Question Upgrade to Ryzen 7 5800x or Ryzen 7 5800x3D

[Daniel Youssef]

Hello, I recently upgraded my GPU to 3060 TI and I believe my CPU is not the strongest currently as I had problems with games such as Warzone where another had an older version of AMD and still got much better frames, so I was thinking about an upgrade. What would you think is best for my upgrade 5800X or 5800X3D ? is it worth to go the extra mile for the 3D version or is it simply not worth the extra dollar for the value it provides?

my current specs:

MB - b360 gaming 3 aorus wifi
CPU - i7-8700 3.2ghz
RAM - 1x16 (crucial 3200 mhz , although running on 2666 for the CPU)
GPU - MSI Gaming X trio 3060 Ti
PSU - 750W Cooler Master (not sure about the purchase date or the rank)
Cooler - Thermaltake Water 3.0 Performer C 120mm AIO Liquid Cooling System

Any thoughts?

 

[ohio_buckeye]

I have the 5900x but from what I’ve seen it looks like the x3d hold up in some games to the new processors released today. That said if you are going that route you’d need a new board and ryzen likes fast dual channel ram so you’d be looking at that plus the 5800x3d is kind of expensive.

Your better bet may be to look at the amd zen 4 processors released today since you basically are looking at a new platform anyway. On the power supply you definitely want to check that to see if it’s capable of powering your rig effectively.

 

[tennis2]

RAM - 1x16 (crucial 3200 mhz , although running on 2666 for the CPU)

I'd start the troubleshooting process by experimenting with dual channel ram first. It's certainly cheaper than a CPU+mobo+RAM swap. Especially since you'd be wanting a dual channel kit of DDR4 RAM in a 5800/5800X3D system anyway.

CPU is not the strongest currently as I had problems with games such as Warzone where another had an older version of AMD and still got much better frames

This comparison mindset is a common pitfall amongst forum threads where the OP thinks they're looking at an apples-to-apples comparision, but minor/overlooked hardware/settings differences can produce significantly different FPS results. More than likely we can legitimately explain why some random youtube video is producing different results than you.

 

[tennis2]

Your better bet may be to look at the amd zen 4 processors released today since you basically are looking at a new platform anyway. On the power supply you definitely want to check that to see if it’s capable of powering your rig effectively.

My takeaway from the Ryzen 7000 launch and Raptor Lake tease is that AMD is going to need to significantly adjust pricing on Ryzen 7000 and introduce 3DVcache SKUs of Ryzen 7000 to maintain competitiveness. AMD decided to >>> power draw to play Intel's game, but Intel is seemingly adding more power draw, AND more cores. AMD's chart-topping Ryzen 7000 spots may be short lived until they launch SKUs with 3DVcache. Not to mention that DDR5 and mobo pricing is still pretty high that it makes the Ryzen 7600X a non-starter on the value proposition. Even the 7700X + platform would be a tough sell.

I'm also less than impressed at the core race these days. Intel/AMD folding their pro-sumer CPUs into their "mainstream" lineups has really muddied the waters on what most people need. Pair that with the >>> power draw of these high core count CPUs that mobo manufacturers need to build for and it inflates mobo costs past what most customers need.

 

[Daniel Youssef]

I'd start the troubleshooting process by experimenting with dual channel ram first. It's certainly cheaper than a CPU+mobo+RAM swap. Especially since you'd be wanting a dual channel kit of DDR4 RAM in a 5800/5800X3D system anyway.


This comparison mindset is a common pitfall amongst forum threads where the OP thinks they're looking at an apples-to-apples comparision, but minor/overlooked hardware/settings differences can produce significantly different FPS results. More than likely we can legitimately explain why some random youtube video is producing different results than you.

Well it just seems like it's time for an upgrade, don't you think? either way I will definitely have to do something about the dual channels since I'm not okay with single 1x16 (maybe swap it for 2x8 or just buy an additional 16 ) but for the better part and I'm only saying my opinion, is that I believe my processor is just a bit old , on top of that I started looking into AMD recently and I think that it's time to swap to AMD's side

I have the 5900x but from what I’ve seen it looks like the x3d hold up in some games to the new processors released today. That said if you are going that route you’d need a new board and ryzen likes fast dual channel ram so you’d be looking at that plus the 5800x3d is kind of expensive.

Your better bet may be to look at the amd zen 4 processors released today since you basically are looking at a new platform anyway. On the power supply you definitely want to check that to see if it’s capable of powering your rig effectively.

so I've been doing some comparisons and watching some videos and benchmarks, to be honest the new zen 4 processors would require a much more expensive upgrade ; to have a mb that supports ddr5 rams + ddr5 rams itself is pretty much expensive atm. Not going crazy with my budget so I was considering the lowest in the zen 4 processors the 7600X processor at 300$ (due to country diff, it won't arrive at the same price and will much probably be way more expensive than the stock price), so all things considered I've seen that the x3D version is on par with the newer zen 4 processors and might even be better than some or most of the new zen 4, but again the x3d is still kind of expensive (but sort of doable), should I go for it or is it an overkill for my rig and should just go for the 5800x?

My takeaway from the Ryzen 7000 launch and Raptor Lake tease is that AMD is going to need to significantly adjust pricing on Ryzen 7000 and introduce 3DVcache SKUs of Ryzen 7000 to maintain competitiveness. AMD decided to >>> power draw to play Intel's game, but Intel is seemingly adding more power draw, AND more cores. AMD's chart-topping Ryzen 7000 spots may be short lived until they launch SKUs with 3DVcache. Not to mention that DDR5 and mobo pricing is still pretty high that it makes the Ryzen 7600X a non-starter on the value proposition. Even the 7700X + platform would be a tough sell.

I'm also less than impressed at the core race these days. Intel/AMD folding their pro-sumer CPUs into their "mainstream" lineups has really muddied the waters on what most people need. Pair that with the >>> power draw of these high core count CPUs that mobo manufacturers need to build for and it inflates mobo costs past what most customers need.

EXACTLY my thoughts, specifically about the motherboard supporting ddr5 rams and the ddr5 rams themselves are all a very expensive upgrade, if I would trade my mb+ cpu with 5800x and mb I really won't be paying that much and I'd get much more value for what I've paid

 

[ohio_buckeye]

The other way to go, get a new ram kit for now. I’m getting a ddr4 3200 32gb kit for 80 bucks probably this week to almost finish my zen 3 system on upgrades. But you can go that route as well. I saw somewhere that b650 boards should be releasing at some point for $125. If that’s the case in a few months then your can always sell your kit and go am5 then. Plus I think they said ddr5 has been coming down. So who knows how things look after Christmas for example, maybe b650 boards will be out and if ram drops, am5 becomes more interesting, plus you then allowed a little time for initial growing pains on the platform to be worked out.

 

[tennis2]

Well it just seems like it's time for an upgrade, don't you think? either way I will definitely have to do something about the dual channels since I'm not okay with single 1x16 (maybe swap it for 2x8 or just buy an additional 16 ) but for the better part and I'm only saying my opinion, is that I believe my processor is just a bit old , on top of that I started looking into AMD recently and I think that it's time to swap to AMD's side

My big takeaway from the Ryzen 7000 review(s) is that the 5800X3D is doing VERY well. Especially when you consider power draw. Of course it's hard to compare with core counts between the 7600X and the 7950X since the 7700X wasn't out for review, but still. No doubt the 7xxxX3D will do more with the higher frequency and power budget, but who knows when that will launch....?
I would say the 7900X/7950X aren't needed for most people. They're definitely the pro-sumer tier replacement for threadripper. So not much point in looking that high on the chain for gaming and typical use cases. Usually the higher end chips do better in gaming simply by having more cache size, not because of their >>> core counts.

I chose to upgrade to a Ryzen 5600(G) instead of Intel 12th gen for power reasons. We're at the point where CPUs and GPUs are drawing too much power. You need expensive cooling, lots of (and/or noisy) fans to cool these things. And even then, you're pumping >>> watts of heat into the room you're in. In a typical bedroom-sized office, the temp increase can become very uncomfortable. In my case, I got 90% of the performance of a 12700K whilst saving 80+W of heat pumping into my room.

 

[Daniel Youssef]

My big takeaway from the Ryzen 7000 review(s) is that the 5800X3D is doing VERY well. Especially when you consider power draw. Of course it's hard to compare with core counts between the 7600X and the 7950X since the 7700X wasn't out for review, but still. No doubt the 7xxxX3D will do more with the higher frequency and power budget, but who knows when that will launch....?
I would say the 7900X/7950X aren't needed for most people. They're definitely the pro-sumer tier replacement for threadripper. So not much point in looking that high on the chain for gaming and typical use cases. Usually the higher end chips do better in gaming simply by having more cache size, not because of their >>> core counts.

I chose to upgrade to a Ryzen 5600(G) instead of Intel 12th gen for power reasons. We're at the point where CPUs and GPUs are drawing too much power. You need expensive cooling, lots of (and/or noisy) fans to cool these things. And even then, you're pumping >>> watts of heat into the room you're in. In a typical bedroom-sized office, the temp increase can become very uncomfortable. In my case, I got 90% of the performance of a 12700K whilst saving 80+W of heat pumping into my room.

Indeed, Intel is kind of out of the equation imo, I've been using Intel for all of my life at this point and reading into AMD I just think it wins in some aspects at this point, but do you think it's worth the extra buck for the x3d or would the 5800X be sufficient for me?

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

Indeed, Intel is kind of out of the equation imo, I've been using Intel for all of my life at this point and reading into AMD I just think it wins in some aspects at this point, but do you think it's worth the extra buck for the x3d or would the 5800X be sufficient for me?

Depends on how long your upgrade times for the next mobo on AM5 are and what GPU you will be using. In your place, I would go for the 5800X which is substantially cheaper than the X3D and dump the extra money in your bank account or in a better GPU (like a RDNA3 GPU this winter).

 

[Daniel Youssef]

Depends on how long your upgrade times for the next mobo on AM5 are and what GPU you will be using. In your place, I would go for the 5800X which is substantially cheaper than the X3D and dump the extra money in your bank account or in a better GPU (like a RDNA3 GPU this winter).

My gpu is 3060 Ti gaming x trio, if I do consider upgrading to AM5 mobo or go next GEN with Ryzen it won't be until a couple of years from now, talking at least 3 years unless during the next 3 years, all the AM5 mb, processors and rams go significantly cheap

 

[tennis2]

Depends on how long your upgrade times for the next mobo on AM5 are and what GPU you will be using. In your place, I would go for the 5800X which is substantially cheaper than the X3D and dump the extra money in your bank account or in a better GPU (like a RDNA3 GPU this winter).

$260 for the 5800X (or $240 for the 5700X) vs $420 for the 5800X3D makes it a difficult value proposition for sure.

From the chart above the 5800X3D is ~29% faster than the 5700X. That's only $308 extrapolated for the 5800X3D though...

 

[Daniel Youssef]

$260 for the 5800X (or $240 for the 5700X) vs $420 for the 5800X3D makes it a difficult value proposition for sure.

From the chart above the 5800X3D is ~29% faster than the 5700X. That's only $308 extrapolated for the 5800X3D though...

so you're saying it's too expensive as a value for money, as it provides roughly 29% faster than 5700X but much more expensive for a 30% increase, would you say 5800X is a decent offer as money for value ?

 

[ohio_buckeye]

I would say 5700x is a good value. I’ve got a 5900x myself. The 5800x you have to know what you are really getting. It will be better in some games but has a steep asking price. The video below is the 5800x vs the 5800x3d, so it should give an idea of what you can expect vs the 5700x.

View: https://youtu.be/sw97hj18OUE

 

[Why_Me]

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-5700X-16-Thread-Unlocked-Processor/dp/B09VCHQHZ6/?th=1
AMD Ryzen 7 5700X $244.99

https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-5700x

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-5700x-cpu-review

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5V1lgctYw

 

[tennis2]

so you're saying it's too expensive as a value for money, as it provides roughly 29% faster than 5700X but much more expensive for a 30% increase, would you say 5800X is a decent offer as money for value ?

It's a tough pill for sure. 30% more performance for 75% more cost vs the 5700X.

Also, with the (assumedly) high cost of the [experimental] 5800X3D and its position STILL at the top of the gaming charts, I'm not sure if AMD is going to be motivated to adjust pricing for now.

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

so you're saying it's too expensive as a value for money, as it provides roughly 29% faster than 5700X but much more expensive for a 30% increase, would you say 5800X is a decent offer as money for value ?

I worry less about how much % for performance I get vs what % of money I spend and more about what my total budget is and what the total lifespan of the PC will be and what I need the PC to do during that lifespan.

My reasoning on picking the 5800X at $260 is that it is a cheap price and it is "good enough", the areas where the X3D outperform by 30% are not universal but game-dependent, the games where the difference in a X3D vs a 5800X will be noticed are more hampered by your GPU where the saved money is better spent, and the idea that by the time you start regretting that you didn't get a X3D, you will want a complete refresh with proper PCI-E 5.0 AM5 mobo, DDR5 RAM with high clocks, with probably Zen 6 CPUs and RNDA 5.0 GPUs and PCI-E 5.0 NVME SSDs.

And that's being optimistic, you can stretch out your build by always focusing more on the GPU. For example, I usually build my PCs on a 8 year basis but I upgrade the GPU every 4 years. My current PC is 9 years old with a Haswell but a RX 580 GPU and I am really feeling the limits of the CPU. Going forward, I plan to shorten the time period for new PCs to 6 years or less because annual CPU performance gains have really improved since the Haswell days where we had 6 years of crap gains. So it makes more sense for me to put less money in the CPU since I will be upgrading it more often.

Edit = The 5700X is at $225 which is a pretty good price as well. I feel like this is just a bad time to buy right now with Raptor Lake coming out in a few weeks, and Nvidia's Ada Lovelace and AMD's Radeon 7000 GPUs coming out this winter. If you plan to buy new GPUs, you will want to wait to see which Ryzen CPU is the recommended CPU partner for each tier of GPU. Also, the Raptor Lake launch will probably lower prices of at least some Zen 3 and/or Zen 4 CPUs. If you have to buy this year, Black Friday will be a really good time.

 

[Daniel Youssef]

I worry less about how much % for performance I get vs what % of money I spend and more about what my total budget is and what the total lifespan of the PC will be and what I need the PC to do during that lifespan.

My reasoning on picking the 5800X at $260 is that it is a cheap price and it is "good enough", the areas where the X3D outperform by 30% are not universal but game-dependent, the games where the difference in a X3D vs a 5800X will be noticed are more hampered by your GPU where the saved money is better spent, and the idea that by the time you start regretting that you didn't get a X3D, you will want a complete refresh with proper PCI-E 5.0 AM5 mobo, DDR5 RAM with high clocks, with probably Zen 6 CPUs and RNDA 5.0 GPUs and PCI-E 5.0 NVME SSDs.

And that's being optimistic, you can stretch out your build by always focusing more on the GPU. For example, I usually build my PCs on a 8 year basis but I upgrade the GPU every 4 years. My current PC is 9 years old with a Haswell but a RX 580 GPU and I am really feeling the limits of the CPU. Going forward, I plan to shorten the time period for new PCs to 6 years or less because annual CPU performance gains have really improved since the Haswell days where we had 6 years of crap gains. So it makes more sense for me to put less money in the CPU since I will be upgrading it more often.

Edit = The 5700X is at $225 which is a pretty good price as well. I feel like this is just a bad time to buy right now with Raptor Lake coming out in a few weeks, and Nvidia's Ada Lovelace and AMD's Radeon 7000 GPUs coming out this winter. If you plan to buy new GPUs, you will want to wait to see which Ryzen CPU is the recommended CPU partner for each tier of GPU. Also, the Raptor Lake launch will probably lower prices of at least some Zen 3 and/or Zen 4 CPUs. If you have to buy this year, Black Friday will be a really good time.

Alright then, I'll be keeping an eye out during black friday (I'm just worried because right now it's at a discount from 400$+ to 260$ in Amazon US, so just bit worried it'll increase or return to original price during Black Friday) . To be clear I've just bought my GPU recently (I think just as soon as it was released, early 2021 or 2020) so I won't be considering an upgrade for the GPU part, at least not soon at all. Would you still say the 5800X (assuming that Raptor Lake is out of the equation or it's way too expensive than the 5800X ..etc) is a good choice for my GPU?

 

[ohio_buckeye]

I will say if you really want the 5800x3d, I found this on ebay. advertised as brand new and the seller has good feedback it appears.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275479194448?hash=item4023d6eb50:g:Hk4AAOSw9XdjNHjW&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAkDhg++OnojWArSf0BGPzYDVinddOP5/s1ISCHHk5FynTIUWJSGkTjCsMGHR2niv8RaZIxjxxb0/ju8LlCUCGWLmVWeZoIIK9fZwKDdb0np2sf0z8wUWUISj25fkVKfbG2NXb3Tg3zAKaDxz40Ga3VAk2uzjWLukzj+XJ8SYtlbKaR1dJg1RdmhDeADJIkldApw==|tkp:Bk9SR-y8kdHwYA&LH_BIN=1

I looked on there and you can get used 5700x and 5800x cpus for about 220-230. So it's up to you. If I look at newegg the 5800x3d is 429.99 so a bit more. I will say that personally I'd upgraded from a 3600 to a 5600x, and it was a good upgrade, but I'd been thinking about getting the 5900x or 5800x3d. I ended up selling the 5600x and getting the 5900x. So you may keep in mind too if you will have buyers remorse and wish you'd gotten the better cpu, but that is your decision. The 5800x or 5700x should both be good performers as well. But I suppose you have to ask how long are you keeping this PC.

Since I mentioned the 5900x, here's another cpu for consideration.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334575349888?epid=23042003629&hash=item4de63eb080:g:JcsAAOSwDjRjNFJU&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAkBeI1f0ozMVJDwhtDQjhZ0QAKRAq8UWHvLgD2FfiCsXpDkCjD/PpJh7syCaLVsKwWDjlmJAczbzFmp/dE2ngTqPjOlJeGy3aTog7v8r4H/Rw5yMtSAUsA2+QW0eVj3J8GYPkNUqIi0XG8vpeAp7HXCboXhBHWhHpfjsFAzuiZBrP7L8fNUjLApz+YbLps0DbCA==|tkp:Bk9SR_D6ttHwYA&LH_BIN=1

It looks like they could have cleaned the thermal paste off better, but the price is 334.99 which isn't bad. Plus you should have the ebay money back guarantee so if the cpu doesn't work then you can file a claim to say your item was not as described. The last few cpu's I've purchased were from ebay with no issues, including my 5900x. You won't get quite as much cache as the 5800x3d, but you get more cores and one of the best cpus of the generation.

This might give an idea of the differences on the 3. One thing I have heard, if you look up a guy named tech deals on youtube, he's talked before how the 5900x and above can feel smoother and that the average fps may not be higher but the frame times etc can be better which helps smoothness etc in his opinion.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SugWzak8ZWw

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

Alright then, I'll be keeping an eye out during black friday (I'm just worried because right now it's at a discount from 400$+ to 260$ in Amazon US, so just bit worried it'll increase or return to original price during Black Friday) . To be clear I've just bought my GPU recently (I think just as soon as it was released, early 2021 or 2020) so I won't be considering an upgrade for the GPU part, at least not soon at all. Would you still say the 5800X (assuming that Raptor Lake is out of the equation or it's way too expensive than the 5800X ..etc) is a good choice for my GPU?

Oh, well if you already started to get your hardware, I would just buy the $260 5800X CPU now. If you want the X3D, I don't know if it will drop in price, it seems to be very in demand by gamers. The CPU will be a part that drops the least in price and CPUs tend to be priced stably with lots of supply and lots of demand. I was referring more to RAM, NAND, and GPUs dropping a good amount in price during Black Friday (and I would consider extra RAM, NAND, and GPUs to be all be discretionary goods among PC hardware so the price varies more as well).

Which games do you want to play? Edit = I need to learn to read better.

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

I will say if you really want the 5800x3d, I found this on ebay. advertised as brand new and the seller has good feedback it appears.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275479194448?hash=item4023d6eb50:g:Hk4AAOSw9XdjNHjW&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAkDhg++OnojWArSf0BGPzYDVinddOP5/s1ISCHHk5FynTIUWJSGkTjCsMGHR2niv8RaZIxjxxb0/ju8LlCUCGWLmVWeZoIIK9fZwKDdb0np2sf0z8wUWUISj25fkVKfbG2NXb3Tg3zAKaDxz40Ga3VAk2uzjWLukzj+XJ8SYtlbKaR1dJg1RdmhDeADJIkldApw==|tkp:Bk9SR-y8kdHwYA&LH_BIN=1

You are right in that it is a good price because it already closed the listing.

 

[Daniel Youssef]

Oh, well if you already started to get your hardware, I would just buy the $260 5800X CPU now. If you want the X3D, I don't know if it will drop in price, it seems to be very in demand by gamers. The CPU will be a part that drops the least in price and CPUs tend to be priced stably with lots of supply and lots of demand. I was referring more to RAM, NAND, and GPUs dropping a good amount in price during Black Friday (and I would consider extra RAM, NAND, and GPUs to be all be discretionary goods among PC hardware so the price varies more as well).

Which games do you want to play? Edit = I need to learn to read better.

To be quite fair, I'm mainly upgrading for Warzone 2 (the upcoming one), It was an extremely terrible experience in the first one, with my processor and my gpu I had like 80 fps or 90 on lowest settings while a friend of mine having a 1600X or something way older than mine (AMD) had around 120-140 fps, with that being said I won't only play CoD (but it will be my main game taking up most of my time tbh) I do play some Apex, Lost ark, dead by daylight and lots of singleplayer (storytelling games; spiderman remastered, Metro Exodus...etc)

Update: So just to be clear from what you've mentioned that the CPU prices are less likely to change prices during black friday, if that's the case do you propose to go on with it and get it now? (Amazon Germany has is for 242 euros which is quite a great price for me )

Last thing I wanted to ask, am I going to need to change my Liquid cooler to 2 fans cooler or is mine sufficient? (mine is Thermaltake Water 3.0 Performer C 120mm AIO Liquid Cooling System)

 

[ohio_buckeye]

For a big dog cpu like the 5800x3d, you’d probably want to upgrade the cooler. Actually on my 5900x, I’m using a vetroo v5 air cooler with 2 fans in push pull. That keeps it under about 72 under load. So you may be able to go that way. Wouldn’t anticipate a big drop on cpus. Maybe on motherboards or ram. As I think about it if you have an i7 8700 now, and are going to am4 you probably want the 5800x3d or the 5900x imo because your existing system is about equivalent to zen 2 I think.

 

[Daniel Youssef]

For a big dog cpu like the 5800x3d, you’d probably want to upgrade the cooler. Actually on my 5900x, I’m using a vetroo v5 air cooler with 2 fans in push pull. That keeps it under about 72 under load. So you may be able to go that way. Wouldn’t anticipate a big drop on cpus. Maybe on motherboards or ram. As I think about it if you have an i7 8700 now, and are going to am4 you probably want the 5800x3d or the 5900x imo because your existing system is about equivalent to zen 2 I think.

Indeed, what about the cooling of the 5800X, do you think it'll need a 2 fans Liquid or the one I have will be sufficient? also the 5800X has a pretty good offer on it right now to 260$ while the X3D is 420$ on amazon

 

[BFG-9000]

I will say that if you are not the type to upgrade frequently, the 5800x3D will likely perform acceptably until further into the distant future.

The last time someone did something like this, the performance remained within 10% of CPUs 5 generations and 6 years afterwards. And that's when handicapped with DDR3, with the extra cache only being slow DRAM instead of SRAM.

Cache matters, especially as memory latency hasn't improved since the days of DDR1 so the CPU is now waiting thousands of clock cycles for the first word instead of hundreds if it has to go to RAM (DDR1-400 at 2-2-2 timings had the same 10ns latency that DDR5-4800 would have at 24-24-24, but you know 40-40-40 is way more common. At the same time CPU clock speeds have climbed to up to 5.8GHz so things have got much worse + ever more improvements must be done to improve hitrate and prediction)

 

[ohio_buckeye]

As I think more as I said I’d go 5800x3d or 5900x if you are keeping the pc a long time. Keep in mind you’ll likely be able to resell some pieces later.