Upgrading a reliable 6 year old computer, what do you think?

ck2k4

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May 10, 2013
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10,510
Hi everyone,

Let me start by announcing that I have only ever upgraded some ram and a graphics card before, no custom builds.

I have a 'Compaq Presario SR5139UK':
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01138955&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&cc=uk&dlc=en&lc=en&product=3470290#N262

The only modification I have made was when the graphics card died, and I replaced it with an 'XFX GEFORCE 9600GT 512MB':
http://www.amazon.co.uk/XFX-Nvidia-GeForce-9600GT-Graphics/dp/B001FQQJJO

Now this computer has served me very well and it still runs smoothly most of the time, but I think it's time to give it some more power.

My Budget: low, so a new machine is out of the question and I don't think it necessary.

I don't need an over powered monster that will allow me to play Crisis 6 on full settings in 10 years from now so don't even go there :D

I'm currently looking at the following:

MB - MSI Z77MA-G45
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/motherboards/intel1155z77chipset/microatxformfactor/z77ma-g45.html

CPU - Intel® Core™ i5 3470
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/processors/intel3rdgencorei3,i5andi71155socket/bx80637i53470.html

RAM - Corsair Value Select 8GB (2x4GB)
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/memory-pc/ddr3-pc3-10666/1333mhz/cmv8gx3m2a1333c9.html

At first I was thinking of just getting new ram, but that requires a new mb, which requires a new cpu so here we are...

The current MB is around 24cm x 24cm and there isn't room for a bigger board inside this case.

Would you consider this a good idea?
Would it even function?
Would it require more power / cooling?

I have a student DreamSpark account which gives me access to Windows 7/8 so I'll most likely be upgrading to Windows 8 after installing the new hardware.

Thank you for your time and your opinions, I will appreciate any responses.

Chris
 
upgrading the ram does not require a new motherboard. you can still get ram for your system. i saw 2x4 ddr2 sets on ebay for $40

a core2duo system is starting to get a bit dated now but if you do not play the latest games at the highest graphics settings then you are most likely fine.

generally speaking most box brand computer cases are crap for cooling. you can pick up a computer case with better cooling for cheap.

i also would not trust the power supply used in box brand cases.

could you most likely throw a new board, cpu and ram in with an old case, gpu and psu? most likely. not the best solution by far but it would probably work.

a better solution would be for you to list what your total maximum budget is and perhaps we can work something out which does better.

you will also need to list what types of tasks or games you want to play on what settings.

as far as win8 is concerned... my brothers laptop has it and i hate it. the start menu screen idea is not a very good idea and is more suitable for a tablet not a desktop pc. windows 7 is a much better choice. i use it on two laptops and my desktop. either the pro or home premium are fine.
 

ck2k4

Honorable
May 10, 2013
6
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10,510
Thanks for your response and all the suggestions.

I considered looking for some ddr2 ram but now I'm really liking the idea of improving the system in general.

I occasionally play Aion and might be interested in the new Neverwinter online game, also I'll be programming with java / c++ for personal and work related projects.

At work we use IntelliJ which can take up a lot of system resources, my work pc has 8gb ram and the other devs consider it slow...

I also use software like Photoshop / AfterEffects (cs3) and I know the newer versions require more resources too.


So you would recommend getting a new case and psu plus the other (or similar) items, and keeping the old gpu for now?

I don't really have a figure in mind as a budget but I'd like to keep costs low while keeping my options open for the future, like being able to add things later and not starting over from scratch.
 
what i proposed:

new processor (i suggest i7 since you run professional apps but you can probably "make do" with an i5 if you had to)
new motherboard (i suggest one with onboard sound and usb3.0
new ram (i suggest one with a lifetime warranty 8 or 16gb)
new power supply (wattage depends on final parts, i suggest corsair or pcp&c)
new case (i suggest one with usb3.0 ports and good airflow, preferably 120mm fan ports)
old hard drive (perhaps this could be a future upgrade if you wanted to go that route)
old video card (i suggest upgrading to a middle of the road current product in the future)
old dvd drive
old mouse, keyboard
old monitor (depending on what you have this may be a future upgrade item.

in the near future i would suggest upgrading your video card to something at least in the middle of the road in terms of performance. this will give you better rendering performance for your professional applications and games both. your current video card is quite dated (its not much better than the one my 10 year old pc used).

you also have the option of adding a ssd drive in the future to make your system even snappier. as time goes on prices will become more reasonable so holding off now isn't a bad thing if you were interested. of course you could get by on your old hard drive or a standard 7200 drive if you so wanted. personally ever since i used an ssd i havent wanted to go back (at least for my c: drive). game performance doesnt increase but file transfer speeds, boot time and program load times are all much better. the bad part is they are expensive.

depending on what resolution your current monitor is you may want to upgrade that in the future as well but i will leave that up to you to decide. for instance if you are still stuck on a 1024x768 or other low resolution you may want to upgade to a larger screen and 1920x1080 or in your case 1920x1200 may be better.
 

ck2k4

Honorable
May 10, 2013
6
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10,510
Thanks again for your very detailed response, you're most helpful.

I've been browsing around to explore i5 / i7 and I wonder if the gain is worth the cost.
I have seen some contradicting articles, some saying the i7 is obviously better because of the multi-threading and clock speed difference, and some saying that when tested, there isn't that much difference between their performances.

I can grab an i5 3470 for £153, or an i7 3770 / 3770k for £242 / £275, so do you think the difference is worth that jump in price?

I've been looking at some micro atx cases as I feel like I just don't need a box with 7 extra hard drive bays and 4 optical drive slots. Makes me realise just how awful my current case is with no intake and one small LOUD fan caked in dust lol

Oh and the monitor is 1680 x 1050 and I'm happy enough with it for now. Can't imagine living with a 1024x768 ha
 
techpowerup i5 vs i7
anadtech cpu roundup photoshop
anandtech cpu roundup software development

compared with....

anandtech cpu roundup games

in short an i5 can outperform an i7 in some gaming environments but an i7 will outperform an i5 in professional applications. i have read that a new i5 cpu can also out perform old model i7 cpu models but this isnt really comparing oranges to oranges as any new cpu likely beats models several years old. new model to new model the tests run like i said above.

look at the performance charts i linked and judge for yourself what you think about the differences betwen the i5 and i7. if you were going to be doing straight gaming then i would recommend the i5 hands down since you dont need an i7. since you are going to be doing professional applications though you may want to think about the i7. while slight differences in performance times may not seem like much it can definitely add up to a whole lot of added productivity over the course of an hour, a day, a month, a year... you get the point. for instance if you do a command 30 times every hour and can shave off 5 seconds and repeat that every hour for a whole 8 hour shift you can save yourself 20 minutes of waiting. a vague and oversimplified example sure but its easy to visualize.

the difference between models suffixed with K and those without a suffix is that the K models are unlocked and able to be overclocked. if you do not want to overclock you can save a few dollars and go with a non K version.

personally i would not recommend going with a mini-itx form factor for a gaming slash professional application machine. matx boards are chock full of features considering their size but they still suffer. here are a few limitations of matx:
-often limited to 2x sticks of ram. there are versions of 4x but you have to watch as some have 2x ddr2 and 2x ddr3 for some odd reason.
-often limited to a single pci-e slot for video card use, a normal pci slot and an x4 slot. this means that your upgrade options are much more limited. for instance you could have a video card in one, a usb extension card in the other and be pretty much unable to add anything else. you could use the x4 slot but performance is severely limited.
-onboard sound has limited outputs and inputs compared to the atx form factor.

as you can see while the matx boards certainly would get the job done you limit your upgrade potential severely. performance will also likely be better on an atx board compared with an matx board.

as far as matx cases go i would suggest very highly that you do not use matx cases for any sort of demanding applications. while it is entirely possible to make such a computer work for you there are several reasons i would not suggset it listed below:
-some large components such as extended video cards tend not to fit. i am not sure what type of video card you will upgrade to but its a known fact that some larger than normal cards have fitament problems with some cases.
-the small form factor and cramped inside are bad for airflow. you are more prone to overheating unless you have some pretty good fans. even with good fans your temperatures will be much higher than in a larger case with the same airflow.
-matx cases may not be compatible with all psu units. if the unit does fit inside the case then what will you do with all the cabling? you would want a psu with modular plugs for sure.
-lets say in the future you want 2 dvd drives (for copying files from dvd to dvd or back up purposes), a camera card/multifunction panel and some other sort of front bay device. on a small case you would be limited on what you can use while a full tower you are not. also keep in mind that on several popular models the front serves as an air intake. you dont have to use all of the hdd slots and in fact leaving most of them open increase airflow throughout the case. in a matx case things are going to be more clustered.
-is there a good reason for going matx besides the fact that you think a tower is ugly and large? some people go to lan parties and use small cases but if you look they are often quite well cooled and often they need to come up with good solutions just to keep average temperatures. if you dont require this small size then it will be worthwhile to go with a larger case.

just some ideas.
 

ck2k4

Honorable
May 10, 2013
6
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10,510
That was some good interesting reading, and it's clear now just how superior the i7 is, but for cost reasons I'll take my time to decide one way or the other.

In regards to your case suggestions, I had been looking at a SilverStone PS07 case (comes in black or white):
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-214-SV&groupid=2362&catid=2278

It has 2x 120mm fans at the front for intake, and I would attach another 120mm fan for exhaust at the rear panel.
The PSU gets its own exhaust vent at the top panel and the MB is angled so that the CPU is in line with the fresh airflow from the front.

The case can fit (according to a YouTube review) GPU up to around 340mm in length.

The MB I mentioned in my first post has 4xDDR3 RAM slots, 2xPCIe 3.0 x16, 2xPCIe 2.0 x1, and a USB3 header for the two USB3 ports on the case.

I would indeed go for modular power but I currently don't know enough to guess at how much I would need for the components we listed earlier (mix of new and old).

By the way I feel like I'm bugging you lol I hope this isn't troublesome
 
assuming worst case scenario of an i7, 4 ram sticks, 1 hdd, 1 ssd, 1 high end gpu, 3 fans and a front bay device your bare minimum power requirements are around 424w. i would recommend at least 500, preferably 550. corsair and pc power & cooling both have 650w models which are more than you need but should work fine. sparkle has a 600w unit. these are the only brands that i personally trust but i am sure others do work fine. do not just go out and buy a $30 psu as it will be a big mistake.

it looks like the matx board you found is actually not half bad. personally i would still suggest full atx but something like what you picked should work. just be sure to check cpu socket and other details before you buy.

that silvertone case also doesnt look half bad. i would definitely add a fan on the back slot. it will probably work fine but personally i'm not a fan of very small tight cases as they heat up faster. again, your choice and it will likely work.

not troublesome at all. at least you do your own research and ask good questions. there are some people on here who want you to spoon feed them everything. they want you to do all the research and just hand them a parts list. oh they want the best prices on the parts too. i dont mind discussing tech or making recommendations but i'm not into spoon feeding.

--------------

in case you were wondering... my personal choice of cases is the complete opposite of what you are thinking of gettings:

corsair obsidian 800d
corsair_obsidian_airflow2.jpg


the volume of ambient air alone reduces my cooling needs so that my fans run at low most of the time. i never even had to upgrade my cpu cooler or add additional case fans. it makes a nice bookend at the edge of my desk. i think its just about as tall as my 40" television.
 

ck2k4

Honorable
May 10, 2013
6
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10,510
That's a monster case, forget bookend it could hold up my desk, and I could probably fit my monitor inside too without filling it up (now there's an idea...) It must be great though with all that air flow and space.

I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the aforementioned parts and i5 along with a Corsair Builder Series Modular CX600M within the next couple of days unless my mind changes, I saw their GS600 which is supposedly made from superior parts but it isn't modular and I'm not sure if I would notice the difference since I won't be pushing any limits really.

If all goes well (or not) I'll post the results if you're interested.
 
before you order parts i would suggest just doing a last minute compatability check. you know the simple things like:
-cpu socket matches mobo socket
-type of ram and # channels required by mobo
-ram compatability with mobo. usually a list. i never had any problems though.
-power connectors required by video card and motherboard are provided on the power supply.
you know.... all the basics.

i do the same thing before i purchase the parts i spent weeks picking out. think of it as a measure twice cut once sort of deal. probably not required but better safe than.... oh crap this doesnt fit. i doubt you have any problems though.

---

it definitely is big at 24x24x9 inches. my old computer was in a mid tower about half the volume and i can definitely notice a huge difference in temps even with newer, hotter running hardware. you probably could fit your monitor inside now that you mention it.

this photo is old ....and actually clean.... but its good at showing scale! i now have a bunch of other crap on the desk including a ps2, a ps3 controller charger and a ps3 motion controller charger. as you can see i end up using the pc case as a shelf quite often...i never intend to but it just accumulates items like a magnet.

2w57skj.jpg
 

ck2k4

Honorable
May 10, 2013
6
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10,510
Now that could easily be normal size computer / monitor on a tiny desk with a toy keyboard and mouse.
*edit* It's the giant cable to the keyboard that gives it away ;) lol

Good point about checking compatibility, I'm quite sure the cpu and ram will fit on the board, I'll make sure to check the other things like power connectors though before ordering anything.

By the way would you install the new operating system before or after putting all of the new hardware together, I assumed it would be after but if I were to Install the OS and drivers first it might be a case of plug and play with the hardware?