Build Advice Upgrade setup for heavy graphic games ?

[Nefertem]

Hello there,

as the release of City skylines 2, I've heard some worrying things regarding performance, and overall requirements. this isn't just for this specific game either, as I've also noticed my PC struggling to perform on games that came years ago, like most total war games (with heavy modding). I've looked online to better make a decision, but there's just so many options of Graphic cards, GPU,CPU, RAM.. that I feel a bit overwhelmed. So here goes:

I built my computer a couple of years ago, not knowing anything about Hardware I asked for some help here, got amazing recommendations and guide to help me build my first tower. and now, I want to upgrade my setup, but I don't know where to begin, should i Replace all the main parts? or should I only upgrade my graphics card and my CPU? would adding additional RAM make a difference?

Here is my current setup:
MOTHERBOARD:Z370 TOMAHAWK (MS-7B47)

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8600K CPU @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz

CPU COOLER:Noctua NH-U12S - 120mm

RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB - PC4-24000 - DIMM (2x8GB)

GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 Ti Windforce - 8 GB

SSD: WD_BLACK 2TB SN850X.

SATA: Samsung 860 EVO M.2 - 250 GB / Western Digital Blue - 1TB - Desktop ( i don't know which is suppose to be here)


Approximate Purchase Date: this week (the closer the better)

Budget Range: 1 to 1,5k euros, depending on how many parts I'll need to upgrade

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming, Youtube.

Are you buying a monitor: No

Parts to Upgrade: Not sure

Do you need to buy OS: No


Preferred Website(s) for Parts: anything you'd recommend in the EU, my previus purchase was on https://www.paradigit.nl/ , as they had a lot f options

Location: Netherlands

Parts Preferences: none

Overclocking: Maybe

SLI or Crossfire: No clue

Your Monitor Resolution: 1920 x 1080

Additional Comments: My hardware is getting old and I'm anticipating new games will be more demanding (most already are)

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: low FPS in game, having to sacrifice graphics quality for perf.

 

[Colif]

Cities Skylines 2 appears to be built for PC that don't exist yet. Until its optimised, nothing can run this at 4k Ultra. 1080p seems to be about average. And not high settings either.

So building a PC around it would be expensive.

I am sure someone will be able to help find a build for you

 

[Nefertem]

Cities Skylines 2 appears to be built for PC that don't exist yet. Until its optimised, nothing can run this at 4k Ultra. 1080p seems to be about average. And not high settings either.

So building a PC around it would be expensive.

I am sure someone will be able to help find a build for you

I don't understand some parts of the video, but i get the big picture. going for the recommended Intel® Core™ i5-12600K, AMD® Ryzen™ 7 5800 ,Nvidia® GeForce™ RTX 3080 (10 GB) or AMD® Radeon™ RX 6800 XT (16 GB) would add up to around 1000e, which is costly but goes in my price range. but before I do so I need to see if this is also optimal for battle simulation games (talking about the Total war games), and if any of these parts are compatible with my motherboard etc..

and to be honest, the more I look into graphic cards to compare, the less I understand the differences, why there are so many options, and if so then which is more adapted to my gaming selection. Who knew, more isn't always better :') anyways, I'll see what other people might suggest! thanks a lot for your help

 

[Colif]

Most of the CPU mentioned in the video aren't current generation, so I would guess the builds offered will be newer. Same applies for the GPU really.

Also, really good chance performance of game will improve in next few months so those cards should be able to provide more.

Are you going to keep using 1080p as that would assist in what GPU to offer.

CS2 is GPU heavy, I would have to guess Total war games are more CPU heavy given how many units in play. So you need a good CPU & GPU

why there are so many options,

what do you mean?

 

[Nefertem]

Most of the CPU mentioned in the video aren't current generation, so I would guess the builds offered will be newer. Same applies for the GPU really.

Also, really good chance performance of game will improve in next few months so those cards should be able to provide more.

Are you going to keep using 1080p as that would assist in what GPU to offer.

CS2 is GPU heavy, I would have to guess Total war games are more CPU heavy given how many units in play. So you need a good CPU & GPU


what do you mean?

Correct, I was assuming both CPU and GPU upgrades would be necessary.
For my monitor, I'm open to upgrade it (had a rough year i deserve it)

what I mean is I find so many variations of graphics cards, within or between brands and my limited knowledge in hardware makes it hard to understand the differences.

 

[Order 66]

Most of the CPU mentioned in the video aren't current generation, so I would guess the builds offered will be newer. Same applies for the GPU really.

Also, really good chance performance of game will improve in next few months so those cards should be able to provide more.

Are you going to keep using 1080p as that would assist in what GPU to offer.

CS2 is GPU heavy, I would have to guess Total war games are more CPU heavy given how many units in play. So you need a good CPU & GPU


what do you mean?

I think it is both terrifying and hilarious that a 4090 can’t run it well at 1440p ultra. I think I am screwed with my RX 6800 even at 1080p when the 6800 should be able to do 1440p in most games.

 

[Colif]

what I mean is I find so many variations of graphics cards, within or between brands and my limited knowledge in hardware makes it hard to understand the differences.

I won't even try to explain what each of the cards in both Nvidia and AMD families are best for which situation, as I would probably get it wrong.

For CS2:
With Nvidia, I would look at anything over and including a 4080 (if only for more vram and up to date features)
With AMD, I would look at a 6800xt or higher. 7800 xt will have newer features. They will all have 16gb or more vram. I have to assume the performance problems in them will be fixed with game and driver updates.
Intel? their GPU aren't very strong yet,

CPU
Intel: probably want a 14600k (12600k is recommended CPU but its 2 generations old... sort of. 14 series isn't much better than 13)
AMD 7800x3d (best gaming CPU right now).

really need more testing on the game with more hardware to be sure.

 

[Nefertem]

I think it is both terrifying and hilarious that a 4090 can’t run it well at 1440p ultra. I think I am screwed with my RX 6800 even at 1080p when the 6800 should be able to do 1440p in most games.

was considering the RX 6800 but... spoke to a friend of mine and his sister says that all I need is extra RAM. but she plays Counter strike so I'm not sure i should trust her...

 

[Nefertem]

For CS2:
With Nvidia, I would look at anything over and including a 4080 (if only for more vram and up to date features)
With AMD, I would look at a 6800xt or higher. 7800 xt will have newer features. They will all have 16gb or more vram. I have to assume the performance problems in them will be fixed with game and driver updates.
Intel? their GPU aren't very strong yet,

RTX 4080 16GB, the average price is 1250 euros, whereas the 7800 xt is under 600 euros, is there a specific reason behind it? or is it due to the performance problems you mentioned? if not, then I will opt for AMD both in Graphics card and CPU, but will both be compatible with my Motherboard and other components?

 

[Colif]

NO, you need a brand new motherboard to use either CPU, as well as ram, as they both use DDR 5 ram now. essentially a new PC.

That is why I said someone would suggest a build. All I have done is suggest parts but you need everything else as well.

You didn't mention Power Supply. That would restrict what GPU you can use as well.

4080 are better at ray tracing but if you don't care so much about that, the AMD GPU are pretty good(I could be biased, I have a 7900xt).

 

[Nefertem]

NO, you need a brand new motherboard to use either CPU, as well as ram, as they both use DDR 5 ram now. essentially a new PC.

That is why I said someone would suggest a build. All I have done is suggest parts but you need everything else as well.

You didn't mention Power Supply. That would restrict what GPU you can use as well.

4080 are better at ray tracing but if you don't care so much about that, the AMD GPU are pretty good(I could be biased, I have a 7900xt).

Lord have mercy thanks for the tips and suggestions, in this case I will try to look up some compatibility options until someone can jump in and suggest a build, as I want to avoid having to replace every component I have

 

[geofelt]

What kinds of games do you play?
Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer tends to like many threads
You have no worthwhile cpu upgrades with your current motherboard.
But, you have some nice parts that can be reused.

My suggestion would be to upgrade in 2 or 3 steps.
Step 1 starts with the cpu. Keep your psu and 1070ti.
Run the cpu-Z bench on your 8600K.
You should get a score of about 653:

CPU-Z Benchmark for Intel Core i5-8600K (1T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

Best CPU performance - 64-bit - September 2024

valid.x86.fr

I think your budget would allow a i5-14600K.
Most 760 ddr4 based motherboards will work.
Your NH-U12s cooler is ok, but not the best.

INTEL Core i5-14600K | CPU Compatibility | Noctua Compatibility Centre

Series: Raptor Lake-S, Socket: LGA 1700

ncc.noctua.at

See how you do.

step2 is to upgrade your monitor.
I would look for larger/wider ips monitors.
Plan on keeping your old monitor as a side monitor.
I suggest monitor first because that clarifies the requirement for graphics cards.

Step3 is to upgrade the graphics card.
Tom's has a nice gpu hierarchy chart:

GPU Benchmarks and Hierarchy 2023: Graphics Cards Ranked

We've run hundreds of GPU benchmarks on Nvidia, AMD, and Intel graphics cards and ranked them in our comprehensive hierarchy.

www.tomshardware.com

Plan on a significant boost or you may be disappointed.
Say to 4060 class card or better.

That may require a psu upgrade.

What is the make/model of your case and psu?
Likely, they can be reused also.
If you are not multitasking while gaming, your 16gb of ram can be reused.
Intel does not depend on fast ram for performance.
You can defer any ram decisions for later.
LGA1700 motherboards support DDR4 ram and performance is similar to DDR5.
Noctua will send you a lga1700 mounting kit for free for your NH-U12s.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

there are 2 options, reuse DDR4 rams can you can get B760 mobo and 14700 or 14600. but you cannot upgrade to next gen CPUs. so for about 70 euro savings, you would be investing in a dead platform that might give you satisfactory performance for 3 to 4 years.

the other option is to get AM5. with upgrade options even 3 years down the line. So your mobo and CPU combo will last you atleast 8 years.

You can definitely reuse the U12S

CPU - 7800X3D - 399 - https://www.alternate.nl/AMD/Ryzen-...M5-processor/html/product/1898270?sug=7800X3D

Mobo - MSI Tomahawk B650 - 225 - https://www.paradigit.nl/msi-mag-b650-tomahawk-wifi/21244619/product

RAM - 32GB 6000mhz CL30 - 116 - https://www.alternate.nl/G-Skill/32-GB-DDR5-6000-Kit-werkgeheugen/html/product/1839808

GPU - 7800 XT - 570 - https://www.alternate.nl/ASRock/Rad...6GB-OC-grafische-kaart/html/product/100016578

If you PSU is not a tier A model:

PSU Tier List rev. 17.0g - Cultists Network

PSU Tier List will help you to choose the best PSU out of hundreds of models on the market. From budget to the highest end Power Supplies.

cultists.network

PSU - MSI A850L - 127 - https://www.alternate.nl/MSI/MAG-A850GL-850-Watt-voeding/html/product/1921302

Including PSU - 1438 euros

 

[Nefertem]

What kinds of games do you play?
Some games are graphics limited like fast action shooters.
Others are cpu core speed limited like strategy, sims, and mmo.
Multiplayer tends to like many threads
You have no worthwhile cpu upgrades with your current motherboard.
But, you have some nice parts that can be reused.

My suggestion would be to upgrade in 2 or 3 steps.
Step 1 starts with the cpu. Keep your psu and 1070ti.
Run the cpu-Z bench on your 8600K.
You should get a score of about 653:

CPU-Z Benchmark for Intel Core i5-8600K (1T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

Best CPU performance - 64-bit - September 2024

valid.x86.fr

I think your budget would allow a i5-14600K.
Most 760 ddr4 based motherboards will work.
Your NH-U12s cooler is ok, but not the best.

INTEL Core i5-14600K | CPU Compatibility | Noctua Compatibility Centre

Series: Raptor Lake-S, Socket: LGA 1700

ncc.noctua.at

See how you do.

step2 is to upgrade your monitor.
I would look for larger/wider ips monitors.
Plan on keeping your old monitor as a side monitor.
I suggest monitor first because that clarifies the requirement for graphics cards.

Step3 is to upgrade the graphics card.
Tom's has a nice gpu hierarchy chart:

GPU Benchmarks and Hierarchy 2023: Graphics Cards Ranked

We've run hundreds of GPU benchmarks on Nvidia, AMD, and Intel graphics cards and ranked them in our comprehensive hierarchy.

www.tomshardware.com

Plan on a significant boost or you may be disappointed.
Say to 4060 class card or better.

That may require a psu upgrade.

What is the make/model of your case and psu?
Likely, they can be reused also.
If you are not multitasking while gaming, your 16gb of ram can be reused.
Intel does not depend on fast ram for performance.
You can defer any ram decisions for later.
LGA1700 motherboards support DDR4 ram and performance is similar to DDR5.
Noctua will send you a lga1700 mounting kit for free for your NH-U12s.

80% of my gameplay is on Total war games, from old ones ( with heavy mods ) to newer ones, and the rest is City skylines, will probably spend more time on it if my PC allows it. I will check out the CPU bench and GPu chart when I get home this afternoon.

but I have some update regarding my FPS issues i encountered yesterday:
I was playing Total war Attila with mods, and during a battle The fps dropped so low It was unplayable, so i tried many things like clean install of graphic card, updating bios and all components and nothing worked, but turns out my FPS never dropped under 55, yet game is unplayable bevause of stuttering and low frame rate. by the time I found out the FPS was above normal it got late so I didn't have more time to look into it, could it be an issue with my Monitor?

 

[Nefertem]

there are 2 options, reuse DDR4 rams can you can get B760 mobo and 14700 or 14600. but you cannot upgrade to next gen CPUs. so for about 70 euro savings, you would be investing in a dead platform that might give you satisfactory performance for 3 to 4 years.

the other option is to get AM5. with upgrade options even 3 years down the line. So your mobo and CPU combo will last you atleast 8 years.

You can definitely reuse the U12S

CPU - 7800X3D - 399 - https://www.alternate.nl/AMD/Ryzen-...M5-processor/html/product/1898270?sug=7800X3D

Mobo - MSI Tomahawk B650 - 225 - https://www.paradigit.nl/msi-mag-b650-tomahawk-wifi/21244619/product

RAM - 32GB 6000mhz CL30 - 116 - https://www.alternate.nl/G-Skill/32-GB-DDR5-6000-Kit-werkgeheugen/html/product/1839808

GPU - 7800 XT - 570 - https://www.alternate.nl/ASRock/Rad...6GB-OC-grafische-kaart/html/product/100016578

If you PSU is not a tier A model:

PSU Tier List rev. 17.0g - Cultists Network

PSU Tier List will help you to choose the best PSU out of hundreds of models on the market. From budget to the highest end Power Supplies.

cultists.network

PSU - MSI A850L - 127 - https://www.alternate.nl/MSI/MAG-A850GL-850-Watt-voeding/html/product/1921302

Including PSU - 1438 euros

Thanks for the detailed list. I like the longevity approach. at the moment I'm facing some technical issues, which is what led me to think I might need an upgrade, but I found out that my FPS was more than fine, I am yet to find out what is causing my game to have such low frame rate ( I'm not sure how to call it since the FPS is not the cause) .this tells me two things:

after finding the cause It'll tell me which parts need replacing (if needed) or if it simply the monitor causing this ( last thread i found yesterday led me to think it might be a monitor issue, but I need to dig more). Depending on the outcome this probably gives me another year or two with my current setup, but again this will depend on what solution I find to my current issue.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

80% of my gameplay is on Total war games, from old ones ( with heavy mods ) to newer ones, and the rest is City skylines, will probably spend more time on it if my PC allows it. I will check out the CPU bench and GPu chart when I get home this afternoon.

but I have some update regarding my FPS issues i encountered yesterday:
I was playing Total war Attila with mods, and during a battle The fps dropped so low It was unplayable, so i tried many things like clean install of graphic card, updating bios and all components and nothing worked, but turns out my FPS never dropped under 55, yet game is unplayable bevause of stuttering and low frame rate. by the time I found out the FPS was above normal it got late so I didn't have more time to look into it, could it be an issue with my Monitor?

Total war games are notorious for CPU usage. I remember playing Three kingdoms on my previous gaming laptop which had an i5 8600H CPU. the game without any mods stutters in war scenes when you have more than 500 units in the field (mid to later stages of the games, you army alone might have 150 to 200 units ez)

So with that said, a modded Total war battle scene stuttering is nothing new. Check for youtube game benchmarks with similar battle scenes and 400 to 500 units in the field before you look for any part upgrades.

 

[Nefertem]

Total war games are notorious for CPU usage. I remember playing Three kingdoms on my previous gaming laptop which had an i5 8600H CPU. the game without any mods stutters in war scenes when you have more than 500 units in the field (mid to later stages of the games, you army alone might have 150 to 200 units ez)

So with that said, a modded Total war battle scene stuttering is nothing new. Check for youtube game benchmarks with similar battle scenes and 400 to 500 units in the field before you look for any part upgrades.

I'll send you a screenshot when I get home of my CPU/GPU/Memory usage (through Task manager)during the said battle that stutters like hell, none of the components seem to be under any sort of pressure so I'm really clueless.

 

[Nefertem]

Total war games are notorious for CPU usage. I remember playing Three kingdoms on my previous gaming laptop which had an i5 8600H CPU. the game without any mods stutters in war scenes when you have more than 500 units in the field (mid to later stages of the games, you army alone might have 150 to 200 units ez)

So with that said, a modded Total war battle scene stuttering is nothing new. Check for youtube game benchmarks with similar battle scenes and 400 to 500 units in the field before you look for any part upgrades.

https://imgur.com/LG4IJOD

View: https://imgur.com/LG4IJOD

the CPU spike is when I alt tab. but that being said, CPU usage is a bit high. but nevertheless, it doesn't look out of control, yet it is totally unplayable. is the CPU the only cause? could it be a bottleneck somewhere? I ve played hundreds of hours with way more units, this is an early game battle so I’m really curious to know whats causing it.

the other option is to get AM5. with upgrade options even 3 years down the line.

curious as what you mean by that, what upgrades specifically?

 

[Lucky_SLS]

The B650 board like the MSI tomahawk i linked above is an excellent mobo.

The AM5 platform and the B650 will definitely support the next gen Ryzen (9000 series) and even the 11000 series maybe. So you can upgrade the CPU 4 to 5 years down the line and make the system last 8 to 10 years with the new CPU.

For reference

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?680137-TWC-Total-War-Attila-benchmark-thread-last-update-26-December-2016/page16