Upgrade Path in Response to Ryzen Launch

[Hello man]

Hey guys,

I am a pretty experienced system builder and frequent Toms HW, but I have a few questions now that Ryzen has been launched with prices confirmed.

I am running a system that is dated. I know this. I will throw my specs out there for good measure.

-16GB of 1600mhz DDR3
-2xSeagate 3TB Drives running ReFS in a raid 1 to hold photos and videos (I am a videographer/photographer)
-1 240gb SATA 6GB SSD (not sure which, it has been a while)
-1 320gb HDD for games and random applications I don't want on the boot drive
-FX8350 at 4.6 GHZ
-Galaxy GTX680
-Asus M5A99X Evo R2.0
-Corsair 800D

The GPU and CPU are part of a water cooling loop. I won't list the specs of that, but it works great and I intend to water cool whatever parts go into this refresh.

So the key question is GPU or CPU first? I will likely have a theoretical budget of about $450. I know we don't have confirmed motherboard prices for AM4, but I would probably be buying a Ryzen 1700 (8 cores, 16 threads, 3.0Ghz base and 3.7 turbo) at $329. I will be overclocking it to 4.0, maybe a little higher so it basically becomes a 1700X. I will re-use my Swiftech Apogee HD.

I would be buying a motherboard in the $100 ish price range, maybe a little more, but not by a whole lot.

OR

I will replace my GTX680 soon, but since I have limited funds I kind of need a performance per dollar card here. I don't mind buying used stuff and likely will buy a used 980 or something, considering I need a waterblock.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I could push my 8350 up to 5.0 (the loop can handle it) and stick some better card in there for the time being....

 

[koreanoverlord]

I'd replace the 8350 first. GPUs become obsolete way faster than a CPU.

 

[burtman88]

Get the MSI EK X 1070 for your loop what i got for my loop system. OVer clocks great with added power phases added. Runs very cool as well.

 

[why_wolf]

side note are you sure your current CPU watercooling block will fit on a new AM4 socket size?

 

[geofelt]

In what way is your current pc not doing the job?

Is it for gaming, or batch applications?

If it is the cpu, will you benefit from more threads, or from better single thread performance?

Here are a few things to consider for gaming:
Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer with many participants tend to like many threads.

You need to find out which.
------------------------------------------------------------
To help clarify your CPU/GPU options, run these two tests:

a) Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 70%.
Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.
Conversely what a 30% improvement in core speed might do.

You should also experiment with removing one core. You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of processors to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.

If your FPS drops significantly, it is an indicator that your cpu is the limiting factor, and a cpu upgrade is in order.

It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system,
and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.
-------------------------------------------------------------

You might also use these tests to see how sensitive your batch apps are to many threads and single core performance.

As I see the initial ryzen 7 announcement, the only difference among the three products is the core speed.
My thought is that the more expensive products use better binnned chips that can perform at higher levels.
That leaves me to think that perhaps the entry level chips do not have high overclock potential.
That will not be so good for games that need a fast single master thread.

One might read "Amdahl's law" and the diminishing returns of many threads to see why single thread speed is important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law

Best to wait a bit for more independent reviews.

 

[Hello man]

side note are you sure your current CPU watercooling block will fit on a new AM4 socket size?

I'll likely need a new hold down bracket for the block but it's okay.

 

[Hello man]

In what way is your current pc not doing the job?

Is it for gaming, or batch applications?

If it is the cpu, will you benefit from more threads, or from better single thread performance?

Here are a few things to consider for gaming:
Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer with many participants tend to like many threads.

You need to find out which.
------------------------------------------------------------
To help clarify your CPU/GPU options, run these two tests:

a) Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 70%.
Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.
Conversely what a 30% improvement in core speed might do.

You should also experiment with removing one core. You can do this in the windows msconfig boot advanced options option.
You will need to reboot for the change to take effect. Set the number of processors to less than you have.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many threads.

If your FPS drops significantly, it is an indicator that your cpu is the limiting factor, and a cpu upgrade is in order.

It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system,
and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.
-------------------------------------------------------------

You might also use these tests to see how sensitive your batch apps are to many threads and single core performance.

As I see the initial ryzen 7 announcement, the only difference among the three products is the core speed.
My thought is that the more expensive products use better binnned chips that can perform at higher levels.
That leaves me to think that perhaps the entry level chips do not have high overclock potential.
That will not be so good for games that need a fast single master thread.

One might read "Amdahl's law" and the diminishing returns of many threads to see why single thread speed is important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law

Best to wait a bit for more independent reviews.

I was worried that they might be lower binned chips too-chips that aren't at all stable at higher frequency/power.

I use my system to edit videos in premier/after effects, photoshop, Lightroom and gaming. I play a lot of world of tanks at the moment, but also FPS and stuff like Ark Survival Evolved. I'll run tests when I get home.

 

[Hello man]

Alright: Here is what I have found-

Depending on the task, the system is usually pretty balanced. My GPU usage is pegged in most games as is the CPU load, telling me that it really is utilizing the fullest extent of both cards. I noticed after applying a slight overvolt to the 680 in Precision X that I gained 3 FPS on average in WOT. The 680 is running at 120% TDP right now and I am just letting it automatically boost to the highest clock it will handle.

Actually, I should disclose that this is really a GTX 670. However, I call it a 680 since it is on a 680 PCB and outperforms my friend's stock 680 (or at least used to, back when he had one). Turns out it is the same GK104 chip, but a lower binned one with some of the faulty cores disabled-then overclocked heavily from Galaxy due to it being a "slimmed" down chip on a 680 power delivery system.

Anyways, seems that performance is balanced at the moment. The question is, does it just make more sense to jump into the Ryzen lineup as soon as it is available because of the performance it provides? GPU prices fall so quickly that I kind of lean this way.

I am looking at the ASUS X370 PRIME PRO (don't yet know the price but should soon), ASROCK X370 KILLER SLI (also don't know the price), or the MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon Motherboard ($179 US). I want RGB capability and it HAS to be black or black and white. Otherwise, I WILL die and never finish this build refresh due to horrible aesthetics. (my build theme is black and white)