[SOLVED] Upgraded from i5-8600k to i7-9700k and I've got a bunch of instabillity issues with games.

mikemefistous

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Hello Everyone,
I thought upgrading a CPU was supposed to be smooth and clean sailing, no format required etc and while that's true for the most part, there has been a few issues I encountered with my upgrade.

First of, here is my RIG:
  • CPU: i7 9700k
  • CPU Cooler: Dark Rock Pro 4 with MX-4 Thermal Paste
  • MOBO: MSI Z370 Pro Gaming Carbon (Requires BIOS Update to support the i7-9700k, which I did prior to swapping out my i5 8600k)
  • GPU: MSI RTX 2070 ARMOR Edition
  • RAM: 2x8GB Corsair CL15 3000MHz RAM Kit CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 (Have specifically chosen it, from my MOBO's official website, tested ram kits and have run MEMTEST86 on it about a year ago)
  • PSU: EVGA SuperNova P2 650Watt Platinum
  • STORAGE: Main: Samsung NVME M.2 500GB with OverProvisioning Enabled, Samsung 850 EVO 250GB, Western Digital Black 2TB 7200RPM, Seagate 3TB 7200RPM.
  • MONITORS: LG27GL850-B(G-Sync Enabled), Dell UH2414H (1080p 60fpshave tried plugging it on my GPU and my CPU onboard, haven't noticed any instabilities regarding on where I am plugging it in)
  • PERIPHERALS: Glorious Model O gaming mouse, Razer BlackWidow 2016 Tournament Edition Mechanical Keyboard, external DAC/AMP: Sennheiser GSX1200 PRO + Sennheiser Game One Headset(Onboard Audio is disabled from BIOS, no Audio Drivers installed)
  • PC CASE: Cougar Panzer Max (Full Tower, great Air Cooling)
So here is where things get weird, everything went smoothly with the upgrade, however, as soon as I enable X.M.P. in BIOS or try and OC the CPU even a little bit, it causes all kinds of instabillity in specific games. Star Wars Battlefront 2(DX12 was barely getting 50fps, switching to DX11 fixxed it)Fifa 21(a DX12 only game) will crash to desktop without any warnings or error messages. Every Cryengine game(Crysis 3, Ryse Son of Rome) will underperform and be jittery/frameskipping and my GPU will only work at 40-60% regardless of the graphics settings, when I used to be able to play those games easily at 100-144FPS with my i5 8600k(@4.7GHz) fully stable. Even CSGO with 250-350FPS, has microstuttering, which is a reoccuring issue with that game, that happens to a lot of my friends as well and automagically gets fixxed from time to time.

Another new issue is that the MSI Afterburner Auto GPU Overclock that is a new feuture of the RTX GPUs, will fail at the beginning, it will say "Scan Failed".

I've tried everything and have so far found 4 temporary semi-solutions/semi-workarounds but I have yet to figure out what's causing this and how to fully fix it.
1st) Don't know why this works, but apparently, I took out the BIOS Battery and did a CMOS Reset, even used a jumper etc... After doing that and OCing, FIFA 21 wasn't crashing anymore. I even managed to use MSI AfterBurner Utility to auto OC my GPU, when it was failing before doing so. That is until a day passed, PC cycled and now it's back to crashing every 5 minutes in-game for Fifa 21, but at least i kept my GPU OC.
2nd) Enabling Fast Sync from the Nvidia Control Panel, on the specific games that are unstable(Fifa 21, Crysis 3, Ryse Son Of Rome, Star Wars Battlefront 2). That fixxed the GPU working only at 40-50% and underperforming in those games. They are smooth as butter with the Fast Sync enabled, however I am not taking advantage of my Gsync as the Fast Sync causes somewhat more delay in combination with Gsync, than the delay that Gsync+Vsync have.
3rd) Not doing any OCing at all... Not even the X.M.P. Leave the BIOS to default settings(Not affected by minor personal tweaks, such as enabling 2nd monitor, disabling onboard audio, personal CPU/case fans curve)
4th) When Possible, switching the API from DX12 to DX11, fixxed all the instability/input lag/frame skipping/low fps issues. However when I played Control at DX12, that game was the only DX12 game that was stable...

Things I tried to do to fix it, but were to no avail:
  • Reinstall those unstable games(delete their documents/save/settings files etc.)
  • Latest BIOS Version(did that before the Upgrade, duh)
  • Latest Chipset Drivers etc.(From mobo manufacturer's website, did that after the upgrade)
  • DDU to cleanly reinstall nvidia drivers/intel drivers(for onboard second monitor)
  • CCleaner to fix registry issues
  • IObit Driver Scanner, to see if anything was missing)
  • Reseating the GPU on my MOBO and RAM.
My OC is stable with better temps than my i5 8600k, at much lesser voltage. Stable under Prime 95 1 hour(the old version with non-avx instructions), great scores on Cinebench R15, IntelBurnTest v2(has AVX instructions)
I've done a mild OC, all cores 4.9GHz fixxed at 1.325 Volts, Intel C States disabled, VCCIO:1.15V, VCCSA: 1.9 and X.M.P. enabled. LLC(Load Line Calibration): Level 4(Middle, voltage stays were I put it, even under load, will maybe differ by .005) and AVX offset of -3.
CPU usage never goes above 40-60% so far, I've got Dual Channel Memory properly installed on MOBO, tried running in Full Screen/Borderless Widnowed, Vsync On Off.

Games that run great, currently without the need for any tweaks on my end: Red Dead Redemption 2(Ultra settings 1440p ~70fps Vulkan API), Battlefield 1( Maxxed Out settings 130-144FPS Campaign @1440p DX11, haven't tried DX12, but I bet it will run terribly if I switch it to it, since Star Wars Battlefront 2 also made by DICE on the same Engine, was running horribly on DX12), Metro Exodus(100fps High Preset, DX12 game @1440p )

So what's the deal here? What Can I do to fix this? I've seen quite a few posts with the issues on the i7 9700k, most of them did Windows Format but the issue still persists. Others bought UPS for clean electricity, but it didn't fix the issue.

My personal case and reasearch lead me to conclude, it's got something to do with DX12 and Cryengine games(can be bypassed by enabling Fast Sync on DX12 games or CryEngine games), leaving the BIOS OC settings to default, not even X.M.P. enabled. Don't know if this helps, but people were complaining on some forums, that FIFA 21 and DX12 EA games in general, have issues at properly handling AVX instructions on games and will cause instability in some OverClocked Systems, which supprisingly I semi-noticed that AVX offset is enabled when playing such games and indeed my CPU VCore voltage, despite being fixxed, will be affected by such games with AVX instructions. Currently I tried running FIFA 21(DX12 game) with a milder OC all cores 4.8GHz at 1.3Volts Vcore and no AVX offset and it indeed has not crashed after playing for an hour, however cryengine games will run terribly, unless i set the Fast Sync ON from the nvidia control panel for them.
 
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mikemefistous

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Found The Fix/Solution! It was all just a bunch of bad luck events on my end...

1) MY Overclock was unstable, that's what was causing the crashes in FIFA 21 with no error message. I followed der8auer 's OC guide, but due to me having a z370 instead of a z390, I thought was causing me to only manage an OC of 4.9GHz with an AVX of -2, with a bit more voltage and indeed his choices were stable on my system for benchmarks/various video-games. But poorly optimized games like FIFA 21, were interfering with the AVX offset, which was causing the crashes, FIFA 21 requires to be stable without AVX instructions, in order for it not to crash. I now have a 4.8GHz all core at 1.305 Vcore with no AVX offset and system is stable on everything, with great temps, because opting for a 4.9GHz OC with 0 AVX offset, was requiring for me to change my voltage to 1.370, where my temps would spike to 90-92C and I was uncomfortable with.

2) The other software, while it were running fine on my i5 8600k, a bunch of other people with simillar systems to mine, have instabillities after some windows 10 updates. So games I hadn't played in over a year, were propably broken by windows 10 updates and I was able to manually fix them. If you look into forums, a bunch of people are still complaining since launch about Star Wars Battlefront 2 DX12 being broken. Well it wasn't broken for my i5 8600k, but it is for my i7 9700k...
As far as CryEngine Games go (Crysis 3, Crysis Remastered, Ryse Son Of Rome) they weren't broken on my i5 8600k, but they are for my 9700k as for many other people and the fixxes are: "Set Vsync to Fast from the nvidia control panel" or "set Max FPS to 1000Fps from the Nvidia Control Panel." I opted out for the 2nd fix, which allows me to use GSync+Vsync for a smoother/more conisistent experience than Fast Sync in my opinion.
As far as Battlefield 1 is concerned, I tried out the DX12 mode and it was running fine, no difference noticed from DX11.
 
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mikemefistous

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did you apply new thermal paste?
did you tweak your cache settings - RING value along with the OC?
I mean yeah, the temps are fine and in order to swap out my old i5 8600k to the new 9700k I have to put thermal paste.
No, I played with it, but ended up leaving it to default.

My OC only blue screened when the voltage was below 1.315 Vcore @4.9GHz, so I ended up with 1.325-1.330 fixxed Vcore Voltage and LLC level 4(basically stays at 1.325 the whole time)
 
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mikemefistous

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sorry read the last answers mid-edit may want to check if your RING value was sufficient for your OC
What do you mean by that? By default it's at 4.3Ghz, if I play with it, I can increase it up to 4.7GHz with no issues, but to ease my mind I had it running at 4.6Ghz and now I have left it to auto, which is back down to 4.3GHz
 
I was reading through the BIOS revisions and note a couple of the later revisions 'with' 9th gen compat also mention specifically a change in code to help throttling (blah blah) with the 8700.
Looking at the VRM for this board doesn't exactly instill confidence that it's got great power delivery.

My thoughts would be that IF taking off the OC helped, that is exactly what I would do. I would imagine that the OC is drawing so much power that you are overheating the motherboard. I would suggest that you might be able to see a difference by removing the side panel and pointing a fan, or placing a case fan blowing on the VRM area of the motherboard to see if it changes stability.
 
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mikemefistous

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I was reading through the BIOS revisions and note a couple of the later revisions 'with' 9th gen compat also mention specifically a change in code to help throttling (blah blah) with the 8700.
Looking at the VRM for this board doesn't exactly instill confidence that it's got great power delivery.

My thoughts would be that IF taking off the OC helped, that is exactly what I would do. I would imagine that the OC is drawing so much power that you are overheating the motherboard. I would suggest that you might be able to see a difference by removing the side panel and pointing a fan, or placing a case fan blowing on the VRM area of the motherboard to see if it changes stability.
Hmm, I doubt that's my issue. Its a medium to high end z370 motherboard. Bought it 190 Euros. There were at least 3 cheaper z370 models from msi boards.


Half the games run fine, benchmarks are fine and stable. Every unstable game, is unstable under DX12 and if the game allows me to change the api to DX11 or Vulkan the problem goes away.

Hell, even under this OC and games set to DX12 mode, I can run all my problematic games just fine, if i set the vsync to 'fast' mode from the nvidia control panel.(fast fixxes cryengine games, fifa21 no-error crashes to desktop)

I just dont want this fast sync to be my solution, since it interferes with my gsync monitor's lowest input lag usage.

I am certain that hardware/temps/vrms are 99% not to blame.

Some strange behavior I noticed, is that under my mobo's stokc settings, the CPU will draw up to 1.430volts on VCORE!!! (Flanctuates from 0.800Volts up to 1.430)Volts. The power draw wont go passed 95Watts though...(using hardware info for those measurements)

The power draw under my 4.9ghz OC with no limitations can reach up to 180Watts with safe temps(max temp spike up to 85C)
 

mikemefistous

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Also if this was a vrm weakness, shouldnt that show up the more i use my system, the more unstable it gets after being stressed for longs periods of time? My issue is instantaneous with soecific software..
 
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mikemefistous

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MAJOR UPDATE:
I am 100% Certain it's not an OC issue/Temperature Issue/PSU Issue/Hardware Issue, Ignore my rants about reseting CMOS Etc. that's all old news. Even when turning off the OC, games like Crysis still bug out and underperform or underutilize my GPU.(only 30-40% usage, regardless of graphics settings)

The only FIX I have is to set the Vsync from the nvidia control panel to FAST, in order for CryEngine Games to run properly. I am currently getting 150-200FPS on a 1440p monitor all settings on LOW, when I set the Vsync to Fast from the nvidia control panel.

I've seen other posts online about people with simillar specs or identically i7 9700k (8 core 8 threads 12mb L3 cache) or the i7 10700k(8 core 16 threads 16mb L3 cache) have simillar issues even with RTX3090 on CryEngine games and some DX12 games. They did Windows Format, bought UPS, changed PSUs, Unplugged the front USB 3.0 ports of their cases. Did CMOS resets, all of it.

Nothing Fixxes this problem, other than setting nvidia's control panel Vsync to Fast.

Just to clarify in my case, I didn't build my PC from the start like those other cases I researched(some guy with 9700k + rtx2080ti had this issue and another guy with an i7 10700k + RTX3090).
I just upgraded the CPU and did no Windwos 10 Format and I don't think doing one will fix it, as none of them got that issue fixxed with a format...
On my build I never HAD TO DO that setting of Vsync->Fast Mode from the nvidia control panel, until I upgraded my CPU from the i5 8600k to the i7 9700k.
Now the only way to play half my games properly is to do that tweak...

What could be the culprit?
 

Afro_ninja199

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MAJOR UPDATE:
I am 100% Certain it's not an OC issue/Temperature Issue/PSU Issue/Hardware Issue, Ignore my rants about reseting CMOS Etc. that's all old news. Even when turning off the OC, games like Crysis still bug out and underperform or underutilize my GPU.(only 30-40% usage, regardless of graphics settings)

The only FIX I have is to set the Vsync from the nvidia control panel to FAST, in order for CryEngine Games to run properly. I am currently getting 150-200FPS on a 1440p monitor all settings on LOW, when I set the Vsync to Fast from the nvidia control panel.

I've seen other posts online about people with simillar specs or identically i7 9700k (8 core 8 threads 12mb L3 cache) or the i7 10700k(8 core 16 threads 16mb L3 cache) have simillar issues even with RTX3090 on CryEngine games and some DX12 games. They did Windows Format, bought UPS, changed PSUs, Unplugged the front USB 3.0 ports of their cases. Did CMOS resets, all of it.

Nothing Fixxes this problem, other than setting nvidia's control panel Vsync to Fast.

Just to clarify in my case, I didn't build my PC from the start like those other cases I researched(some guy with 9700k + rtx2080ti had this issue and another guy with an i7 10700k + RTX3090).
I just upgraded the CPU and did no Windwos 10 Format and I don't think doing one will fix it, as none of them got that issue fixxed with a format...
On my build I never HAD TO DO that setting of Vsync->Fast Mode from the nvidia control panel, until I upgraded my CPU from the i5 8600k to the i7 9700k.
Now the only way to play half my games properly is to do that tweak...

What could be the culprit?
try different ram????, your saying its running fine until you turn X.M.P then it plays up?>
 

mikemefistous

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try different ram????, your saying its running fine until you turn X.M.P then it plays up?>
Not what. I am saying. Ignore my comments on OC stability and XMP.


Most Games using the DX12 API or are made using the cryengine run terrible.

Those games stop acting up when I do either of these steps:

1)Set VSync to Fast Mode from the nvidia control Panel.(Cryengine games are at only 30-40% of GPU usage regardless of my graphical settings, the games on it will run with frametime issues, frameskipping, jittery mouse movement and only at about 40-50fps. If I max out the settings, the framerate, wont change, however the gpu usage will go up to 80-90%. If I enable Fast Sync, Crysis 3 for example will go from 40-50fps, all the way up to 150-200fps and 99-100% gpu usage)

2)If a game is running on DX12 it has the same instability and poor framerate issues as the cryengine games, however their gpu usage will show to be at 100% regardless of the api. If I switch the game's API to DX11 the framerate and gameplay is fine again.
For example Star Wars Battlefront 2 will go from 20-30 fps, all the way up to 120fps


These are new problems and new behavior caused by switching out my cpu.

My old CPU i5-8600k on the same system was running cryengine games and DX12 games without a hassle. It was only after I switched it to the 9700k that those issues showed up... I am considering communicating with intel to see if this has anythimg to do with various patches for exploits that they made, such as the spectre meltdown, because some of them were only patched for the 8th gen, while the 9th gen had these exploits fixxed from the factory. Perhaps these exploit patches were automatically installed for my i5 8600k and now that I put a 9th gen chip, they behave weirdly?
These patches that affect system performance, are perhaps tied to and differently with DX12 or under the cryengine, that's why my issue shows up?
 
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mikemefistous

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Jun 3, 2016
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Found The Fix/Solution! It was all just a bunch of bad luck events on my end...

1) MY Overclock was unstable, that's what was causing the crashes in FIFA 21 with no error message. I followed der8auer 's OC guide, but due to me having a z370 instead of a z390, I thought was causing me to only manage an OC of 4.9GHz with an AVX of -2, with a bit more voltage and indeed his choices were stable on my system for benchmarks/various video-games. But poorly optimized games like FIFA 21, were interfering with the AVX offset, which was causing the crashes, FIFA 21 requires to be stable without AVX instructions, in order for it not to crash. I now have a 4.8GHz all core at 1.305 Vcore with no AVX offset and system is stable on everything, with great temps, because opting for a 4.9GHz OC with 0 AVX offset, was requiring for me to change my voltage to 1.370, where my temps would spike to 90-92C and I was uncomfortable with.

2) The other software, while it were running fine on my i5 8600k, a bunch of other people with simillar systems to mine, have instabillities after some windows 10 updates. So games I hadn't played in over a year, were propably broken by windows 10 updates and I was able to manually fix them. If you look into forums, a bunch of people are still complaining since launch about Star Wars Battlefront 2 DX12 being broken. Well it wasn't broken for my i5 8600k, but it is for my i7 9700k...
As far as CryEngine Games go (Crysis 3, Crysis Remastered, Ryse Son Of Rome) they weren't broken on my i5 8600k, but they are for my 9700k as for many other people and the fixxes are: "Set Vsync to Fast from the nvidia control panel" or "set Max FPS to 1000Fps from the Nvidia Control Panel." I opted out for the 2nd fix, which allows me to use GSync+Vsync for a smoother/more conisistent experience than Fast Sync in my opinion.
As far as Battlefield 1 is concerned, I tried out the DX12 mode and it was running fine, no difference noticed from DX11.
 
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