

Parts to Upgrade: CPU and Motherboard. Probably a CPU cooler as well (unless my Hyper EVO 212 can be salvaged from my current rig?)

Do you need to buy OS: Nope

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: I live in Argentina so forget about specific websites in the US or stuff like that. I'll have to get the parts from local stores here.

Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Parts Preferences: I'm mostly familiar with Intel for CPUs, and Gigabyte for motherboards (don't bother suggesting any ASUS motherboards, I've had plenty of bad experiences with ASUS, won't buy from them again).

Overclocking: Probably, but only slightly. I don't like watercooling so I want to keep using air-cooling. My previous CPU was a 2500K, and now 6700K, so I like to go for those kind of processors.

SLI or Crossfire: No

Your Monitor Resolution: 2560x1440p, 144hz, G-Sync

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Since I HAVE to buy a GPU anyway, I figured it would be a good time to start thining about upgrading my CPU and motherboard. I don't HAVE to upgrade those two right now, so I can wait a bit, ideally I would like to buy a CPU which lasts me for 4 to 5 more years, I know DDR5 will probably come out by then but I figured if I can buy a decent CPU now or in a few months, I might be able to hold on to my 32GB of DDR4 RAM and it'll save me some bucks there. Also, since my PSU is decent, and I don't have to buy a case, storage, monitor, or worry about the GPU (since I will be buying one anyway), it makes sense to think about upgrading CPU and motherboard to do some futureproofing mostly. Ideally I would like to move on from 4 cores 8 threads to something with more cores as 4c/8t will start becoming less standard in the following years.

By the way, since I mentioned I am mostly familiar with Intel, I'm not too knowledgeable about AMD at the moment, I know they have been releasing great CPUs lately but I don't know much about AMD motherboards. I have heard that Ryzen 4000 is supposed to be released soon, so I don't know if that would be the best choice or if it would be better to wait until early 2021 for something better from Intel or even AMD as well. Ideally I would like to get more cores, but not lose the base frequency of 4.0 (even though I'm running my CPU at 4.4 at the moment), but the idea is to not have to go below my current frequency specs-wise if possible.

This is mostly a 'what should I aim for if I will be pairing it with a 3080 considering I currently have an i7 6700K'? So it's not an imminent purchase.

By the way, I didn't mention budget but I assume I am aiming for top tier CPU performance, not like f*ck you money but still, a decent CPU and Mobo to last me several years.
Probably a ryzen 7 or ryzen 9 4000, or a 10700K or 10900K. Whatever fits your budget should be fine, at the moment the 10900k reigns, but ryzen 4000 might change that. So wait for 4000 to come out and check out the benchmarks. Your cooler can definitely be salvaged but I don't know to what extent or what Temps you might get. Even if they're not so great you don't need to buy an expensive cooler, A hyper 212 rgb should be enough, or if possible. Something big like a Dark Rock or D15
 

Kevkas

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I appreciate the feedback mate.

I thought about the 10900K, but I've heard it runs really REALLY hot (considering I want to keep air-cooling, it can be an issue if a CPU is known to be particularly hot), plus the fact that it's yet another 14nm++++ architecture makes me not consider it really (my current CPU is 14nm and it's like 5 years old), I've always liked Intel but they really need to release a new architecture, that's why I haven't upgraded yet in a sense, they keep releasing 14nm+ stuff, while AMD has already moved on to 7nm. Having said that, while AMD seems to have been releasing really good CPUs, in a way all their efforts have made them just catch up to Intel. That's also why I'm considering this for a 'near future' upgrade and not an imminent one, perhaps newer CPUs will bring changes that are 'new' for a change, instead of just increasing the core count and call it a day.

I don't know much what ryzen 4000 series will bring to the table, I've googled a bit but having never bought an AMD processor I'm a bit lost on what their technology is all about, but they do seem to be on top with their products at the moment.

Perhaps I should have waited until those CPUs are released and reviewed to post my question, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to start asking and getting opinions now.
 
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Prad_Bitt

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I appreciate the feedback mate.

I thought about the 10900K, but I've heard it runs really REALLY hot (considering I want to keep air-cooling, it can be an issue if a CPU is known to be particularly hot), plus the fact that it's yet another 14nm++++ architecture makes me not consider it really (my current CPU is 14nm and it's like 5 years old), I've always liked Intel but they really need to release a new architecture, that's why I haven't upgraded yet in a sense, they keep releasing 14nm+ stuff, while AMD has already moved on to 7nm. Having said that, while AMD seems to have been releasing really good CPUs, in a way all their efforts have made them just catch up to Intel. That's also why I'm considering this for a 'near future' upgrade and not an imminent one, perhaps newer CPUs will bring changes that are 'new' for a change, instead of just increasing the core count and call it a day.

I don't know much what ryzen 4000 series will bring to the table, I've googled a bit but having never bought an AMD processor I'm a bit lost on what their technology is all about, but they do seem to be on top with their products at the moment.

Perhaps I should have waited until those CPUs are released and reviewed to post my question, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to start asking and getting opinions now.
Ryzen generally doesn't run THAT toasty, from the benchmarks I've seen and my own R5 3600 (7700K equivalent). There's not so big of a technology "difference" than their is in performance, Ryzen is much better value, hands down. And 3000 destroyed all of Intel's 9th gen and Intel still hasn't taken them seriously unlike Nvidia. But here's a few key points

7nm meaning more efficient, less Temps and power consumption
Benchmarks show they're better anyway, but still not able to hit 5ghz which gives Intel security in gaming performance.
So far AMD has had backward compatibility on their mid range and high end mobos. With the mid range B350 (released with first gen ryzen) still supporting third gen ryzen just fine. (however this may change with ryzen 5000 or 6000 when AMD changes the socket entirely to AM5 and DDR5 shows up)
Ryzen also takes huge advantage from RAM speeds, it'll make a bigger difference with faster ram on ryzen than in Intel. I don't know about software specific compatibility, but you can't really go wrong with ryzen, I believe.

Oh also mid range B550 boards have PCIe gen 4
 

Kevkas

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From what I've been able to research, correct me on these if I'm wrong:

  • ryzen 4000 will be released with AM4 socket as well, and support DDR4 still, right?
  • B550 are mid range AMD motherboards, and X570 are high range AMD motherboards? so X570 is like the equivalente of what the Z470 are now for Intel? something like that?
  • based on what you said about ryzen 5000, I understand that ryzen 4000 is the last CPU that will support AM4 socket, right? or is there something else coming out between ryzen 4000 and ryzen 5000?
I know DDR5 will probably come in a year or two, but honestly... I would prefer to just change the CPU and motherboard and still be able to use my 32GB of RAM than having to buy RAM as well, so getting a new CPU that still supports DDR4 seems like the way to go if I upgrade in 3 maybe 6 months at most.

Another question, maybe this is a silly one but... nvidia gpus and AMD cpus + motherboards work well together right? As I've said, I've never bought an AMD cpu so perhaps this is common knowledge for people using AMD but not to me, I've always used Intel so perhaps there are things that I 'should' know that I don't regarding compatibility.

I will keep an eye out for when ryzen 4000 series come out though to check reviews, as far as I'm aware the only thing Intel is going to release in the near future are Tiger Lake cpus and those are for laptops, I don't know what's the next 'desktop' architecture they are going to release because I've googled and there are so many codenames for the new cpus that I get lost (comet lake, rocket lake, tiger lake, ice lake, alder lake... it's a mess really).
 

Prad_Bitt

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From what I've been able to research, correct me on these if I'm wrong:

  • ryzen 4000 will be released with AM4 socket as well, and support DDR4 still, right?
  • B550 are mid range AMD motherboards, and X570 are high range AMD motherboards? so X570 is like the equivalente of what the Z470 are now for Intel? something like that?
  • based on what you said about ryzen 5000, I understand that ryzen 4000 is the last CPU that will support AM4 socket, right? or is there something else coming out between ryzen 4000 and ryzen 5000?
I know DDR5 will probably come in a year or two, but honestly... I would prefer to just change the CPU and motherboard and still be able to use my 32GB of RAM than having to buy RAM as well, so getting a new CPU that still supports DDR4 seems like the way to go if I upgrade in 3 maybe 6 months at most.

Another question, maybe this is a silly one but... nvidia gpus and AMD cpus + motherboards work well together right? As I've said, I've never bought an AMD cpu so perhaps this is common knowledge for people using AMD but not to me, I've always used Intel so perhaps there are things that I 'should' know that I don't regarding compatibility.

I will keep an eye out for when ryzen 4000 series come out though to check reviews, as far as I'm aware the only thing Intel is going to release in the near future are Tiger Lake cpus and those are for laptops, I don't know what's the next 'desktop' architecture they are going to release because I've googled and there are so many codenames for the new cpus that I get lost (comet lake, rocket lake, tiger lake, ice lake, alder lake... it's a mess really).
Ryzen 4000 will be AM4 and will support DDR4 definitely

If AMD follows what it did with 3000 there should be a 4000XT (basically a higher base and boost clocked 4000)
Now nothing is confirmed whether 5000 is AM4 or not, different sources say different stuff, but AM5 would mean DDR5

And yes B550 is midrange but it's not much worse off than X570 unlike in the case of Intel. AMD's B is much better than Intel's B in the sense that it is OC unlocked, supports much much faster RAM, PCIe 4.0 etc, so if you want to save a lil cash, b550 does no harm, but obviously X570 is better with more pcie4 lanes and stuff, but for the average user, doesn't matter.

And there's no compatibility issues with Nvidia and AMD, I myself am using a r5 3600+2070s.

I don't keep up with Intel's names either because I get confused all the time too, I like numbers better. all I know is Intel won't really be a great choice until they stop adding + to the 14nm and change that 14 itself. That may happen in 2021 since they've shifted to 10nm on laptops
 

Kevkas

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Ryzen 4000 will be AM4 and will support DDR4 definitely

If AMD follows what it did with 3000 there should be a 4000XT (basically a higher base and boost clocked 4000)
Now nothing is confirmed whether 5000 is AM4 or not, different sources say different stuff, but AM5 would mean DDR5
Ah, then I guess I'll either have to go for Ryzen 4000 or whatever Intel responds with (if anything) that still supports DDR4. The main reason I focus on this is because it will save me a few bucks not having to buy RAM, and the amount I have today (for the type of user I am) is already overkill, and has more or less decent speed (3200 Mhz, not the fastest but decent enough) so I see no point in having to buy DDR5 when it comes out, especially since 1st versions of new tech tend to have a questionable performance (and price) most of the times. That's actually why I didn't buy the RTX 20 series when it came out, I've had a feeling for the past 2 years that something like this might happen, early adopters of new technologies usually end up overpaying, so I prefer to stick with DDR4 for the upcoming years until DDR5 is more mainstream and mature as a technology.

Good info on the possibility of a 4000XT, didn't know 'XT' was a thing in AMD products, I'll check what they did with Ryzen 3000 to get an idea of the base lineup and the XT of that lineup if they've done it for the 3000 series.

And yes B550 is midrange but it's not much worse off than X570 unlike in the case of Intel. AMD's B is much better than Intel's B in the sense that it is OC unlocked, supports much much faster RAM, PCIe 4.0 etc, so if you want to save a lil cash, b550 does no harm, but obviously X570 is better with more pcie4 lanes and stuff, but for the average user, doesn't matter.
I see, I'll have to do some research to see actual differences or features between them, if you think of any particular feature that is worth mentioning let me know, I usually read and watch a lot of reviews so I'll still gather info on my end, but it's always good to ask someone who is more familiar with the 'AMD family' let's say.

And there's no compatibility issues with Nvidia and AMD, I myself am using a r5 3600+2070s.
Nice, good to know. Another question if I may: do all of Ryzen products come with an integrated gpu? I ask because as I mentioned in my first post, my 980Ti died a couple of months ago, so I've been waiting to get a new (dedicated) gpu, and even though the igpu in the 6700K is VERY basic, at least I can continue using my pc to work and do overall stuff, so I do see the benefit of having an integrated gpu in my cpu even if I'll buy a dedicated gpu, it's more of a backup in case my gpu dies. I know amd APUs exist, I just don't know if those are the ones with integrated gpu ONLY, or if the ryzen non-APU cpus also have an integrated gpu. Do you know?

I don't keep up with Intel's names either because I get confused all the time too, I like numbers better. all I know is Intel won't really be a great choice until they stop adding + to the 14nm and change that 14 itself. That may happen in 2021 since they've shifted to 10nm on laptops
Yeah that's what I am thinking, perhaps Intel will release a 10nm desktop cpu in early 2021, but I don't know if that's planned or not, depending on what they release it might be worth it if it still supports DDR4.
 

Prad_Bitt

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Ah, then I guess I'll either have to go for Ryzen 4000 or whatever Intel responds with (if anything) that still supports DDR4. The main reason I focus on this is because it will save me a few bucks not having to buy RAM, and the amount I have today (for the type of user I am) is already overkill, and has more or less decent speed (3200 Mhz, not the fastest but decent enough) so I see no point in having to buy DDR5 when it comes out, especially since 1st versions of new tech tend to have a questionable performance (and price) most of the times. That's actually why I didn't buy the RTX 20 series when it came out, I've had a feeling for the past 2 years that something like this might happen, early adopters of new technologies usually end up overpaying, so I prefer to stick with DDR4 for the upcoming years until DDR5 is more mainstream and mature as a technology.

Good info on the possibility of a 4000XT, didn't know 'XT' was a thing in AMD products, I'll check what they did with Ryzen 3000 to get an idea of the base lineup and the XT of that lineup if they've done it for the 3000 series.



I see, I'll have to do some research to see actual differences or features between them, if you think of any particular feature that is worth mentioning let me know, I usually read and watch a lot of reviews so I'll still gather info on my end, but it's always good to ask someone who is more familiar with the 'AMD family' let's say.


Nice, good to know. Another question if I may: do all of Ryzen products come with an integrated gpu? I ask because as I mentioned in my first post, my 980Ti died a couple of months ago, so I've been waiting to get a new (dedicated) gpu, and even though the igpu in the 6700K is VERY basic, at least I can continue using my pc to work and do overall stuff, so I do see the benefit of having an integrated gpu in my cpu even if I'll buy a dedicated gpu, it's more of a backup in case my gpu dies. I know amd APUs exist, I just don't know if those are the ones with integrated gpu ONLY, or if the ryzen non-APU cpus also have an integrated gpu. Do you know?


Yeah that's what I am thinking, perhaps Intel will release a 10nm desktop cpu in early 2021, but I don't know if that's planned or not, depending on what they release it might be worth it if it still supports DDR4.
Yeah, I'm suffering with the 2070s because I just bought this like 3 months ago lol depreciation will bite me hard.

Well PCIe Gen 4 is worth mentioning, the backwards compatible motherboards are worth mentioning, but with the onset of AM5 back compat doesn't stand its ground. It also comes with a cooler, a pretty decent RGB one with Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 9, 5 and below have trash coolers, can't say for sure but they (7 and 9 coolers) might be better (or might not, very wild guess) than a 212 evo. And AMD makes use of fast RAM too, a lot of people pair 3200Mhz or 3600Mhz or even crazy high 4000 and above with Ryzen.

Ryzen chips with iGPU are APUs, which have a G at the end (R3 2200G, 3200G, R5 2400G, 3400G) they're not available on the higher end yet but I did see a Ryzen 7 4700G in a lot of articles as an upcoming desktop APU. The rest without any letter or X or XT don't have iGPUs.

As you aren't familiar with AMD much, I have no idea if Intel plans to shift to DDR5 and 10nm next year lol, you'll have to check that
 

Kevkas

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Yeah, I'm suffering with the 2070s because I just bought this like 3 months ago lol depreciation will bite me hard.
Yeah, I can understand that, still it depends on the resolution you are running, if you are on 1080p... honestly, a 2070 is really decent, and most probably the new features announced with the new cards will be avaliable for the 20 series. If you are on 1440p or even 4k... yeah, in that case it's a tougher pill to swallow.

Well PCIe Gen 4 is worth mentioning, the backwards compatible motherboards are worth mentioning, but with the onset of AM5 back compat doesn't stand its ground. It also comes with a cooler, a pretty decent RGB one with Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 9, 5 and below have trash coolers, can't say for sure but they (7 and 9 coolers) might be better (or might not, very wild guess) than a 212 evo. And AMD makes use of fast RAM too, a lot of people pair 3200Mhz or 3600Mhz or even crazy high 4000 and above with Ryzen.
Ah, I didn't know the cooler was decent for Ryzen 7 and 9, honestly based on what I've been talking with you about (thanks by the way, I'm finding your info really helpful) I think my best options at the moment are either wait a bit until Ryzen 4000 is released and check those reviews, or at the most wait until Q1 2021 to see what Intel has to offer... but based on Intel's history in the past 2 years... I have a feeling it'll be yet another refresh perhaps, so if that's the case my best option will probably be Ryzen 4000, knowing the coolers have been decent on the higher-end ryzen products is good, I'll have to check reviews of course. Is the Hyper EVO 212 compatible with AM4 motherboards and ryzen cpus?

Ryzen chips with iGPU are APUs, which have a G at the end (R3 2200G, 3200G, R5 2400G, 3400G) they're not available on the higher end yet but I did see a Ryzen 7 4700G in a lot of articles as an upcoming desktop APU. The rest without any letter or X or XT don't have iGPUs.
Good to know. The performance of the same G and non-G ryzen cpu model is the same though, right? (like between the 4700 and the 4700G for example)


Another question I just thought about, better to ask these things in advance than to find out the hard way: say for example one buys a B550 or X570 when Ryzen 4000 comes out, will they be recognized by the motherboard or do they need a BIOS update using a previous gen Ryzen cpu first?
 
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Prad_Bitt

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Yeah, I can understand that, still it depends on the resolution you are running, if you are on 1080p... honestly, a 2070 is really decent, and most probably the new features announced with the new cards will be avaliable for the 20 series. If you are on 1440p or even 4k... yeah, in that case it's a tougher pill to swallow.



Ah, I didn't know the cooler was decent for Ryzen 7 and 9, honestly based on what I've been talking with you about (thanks by the way, I'm finding your info really helpful) I think my best options at the moment are either wait a bit until Ryzen 4000 is released and check those reviews, or at the most wait until Q1 2021 to see what Intel has to offer... but based on Intel's history in the past 2 years... I have a feeling it'll be yet another refresh perhaps, so if that's the case my best option will probably be Ryzen 4000, knowing the coolers have been decent on the higher-end ryzen products is good, I'll have to check reviews of course. Is the Hyper EVO 212 compatible with AM4 motherboards and ryzen cpus?



Good to know. The performance of the same G and non-G ryzen cpu model is the same though, right? (like between the 4700 and the 4700G for example)
Yeah , I'm still on 1080p144 that's why I'm not THAT bothered, might shift to 240 but eh that's just CSGO, I prefer FPS over resolution.

I mean if your CPU doesn't die, I'd suggest wait for both (or just Ryzen, your wish)

The 212 Evo is compatible, but I don't know about the mounting bracket stuff. I have a Hyper 212 RGB, it had a common mounting bracket with holes in different places to provide compatibility for both Intel and AMD, and different screw parts and stuff depending on AM4/LGA. I don't know whether your unit had the compatible bracket shipped with it.

For the G and non G, the thing is there hasn't been a specific G and non G yet, it's happening first in 4000. For example, the R3 3200G is a 4c/4t config, a 3200
which otherwise doesn't exist in Ryzen 3000. The R5 3400G is a 4c/8t which is similar to a R3 3300X/3100 but not the R5 3000 CPUs, and a R5 3400 doesn't exist.
The thing is, the APU in 3000 is actually made on 12nm (which the 2000 CPUs were made on) and the entire 3000 CPU lineup is 7nm. Similarly 2000 APUs are 14nm (1000 CPUs), but the 2000 CPUs are 12nm.
Now the 4000G lineup is as follows, all of these are 7nm APUs:

R3 4300G 4c/8t 3.8 base 4.0 boost (similar to a 3300X/3100)
R5 4600G 6c/12t 3.7 base 4.2 boost (similar to a 3600)
R7 4700G 8c/16t 3.6 base 4.4 boost (similar to 3700X)

Basically the APUs are running a generation behind even while having the same nomenclature system

And don't mind the PRO CPUs they're just OEM versions. The only CPUs you can build with are R3 3100/3300X, R5 3500/3600/3600x/3600XT, R7 3700X/3800X/3800XT, R9 3900X/3900XT/3950X and the R3 3200G and R5 3400G APUs. Rest are Threadripper (AMD's Xeon)
 

Prad_Bitt

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Yeah, I can understand that, still it depends on the resolution you are running, if you are on 1080p... honestly, a 2070 is really decent, and most probably the new features announced with the new cards will be avaliable for the 20 series. If you are on 1440p or even 4k... yeah, in that case it's a tougher pill to swallow.



Ah, I didn't know the cooler was decent for Ryzen 7 and 9, honestly based on what I've been talking with you about (thanks by the way, I'm finding your info really helpful) I think my best options at the moment are either wait a bit until Ryzen 4000 is released and check those reviews, or at the most wait until Q1 2021 to see what Intel has to offer... but based on Intel's history in the past 2 years... I have a feeling it'll be yet another refresh perhaps, so if that's the case my best option will probably be Ryzen 4000, knowing the coolers have been decent on the higher-end ryzen products is good, I'll have to check reviews of course. Is the Hyper EVO 212 compatible with AM4 motherboards and ryzen cpus?



Good to know. The performance of the same G and non-G ryzen cpu model is the same though, right? (like between the 4700 and the 4700G for example)


Another question I just thought about, better to ask these things in advance than to find out the hard way: say for example one buys a B550 or X570 when Ryzen 4000 comes out, will they be recognized by the motherboard or do they need a BIOS update using a previous gen Ryzen cpu first?
Well most of the B550 boards (unlike a lot of B450s) come with BIOS flashback, which is basically a feature that lets you boot without a CPU, and update your Bios using a flash drive, it has different names for different brands, for gigabyte its "Q Flash" I believe. B450 needed BIOS update for Ryzen 3000, but some mobos shipped ryzen 3000 ready, my friend has an MSI B450 Tomahawk Max which shipped ryzen 3000ready, it was even written on the box for marketing. So most likely some boards released after 4000 comes out will be ryzen 4000 ready, it'll definitely market it if it's ready, or market the flashback feature somewhere, you can use pcpartpicker for finding that, that's how I got to know the board I was going for with my 3600 (B450 Aorus Pro wifi) didn't ship 3000 ready and didn't have a flashback feature (meaning I needed a 1000/2000 CPU to boot and update bios), then I went for B550 aorus pro ac instead lol
Also, off topic, but Gamers Nexus is an excellent YouTube channel for tech info, apart from Linus Tech Tips
 

mdd1963

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I don't know much what ryzen 4000 series will bring to the table, I've googled a bit but having never bought an AMD processor I'm a bit lost on what their technology is all about, but they do seem to be on top with their products at the moment.
It is rumored to bring ~15% IPC gains, which is quite a big gain, IMO...

That should close the gap that exists between AMD's gaming frame rates and Intel, and, who would not love to see the 10700K/10900K's gaming performance challenged/equaled/exceeded, and at ~$100 less?
 

Kevkas

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I mean if your CPU doesn't die, I'd suggest wait for both (or just Ryzen, your wish)
Yeah I think that's actually the best option for me now, sometimes just waiting is the right answer. Thanks for all your explanation and info mate, it's was helpful. :)

The 212 Evo is compatible, but I don't know about the mounting bracket stuff. I have a Hyper 212 RGB, it had a common mounting bracket with holes in different places to provide compatibility for both Intel and AMD, and different screw parts and stuff depending on AM4/LGA. I don't know whether your unit had the compatible bracket shipped with it.
I think I do have mounting brackets for AMD in the box, I'll have to check, don't know if it's for AM4 or a previous socket since the 212 Evo is a bit old by now (unless AM4 mounting mechanism is the same as previous AMD sockets?)

For the G and non G, the thing is there hasn't been a specific G and non G yet, it's happening first in 4000. For example, the R3 3200G is a 4c/4t config, a 3200
which otherwise doesn't exist in Ryzen 3000. The R5 3400G is a 4c/8t which is similar to a R3 3300X/3100 but not the R5 3000 CPUs, and a R5 3400 doesn't exist.
The thing is, the APU in 3000 is actually made on 12nm (which the 2000 CPUs were made on) and the entire 3000 CPU lineup is 7nm. Similarly 2000 APUs are 14nm (1000 CPUs), but the 2000 CPUs are 12nm.
Now the 4000G lineup is as follows, all of these are 7nm APUs:

R3 4300G 4c/8t 3.8 base 4.0 boost (similar to a 3300X/3100)
R5 4600G 6c/12t 3.7 base 4.2 boost (similar to a 3600)
R7 4700G 8c/16t 3.6 base 4.4 boost (similar to 3700X)

Basically the APUs are running a generation behind even while having the same nomenclature system
Ahhh, ok, what a mess, so basically the 4000 series with be both CPU 7nm AND 7nm APU, right? Will the 4000 series APU be based on Vega or Navi?

And don't mind the PRO CPUs they're just OEM versions. The only CPUs you can build with are R3 3100/3300X, R5 3500/3600/3600x/3600XT, R7 3700X/3800X/3800XT, R9 3900X/3900XT/3950X and the R3 3200G and R5 3400G APUs. Rest are Threadripper (AMD's Xeon)
Ah ok, I did see there were 'PRO' versions of the 3000 and PRO versions of the 4000 announced as well, was wondering what was up with those and if they are worth it or not. I did watch a video from GamersNexus saying the pro versions are pretty much the same only that they include some security features and (very slightly) higher clocks, like... 100Mhz more, nothing really groundbreaking.
 

Kevkas

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Well most of the B550 boards (unlike a lot of B450s) come with BIOS flashback, which is basically a feature that lets you boot without a CPU, and update your Bios using a flash drive, it has different names for different brands, for gigabyte its "Q Flash" I believe. B450 needed BIOS update for Ryzen 3000, but some mobos shipped ryzen 3000 ready, my friend has an MSI B450 Tomahawk Max which shipped ryzen 3000ready, it was even written on the box for marketing. So most likely some boards released after 4000 comes out will be ryzen 4000 ready, it'll definitely market it if it's ready, or market the flashback feature somewhere, you can use pcpartpicker for finding that, that's how I got to know the board I was going for with my 3600 (B450 Aorus Pro wifi) didn't ship 3000 ready and didn't have a flashback feature (meaning I needed a 1000/2000 CPU to boot and update bios), then I went for B550 aorus pro ac instead lol
Also, off topic, but Gamers Nexus is an excellent YouTube channel for tech info, apart from Linus Tech Tips
Good to know, that's clever, now that you mention it I do remember seeing those features reviewed in the past but I totally forgot about them, I guess when you are not thinking about updating the stuff you pay attention to in detail is much less selective than when you are.

Yeah, I've been following GamersNexus for a while now, he's an amazing source of information, LTT is more 'fun' perhaps to watch because of the style, but when I need specific info I check Steve's videos, I just haven't paid much attention to AMD's videos in depth for the past 1 or 2 years, I've noticed the shift in market because of how good Ryzen products have been lately, and I've watched some reviews, but not 'in depth' reviews (for example the whole RDNA and Infinity Fabric stuff, I know they exist and that they are architecture features from AMD but I haven't check detailed info about it to know exactly what they stand for and what they do).
 

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It is rumored to bring ~15% IPC gains, which is quite a big gain, IMO...

That should close the gap that exists between AMD's gaming frame rates and Intel, and, who would not love to see the 10700K/10900K's gaming performance challenged/equaled/exceeded, and at ~$100 less?
True, 15% IPC gains is considerable. Also true that it would be nice to see AMD gaming performance close the gap with Intel, especially if it's cheaper, we would all benefit from that. :)
 

Prad_Bitt

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Yeah I think that's actually the best option for me now, sometimes just waiting is the right answer. Thanks for all your explanation and info mate, it's was helpful. :)



I think I do have mounting brackets for AMD in the box, I'll have to check, don't know if it's for AM4 or a previous socket since the 212 Evo is a bit old by now (unless AM4 mounting mechanism is the same as previous AMD sockets?)



Ahhh, ok, what a mess, so basically the 4000 series with be both CPU 7nm AND 7nm APU, right? Will the 4000 series APU be based on Vega or Navi?



Ah ok, I did see there were 'PRO' versions of the 3000 and PRO versions of the 4000 announced as well, was wondering what was up with those and if they are worth it or not. I did watch a video from GamersNexus saying the pro versions are pretty much the same only that they include some security features and (very slightly) higher clocks, like... 100Mhz more, nothing really groundbreaking.
From what I know, AM3 and AM4 have different mounting holes, so I don't think so.
4000 APUs are basically 3000 CPUs (7nm) + iGPU which is Vega, as far as the rumor mill goes, but that should work fine as at least a buffer while changing GPUs. And 4000 CPUs are also 7nm yes
 

Prad_Bitt

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Good to know, that's clever, now that you mention it I do remember seeing those features reviewed in the past but I totally forgot about them, I guess when you are not thinking about updating the stuff you pay attention to in detail is much less selective than when you are.

Yeah, I've been following GamersNexus for a while now, he's an amazing source of information, LTT is more 'fun' perhaps to watch because of the style, but when I need specific info I check Steve's videos, I just haven't paid much attention to AMD's videos in depth for the past 1 or 2 years, I've noticed the shift in market because of how good Ryzen products have been lately, and I've watched some reviews, but not 'in depth' reviews (for example the whole RDNA and Infinity Fabric stuff, I know they exist and that they are architecture features from AMD but I haven't check detailed info about it to know exactly what they stand for and what they do).
Actually i dont know much about what the fabric and RDNA do either, that's too in depth for me and for most people I guess who aren't into computers as a line of career. I do think that the infinity fabric is what causes Ryzen to make huge gains with higher speed RAM, not sure tho so I wouldn't recommend telling that to someone else lol
 

Prad_Bitt

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Hey there!

I found this link about AMD's new CPUs launching soon. Apparently they're skipping the 4000 moniker after all to bring the APUs and laptop processors in line with the desktop CPUs. Like the whole "APUs are a generation behind" thing will be gone, the architecture and numbering will be the same now, this article suggests.


https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-s-Ryzen-7-5800X-and-Ryzen-9-5900X-CPUs-expected-to-land-on-October-20-Ryzen-5-5600X-and-Ryzen-9-5950X-may-launch-in-December.496314.0.html
 

Kevkas

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Hey there!

I found this link about AMD's new CPUs launching soon. Apparently they're skipping the 4000 moniker after all to bring the APUs and laptop processors in line with the desktop CPUs. Like the whole "APUs are a generation behind" thing will be gone, the architecture and numbering will be the same now, this article suggests.


https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-s-Ryzen-7-5800X-and-Ryzen-9-5900X-CPUs-expected-to-land-on-October-20-Ryzen-5-5600X-and-Ryzen-9-5950X-may-launch-in-December.496314.0.html
Hi mate, thanks for the link, I watched a couple of videos recently (I think GamersNexus or Moore's Law Is Dead) and a few articles here and there (can't remember where, I think on OC3D or Videocardz websites) saying that the new AMD cpu's will be called Ryzen 5000 (there are a few leaks even already) in order to keep them in line with their APUs generation. When I read that I actually remembered you and what you explained to me about being 'one generation behind' in the naming scheme, so I think it's the right call for them to do that. Finally, right!?

Thanks for taking the time to come back and leave a link for me, I'm currently waiting for the 3080 to become available here in Argentina and buy that one, for now I'll keep using my 6700K until I can afford a new mobo + cpu, but I think the old trusty 6700K will have to do for now.

Hope you are doing well and again, thanks for taking the time to come back and pass me that info. :)
 

Prad_Bitt

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Hi mate, thanks for the link, I watched a couple of videos recently (I think GamersNexus or Moore's Law Is Dead) and a few articles here and there (can't remember where, I think on OC3D or Videocardz websites) saying that the new AMD cpu's will be called Ryzen 5000 (there are a few leaks even already) in order to keep them in line with their APUs generation. When I read that I actually remembered you and what you explained to me about being 'one generation behind' in the naming scheme, so I think it's the right call for them to do that. Finally, right!?

Thanks for taking the time to come back and leave a link for me, I'm currently waiting for the 3080 to become available here in Argentina and buy that one, for now I'll keep using my 6700K until I can afford a new mobo + cpu, but I think the old trusty 6700K will have to do for now.

Hope you are doing well and again, thanks for taking the time to come back and pass me that info. :)
Yeah it is the right call, although I would've said it's better to release another series of APUs on 3000 but well that is trivial anyway. The 5800X seems to be beating the 10900K by 15% according to some articles so I'm pretty sure Intel is getting left behind in a couple months, idk about 10nm Intel next year cause who knows if they'll even be able to do it lol
 

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