[SOLVED] Upgrade (Pre)Install Advice...Testing For DoA? Parts?

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
1) I'm wanting to know if there is anything I can or should do before installing everything (details below)-
a)Test for DoA?
b)Anything else?

2) What steps do you do for your builds?

3)Do you have any tips to make things go smoother?

4) Or do I just need to get everything installed in the case, power on to check for power and fans spinning then install Windows, drivers, software?

5) Anything I've missed?

FOR CONTEXT-

I have an old HP HPE-500F that I've upgraded as much as possible, adding-
  • NVIDIA GeForce 1050ti
  • Corsair CX750
  • 16GB (4x4GB) G. Skill DDR3 PC1333 RAM
  • 500GB Samsung 860 Evo SSD (OS)
  • WD Blue 1TB HDD (in addition to WD Green 1.5TB HDD factory installed)
Ever since the upgrade I've had issues with the BSoD (probably 20-25 times in nearly 2 years). I've just been reading up on how to figure out what's causing it, using WinDbg, but I haven't done it yet. My thoughts are the RAM or SSD, but that's just a guess.

For the upgrade (basically a new build if I can decide on a case soon) I already have sitting here-
  • Ryzen 7 2700 (w/ Wraith Spire)
  • MSI B450 Gaming Carbon Pro AC
  • Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 3200
  • Samsung 970 Evo Plus M.2 2280 1TB PCIe NVMe
  • (3) Corsair ML120 RGB PWM Fans (might swap for 140mm for new case)
  • Speclux RGB LED Strips (will be here tomorrow)
  • Windows 10 Pro OEM (USB)
  • 40x40mm Innovative Cooling Graphite Thermal Pad
  • Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Thermal Paste (will be here tomorrow, 9/19)
My current case is a ThermalTake V3. I'm going to reassemble the HP in it (to use for something) as soon as I figure out which new case I want. In the meantime I'd like to install the new parts in my current case using the PSU and 1050ti to get everything working (make sure nothing is DOA) and see how the extra RGB wiring fits as I'm planning on adding at least 1 but possiblly 3 more fans and maybe an AIO...all with RGB.

I've found about 7 cases I'm going back and forth on, but none have everything I'm looking for. I figure installing everything in my current case will bring to my attention the priority of features needed. Who knows, I could install everything and it runs fine, or by adding 1 or 2 ML120 top exhaust fans everything stays cool (although no full side panel to see the RGB). Either way, it should help me make a decision.

I haven't overclocked before but I'm considering it, which I know for that I'll need an AIO. I don't play games- it's video streaming, editing, and CAD that is the most intense. I figured I'd try it without overclocking using the Spire cooler. No doubt it will be a great improvement over my current system.

To note- I'll probably use the WD Blue HDD temporarily or just get a Hyperx RGB SSD, I'm thinking of getting an RGB PSU at some point and in the near future I will most likely be upgrading the VGA to a Quadro P2000 (or something comparable). I first want to see how the 1050ti works with the new components.

Also to note- as far as experience I've had my computer completely apart for cleaning a number of times (other than removing the processor), so I'm comfortable with the process. I've never done or attempted a full build with having to install Windows, etc. I don't want to make things harder for myself and I especially don't want to screw anything up or ruin the motherboard, processor or anything else.

Thanks in advance for your time and input! :)
 
Last edited:

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Q&A:

1.a. Easy, just breadboard your MoBo.
Idea is to put your MoBo to any non-conductive surface (MoBo's retail box will do fine), install CPU, CPU cooler, RAM and GPU to MoBo. Hook monitor to GPU, install PSU and it's power cables (24-pin ATX, 4/8-pin EPS12V and 6/8-pin PCI-E for GPU). Then, power on the system (by shorting the power + and - pins on MoBo with screwdriver). For more convenient power-on, hook PC case's front I/O cables as well. Don't forget to hook up KB and mouse as well.
Here's how it looks like:
My Skylake build breadboard when i bought it, full specs with pics in my sig.
Note: Since i have Intel build where CPU has on-board graphics, i didn't need to install dedicated GPU.
1.b. Without storage drive and on power-on, PC boots into BIOS. Here is good time to look around BIOS (e.g if RAM XMP holds) and/or deal with any POST issues you may have. It's also good place where to hook up storage drive and install OS (given you hooked up USB 2.0/3.0 cable. Oh, to shut down the PC, flip the PSU switch.

2. Well, what i 1st do is breadboarding to make sure hardware works. Installing OS is also good to do during breadboarding.
Once the system works, i'll disassemble it a bit and install MoBo with CPU and CPU cooler to PC case. Full assembly then follows, including proper cable management.

3. Take you time. Also double-triple check everything, both during breadboard assembly and final assembly. Also, plan ahead with cable routing so, that, cable management looks nice. With cables, i 1st install PSU cables since those are most bulky ones and they also need to remain presentable. 2nd set of cables would be SATA data, SATA power and molex power cables (since those remain behind MoBo tray). Final set of cables i do are fan wires since they are thin and easy to route.

4. Bad idea. Read 1.a.

5. As soon as your open MoBo's retail box, dig out the holy bible of PCs (aka MoBo manual) and give it a good read. It has a lot of answers in it that you can have during PC assemble. Also, it has a nice guide for PC components assembly.

Misc:
Why do you need thermal pads?
Also, thermal paste isn't necessary since Wraith Spire has thermal paste pre-applied.

As far as PSU goes, there are only two "RGB" PSUs that are worth the money:
  1. Asus ROG series (specs)
  2. Thermaltake ToughPower ARGB / RGB series (e.g this one)
The rest is usually garbage, including Thermaltake Litepower RGB and Smart RGB series.

I wouldn't buy RGB PSU since PSU's job is to power your PC while providing clean electricity to your components, not sit there and look pretty, which many crap quality "RGB" PSUs are. To me, 1st and most important is build quality (e.g any Seasonic PSU). 2nd would be ease of use/installation (e.g digital PSU to monitor PSU state and fully-modular to ease cable management). For digital PSU, i'd look towards NZXT E-series (made by Seasonic) or Asus ROG series (also made by Seasonic). Corsair also has some digital PSU's in their lineup (e.g RMi, HXi and AXi series). RGB fan inside PSU is completely irrelevant to me. Also, if you buy a PC case that has PSU shroud which completely hides your PSU, what good is RGB PSU then?

Oh, what makes you think that to OC your CPU, you absolutely "need" an AIO? You do realize that both the air cooler (aka tower cooler) and rad on AIO are cooled by ambient air? Also, if you like, i can discuss further about air cooler vs AIO and why AIO in general isn't as good choice as air cooler is.
 
Reactions: TimH77

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Q&A:

1.a. Easy, just breadboard your MoBo.
Idea is to put your MoBo to any non-conductive surface (MoBo's retail box will do fine), install CPU, CPU cooler, RAM and GPU to MoBo. Hook monitor to GPU, install PSU and it's power cables (24-pin ATX, 4/8-pin EPS12V and 6/8-pin PCI-E for GPU). Then, power on the system (by shorting the power + and - pins on MoBo with screwdriver). For more convenient power-on, hook PC case's front I/O cables as well. Don't forget to hook up KB and mouse as well.
Here's how it looks like:
My Skylake build breadboard when i bought it, full specs with pics in my sig.
Note: Since i have Intel build where CPU has on-board graphics, i didn't need to install dedicated GPU.
1.b. Without storage drive and on power-on, PC boots into BIOS. Here is good time to look around BIOS (e.g if RAM XMP holds) and/or deal with any POST issues you may have. It's also good place where to hook up storage drive and install OS (given you hooked up USB 2.0/3.0 cable. Oh, to shut down the PC, flip the PSU switch.

2. Well, what i 1st do is breadboarding to make sure hardware works. Installing OS is also good to do during breadboarding.
Once the system works, i'll disassemble it a bit and install MoBo with CPU and CPU cooler to PC case. Full assembly then follows, including proper cable management.

3. Take you time. Also double-triple check everything, both during breadboard assembly and final assembly. Also, plan ahead with cable routing so, that, cable management looks nice. With cables, i 1st install PSU cables since those are most bulky ones and they also need to remain presentable. 2nd set of cables would be SATA data, SATA power and molex power cables (since those remain behind MoBo tray). Final set of cables i do are fan wires since they are thin and easy to route.

4. Bad idea. Read 1.a.

5. As soon as your open MoBo's retail box, dig out the holy bible of PCs (aka MoBo manual) and give it a good read. It has a lot of answers in it that you can have during PC assemble. Also, it has a nice guide for PC components assembly.

Misc:
Why do you need thermal pads?
Also, thermal paste isn't necessary since Wraith Spire has thermal paste pre-applied.

As far as PSU goes, there are only two "RGB" PSUs that are worth the money:
  1. Asus ROG series (specs)
  2. Thermaltake ToughPower ARGB / RGB series (e.g this one)
The rest is usually garbage, including Thermaltake Litepower RGB and Smart RGB series.

I wouldn't buy RGB PSU since PSU's job is to power your PC while providing clean electricity to your components, not sit there and look pretty, which many crap quality "RGB" PSUs are. To me, 1st and most important is build quality (e.g any Seasonic PSU). 2nd would be ease of use/installation (e.g digital PSU to monitor PSU state and fully-modular to ease cable management). For digital PSU, i'd look towards NZXT E-series (made by Seasonic) or Asus ROG series (also made by Seasonic). Corsair also has some digital PSU's in their lineup (e.g RMi, HXi and AXi series). RGB fan inside PSU is completely irrelevant to me. Also, if you buy a PC case that has PSU shroud which completely hides your PSU, what good is RGB PSU then?

Oh, what makes you think that to OC your CPU, you absolutely "need" an AIO? You do realize that both the air cooler (aka tower cooler) and rad on AIO are cooled by ambient air? Also, if you like, i can discuss further about air cooler vs AIO and why AIO in general isn't as good choice as air cooler is.
 
Reactions: TimH77

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
Q&A:

1.a. Easy, just breadboard your MoBo.
Idea is to put your MoBo to any non-conductive surface (MoBo's retail box will do fine), install CPU, CPU cooler, RAM and GPU to MoBo. Hook monitor to GPU, install PSU and it's power cables (24-pin ATX, 4/8-pin EPS12V and 6/8-pin PCI-E for GPU). Then, power on the system (by shorting the power + and - pins on MoBo with screwdriver). For more convenient power-on, hook PC case's front I/O cables as well. Don't forget to hook up KB and mouse as well.
Here's how it looks like:
My Skylake build breadboard when i bought it, full specs with pics in my sig.
Note: Since i have Intel build where CPU has on-board graphics, i didn't need to install dedicated GPU.
1.b. Without storage drive and on power-on, PC boots into BIOS. Here is good time to look around BIOS (e.g if RAM XMP holds) and/or deal with any POST issues you may have. It's also good place where to hook up storage drive and install OS (given you hooked up USB 2.0/3.0 cable. Oh, to shut down the PC, flip the PSU switch.

2. Well, what i 1st do is breadboarding to make sure hardware works. Installing OS is also good to do during breadboarding.
Once the system works, i'll disassemble it a bit and install MoBo with CPU and CPU cooler to PC case. Full assembly then follows, including proper cable management.

3. Take you time. Also double-triple check everything, both during breadboard assembly and final assembly. Also, plan ahead with cable routing so, that, cable management looks nice. With cables, i 1st install PSU cables since those are most bulky ones and they also need to remain presentable. 2nd set of cables would be SATA data, SATA power and molex power cables (since those remain behind MoBo tray). Final set of cables i do are fan wires since they are thin and easy to route.

4. Bad idea. Read 1.a.

5. As soon as your open MoBo's retail box, dig out the holy bible of PCs (aka MoBo manual) and give it a good read. It has a lot of answers in it that you can have during PC assemble. Also, it has a nice guide for PC components assembly.

Misc:
Why do you need thermal pads?
Also, thermal paste isn't necessary since Wraith Spire has thermal paste pre-applied.

As far as PSU goes, there are only two "RGB" PSUs that are worth the money:
  1. Asus ROG series (specs)
  2. Thermaltake ToughPower ARGB / RGB series (e.g this one)
The rest is usually garbage, including Thermaltake Litepower RGB and Smart RGB series.

I wouldn't buy RGB PSU since PSU's job is to power your PC while providing clean electricity to your components, not sit there and look pretty, which many crap quality "RGB" PSUs are. To me, 1st and most important is build quality (e.g any Seasonic PSU). 2nd would be ease of use/installation (e.g digital PSU to monitor PSU state and fully-modular to ease cable management). For digital PSU, i'd look towards NZXT E-series (made by Seasonic) or Asus ROG series (also made by Seasonic). Corsair also has some digital PSU's in their lineup (e.g RMi, HXi and AXi series). RGB fan inside PSU is completely irrelevant to me. Also, if you buy a PC case that has PSU shroud which completely hides your PSU, what good is RGB PSU then?

Oh, what makes you think that to OC your CPU, you absolutely "need" an AIO? You do realize that both the air cooler (aka tower cooler) and rad on AIO are cooled by ambient air? Also, if you like, i can discuss further about air cooler vs AIO and why AIO in general isn't as good choice as air cooler is.
Thanks! That's precisely the info I was looking for...I didn't know it was called breadboxing.

I figured installing everything and hoping for the best was a bad idea, hence the reason for the post. By the way, I'm changing from a 2700 to a 2700x (performance plus Prism cooler now that I may stick with the air cooler), which is on the way.

I got the thermal pad because I was contemplating between the Wraith cooler and an AIO. I figured I'd try one for a few weeks or so then try the other... less mess until I figured ot which one I wanted to stick with. I bought the thermal paste before realizing the Wraith coolers come pre-applied with paste, but I may need it down the road.

The Thermaltake ToughPower RGB PSU (750, 850 or 1200) is the one I am considering. I'm debating between 7 cases-

Phanteks Eclipse P600S
Deepcool Matrexx 70
Raidmax Enigma S14-TB
DIYPC Mirage-ARGB Black
Lian Li Lancool One Digital Black or white
Corsair iCUE 220T
Corsair Carbide SPEC-06 RGB
Corsair Carbide 175R RGB
Cooler Master MasterCase H500M
Cooler Master MasterCase MC600P

I have reasons for each. I can't find one case that has everything I want, although the Deepcool case has everything except grommets in the mobo tray holes (not the hole behind the CPU, the smaller holes).

I was considering a few others without PSU shrouds, but even the ones with PSU shrouds the RGB fan will face the bottom and light up the under side of the case (plus I'll have mine sitting on a stand with a mirror on top so it will be reflected and seen).

*With the lights off and all the RGB I'll be able to throw a rave (not that I'm into that anymore but it's a possibility...I still have flashbacks and get 'the feeling,' especially playing my old school techno cd's...just no stimulants/chemicals). :p

The Deepcool case has a tempered glass top shroud, which will reflect all of the RGB, and the Raidmax case with the top PSU mount has a bottom cutout for the fan, so it will be seen inside the case.

I was also looking at dual system cases but wasn't sure what the parameters of the system(s) is (or the uses) or if I would just be better saving for a new system with the newest components built for sheer performance, like an X570, Threadripper, etc (or possiblly Intel...I'd like suggestions since it's all above my knowledge or expertise). No doubt what I'm putting together will be good enough for now, but I want to put together a more professional/heavy use setup for a business I'm working on (streaming, video editing, CAD, 3D Printing), but I'll make a separate post on that.

I posted Wraith Spire vs AIO, plus read other posts, and I believe all but one person said if OC'ing an AIO is needed (not sure if changing from a 2700 65W TDP to a 2700x 105W TDP changes your opinion). I figured the longer I could keep the CPU as cool a possible the better the performance.
 
Last edited:

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Since choosing a PC case is personal choice, go with the one that you like the most.
Though a note about PC cases. Every PC case that has solid front panel (plastic, metal or TG) will have considerable handicap in frontal airflow intake. Sure, you can counter it with high static pressure fans but with those you'll also get more noise. Also, many PC cases with solid front panel have inadequate filters if any at all. And cleaning said filters is more difficult than e.g PC case that has open grille at the front.

Speaking of front panel and cleaning the filters, i prefer it to be both practical and easy to maintain. E.g here's image of my Corsair 760T V2 Black (Skylake build) front panel:
Left: Stock grille + Demciflex aftermarket filter
Middle: Stock grille
Right: No grille
With my PC case, i can easily take the filter and grille off to clean them, without the need to remove the entire front fascia to clean it. Same goes with my Corsair 750D Airflow Edition case (Haswell build). Full specs with more pics in my sig.

Dual-system PC cases do have their uses. On top of my mind, i can think two instances:
  1. Gaming + streaming. In one PC case, you can have gaming build (e.g ATX MoBo) and dedicated streaming build (with mini-ITX MoBo) and capture card.
  2. Production work + leisure. Same MoBo setup as above (ATX + mini-ITX), where while the main build (ATX MoBo) renders, you can use smaller build (mini-ITX) to do other tasks (e.g casual gaming, web browsing etc, without pulling away resources from rendering (and extending render time).
As far as AIOs vs air coolers go, you won't gain any cooling performance if you go with AIO over air cooler since both are cooled by ambient air.
For equal cooling performance between AIOs and air coolers, rad needs to be 240mm or 280mm. Smaller rads: 120mm and 140mm are almost always outperformed by mid-sized air coolers. Single slot rads are good in mini-ITX builds where you don't have enough CPU cooler clearance to install mid-sized CPU air cooler.

Here are the positive sides of both (air and AIO) CPU cooling methods;

Pros of air coolers:
less cost
less maintenance
less noise
far longer longevity
no leakage risks
doesn't take up case fan slots
additional cooling for the RAM
CPU cools down faster after heavy heat output

Pros of AIOs:
no RAM clearance issues*
no CPU clearance issues
CPU takes longer time to heat up during heavy heat output (about 30 mins)
* on some cases, top mounted rad can give RAM clearance issues

While how the CPU cooler looks inside the PC depends on a person. Some people prefer to see small AIO pump in the middle of their MoBo with tubing going to the rad while others prefer to see big heatsink with fans in the middle of their MoBo.

Main difference between AIO and air cooler is that with AIO, you'll get more noise at a higher cost while cooling performance remains the same.
Here's also one good article for you to read where king of air coolers (Noctua NH-D15) was put against 5x high-end AIOs, including king of AIOs (NZXT x61 Kraken),
link: http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

Since NH-D15 aesthetics isn't best due to the beige/brown coloring of their fans, i usually suggest going with Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 which has far better aesthetics while cooling performance difference is 1-2 degrees Celsius from NH-D15,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-3-cpu-cooler,4350.html

Personally, i'd go with air coolers every day of the week. With same cooling performance, the pros of air coolers outweigh the pros of AIOs considerably. While, for me, the 3 main pros would be:
1. Less noise.
Since i like my PC to be quiet, i can't stand the loud noise AIO makes. Also, when air gets trapped inside the AIO (some AIOs are more prone to this than others), there's additional noise coming from inside the pump.
2. Longevity.
Cheaper AIOs usually last 2-3 years and high-end ones 4-5 years before you need to replace it. While with air coolers, their life expectancy is basically unlimited. Only thing that can go bad on an air cooler is the fan on it. If the fan dies, your CPU still has cooling in form of a big heatsink. Also, new 120mm or 140mm fan doesn't cost much and it's easy to replace one. While with AIOs, the main thing that usually goes bad is the pump itself. And when that happens, your CPU has no cooling whatsoever. Since you can't replace pump on an AIO, you need to buy whole new AIO to replace the old one out.
3. No leakage risks.
Since there's liquid circling inside the AIO, there is always a risk that your AIO can leak. While it's rare, it has happened. It's well known fact that liquids and electronics don't mix.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: TimH77

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
As far as cases- top, bottom and front filters are a priority. Openness and ease to clean is also definitely a priority.

The Corsair 220T looks easy with not the entire front panel needing to be removed, just the slotted flat panel.

The Deepcool case also seems easy because you push one button and the front panel releases, tilting the top out and allowing access to the front filter.

These are my two favorite from the bunch mainly for those reasons (also the Deepcool case has a similar release for the side tempered glass).

Also tied with those two case is the Phanteks Eclipse (has a few pros the other two don't have.. including an accessory for a dual system, which I'm not sure how that works because I just noticed it). It doesn't have as easy access to remove the front filter but the front sound deadening panel can can be removed for better air intake and also exposing nearly the entire front filter, allowing it to be cleaned.

I do like the look of the AIO pump over the CPU, but I may like the Prism just as much...and like you, I prefer my computer not to sound like it's a rocket ready to takeoff (or as silent as possible). Haha

I'll read the links you posted about fan vs AIO. My thinking was even though they are both ultimately air cooled, with an AIO the heat is distributed in liquid, removing the heat from the CPU faster and over greater area (figuring I'd be going with a 280mm AIO...a Corsair H115i).

Good info on the dual systems! How would the monitors work? Can the same monitor(s) display both systems or would it be 1or 2 monitors for one system and a separate monitor for the other?
 
Last edited:

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Cases
With PC cases, read the reviews or watch video reviews of them to get the idea how they are. That's what i did when i was looking for a case for my Skylake build. My requirements were:
  • full-tower ATX
  • front grille for good airflow
  • 2-3x 5.25" external bays
  • high build quality
  • fancy looking
With my searches, 3x cases remained: Corsair 760T, Corsair 780T and Phanteks Enthoo Pro. I almost went with the 780T but thanks to the video reviews, i saw that 760T is more practical and that's how i ended up with 760T.

Deepcool video review:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDMCFhQ0AfA

With Phanteks Eclipse P600S and it's dual system - i can't tell how 2nd build would fit in there. There is a dedicated bracket that you'll need but i couldn't find any info on how it would actually look once build is complete.

Filters
When it comes to the filters, i have yet to see an adequate stock filter on a PC case. Either the mesh filters have too big of a holes in them or foam filter is in use which restricts airflow considerably and is PITA to clean as well (e.g Fractal Design Meshify C front filter is foam filter).

As you've already seen, i'm using aftermarket filters. I have Demciflex dust filter kits in use with my Skylake and Haswell builds. So far, i'm very pleased with the performance of Demciflex dust filters for 3 reasons:
  1. Very fine mesh, catching almost all dust, while doesn't hinder the airflow.
  2. Easy to install and remove (since it has magnetic strip, it just peels off from any metal surface).
  3. Very easy to clean. Just rinse under slow moving water and pat dry with towel.
Demciflex has made custom filter kits for many of the PC cases,
link: https://www.demcifilter.com/magnetic-computer-dust-filters-for-your-computer
And even if your PC case isn't listed there, you can buy standard sized filters or order a custom one.
Here's also a video presentation of Demciflex filters (not the best screenplay but gets the point across):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcJYl8UdPjw

Noise
In the fan world, anything below 20 dB(A) is considered as silent. 20 - 30 dB(A) is audible, 30 - 40 dB(A) is loud and anything over 40 dB(A) is very loud.

The thing with PC cases is that it isn't the case that makes the noise but instead the case fans you put into there.
If i were to take a "quiet" case like Corsair 400Q and put a Noctua NF-F12 industrialPPC-3000 PWM fan into it which outputs 43.5 dB(A), then you can be certain that the PC won't be quiet at all, despite the claims it being quiet.

To get the best possible airflow with the least amount of noise, install as many fans in your case as possible. Preferably 140mm rather than 120mm since 140mm fan moves more air and does that more quietly than it's (same spec) 120mm counterpart.
While installing 5x to 7x fans in your PC may look like that you'd get extremely loud noise out of your PC, it's actually vice-versa. The trick is that the more fans you have inside the case, the less each fan has to work to maintain the airflow and the less noise fans produce.
And that is also a main reason why i have 7x high-end case fans in my Skylake and Haswell builds (Corsair ML Pro LED and NZXT AER140 RGB). Mostly 140mm but few 120mm as well. Full specs with pics in my sig. Since i have that many case fans, i can keep all of my case fans spinning between 800 - 1100 RPM and thanks to this, my PCs are very quiet while still having proper airflow inside my full-tower ATX cases.

Dual-system
Yes, it is possible to have 2x PCs with only one monitor, KB and mouse. To do that, you'd need either hardware KVM switch or software KVM switch,
further reading: https://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/how-to-connect-two-or-more-computers-to-one-monitor/

How do I 'select answer' or 'best response?'

Although I signed up a couple years ago I'm basically new to posting here.
At the top left corner of the reply, there is a trophy icon (just above up and down vote arrows). If you click that, Best Answer is selected.
 
Reactions: TimH77

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
Cases
With PC cases, read the reviews or watch video reviews of them to get the idea how they are. That's what i did when i was looking for a case for my Skylake build. My requirements were:
  • full-tower ATX
  • front grille for good airflow
  • 2-3x 5.25" external bays
  • high build quality
  • fancy looking
With my searches, 3x cases remained: Corsair 760T, Corsair 780T and Phanteks Enthoo Pro. I almost went with the 780T but thanks to the video reviews, i saw that 760T is more practical and that's how i ended up with 760T.

Deepcool video review:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDMCFhQ0AfA

With Phanteks Eclipse P600S and it's dual system - i can't tell how 2nd build would fit in there. There is a dedicated bracket that you'll need but i couldn't find any info on how it would actually look once build is complete.

Filters
When it comes to the filters, i have yet to see an adequate stock filter on a PC case. Either the mesh filters have too big of a holes in them or foam filter is in use which restricts airflow considerably and is PITA to clean as well (e.g Fractal Design Meshify C front filter is foam filter).

As you've already seen, i'm using aftermarket filters. I have Demciflex dust filter kits in use with my Skylake and Haswell builds. So far, i'm very pleased with the performance of Demciflex dust filters for 3 reasons:
  1. Very fine mesh, catching almost all dust, while doesn't hinder the airflow.
  2. Easy to install and remove (since it has magnetic strip, it just peels off from any metal surface).
  3. Very easy to clean. Just rinse under slow moving water and pat dry with towel.
Demciflex has made custom filter kits for many of the PC cases,
link: https://www.demcifilter.com/magnetic-computer-dust-filters-for-your-computer
And even if your PC case isn't listed there, you can buy standard sized filters or order a custom one.
Here's also a video presentation of Demciflex filters (not the best screenplay but gets the point across):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcJYl8UdPjw

Noise
In the fan world, anything below 20 dB(A) is considered as silent. 20 - 30 dB(A) is audible, 30 - 40 dB(A) is loud and anything over 40 dB(A) is very loud.

The thing with PC cases is that it isn't the case that makes the noise but instead the case fans you put into there.
If i were to take a "quiet" case like Corsair 400Q and put a Noctua NF-F12 industrialPPC-3000 PWM fan into it which outputs 43.5 dB(A), then you can be certain that the PC won't be quiet at all, despite the claims it being quiet.

To get the best possible airflow with the least amount of noise, install as many fans in your case as possible. Preferably 140mm rather than 120mm since 140mm fan moves more air and does that more quietly than it's (same spec) 120mm counterpart.
While installing 5x to 7x fans in your PC may look like that you'd get extremely loud noise out of your PC, it's actually vice-versa. The trick is that the more fans you have inside the case, the less each fan has to work to maintain the airflow and the less noise fans produce.
And that is also a main reason why i have 7x high-end case fans in my Skylake and Haswell builds (Corsair ML Pro LED and NZXT AER140 RGB). Mostly 140mm but few 120mm as well. Full specs with pics in my sig. Since i have that many case fans, i can keep all of my case fans spinning between 800 - 1100 RPM and thanks to this, my PCs are very quiet while still having proper airflow inside my full-tower ATX cases.

Dual-system
Yes, it is possible to have 2x PCs with only one monitor, KB and mouse. To do that, you'd need either hardware KVM switch or software KVM switch,
further reading: https://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/how-to-connect-two-or-more-computers-to-one-monitor/


At the top left corner of the reply, there is a trophy icon (just above up and down vote arrows). If you click that, Best Answer is selected.
I pulled up review videos for each case, which I found all except two. I'm in the process of watching them. Watching the Deepcool review has basically changed my mind...with the front glass panel front and the air intakes not providing enough air during testing.

P600S and the dual-system setup. After studying the images for a while (it was driving me crazy) I came to the conclusion the second system (Mini ITX) is mounted on the top, where the top fans would go. It looks like I'd lose two top fans but there might still be room for one top fan, either a 140mm or maybe only a 120mm.

Here is what I just found- if you look at this pic it shows the top, rear plate of the P600S is removable and is where the I/O of the Mini ITX board goes. The mobo bracket is installed at the top, rear of the case. This pic is showing the cable side of the main CPU and the Mini ITX system perpendicular to it, which you can also see the top fan bracket above the Mini ITX mobo. The Phanteks Evolv X has the same setup...here is a pic of a dual-system build in an Evolv X.

I checked out the pics of your builds, really nice! You've got some money invested for sure! How much do you have invested in all 3 builds, including all RGB items, chairs, speakers and UPS's, etc?

Oh, I see you are from Estonia. We have a close family friend who lives nearby and is from Estonia!

Question- on your Skylake system, you have 4 sticks of RAM. How much is that and is it maxed out? From what I was told in here I was better off with 2 x 16GB vs 4 x 8GB (max 64GB), which I noticed in your Haswell build it looks like two sticks of RAM in the B DIMM slots.

My current setup is similar to yours, with a CD/DVD drive, multi-card reader and instead of a fan controller(which I've been looking at and debating vs controlling fans with iCUE) I have an RGB controller which I won't need anymore.

I figured I'd just get an external CD/DVD drive and a USB multi-cardreader because I don't use them much. I like the clean look without seeing the optical drives through the tempered glass. No optical drives allow another front fan and my laptop doesn't have a CD/DVD drive or (multi-)card reader so I can use both of them for my desktop and laptop when needed. Although having a fan controller, especially if im using Mystic Light instead of iCUE, would be nice seeing the temps with easy control. This is another reason I figured I'd just put everything in my current case, to see exactly how I'll be using everything and what is or isn't needed.

I was considering the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M, but when I decided not to include 5.25" bays it was off the list. I do like a number of Phanteks cases.

I checked out the Demciflex filters and will be adding them, thanks!

I get the more fans less noise and 140mm over 120mm. I've been looking through the cases to find 140mm for all locations (preferred), or at least 140mm front intake and rear exhaust then 120mm top fans if the case has other benefits. So needless to say I'll be swapping the Corsair ML120 RGB for ML140 RGB.

Funny the trophy was the 'best solution,' which makes sense. I tried tapping it before but didn't see anything happen like I noticed the first time I did it on accident. I'm assuming the up and down arrows are upvote, downvote? Or do they actually move the post up and down?

I looked for a guide or help with navigating the forum but couldn't find anything. Maybe they have it and I missed it but they should create a video tutorial navigating ther forum and pin it somewhere.
 

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
Question- if I did go with the Corsair 220T (good reviews for airflow, etc... which is my initial thought), which comes with 3 LL RGB 120mm fans in front, no exhaust fan and the option of 2 120mm or 140mm fans up top. For curiosity, if I stuck with the 3 ML120mm fans I already have, am I correct the 3 ML120mm fans would be better up front and move the 3 LL120mm fans to rear exhaust and top exhaust?

The Phanteks 350x has also has great reviews, even showing airflow is great despite the closed front.
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
I pulled up review videos for each case, which I found all except two. I'm in the process of watching them. Watching the Deepcool review has basically changed my mind...with the front glass panel front and the air intakes not providing enough air during testing.

P600S and the dual-system setup. After studying the images for a while (it was driving me crazy) I came to the conclusion the second system (Mini ITX) is mounted on the top, where the top fans would go. It looks like I'd lose two top fans but there might still be room for one top fan, either a 140mm or maybe only a 120mm.

Here is what I just found- if you look at this pic it shows the top, rear plate of the P600S is removable and is where the I/O of the Mini ITX board goes. The mobo bracket is installed at the top, rear of the case. This pic is showing the cable side of the main CPU and the Mini ITX system perpendicular to it, which you can also see the top fan bracket above the Mini ITX mobo. The Phanteks Evolv X has the same setup...here is a pic of a dual-system build in an Evolv X.
Thanks for clearing up the dual-build confusion with P600S.

As seen from images you provided, both build's CPUs would be very close to each other and finding suitable coolers without clearance issues is a nice headache.

I checked out the pics of your builds, really nice! You've got some money invested for sure! How much do you have invested in all 3 builds, including all RGB items, chairs, speakers and UPS's, etc?

Oh, I see you are from Estonia. We have a close family friend who lives nearby and is from Estonia!

Question- on your Skylake system, you have 4 sticks of RAM. How much is that and is it maxed out? From what I was told in here I was better off with 2 x 16GB vs 4 x 8GB (max 64GB), which I noticed in your Haswell build it looks like two sticks of RAM in the B DIMM slots.
To know how much i've spent on each and every component, here are pcpp pages to all 3x of my builds, where i've listed the actual component purchase price as well,
Skylake: https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/bd9J7P
Haswell: https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/RRvnTW
AMD: https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/2Y9J7P

Oh, i had my builds listed in pcpp long before CableMod created builds.gg site. Before builds.gg site, my signature linked to the pcpp links.

Estonia is nice place where to live and most people whom i've talked to here in TH's forums never heard about Estonia.
For your family friend, you can tell him/her the following line:"Tervitused Eestist!". (Translation:"Greetings from Estonia!") :giggle:

In my Skylake build, i have 4x 4GB (16GB) of RAM. When i 1st bought the initial components for my Skylake build, RAM was expensive and i didn't have enough funds to go with 2x 8GB off the bat. I bought additional RAM down the line and hence why i have 4x stick of RAM.
While some may argue that filling all 4x RAM slots put more work on MoBo's memory controller and while that may be true, using 4x sticks of RAM has faster RAM response time than using 2x sticks of RAM.
Example scenario: let's say CPU needs to access data at 2.3GB mark and 6.2GB mark, out of total of 16GB of RAM. With 2x 8GB stick configuration, CPU can do each task one at a time. 1st accessing the spot at 2.3GB and then at 6.2GB since both spots are inside single 8GB RAM stick. With 4x 4GB stick configuration, CPU can access both spots at the same time since 1st spot would be in 1st 4GB RAM stick and 2nd spot would be in 2nd 4GB RAM stick. Also, filling up all slots looks much nicer as well. So, there's some eyecandy as well.
With Haswell build, i have 2x 8GB (16GB) DDR3 RAM in there. Since DDR3 RAM is hard to find, especially as brand new and meeting my requirements, i went with 2x 8GB since i wasn't able to find 4x 4GB set as brand new.

Funny the trophy was the 'best solution,' which makes sense. I tried tapping it before but didn't see anything happen like I noticed the first time I did it on accident. I'm assuming the up and down arrows are upvote, downvote? Or do they actually move the post up and down?

I looked for a guide or help with navigating the forum but couldn't find anything. Maybe they have it and I missed it but they should create a video tutorial navigating ther forum and pin it somewhere.
The arrows under Trophy icons are for up- and downvote. As far as rearranging replies within topic goes, i'm not sure that even a mod can do that (that feature may not be present in this new forum format).

There are several guides on how to understand the new forum format. Read the Sticky topics in here, link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/forums/forum-feedback.64/
And here's forum main page, link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/

Question- if I did go with the Corsair 220T (good reviews for airflow, etc... which is my initial thought), which comes with 3 LL RGB 120mm fans in front, no exhaust fan and the option of 2 120mm or 140mm fans up top. For curiosity, if I stuck with the 3 ML120mm fans I already have, am I correct the 3 ML120mm fans would be better up front and move the 3 LL120mm fans to rear exhaust and top exhaust?

The Phanteks 350x has also has great reviews, even showing airflow is great despite the closed front.
Corsair iCUE 220T RGB comes with 3x 120mm SP RGB Pro fans, not 3x 120mm LL RGB fans,
case specs: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Cases/Mid-Tower-ATX-Cases/iCUE-220T-RGB-Airflow-Tempered-Glass-Mid-Tower-Smart-Case/p/CC-9011173-WW
fan specs: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/RGB-&-LED-Fans/iCUE-SP-Series-RGB-PRO-Performance/p/CO-9050094-WW#tab-tech-specs

What does come with 3x 120mm LL RGB fans is Corsair i465X RGB,
specs: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Cases/Software-Control-and-Monitoring-Cases/iCUE-465X-RGB-Mid-Tower-ATX-Smart-Case/p/CC-9011188-WW
fan specs: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-config/p/CO-9050072-WW#tab-tech-specs

Since LL RGB, SP RGB Pro and ML Pro RGB fans have equally mediocre performance, it doesn't matter where you put them in your case. If you'd have high-performance fans (e.g like my ML Pro LED) to go alongside them, then yes, fan placement would matter since you'd want to put better performance fan to the spot that has more airflow restrictions to combat it.

Phanteks P350X looks nice if you're into solid front panel cases but i saw several issues with it from Dimitri's video review which to consider:
  • no reset button on front I/O (if your system hard freezes, how you're going to recover from it?)
  • only 2x USB ports at the front (all my PCs have 4x USB ports at the front)
  • very narrow cable routing behind MoBo tray (that can cause serious issues)
  • no cooling for HDDs whatsoever (making me ask, what stops HDDs from overheating?)
With iCUE 220T RGB, there are some serious clearance issues, especially when you use an AIO. Those are explained in this video review. Also, like the P350X, it too has only 2x USB ports at the front.
 

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
Thanks for clearing up the dual-build confusion with P600S.

As seen from images you provided, both build's CPUs would be very close to each other and finding suitable coolers without clearance issues is a nice headache.


To know how much i've spent on each and every component, here are pcpp pages to all 3x of my builds, where i've listed the actual component purchase price as well,
Skylake: https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/bd9J7P
Haswell: https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/RRvnTW
AMD: https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/2Y9J7P

Oh, i had my builds listed in pcpp long before CableMod created builds.gg site. Before builds.gg site, my signature linked to the pcpp links.

Estonia is nice place where to live and most people whom i've talked to here in TH's forums never heard about Estonia.
For your family friend, you can tell him/her the following line:"Tervitused Eestist!". (Translation:"Greetings from Estonia!") :giggle:

In my Skylake build, i have 4x 4GB (16GB) of RAM. When i 1st bought the initial components for my Skylake build, RAM was expensive and i didn't have enough funds to go with 2x 8GB off the bat. I bought additional RAM down the line and hence why i have 4x stick of RAM.
While some may argue that filling all 4x RAM slots put more work on MoBo's memory controller and while that may be true, using 4x sticks of RAM has faster RAM response time than using 2x sticks of RAM.
Example scenario: let's say CPU needs to access data at 2.3GB mark and 6.2GB mark, out of total of 16GB of RAM. With 2x 8GB stick configuration, CPU can do each task one at a time. 1st accessing the spot at 2.3GB and then at 6.2GB since both spots are inside single 8GB RAM stick. With 4x 4GB stick configuration, CPU can access both spots at the same time since 1st spot would be in 1st 4GB RAM stick and 2nd spot would be in 2nd 4GB RAM stick. Also, filling up all slots looks much nicer as well. So, there's some eyecandy as well.
With Haswell build, i have 2x 8GB (16GB) DDR3 RAM in there. Since DDR3 RAM is hard to find, especially as brand new and meeting my requirements, i went with 2x 8GB since i wasn't able to find 4x 4GB set as brand new.


The arrows under Trophy icons are for up- and downvote. As far as rearranging replies within topic goes, i'm not sure that even a mod can do that (that feature may not be present in this new forum format).

There are several guides on how to understand the new forum format. Read the Sticky topics in here, link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/forums/forum-feedback.64/
And here's forum main page, link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/


Corsair iCUE 220T RGB comes with 3x 120mm SP RGB Pro fans, not 3x 120mm LL RGB fans,
case specs: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Cases/Mid-Tower-ATX-Cases/iCUE-220T-RGB-Airflow-Tempered-Glass-Mid-Tower-Smart-Case/p/CC-9011173-WW
fan specs: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/RGB-&-LED-Fans/iCUE-SP-Series-RGB-PRO-Performance/p/CO-9050094-WW#tab-tech-specs

What does come with 3x 120mm LL RGB fans is Corsair i465X RGB,
specs: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Cases/Software-Control-and-Monitoring-Cases/iCUE-465X-RGB-Mid-Tower-ATX-Smart-Case/p/CC-9011188-WW
fan specs: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-config/p/CO-9050072-WW#tab-tech-specs

Since LL RGB, SP RGB Pro and ML Pro RGB fans have equally mediocre performance, it doesn't matter where you put them in your case. If you'd have high-performance fans (e.g like my ML Pro LED) to go alongside them, then yes, fan placement would matter since you'd want to put better performance fan to the spot that has more airflow restrictions to combat it.

Phanteks P350X looks nice if you're into solid front panel cases but i saw several issues with it from Dimitri's video review which to consider:
  • no reset button on front I/O (if your system hard freezes, how you're going to recover from it?)
  • only 2x USB ports at the front (all my PCs have 4x USB ports at the front)
  • very narrow cable routing behind MoBo tray (that can cause serious issues)
  • no cooling for HDDs whatsoever (making me ask, what stops HDDs from overheating?)
With iCUE 220T RGB, there are some serious clearance issues, especially when you use an AIO. Those are explained in this video review. Also, like the P350X, it too has only 2x USB ports at the front.
Her name is Sivi. I'll be sure to say that to her next time I see her! Hopefully I say it correctly and it doesn't translate to something else :p )

Yeah, you have some good money in all that equipment, and that doesn't include Corsair RGB keyboards, RGB headset stand(s), chairs, UPS's, etc.

Case

The concerns you mentioned (cable routing, HDD airflow and reset switch) were also my concerns. I wish the people reviewing would do an update video after using the case for a bit of time, to address concerns like airflow for HDD.

The number of USB ports in front is not really a concern for me. I can only recall a few times where I had two USB items plugged in, which one was charging my phone and the other was a thumb drive. Although I rarely charge my phone this way it's easily addressed by leaving the charging cable plugged in the rear, which ive already been considering so I could just have my wireless charging pad nearby.

I guess I wrote the wrong thing. I just checked my order and I do have ML Pro fans, here is what I have. So in the 220T example I'd be moving them to the front.

Memory

I was wanting 4 sticks of RAM (like you said, eye candy), but I was told what seems like the opposite of what you mention (unless they were talking about the controller like you said), but I remember it being something like 'it reads the memory faster only having two sticks to go through instead of four, including single vs dual sided.'

Although performance wise I probably won't notice a difference going to 32GB of RAM couldn't I add two more sticks as long as the timings matched (same brand/item)?

I bought the 3200 after reading the CPU max is 2933 (Ryzen 7 2700), and just looking at the Ryzen 7 2700x stats since I changed, the specs are the same- see here. I'm not sure what the potential/ability/max for overclocking is.

Here is exactly that I bought. I only bought it two weeks ago so I can change. I figured I'd try OC'ing the RAM, so what would I be best doing- staying with what I have, swapping for 3200 4x8GB, or going to either 3466 or 3600?

Here are the options and prices for each (like you, looks wise I prefer 4 sticks)-

3200 2x16GB (currently have)- $199
3200 4x8GB- $246
3466 2x16GB- $310
3466 4x8GB- $260
3600 4x8GB- $320

*I can't find 3600 2x16GB but 4x16GB is $620.

What would you do if it was your setup?

Systems

Since you have both Intel and AMD systems (have you used or owned a Ryzen system), I was wondering your opinion of Intel vs AMD (Ryzen).

Pros vs Cons?

Is one or does one do better (or excel) over the other for certain applications? Gaming, video editing/rendering, CAD.

*I considered putting this question under CPU's but I figured I would ask your specific input first since I know you have both. Plus, if someone reads this thread starting with the pre-build question there is wealth of knowledge in this one thread, and I thank you for that! :)

I'm asking because of the second, high performance/professional system I mentioned wanting to start getting parts for.

If you have a minute maybe list your ideal system.

Oh, I meant to ask earlier, what is your background with computers? Self-taught, schooling, professional, etc?
 

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
I'm wondering if I'm missing something- I'm looking to order CableMod PSU cables for my CX750m to the B450 Gaming Carbon Pro AC.

I know I need the following:
  • 24 pin cable
  • 8+4 pin CPU cable
  • 1 SATA cable (I'm only using one SATA to SSD/HDD but I'm going to order 2 or maybe 3 just in case I install a second hard drive and/or a fan controller)
  • 6 pin GPU cable (I believe it's 6 pin...I'll have to check, unless it's standard)
I feel like I'm missing something?

Is there any other accessories I should consider getting from them?
 
Last edited:

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
I guess I wrote the wrong thing. I just checked my order and I do have ML Pro fans, here is what I have. So in the 220T example I'd be moving them to the front.
Actually, what you have is ML Pro RGB (LED),
specs: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/RGB-&-LED-Fans/ml-pro-rgb-config/p/CO-9050076-WW

The original ML series fans are non-LED, specs: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/Magnetic-Levitation-Fans/ml-config/p/CO-9050039-WW
ML Pro (LED) fans (what i have) aren't RGB, specs: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050042-WW

Basically, what corsair did with ML Pro RGB (LED) fans, was adding some RGB LEDs to the fan central hub, while capping fan's max RPM, thus considerably reducing it's performance compared to the predecessor: ML Pro (LED).

I was wanting 4 sticks of RAM (like you said, eye candy), but I was told what seems like the opposite of what you mention (unless they were talking about the controller like you said), but I remember it being something like 'it reads the memory faster only having two sticks to go through instead of four, including single vs dual sided.'

Although performance wise I probably won't notice a difference going to 32GB of RAM couldn't I add two more sticks as long as the timings matched (same brand/item)?

I bought the 3200 after reading the CPU max is 2933 (Ryzen 7 2700), and just looking at the Ryzen 7 2700x stats since I changed, the specs are the same- see here. I'm not sure what the potential/ability/max for overclocking is.

Here is exactly that I bought. I only bought it two weeks ago so I can change. I figured I'd try OC'ing the RAM, so what would I be best doing- staying with what I have, swapping for 3200 4x8GB, or going to either 3466 or 3600?
When RAM DIMMs are made, they are tested with each other and those sticks that get along well are put into sets. First set to be made is the set of 8 RAM sticks and sold as 8x RAM sticks in a set. If the set of 8 doesn't work, it's divided into half which makes up two sets of 4. If the 4x RAM sticks do work together, the are sold as 4x RAM sticks in a set. But if the set of 4 doesn't work, it's again divided into half, making two sets of 2. Two RAM sticks that work well with each other are sold as 2x RAM sticks in a set. Those RAM sticks that doesn't want to work together at all are sold as single RAM sticks.

Due to that, you have a risk of getting two identical RAM sets working with each other. Even i had that risk when i bought my 2nd set of Kingston Savage RAM. But since i specifically looked for my MoBo memory QVL and pick the specific RAM that MSI has tested and confirmed that it works in all 4x slots, i had all the assurance i needed.

Here's further reading about mixing RAM and it's issues, link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq/troubleshooting-problems-with-pc-memory-ram-and-xmp-profile-configurations.3398926/

When it comes to the RAM speed, Ryzen chips by default support: 2133 / 2400 /2667 / 2933 Mhz speeds. Meaning that if you buy 3000 Mhz RAM, you can run it in 2933 Mhz. 3200 Mhz RAM does work in 3200 Mhz speeds though.
Also, it isn't worth the money to buy any faster RAM than 3000/3200 Mhz.
Reason why:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Yt4vSZKVk

What would you do if it was your setup?
When it comes down to the RAM selection and if it was my own build, i'd need to know few things beforehand:
  • is it gaming or production work PC
  • what kind of CPU cooler will be used
  • how big is the budget for RAM
For gaming PC, 16GB 3000 Mhz would be more than enough and maybe i'd go with RGB RAM. For production work PC, i'd go for 64GB 3000/3200 Mhz non-RGB RAM. And quite possibly with Registered, ECC RAM (to minimize errors produced by RAM).
CPU cooler defines the RAM stick height. E.g Arctic Freezer 34 eSports DUO doesn't overhang RAM slots and i can pick as tall RAM i'd want. However, if i'd go with one of the big boys (Dark Rock Pro 3 or 4, NH-D15 / NH-D15S) then those CPU coolers will overhang RAM slots and here, i'd look towards normal-profile RAM (max 35mm tall).

Since you have both Intel and AMD systems (have you used or owned a Ryzen system), I was wondering your opinion of Intel vs AMD (Ryzen).

Pros vs Cons?

Is one or does one do better (or excel) over the other for certain applications? Gaming, video editing/rendering, CAD.

*I considered putting this question under CPU's but I figured I would ask your specific input first since I know you have both. Plus, if someone reads this thread starting with the pre-build question there is wealth of knowledge in this one thread, and I thank you for that! :)

I'm asking because of the second, high performance/professional system I mentioned wanting to start getting parts for.
While i haven't had a Ryzen system (my AMD build is old Athlon II), i can tell the diff between Ryzen and Intel.

Intel CPUs excel in single- and quad-core performance. Meaning that for web browsing and gaming, they are the best. Ryzen CPUs have a lot more cores/threads and they excel in multi-core performance, making them better in production work PCs.

E.g R7 2700X vs i5-9600K comparison: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-2700X-vs-Intel-Core-i5-9600K/3958vs4031

If you have a minute maybe list your ideal system.

Oh, I meant to ask earlier, what is your background with computers? Self-taught, schooling, professional, etc?
My ideal system... well, that's a tough call. If given there's no budget, even then i can't tell right now since i'd have to research quite a bit. But for now, something like this,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/2JDNn7
For eyecandy, i'd also add NZXT Hue 2, NZXT Hue 2 Ambient and NZXT AER RGB 2 fans.
Or in other words, my ideal system would look essentially the same as my Skylake build but with upgraded components.

Some of my knowledge is from schooling, though, bulk of it is self-taught. I look myself as a PC enthusiast who has good knowledge in PC hardware and i also like helping others out. For more of my background, here's further reading,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/vintage-pc-technology-mega-discussion-thread.2817216/#post-17922353


Have you used Thermaltake fans? When I purchased the Corsair fans ir was between then and Thermaltake, like the Ring Trio.
Haven't used Tt fans so, can't tell how they look or perform. Though, my issue with all RGB fans (except few exceptions) is that most of them have nice looks but poor performance. To me, performance comes 1st and looks come 2nd.

A while back i composed a list of many RGB LED fans currently on the market, with specs comparison between the fans.
Specs:
Akasa Vegas AR7: http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Gaming&type_sub=RGB LED Fan&model=AK-FN099
Akasa Vegas R7: http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Gaming&type_sub=RGB LED Fan&model=AK-FN098
Akasa Vegas X7: http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Fans&type_sub=LED&model=AK-FN093
Cooler Master MasterFan Pro RGB: http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Lines/case-fan/
Corsair SP120 RGB: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/cooling/sp-series-fans
Corsair HD-series RGB: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/cooling/hd-series-fans
Corsair LL-series RGB: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-config/p/CO-9050071-WW
Corsair ML Pro RGB series: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/LED-Color/Fan-Size/Package-Quantity/ml-pro-rgb-config/p/CO-9050075-WW
EK-Vardar EVO 120ER RGB: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-vardar-evo-120er-rgb-500-2200-rpm
Lian-Li Bora Lite 120: http://www.lian-li.com/bora-lite-120
NZXT AER RGB: https://www.nzxt.com/products/aer-rgb
Thermaltake Riing 12: https://www.thermaltake.com/riing-12-led-rgb-fan-single-fan-pack.html
Thermaltake Riing 14: https://www.thermaltake.com/riing-14-led-rgb-colors-fan-single-fan-pack.html
Thermaltake Riing 12 TT Premium: https://www.thermaltake.com/riing-12-rgb-radiator-fan-tt-premium-edition.html
Thermaltake Riing 14 TT Premium: https://www.thermaltake.com/riing-14-rgb-radiator-fan-tt-premium-edition.html

120mm airflow:
77 CFM - EK-Vardar EVO 120ER RGB
54.4 CFM - Corsair HD120 RGB
52.44 CFM - NZXT AER120 RGB
52.0 CFM - Corsair SP120 RGB
48.8 CFM - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 120 Air Flow RGB
48.79 CFM - Thermaltake Riing 12 TT Premium
48.31 CFM - Lian-Li Bora Lite 120
47.3 CFM - Corsair ML120 Pro RGB
43.75 CFM - Corsair LL120 RGB
42.7 CFM - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 120 Air Balance RGB
41.9 CFM - Akasa Vegas X7
40.6 CFM - Thermaltake Riing 12
35.2 CFM - Akasa Vegas R7
35.2 CFM - Akasa Vegas AR7
35.0 CFM - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 120 Air Pressure RGB

120mm static pressure:
3.16 mmH2O - EK-Vardar EVO 120ER RGB
2.25 mmH2O - Corsair HD120 RGB
2.01 mmH2O - Thermaltake Riing 12
1.78 mmH2O - Corsair ML120 Pro RGB
1.61 mmH2O - Corsair LL120 RGB
1.45 mmH2O - Corsair SP120 RGB
1.45 mmH2O - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 120 Air Pressure RGB
1.35 mmH2O - NZXT AER120 RGB
1.23 mmH2O - Lian-Li Bora Lite 120
1.14 mmH2O - Akasa Vegas X7
1.11 mmH2O - Thermaltake Riing 12 TT Premium
1.04 mmH2O - Akasa Vegas R7
1.04 mmH2O - Akasa Vegas AR7
0.96 mmH2O - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 120 Air Balance RGB
0.88 mmH2O - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 120 Air Flow RGB

140mm airflow:
91.19 CFM - NZXT AER140 RGB
74.0 CFM - Corsair HD140 RGB
73.91 CFM - Thermaltake Riing 14 TT Premium
55.4 CFM - Corsair ML140 Pro RGB
53.0 CFM - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 140 Air Flow RGB
51.5 CFM - Corsair LL140 RGB
51.15 CFM - Thermaltake Riing 14
46.2 CFM - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 140 Air Pressure RGB

140mm static pressure:
1.85 mmH2O - Corsair HD140 RGB
1.78 mmH2O - Corsair ML140 Pro RGB
1.59 mmH2O - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 140 Air Pressure RGB
1.58 mmH2O - Thermaltake Riing 14
1.52 mmH2O - NZXT AER140 RGB
1.52 mmH2O - Corsair LL140 RGB
1.38 mmH2O - Thermaltake Riing 14 TT Premium
0.54 mmH2O - Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 140 Air Flow RGB
From this specs comparison, you should now know why i have NZXT AER140 RGB fans in use alongside my Corsair ML Pro LED fans.

I'm wondering if I'm missing something- I'm looking to order CableMod PSU cables for my CX750m to the B450 Gaming Carbon Pro AC.

I know I need the following:
  • 24 pin cable
  • 8+4 pin CPU cable
  • 1 SATA cable (I'm only using one SATA to SSD/HDD but I'm going to order 2 or maybe 3 just in case I install a second hard drive and/or a fan controller)
  • 6 pin GPU cable (I believe it's 6 pin...I'll have to check, unless it's standard)
I feel like I'm missing something?

Is there any other accessories I should consider getting from them?
I see that you have Corsair CXm series PSU that you plan to re-use. I wouldn't do that if i were you.
Reason why:

Older models of Corsair CX and CXm series (with green labels) were so bad units that they ended up as low quality units (on-par with current Corsair VS series). Corsair has since improved their CX and CXm line (with gray labels) and now, they are better but not enough to be considered as good quality PSU. All Seasonic units are either good quality or great quality (depending on the series).

I'll take Corsair CXm 550 as an example.
While CXm series are cheap, you won't get solid build quality and all Japanese caps as you can get with Seasonic units. Here's one in-depth review of CX550m,
link: https://www.hardwareinsights.com/corsair-cx550m-farewell-group-design/

Corsair CX550m does provide some good results but it also provides some bad results. Like hold-up time that is way lower than the ATX standard specifies it to be. CX550m has hold-up time of 11.20 milliseconds while the ATX standard for hold up time is a minimum of 16 milliseconds. For comparison, Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium (best 650W PSU money can buy at current date) has hold-up time of 30 milliseconds.

And it's just not the hold-up time, there are other, more apparent things that doesn't make it good quality unit. One of them is the very noisy sleeve bearing fan used in it. At minimum, you're looking 39 dB(A) from the fan, which can rise up to 43.1 dB(A). It's like having 140mm Noctua industrial 3000 RPM fan in your PC running at max speeds.

Since CX550m it has nice list of good things and also bad things, it's a mediocre quality unit. If there were more bad than good (including price) it would be a bad unit and vice-versa.

I, personally, wouldn't use it. While it can be used just fine for an office PC that never sees any high loads and also where the PSU noise isn't that important. But for home use in a gaming PC, where PC longevity and noise are important factors, i'd use and also suggest using better quality and more silent PSU.

Different persons have different standards (some have higher standards while others have lower standards) and it's up to every person to decide how good of a build quality components are safe to use in their PC. But keep in mind that PSU is the most important component inside the PC since it powers everything.

Since i care a lot about all my PCs, i won't put a mediocre quality unit into my PC that fails to meet ATX PSU standards set in place for all OEMs to follow, so that the PSUs are safe to use and doesn't damage other components. In fact, i've gone above and beyond regarding PSUs in my PCs. Some may call me nuts that i payed €206.80 for a PSU that sits in my Skylake build (Seasonic SSR-650TD) while i would've been safe with a PSU that costs €69.70 (Seasonic SS-520GM2). While that can be true and i could've saved a lot of money, i feel safe and comfortable that my main PC is powered by the best offered by Seasonic.
I won't suggest expensive PSUs in builds when the budget is way restricted. But i still suggest getting a PSU that at least meets all the ATX PSU standards, even if it's older design and fully wired (like Seasonic SS-520GB).

For your PC, any Seasonic unit in 600W range will do just fine, e.g: Focus 650 (80+ Gold), Focus+ 650 (80+ Gold), PRIME Ultra 650 (80+ Platinum) or PRIME Ultra 650 (80+ Titanium),
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/WrNypg,qn7v6h,7fndnQ,fnjJ7P/

Warranty wise:
Focus: 7 years
Focus+: 10 years
PRIME: 12 years (includes all PRIME models: regular, Fanless, AirTouch, SnowSilent, Ultra)

All 3 of my PCs: Skylake, Haswell and AMD are also powered by Seasonic.

Oh, all fully-modular Seasonic PSUs are also compatible with CableMod SE-series custom sleeved power cables.
Like you've already seen from my builds, i too have CableMod SE-series power cables in use to match my 3x PCs build themes,
cablemod: https://cablemod.com/products/?filter_series=se-series&show_products=48

For your CXm PSU, you'd need to look towards CableMod C-series AXi / HXi / RM (Yellow label) power cables,
link: https://cablemod.com/products/?filter_series=c-series&show_products=100
 

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
I've had a lot going on, including later today, so I'm still going through everything you wrote.

But on the RAM issue- sticking with the same RAM, Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 3200... (I'll get the 64BG, non-RGB RAM for the second non-RGB, 'high performance' system I'm looking to put together).

Knowing I'm using the system for browsing, video streaming, editing/rendering and minimal CAD/3D printing.

Putting aesthetics aside, which I thought about it and 2 sticks of the RAM I currently have would look OK because the RGB is visible from the side, so the space between sticks would allow it to show. At the same time having 4 sticks always looks nice.

You mentioned 2 sticks being better controller wise and 4 sticks are better for response time (which already explained...at the same time you added 2 to what you already had). From what you mentioned or what would you do if you were me, do you think it's better performance wise if I stick with the 2x16GB or for $46 extra is 4x8GB a better option?

Oh, that sucks hearing that about the Corsair CX750M PSU. I was thinking I bought it a year ago but it was actually December 2017 when I purchased it.

I am looking at Seasonic PSU's, which I found out I at least need a 750W which is OK because I'm still looking to add an SSD and possibly HDD as well as a Quadro P4000/5000 or an RTX 2060/70/80 Super) because the mobo has two 4 pn connectors, which any Seasonic (maybe others) below 750W doesn't have. I'll just use the Corsair PSU to put my original system back together. It has to be better than the factory 350W PSU, which I believe was bad anyway. :)
 
Last edited:

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
I wanted to say thanks again for all the information...I greatly appreciate your time, efforts and input!

I'm actually going through copying posts and links to organize everything so I can review what you wrote a few times and also do the same with the links/sources.

Next time I see my friend and say Tervitused Eestist I'll let you know her response, which I'll probably screw both up and have to show her the written words as well as have her write down her response! :p
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
You mentioned 2 sticks being better controller wise and 4 sticks are better for response time (which already explained...at the same time you added 2 to what you already had). From what you mentioned or what would you do if you were me, do you think it's better performance wise if I stick with the 2x16GB or for $46 extra is 4x8GB a better option?
32GB of RAM is a bit on the odd side since it's more than enough for gaming but can be a bit less for rendering.
Reason why i put 32GB into my ideal build was to balance the RAM amount between gaming and rendering. Personally, with my own PC, i favor the:"Jack of all trades but master of none." approach. E.g i have VA panel monitor in use, which is between the TN panel (great performance) and IPS panel (great color accuracy). I also have 3x RGB fans with 6x single LED fans. Again, i don't have full RGB fan setup nor full single LED fan setup, but the mix of two.

With my Skylake build and 4x 4GB of RAM, when i 1st built the PC, i knew for a fact that i won't need more than 16GB of RAM. That enabled me to go with the route of 2x 4GB 1st and 2x 4GB afterwards.
If you know for a fact that you don't need more than 32GB of RAM, you can go with 4x 8GB for better RAM response time and nicer eyecandy. However, for a rendering PC, i'd look towards 64GB or even 128GB if the render task is on bigger scale. Here, if budget allows, i'd go with 4x 16GB set. With smaller budget, i'd go 2x 16GB now and upgrade RAM to 64GB with 2nd 2x 16GB set later on. Still giving the end result a nice appearance with 4x RAM sticks.

Oh, that sucks hearing that about the Corsair CX750M PSU. I was thinking I bought it a year ago but it was actually December 2017 when I purchased it.

I am looking at Seasonic PSU's, which I found out I at least need a 750W which is OK because I'm still looking to add an SSD and possibly HDD as well as a Quadro P4000/5000 or an RTX 2060/70/80 Super) because the mobo has two 4 pn connectors, which any Seasonic (maybe others) below 750W doesn't have. I'll just use the Corsair PSU to put my original system back together. It has to be better than the factory 350W PSU, which I believe was bad anyway. :)
If you plan to run Quadro P4000 / P5000 alongside RTX GPU then look towards 850W unit. For single GPU, 650W unit is more than enough.

Small calculation: Quadro P5000 is 180W GPU. RTX 2080 Super is 250W GPU. The rest of the system is about 200W. If you OC CPU and/or GPU, about additional 150W can come from OC.

Dual GPU build: 180W (Quadro) + 250W (RTX) + 200W (system) + 150W (OC) = 780W - making 850W PSU enough. Next step up from that would be 1kW unit (1000W).
or
Single GPU build: 250W (RTX) + 200W (system) + 150W (OC) = 600W - making 650W PSU enough. But you can go with 750W unit for more assurance.

Without OC or when using only Quadro, wattage numbers will be even lower, making 650W unit more than enough.

For PSU models, aim towards Seasonic PRIME series (flagship line of Seasonic with 12 years of warranty) or if money is tight, cheaper but still good Focus or Focus+ series will do fine as well. Or when OneSeasonic Initiative has taken place (with renamed model names), then look towards PRIME GX-750, PX-750, TX-750 or cheaper FOCUS GX-750, PX-750 units.

Next time I see my friend and say Tervitused Eestist I'll let you know her response, which I'll probably screw both up and have to show her the written words as well as have her write down her response! :p
Advice: don't try to pronounce that Estonian phrase since Estonian pronunciation is completely different that it is in English language. Well, you can try but you'd probably fail miserably. ;)

E.g small example: in English, if you wrote "cat", you spell it as "kät" but if i wrote the "cat" and spell it in Estonian, it will be "tsat".
2nd example as well: "Aeacus" spelled in English is "Eakus" but spelled in Estonian is "Aeatsus".

Speaking of your friend, is her name really "SIVI" or is it "SILVI"? Since latter is common female name in Estonia while former is not. Former sounds like a nickname from first name.
 

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
32GB of RAM is a bit on the odd side since it's more than enough for gaming but can be a bit less for rendering.
Reason why i put 32GB into my ideal build was to balance the RAM amount between gaming and rendering. Personally, with my own PC, i favor the:"Jack of all trades but master of none." approach. E.g i have VA panel monitor in use, which is between the TN panel (great performance) and IPS panel (great color accuracy). I also have 3x RGB fans with 6x single LED fans. Again, i don't have full RGB fan setup nor full single LED fan setup, but the mix of two.

With my Skylake build and 4x 4GB of RAM, when i 1st built the PC, i knew for a fact that i won't need more than 16GB of RAM. That enabled me to go with the route of 2x 4GB 1st and 2x 4GB afterwards.
If you know for a fact that you don't need more than 32GB of RAM, you can go with 4x 8GB for better RAM response time and nicer eyecandy. However, for a rendering PC, i'd look towards 64GB or even 128GB if the render task is on bigger scale. Here, if budget allows, i'd go with 4x 16GB set. With smaller budget, i'd go 2x 16GB now and upgrade RAM to 64GB with 2nd 2x 16GB set later on. Still giving the end result a nice appearance with 4x RAM sticks.


If you plan to run Quadro P4000 / P5000 alongside RTX GPU then look towards 850W unit. For single GPU, 650W unit is more than enough.

Small calculation: Quadro P5000 is 180W GPU. RTX 2080 Super is 250W GPU. The rest of the system is about 200W. If you OC CPU and/or GPU, about additional 150W can come from OC.

Dual GPU build: 180W (Quadro) + 250W (RTX) + 200W (system) + 150W (OC) = 780W - making 850W PSU enough. Next step up from that would be 1kW unit (1000W).
or
Single GPU build: 250W (RTX) + 200W (system) + 150W (OC) = 600W - making 650W PSU enough. But you can go with 750W unit for more assurance.

Without OC or when using only Quadro, wattage numbers will be even lower, making 650W unit more than enough.

For PSU models, aim towards Seasonic PRIME series (flagship line of Seasonic with 12 years of warranty) or if money is tight, cheaper but still good Focus or Focus+ series will do fine as well. Or when OneSeasonic Initiative has taken place (with renamed model names), then look towards PRIME GX-750, PX-750, TX-750 or cheaper FOCUS GX-750, PX-750 units.


Advice: don't try to pronounce that Estonian phrase since Estonian pronunciation is completely different that it is in English language. Well, you can try but you'd probably fail miserably. ;)

E.g small example: in English, if you wrote "cat", you spell it as "kät" but if i wrote the "cat" and spell it in Estonian, it will be "tsat".
2nd example as well: "Aeacus" spelled in English is "Eakus" but spelled in Estonian is "Aeatsus".

Speaking of your friend, is her name really "SIVI" or is it "SILVI"? Since latter is common female name in Estonia while former is not. Former sounds like a nickname from first name.
I figured I'd use the 2×16GB sticks I have here, see how it performs then decide what to go with.

I'm planning on going with either a Quadro or an RTX GPU. I added the Seasonic 650W PSU, mobo, etc to PCPartPicker and it gives the 'compatibility issue' saying the mobo has 2-4 pin connectors, which the 650W PSU doesn't have, and that I would need to go with 750W or greater model.

I see what you are saying about pronunciation. Haha. I've always seen her name spelled Sivi, but not directly from her so likely it was misspelled. I'll ask her when I see her.

I'm getting ready to install PC parts in my old case. I want to make sure nothing is DOA but also my computer crashed yesterday (wired Network stopped working so I reset it andit crashed) and today (which today was after MalwareBytes questioned and removed two files tagged as malware). I logged on to follow your breadboard details. I'll let you know how it goes.

Hope you're having a great weekend! :)
 

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
5. As soon as your open MoBo's retail box, dig out the holy bible of PCs (aka MoBo manual) and give it a good read. It has a lot of answers in it that you can have during PC assemble. Also, it has a nice guide for PC components assembly.
I meant to mention in a previous post, there was no manual with the mobo. All that was included is a Quick Install Guide. It makes me question was this mobo one somebody bought and just returned to go with a different option or was there issues that had to be fixed.
 

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
Question- the mobo has an 8 pin and 4 pin for CPU power. The old mobo has only a 4 pin, but with the Corsair CX750M I'm using the 4+4pin cable (only 4 pin that was included). The only cable I have... included with PSU... is a 6+2 cable marked PCIe and on the PSU

I only see one spot on PSU for CPU power. Can the 6+2 PCIe be used for the 8 pin cpu power?
 

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
Ok figured that out, just the 8 pin has to be connected. Geez, it was driving me crazy thinking I wasn't going to be able to do it without a new PSU, which I'm looking for anyway but wanted to test the parts.
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Question- the mobo has an 8 pin and 4 pin for CPU power. The old mobo has only a 4 pin, but with the Corsair CX750M I'm using the 4+4pin cable (only 4 pin that was included). The only cable I have... included with PSU... is a 6+2 cable marked PCIe and on the PSU

I only see one spot on PSU for CPU power. Can the 6+2 PCIe be used for the 8 pin cpu power?
8-pin EPS12V is needed to power CPU. The additional 4-pin EPS12V connector on MoBo is optional. It's useful for power stabilization during high-level CPU OC.

6/8-pin PCI-E male connector is keyed differently and it doesn't fit into 4/8-pin EPS12V female connector slot. However, if you press hard enough, it will go in there. Though, since PCI-E power cables are pinned differently than EPS12V cables, using it in EPS12V connector slot will fry your MoBo instantly.
 

TimH77

Commendable
Jul 21, 2017
114
4
1,595
1
8-pin EPS12V is needed to power CPU. The additional 4-pin EPS12V connector on MoBo is optional. It's useful for power stabilization during high-level CPU OC.

6/8-pin PCI-E male connector is keyed differently and it doesn't fit into 4/8-pin EPS12V female connector slot. However, if you press hard enough, it will go in there. Though, since PCI-E power cables are pinned differently than EPS12V cables, using it in EPS12V connector slot will fry your MoBo instantly.
Yeah I kind of figured there was an issue pluging that cable into the CPU power.

I have the breadboard set up, just double checking connections and came here to read your original post to make sure I'm not missing anything.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts