News Upgrading and Testing the Steam Deck's SSD

[Admin]

The Steam Deck comes with a base configuration offering just 64GB of eMMC storage, with upgraded models providing 256GB and 512GB SSDs. We've tested a collection of M.2 2230 SSDs that are all 1TB or 2TB in capacity and checked SSD performance on the Steam Deck.

Upgrading and Testing the Steam Deck's SSD : Read more

 

[ezst036]

Valve's Steam Deck has done more for the world of handheld PC gaming than perhaps any other device in history.

This is looking like it could be a very modest statement. The Steam Deck's influence reach goes far beyond handheld PC gaming.

What Linux needed was for some major OEM to pick up the OS and run with it. Valve isn't a Dell, that's true, but they are definitely a visible player out there. By making Linux a first-class citizen in the gaming world and by doing it on a handheld, not only did Valve fulfill that need for an OEM introduction, but they've made gaming better on Linux than it is on Apple Macintosh computers.
The big question I think is if Ayaneo ever completes it's announced move to its own Linux based OS for its gaming handhelds. If Ayaneo does that, others will also likely do the same. (yes, I know Dell offers Linux, but only if you dig and dig and dig for it. It's not a prime offering.)

How does this sentence: "Valve's Steam Deck has done more for the world of handheld PC gaming than perhaps any other device in history." get re-written if Valve successfully moves the entire segment of handheld PC gaming off Windows and into Linux? Yes, if that does indeed happen, that sentence is woefully underestimated. Valve will have moved a significant segment of the gaming industry as a whole off of Windows and into Linux. Just like that. Done. That is more like what could potentially be happening here.

Windows does not do well on small screens. We already saw that on cellphones. Handhelds are bigger, yes, but not really big enough for how the UI was designed. If Ayaneo follows, and others begin a cascade effect, what you have is a major shift in the industry as a whole, not merely just handheld PC gaming.

(I know, those are some big "if's". Ayaneo could change their mind and kill AyaneoOS, others could simply not follow. But Linux gives these hardware providers a unique opportunity for vastly more customized products, something they will have a hard time resisting. And they avoid the Windows tax on top of it. They can make their products cheaper and better at the same time.)

 

[wiscovitch]

You could setup a steam cache server to attempt to mitigate public internet impact...Also could hook it up to a dock with ethernet to handle WiFi impacts as well. Otherwise enjoyed it, I upgraded mine to an Inland TN436 a few months back and that with a 1TB SD card I'm set for a while (Famous last words)

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

This is looking like it could be a very modest statement. The Steam Deck's influence reach goes far beyond handheld PC gaming.

What Linux needed was for some major OEM to pick up the OS and run with it. Valve isn't a Dell, that's true, but they are definitely a visible player out there. By making Linux a first-class citizen in the gaming world and by doing it on a handheld, not only did Valve fulfill that need for an OEM introduction, but they've made gaming better on Linux than it is on Apple Macintosh computers.
The big question I think is if Ayaneo ever completes it's announced move to its own Linux based OS for its gaming handhelds. If Ayaneo does that, others will also likely do the same. (yes, I know Dell offers Linux, but only if you dig and dig and dig for it. It's not a prime offering.)

How does this sentence: "Valve's Steam Deck has done more for the world of handheld PC gaming than perhaps any other device in history." get re-written if Valve successfully moves the entire segment of handheld PC gaming off Windows and into Linux? Yes, if that does indeed happen, that sentence is woefully underestimated. Valve will have moved a significant segment of the gaming industry as a whole off of Windows and into Linux. Just like that. Done. That is more like what could potentially be happening here.

Windows does not do well on small screens. We already saw that on cellphones. Handhelds are bigger, yes, but not really big enough for how the UI was designed. If Ayaneo follows, and others begin a cascade effect, what you have is a major shift in the industry as a whole, not merely just handheld PC gaming.

(I know, those are some big "if's". Ayaneo could change their mind and kill AyaneoOS, others could simply not follow. But Linux gives these hardware providers a unique opportunity for vastly more customized products, something they will have a hard time resisting. And they avoid the Windows tax on top of it. They can make their products cheaper and better at the same time.)

It could happen. It very likely won't. Because SteamOS is still doing the "running Windows games on Linux" translation for most games. Almost no one bothers to make native Linux versions of games, not even Valve (who has done more than most).

Has the use of a Linux-derived OS on PlayStation done anything to move gaming to Linux? In a word: No. And the PS4 was using a FreeBSD based OS way back in 2013. That's ten years, still nothing happened. Because you still end up needing to port the software between various systems.

The Windows tax you speak of is also largely meaningless for system builders. Big OEMs probably pay in the $20 range for licenses. Small system integrators just pass the cost on to the customer. Ultimately, it's probably a $100 difference in total system cost, at most.

So for everyone who buys a prebuilt, which means they can't be bothered to assemble a PC on their own (for time or money reasons, probably, though skill is another reason), what's the chance that they're going to be willing to ditch Windows and shift to Linux to save $100? Because they could ditch prebuilts and go the DIY route and potentially save $300 or more, depending on the hardware. In other words, it's close to zero chance.

There's little "unique opportunity for vastly more customized products" as well. Linux support of hardware devices isn't as good as Windows, generally speaking, at least for mainstream users (see the underwhelming numbers from the TN446 compared to TN436 in this article for just one example). They would have to spend time creating their own custom applications and utilities under Linux as well, which contrary to what you say I think is something they will easily resist doing.

Bottom line: I've used Linux on and off for decades. (I first installed it on a 486 in college, and I did plenty of my CS courses on Linux/Unix systems.) For over 30 years, people have been talking about Linux taking over. In the server space, it competes pretty well. For home use? It's still a very smaller percentage of all systems.

 

[Amdlova]

Missed batery life of the device...

 

[DiHydro]

You could setup a steam cache server to attempt to mitigate public internet impact...Also could hook it up to a dock with ethernet to handle WiFi impacts as well. Otherwise enjoyed it, I upgraded mine to an Inland TN436 a few months back and that with a 1TB SD card I'm set for a while (Famous last words)

Yes, USB C to Ethernet adapters work really well. I used one to download many bigger games at full speed. A dock is even better as it gives power as well.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Hmm, effectively zero difference between the NVMe drives, like we know from EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE on M.2 drives when it comes to OS and game loading times, and didn't include the single most important benchmark: battery life.

It's a fluff piece.

 

[HideOut]

They should call the upgrades "SSD upgrades by apple" the rediculous fees they are charging.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Sadly it's a standard practice that would be great if it were outlawed, like the $100 per 128GB they charge for phones and tablets.

 

[palladin9479]

This is looking like it could be a very modest statement. The Steam Deck's influence reach goes far beyond handheld PC gaming.

What Linux needed was for some major OEM to pick up the OS and run with it. Valve isn't a Dell, that's true, but they are definitely a visible player out there. By making Linux a first-class citizen in the gaming world and by doing it on a handheld, not only did Valve fulfill that need for an OEM introduction, but they've made gaming better on Linux than it is on Apple Macintosh computers.
The big question I think is if Ayaneo ever completes it's announced move to its own Linux based OS for its gaming handhelds. If Ayaneo does that, others will also likely do the same. (yes, I know Dell offers Linux, but only if you dig and dig and dig for it. It's not a prime offering.)

How does this sentence: "Valve's Steam Deck has done more for the world of handheld PC gaming than perhaps any other device in history." get re-written if Valve successfully moves the entire segment of handheld PC gaming off Windows and into Linux? Yes, if that does indeed happen, that sentence is woefully underestimated. Valve will have moved a significant segment of the gaming industry as a whole off of Windows and into Linux. Just like that. Done. That is more like what could potentially be happening here.

Windows does not do well on small screens. We already saw that on cellphones. Handhelds are bigger, yes, but not really big enough for how the UI was designed. If Ayaneo follows, and others begin a cascade effect, what you have is a major shift in the industry as a whole, not merely just handheld PC gaming.

(I know, those are some big "if's". Ayaneo could change their mind and kill AyaneoOS, others could simply not follow. But Linux gives these hardware providers a unique opportunity for vastly more customized products, something they will have a hard time resisting. And they avoid the Windows tax on top of it. They can make their products cheaper and better at the same time.)

As Jarred has mentioned, the world isn't going to switch to Linux desktop anytime in the foreseeable future. Valve's biggest contribution isn't so much the Steam Deck, but the massive development and maintenance of the Proton compatibility software that enables Windows programs to run well on Linux. The Steam Deck just provides an amazing platform to display how good that software has become.

 

[mitch074]

The world may not switch, but the very fact that game makers now support Proton and Steam Deck as a platform means that it's noticeable. On top of that, said support has been reported by many game makers to be damn right EASY - as in, half a day to a couple of day to validate the platform.
This has one huge consequence, though : when (not if) Microsoft forces game install to go through the Windows Store, Valve will retain freedom of platform with SteamOS - and that will be a threat large enough for Microsoft to reconsider, because users will be given a choice:

• upgrade to Windows 12+, lose your Steam library
• switch to SteamOS, keep your Steam library

Considering the low cost of supporting SteamOS, how many game published will support both a locked Windows system and Steam OS ?

 

[evdjj3j]

You could setup a steam cache server to attempt to mitigate public internet impact...Also could hook it up to a dock with ethernet to handle WiFi impacts as well. Otherwise enjoyed it, I upgraded mine to an Inland TN436 a few months back and that with a 1TB SD card I'm set for a while (Famous last words)

Doesn't Steam verify the files online even when they are installed from a local source? That's been my experience.

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

Hmm, effectively zero difference between the NVMe drives, like we know from EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE on M.2 drives when it comes to OS and game loading times, and didn't include the single most important benchmark: battery life.

It's a fluff piece.

It's hardly a fluff piece. There were a lot of hours of testing put into this. Just because you don't see that in the end results doesn't mean there aren't differences between the drives. There aren't major differences under SteamOS on the Steam Deck, but that's a big part of the story.

We'll have the separate SSD reviews up, with testing under Windows. I can assure you that there are big differences there between the 2TB QLC, 1TB TLC, and 1TB "slow TLC" drives. The TN436 was already reviewed under Windows, and we gave it a rather poor score: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/inland-tn436-ssd-review It's interesting that in the Steam Deck, a slow drive (both 2TB drives can be equally slow under Windows) doesn't end up mattering too much, because the use case and platform aren't designed around pure speed.

It took a lot of time already to run the tests, and adding battery life testing gets to be problematic. If you're draining the battery fully each time (hours of time taken), you need a test that represents a "normal gaming workload" for the Steam Deck. Even then, you'll discover that batteries change over time and so if I tested with the 64GB eMMC first, then the other seven drives, and then went back to the eMMC, I might see a difference of several percent. Do we run each SSD test with battery life several times, in a serpentine testing pattern (ie: drives 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 then 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1)? Even more time!

We'll have full power numbers in our drive reviews. We couldn't collect power use of the drives on the Steam Deck for obvious reasons (the interposer wouldn't fit). We may look at going back and retesting with some other workload and draining the battery 20% each time to interpolate an overall estimate. I'm not keen to do that, but if there's enough interest from people that actually care about the Steam Deck, we'll see.

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

The world may not switch, but the very fact that game makers now support Proton and Steam Deck as a platform means that it's noticeable. On top of that, said support has been reported by many game makers to be damn right EASY - as in, half a day to a couple of day to validate the platform.
This has one huge consequence, though : when (not if) Microsoft forces game install to go through the Windows Store, Valve will retain freedom of platform with SteamOS - and that will be a threat large enough for Microsoft to reconsider, because users will be given a choice:

• upgrade to Windows 12+, lose your Steam library
• switch to SteamOS, keep your Steam library

Considering the low cost of supporting SteamOS, how many game published will support both a locked Windows system and Steam OS ?

Nope. I call bunk. Microsoft will never manage to get game developers to opt for the Windows Store. Even Microsoft has started releasing it's first party games (i.e. Forza Horizon 5, Gears 5, and others) on Steam. There was a brief time where "Published by MS" games for PC were only available on the Windows Store. It's such a bad experience that it walked back.

To put it bluntly, out of all the digital PC game storefronts, Microsoft makes the worst option. Steam is the best option. I'd put Epic probably second, then GOG Galaxy, Ubisoft Connect, EA, and finally everything else (Rockstar, etc.) The Windows Store also has terrible download speeds compared to other services, which is ironic as MS runs Azure and should have loads of bandwidth — my Windows Updates don't seem to throttle as badly, but then maybe they're just not tens of gigabytes of data.

With a gigabit internet connection, updating a new installation of Flight Simulator as an example is literally a two or three hour process. I just walk away and find something else to do if I need to reinstall MSFS. Through Steam, it's the same story, because you have to download most of the content through MS — only the base ~5GB or something comes from Steam.

Valve originally created the Steambox idea as well as SteamOS for precisely the reasons you suggest. It was worried MS would take the "walled garden" approach of Apple's App Store and the Google Play Store. But what works on smartphones doesn't fly on PC. The MS Store was and is a terrible experience. I would never recommend buying a game there, if it's available through any other option.

 

[mitch074]

Nope. I call bunk. Microsoft will never manage to get game developers to opt for the Windows Store. Even Microsoft has started releasing it's first party games (i.e. Forza Horizon 5, Gears 5, and others) on Steam. There was a brief time where "Published by MS" games for PC were only available on the Windows Store. It's such a bad experience that it walked back.

To put it bluntly, out of all the digital PC game storefronts, Microsoft makes the worst option. Steam is the best option. I'd put Epic probably second, then GOG Galaxy, Ubisoft Connect, EA, and finally everything else (Rockstar, etc.) The Windows Store also has terrible download speeds compared to other services, which is ironic as MS runs Azure and should have loads of bandwidth — my Windows Updates don't seem to throttle as badly, but then maybe they're just not tens of gigabytes of data.

With a gigabit internet connection, updating a new installation of Flight Simulator as an example is literally a two or three hour process. I just walk away and find something else to do if I need to reinstall MSFS. Through Steam, it's the same story, because you have to download most of the content through MS — only the base ~5GB or something comes from Steam.

Valve originally created the Steambox idea as well as SteamOS for precisely the reasons you suggest. It was worried MS would take the "walled garden" approach of Apple's App Store and the Google Play Store. But what works on smartphones doesn't fly on PC. The MS Store was and is a terrible experience. I would never recommend buying a game there, if it's available through any other option.

When Microsoft pushed IE4 as the best browser and rapid-fire released up to IE6, were they the bestest best internet browser ? No. They still got 96% of the market, and kept it locked down until it crumbled under the weight of the iloveyou/chernobyl bug right when Mozilla released the RC of Firefox 1.0.
I remember, in all universities and IT services, techies were sticking notes saying "don't use the blue E, click on the red fox to access Internet". And most banking sites, several high profile websites etc. didn't work on
Firefox and made a mad scramble to increase their support. That fired a mad dash to standard compliance and forced Microsoft to pullout IE7, which was nothing more than a very delayed bug fix for IE6.

All that to say that Microsoft may not have the best store, but if people HAVE to register a Microsoft account, then MUST install their software through Windows Store, and they don't find Steam (because Microsoft's rules about in-app buying will make it unfeasible to have stores installed through their store), they will buy their games through the Windows Store, not jump through te extra hoop to install non-store apps, then install Steam, then install their games - Netscape Communicator was the complete package and worked rather well, but most users clicked on the blue "e" because it was here, and everybody told them "it's the Internet".

Gabe Newell started his career at Microsoft; I day say he knows quite a bit better than you or I what Microsoft will do to stifle competition, if he's been pushing for "alternate OS" PC gaming for more than a decade, there's probably a reason.

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

When Microsoft pushed IE4 as the best browser and rapid-fire released up to IE6, were they the bestest best internet browser ? No. They still got 96% of the market, and kept it locked down until it crumbled under the weight of the iloveyou/chernobyl bug right when Mozilla released the RC of Firefox 1.0.
I remember, in all universities and IT services, techies were sticking notes saying "don't use the blue E, click on the red fox to access Internet". And most banking sites, several high profile websites etc. didn't work on
Firefox and made a mad scramble to increase their support. That fired a mad dash to standard compliance and forced Microsoft to pullout IE7, which was nothing more than a very delayed bug fix for IE6.

All that to say that Microsoft may not have the best store, but if people HAVE to register a Microsoft account, then MUST install their software through Windows Store, and they don't find Steam (because Microsoft's rules about in-app buying will make it unfeasible to have stores installed through their store), they will buy their games through the Windows Store, not jump through te extra hoop to install non-store apps, then install Steam, then install their games - Netscape Communicator was the complete package and worked rather well, but most users clicked on the blue "e" because it was here, and everybody told them "it's the Internet".

Gabe Newell started his career at Microsoft; I day say he knows quite a bit better than you or I what Microsoft will do to stifle competition, if he's been pushing for "alternate OS" PC gaming for more than a decade, there's probably a reason.

I don't doubt that MS would like to have more control over apps and such, but again, it will never fly with Windows users. The instant MS tries to say "all new apps for Windows 12" or whatever need to come through the store, users and businesses will both revolt. MS started trying to move that direction with Windows 8. It totally flopped. Even today, where there are quite a few apps on the MS Store, and some of them are even useful, I rarely find anything where I need to get the MS Store version. The Win32 API is just too ubiquitous to ever fully leave it behind. Users don't want to!

It's like when Intel tried to shift the market to 64-bit with Itanium. AMD64 ultimately won out, not because it was universally superior (though it probably was, as IA64 hardware never reached its supposed potential), but because it was fully x86 compatible. Even today, two decades after x86-64 Athlon and Opteron chips first began shipping, people still regularly use a lot of software that only needs 32-bit. Less bits to move across the bus means better efficiency, and x86 is simply ubiquitous. (The only thing likely to successfully displace x86 will be some variant of the Arm instruction set, I suspect.)

 

[palladin9479]

All that to say that Microsoft may not have the best store, but if people HAVE to register a Microsoft account, then MUST install their software through Windows Store, and they don't find Steam (because Microsoft's rules about in-app buying will make it unfeasible to have stores installed through their store), they will buy their games through the Windows Store, not jump through te extra hoop to install non-store apps, then install Steam, then install their games - Netscape Communicator was the complete package and worked rather well, but most users clicked on the blue "e" because it was here, and everybody told them "it's the Internet".

Ehh.. who said anything about having to have a MS account? That is an absolute dead on arrival condition for Corporate IT, which manages their own IDP architecture and represents the bulk of Microsoft's revenue. That is the reason that every version of Windows has some sort of "I have my own ID" option or method, even if they attempt to hide it behind a splash screen.

 

[mitch074]

Ehh.. who said anything about having to have a MS account? That is an absolute dead on arrival condition for Corporate IT, which manages their own IDP architecture and represents the bulk of Microsoft's revenue. That is the reason that every version of Windows has some sort of "I have my own ID" option or method, even if they attempt to hide it behind a splash screen.

Yeah - except that Microsoft is really pushing for it, and are actually making it harder and harder to manage a domain with accounts that aren't registered somewhat with the Microsoft cloud... So, the "it won't fly" is "it's already taking off the ground".

 

[mitch074]

I don't doubt that MS would like to have more control over apps and such, but again, it will never fly with Windows users. The instant MS tries to say "all new apps for Windows 12" or whatever need to come through the store, users and businesses will both revolt. MS started trying to move that direction with Windows 8. It totally flopped. Even today, where there are quite a few apps on the MS Store, and some of them are even useful, I rarely find anything where I need to get the MS Store version. The Win32 API is just too ubiquitous to ever fully leave it behind. Users don't want to!

It's like when Intel tried to shift the market to 64-bit with Itanium. AMD64 ultimately won out, not because it was universally superior (though it probably was, as IA64 hardware never reached its supposed potential), but because it was fully x86 compatible. Even today, two decades after x86-64 Athlon and Opteron chips first began shipping, people still regularly use a lot of software that only needs 32-bit. Less bits to move across the bus means better efficiency, and x86 is simply ubiquitous. (The only thing likely to successfully displace x86 will be some variant of the Arm instruction set, I suspect.)

That's why they're trying to be more subtle now, by pushing little by little; and Windows 11 is the next step, by forcing a full hardware upgrade, people NEED to upgrade their hardware, and to boot Windows 11 Home you NEED a Microsoft account if you don't know the tricks to bypass it - "what the heck, I'll create a dummy MS account and be done with it".
And you've already lost - because 9 out of 10 users will then reuse that "dummy" account to access Skype, and Teams, and Outlook, and Office, and then "what the heck, I'll buy the Teams Essential subscription", and then "ah, there's a promotion on Halo the Whatever collection"...
And in 5 years, half your games will be on the Windows Store, and Windows 13 will come out with the "security" restriction that you can't use 3rd-party installers (you'll need the "pro dev" Windows edition for that, $100 more, must be unlocked with your MS account, no rebate)... "Ah, nevermind Steam, the most recent game on it is 5 years old anyway, I'll reinstall it on my retro PC when I come around to that" (meaning, never)...
And you've lost.
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
...
Except if you have a dual boot with Linux+Steam. Epic, Ubisoft etc. don't have that fallback for now.

Note about Itanium : it is NOT the same, as when Intel tried to push the Itanium they failed on 2 fronts:

• Itanium was a terrible platform with non-existant backward compatibility (meaning it sucked with both its own and with older software) while Windows 13 will still run store-bought Windows software,
• The "non Intel x86" competition was still somewhat thriving when official win32/win64-compatible OSes are pretty much out of the picture since OS/2 went the way of the dodo.

 

[palladin9479]

Yeah - except that Microsoft is really pushing for it, and are actually making it harder and harder to manage a domain with accounts that aren't registered somewhat with the Microsoft cloud... So, the "it won't fly" is "it's already taking off the ground".

Yeah no, it's not hard to have a Windows installation not require a MS account and as I mentioned enterprise customers have their own IDPs.

From Toms

How to Install Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account

Maintain only a local account on your Windows 11 PC.

www.tomshardware.com

And here is the thing, the entire reason this works is because Windows 11 Enterprise already comes with this option turned on and can easily be installed without needing a MS account or any modification. What all those janky "bypass" methods are doing is telling the Out Of the Box Experience (OOBE) wizard to act like it's an Enterprise install instead of a Home or Pro install. As long as MS has Enterprise customers, this will continue to be an option. The Toms article goes over how to use Rufus to have the OOBE wizard set to BypassNRO mode by default. It's really just a single registry entry that Home/Pro don't set by default while Enterprise has.

reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\OOBE /v BypassNRO /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

That's why they're trying to be more subtle now, by pushing little by little; and Windows 11 is the next step, by forcing a full hardware upgrade, people NEED to upgrade their hardware, and to boot Windows 11 Home you NEED a Microsoft account if you don't know the tricks to bypass it - "what the heck, I'll create a dummy MS account and be done with it".
And you've already lost - because 9 out of 10 users will then reuse that "dummy" account to access Skype, and Teams, and Outlook, and Office, and then "what the heck, I'll buy the Teams Essential subscription", and then "ah, there's a promotion on Halo the Whatever collection"...
And in 5 years, half your games will be on the Windows Store, and Windows 13 will come out with the "security" restriction that you can't use 3rd-party installers (you'll need the "pro dev" Windows edition for that, $100 more, must be unlocked with your MS account, no rebate)... "Ah, nevermind Steam, the most recent game on it is 5 years old anyway, I'll reinstall it on my retro PC when I come around to that" (meaning, never)...
And you've lost.
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
...
Except if you have a dual boot with Linux+Steam. Epic, Ubisoft etc. don't have that fallback for now.

Note about Itanium : it is NOT the same, as when Intel tried to push the Itanium they failed on 2 fronts:

• Itanium was a terrible platform with non-existant backward compatibility (meaning it sucked with both its own and with older software) while Windows 13 will still run store-bought Windows software,
• The "non Intel x86" competition was still somewhat thriving when official win32/win64-compatible OSes are pretty much out of the picture since OS/2 went the way of the dodo.

That’s a laughable example, because Itaniim had x86 emulation that worked — just not as fast as a real x86 chip. You honestly think ditching all non-Store apps with your hypothetical Windows 13 would be less of a problem? Sorry but no.

Eliminating non-Store apps would be lunacy. It could actually be the impetus for people and businesses to switch to Linux. And Microsoft knows this, which is why it already walked back after Windows 8.

App stores work on smartphones because there was never anything else. But for a full PC experience, people really don’t want the walled garden approach. Notice that Apple doesn’t do the fully locked down App Store approach on its MacBooks and desktops either. If Apple can’t get away with it, no one will.

 

[mitch074]

That’s a laughable example, because Itaniim had x86 emulation that worked — just not as fast as a real x86 chip. You honestly think ditching all non-Store apps with your hypothetical Windows 13 would be less of a problem? Sorry but no.

Eliminating non-Store apps would be lunacy. It could actually be the impetus for people and businesses to switch to Linux. And Microsoft knows this, which is why it already walked back after Windows 8.

App stores work on smartphones because there was never anything else. But for a full PC experience, people really don’t want the walled garden approach. Notice that Apple doesn’t do the fully locked down App Store approach on its MacBooks and desktops either. If Apple can’t get away with it, no one will.

They don't... Yet. And compared with x86-64, or Motorola 68k etc., Itanium's backward compatibility was crap - a 200 MHz 64-bit processor running like a 486? What a joke...
Microsoft buying all those game studios and saying "no exclusive for 10 years" means juste that - in 10 years, you'll have to get your games on the Windows store, then there will be the "free" Windows version with a single store ($100 less than "Home", that will then be scrapped)...
Yeah, they play the long game : they missed out on buying id Software back when Doom was installed on more machines than Windows 95, they crapped out on the Internet lockdown they had almost managed with IE6, they got whammed with AD/CIFS, Google ate their breakfast on search and adverts...
They will have their store, and people will use it, and it will take 15 years - but then, there will be only one.

 

[mitch074]

Yeah no, it's not hard to have a Windows installation not require a MS account and as I mentioned enterprise customers have their own IDPs.

From Toms

How to Install Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account

Maintain only a local account on your Windows 11 PC.

www.tomshardware.com

And here is the thing, the entire reason this works is because Windows 11 Enterprise already comes with this option turned on and can easily be installed without needing a MS account or any modification. What all those janky "bypass" methods are doing is telling the Out Of the Box Experience (OOBE) wizard to act like it's an Enterprise install instead of a Home or Pro install. As long as MS has Enterprise customers, this will continue to be an option. The Toms article goes over how to use Rufus to have the OOBE wizard set to BypassNRO mode by default. It's really just a single registry entry that Home/Pro don't set by default while Enterprise has.

Yeah - Ask Kevin or aunt Marge to do that. Also, these work for now, they may not work with e.g. 24h1. As for Enterprise, I wouldn't be surprised if SMEs versions of AD became "cloud hybrid" or "cloud only" in the next few years - it already started.
Long. Game.

 

[palladin9479]

Yeah - Ask Kevin or aunt Marge to do that. Also, these work for now, they may not work with e.g. 24h1. As for Enterprise, I wouldn't be surprised if SMEs versions of AD became "cloud hybrid" or "cloud only" in the next few years - it already started.
Long. Game.

They will always work as long as there is an Enterprise edition of that version of windows. Cloud = just another mans datacenter, no actual technology changes happen, you just shift the burden to another set of people.

Hate to be that "but actually" guy, but actually Windows 10/11 both install perfectly fine without ever requiring any account details. What is asking for those accounts is something called Out Of the Box Experience (OOBE), it's a wizard responsible for setting up the system on the first run. Since the people that pay for Enterprise licenses do not have users doing end point management, every version must have an OOBE mode that allows for this. The only thing these "workarounds" are doing is changing the OOBE mode to work the same as Enterprise customers.

MS already has a "cloud" version of AD called AzureAD, it's an IDentity Provider (IDP) that has stuff you can setup onprem/local that links your AD servers to Azure for seamless authentication. This is how Office365, MS Team, Sharepoint Online and various other MS products work. Of course this is just one IDP and many places now end up supporting multiple like Okta. This is what I mean when I said IDP Architecture, different products, very expensive products don't support every IDP. One of our financial products is provided as a SaaS solution and they do not use AzureAD, licensing this product costs several million USD per year.

And just to break your brain even further, there is something called Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI). This is where the end point is just a WYSE client or web browser that connects to a portal and then spins up a new VM based on predefined profiles and application stacks. It's containerization for desktops, meaning every time a user logs in they get a brand new fresh install of Windows with all their required applications installed and patched to the latest. When they log out that instance is destroyed with only their profile being persisted. This is where those custom OOBE settings really come into play because there is absolutely no way that "enter MS account" will work with that kind of end point architecture.

 

[cyrusfox]

Where is the sn740? I got a pair (2x2tb) for around $130 each, one of the best 2230 drives on the market and very efficient, pity its not part of this lineup.

I got my WD sn740 on aliexpress which was significantly cheaper than what I could find on amazon or ebay at the time (Took 2 weeks, came overpacked with latest firmware- Manufacture date June 1 2023).

Results on PC, before I put in CFeB adapter:

The SN740 is the successor to the sn530 which was the most efficient and fastest 2230 PCIe gen 3 drive. This is the only PCIe gen 4 2230 I have tested so far, but WD was more efficient and faster when I compared gen 3 2230 drives, I haven't seen a solid review of the Micron 2400/2450 to compare the sn740 to, but as I said both the sn520/530 beat up the Micron 2100 series soundly. But with a 2tb 2400 being available for $128, I might want to give it a try.

The problem with all of these drives in this review is they are all from third party SSD manufacturers, I mean they did not make the nand, but they are buying both controller and NAND from others and creating a product. They can make very good drives but they are not going to have the bleeding edge in either speed or efficiency that you can find, but they will fill more niche products (2230 for instance). The big boys seem to primarily make 2230 for OEM though, hence why availability is always a little spotty.

The only manufacturers of NAND currently are - Samsung, Hynix/Solidigm, WD/Kioxia, Micron & YMTC (Have not seen them market a drive in 2230 but someone else is using there flash).