Upgrading to a dedicated graphics card

[Pizzamaker5559]

I just bought a new desktop and was wondering about upgrading the graphics card.
My computer is an AMD phenom quad core 960T Processor with 8Gb of RAM.
My current graphics card is an ATI Radeon HD 4200 and I'm using 1600x900 resolution.
I'm only looking to spend around $100, and I'd like to be able to play BF:BC2, MW2, and maybe BF3 after it comes out.
I've been looking on newegg.com and here is basically what I've narrowed my search down to:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=geforce%20450&page=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=48|14-121-397^14-121-397-TS%2C14-150-540^14-150-540-TS%2C14-102-873^14-102-873-TS%2C14-500-194^14-500-194-TS%2C14-130-663^14-130-663-TS

Which would you recommend that I get? or if not, what would you recommend?(keep in mind $100 or so price range)
Thanks

 

[rockyjohn]

Uhm... Actually, it's not about adding the rails together, but just read at the power it can give per rail. A single GTX460 uses 2x 6pin power connectors; the 6pin are rated for 75W each, so the GTX460 should draw around 150W. That divided by 12V is 12.5A and per 6pin is 6.25A. The Antec 380 has on 1 of it's rails 17A and the other is 15A. Either one tan handle a single GTX460 with Amps to spare on HDDs or even DVDRWs (which need like 2A if I recall correctly). Besides, I don't recall that PSU's have shared rails between the 3.3v, 5v and 12v rails; are you totally sure about that one?!

You are missing the point. The rate the manufactureres' state for each leg is the maximum that leg can deliver - but that total is not necessarily available when other legs are also drawing power. As a minimum, the total power available to all legs cannot exceed the rated capacity of the PSU. So for the Antec 380 cannot deliver 17a one one leg and 15a on another 12v leg when other components are also using 3.3 and 5v power. Total of all legs cannot exceed 380w.

And the video card power connectors are not the only devices using 12v power - the CPU uses 12v power and the mobo delivers power up to 75w to the video card in addition to what is provided by the power connectors.

Here is the 30 page review of a roundup of GTX cards. This is one of the morst reputable sites on the internet on the subject of video cards and power requirements (they also review power supplies). It shows that most total benchmark systems, running those various cards, operated at a peak load of 300w and based on that they recommended a minimum power supply of 450w to 500w :

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-review/13

 

[-Fran-]

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/PSU/index.php

Cheers!

 

[rockyjohn]

Is that link intended to be relevant to the discussion or prove some point? If so I don't understand how. Please explain.

 

[-Fran-]

It explains how the dual 12V rails work and counters what you said about the Antec not being able to deliver for the GTX460. That's all.

But you were right about the shared 3.3V and 5V rails. 12V rails are another story though.

An interesting off topic though, but sorry for the thread jacking, Pizzamaker

Cheers!

 

[rockyjohn]

First, I never said that the 380w PSU could not deliver the power required for the GTX 460. The article I linked showed that it did have enough power, but that the peak load was too close to the maximum capacity of the PSU and planning to run that close is not good - which is why the article recommened a minimum PSU of 450w to 500w.

What do you mean by 12v rails are another story? The article discusses 12v rails but does not get into discussing 3.3v and 5v rails, nor load sharing between them and the 12v rail. The article is about one rail vs. two rails and does not directly address load sharing between all the rails. It does say however:

"To summarize: The only reason why any power supply is limited to certain graphics cards is simply the total power output of the power supply, "

Exactly the point I have been making. Also note that their statement does not mean the PSU can provide the graphics cards with all its power when some is being used by the 3.3v and 5v legs. It should be obvious that "total" means "total".

And this is not off topic since we are discussing the power requirement needs of Pizzamaker.

 

[-Fran-]

First, I never said that the 380w PSU could not deliver the power required for the GTX 460. The article I linked showed that it did have enough power, but that the peak load was too close to the maximum capacity of the PSU and planning to run that close is not good - which is why the article recommened a minimum PSU of 450w to 500w.

What do you mean by 12v rails are another story? The article discusses 12v rails but does not get into discussing 3.3v and 5v rails, nor load sharing between them and the 12v rail. The article is about one rail vs. two rails and does not directly address load sharing between all the rails. It does say however:

"To summarize: The only reason why any power supply is limited to certain graphics cards is simply the total power output of the power supply, "

Exactly the point I have been making. Also note that their statement does not mean the PSU can provide the graphics cards with all its power when some is being used by the 3.3v and 5v legs. It should be obvious that "total" means "total".

And this is not off topic since we are discussing the power requirement needs of Pizzamaker.

Oh, the 3.3V and 5V shared power was from Wikipedia... It's about ATX 2.x specs, manufacturers and all that jazz

But oh well, if your point was about "being too close", then yes, you might be right. But like you also said, it would not be enough if he would like to do things that could reach the max out put of the PSU (like OC, put a lot of HDDs, put a more powerful CPU -> more TDP, etc), which I doubt he'll be wanting to do with his HP. That's the OP to answer though.

I'll grant you the point anyway. If you have the money (Pizzamaker) for the CM 500W, then go for it. It's always good to have room, I won't ever deny that, otherwise, I'm 100% sure the Antec will deliver what you need.

Cheers!

 

[Pizzamaker5559]

Ok, would you recommend OC? If so, how do you do that? If not, why not?
Just trying to inform myself and since I see we have a couple of differing opinions, I can profit from the conversation...
All this is stuff I've heard about, but never had the equipment to do it.

 

[-Fran-]

It's a Phenom II 960T, that's 125W TDP at 3Ghz. Uhm... If you want to try doing some OC, then forget the Antec, lol. Weird thing is, the HP page states in it's CPU upgrade info: "Max TDP: 95W", WTF XD

Oh well, the OC on your MoBo will depend on it's options. Since it's an HP MoBo, I'd say you'll be very limited inside the BIOS. You could start by taking a look (not chaging stufff yet) in there (the BIOS). When it's booting up, press DEL or the button it tells you to hit "to enter the BIOS menu" or some message like that.

On a side note, I'd say you're good with the stock clocks for now. Once BF3 pops we'll have more info at hand to see if you really need some extra juice, but to do OC, remember to get the CM 500W or better. At those clocks, a 6870 or a GTX460 should be able to stretch their legs close to full and make the "bottleneck" a non-issue.

Cheers!

 

[rockyjohn]

Oh, the 3.3V and 5V shared power was from Wikipedia... It's about ATX 2.x specs, manufacturers and all that jazz

I have no idea what that means. If you are refering to the source of my information for the cited post, that was not my source, It just basic knowledge that the power usage should not exceed the rated power capacity of the PSU and that if one leg is using part of it that part is not available to another leg even if the leg is rated to carry a higher load. Its just like many PSUs have maximum power ratings for the individual 3.3v and 5v legs and another wattage rating for the two of them combined which is less than the sume of the two, meaning you cannot operate both at their stated independend maximmums. Many PSUs with multiple 12v legs, including some higher powered Antec PSUs, have a limit for the total 12v usage that is less than the sum of the individual 12v legs, so you cannot always operate all of them at capacity at the same time. These are just generic issues in the way PSUs are made and are not specific to any specs. Wikipedia might have said the same thing, I don't know. My source is just general reading about power supplies - in reviews and other forum posts.

But oh well, if your point was about "being too close" then...

That was one point but the other was about looking at all the limits affecting PSU power allocating between legs, as again explained in the note above, not just assuming you could add the wattage capacity of multiple 12v lanes together and assuming the PSU would have enough power to deliver it.

 

[-Fran-]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_rail

There's where I confirmed what you said. It's Wikipedia, but I'll give it the benefit of doubt, lol.

Cheers!

 

[haseebkahn3]

HELP ME CHOOSE GPU!!!
I have HP m8200n
Chipset:NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430
Proc:Athlon 64 X2 3.00ghz 6000+ dual core
4gb DDR2 RAM
Also supports PCI Express x16 graphics cards
300WATT Lite-On PSU

 

[-Fran-]

Radeon 6770 or GTS450. Around those will be a great upgrade for you.

Maybe that PSU won't be able to power them, so you should also spare some money for a new PSU.

Cheers!

 

[haseebkahn3]

Radeon 6770 or GTS450. Around those will be a great upgrade for you.

Maybe that PSU won't be able to power them, so you should also spare some money for a new PSU.

Cheers!

I was thinking about about HD6670 due to my low PSU.
What do you say?

 

[-Fran-]

Not a bad call at all IMO, but if you're going to be playing at more than 1680x1050 res, you'll have to turn down quality settings a little in some games. It's a great card, but try to the the GDDR5 version, not the DDR3 one.

Cheers!

 

[rockyjohn]

Haseebkan - you are in the same grey area as the OP. The JohnnyGuru review of the HD 6670 on the benchmark system showed peak power consumption of 242w and he went on to agree with the manufactueres recommendation of a minumum 450w PSU in the average system.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/his-radeon-6770-iceqx-turbo-crossfire-review/5

Lite-on is a recognized brand in many things like optical drives, but not so much in PSUs. What is the make and model of your PSU? Again, in addition to the overall quality of the PSU, an issue is the power provided to the 12v circuit.

 

[Pizzamaker5559]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139028
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371031&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL082511&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL082511-_-EMC-082511-T-_-PowerSupplies-_-17371031-L06C
Just found these great deals online, just want your opinion. Thx
Pizzamaker5559

PS oh, and I found this for a graphics card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133326

 

[rockyjohn]

That is a great price on the GTX 460 but I would not recommend that particular brand. See this previous THG thread:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/303221-33-evga

Here’s a roundup of 9 GTX 460 cards – but the PNY is not included – and it was not in two other other roundups from other reviewers – which might say something:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-roundup-gf104,2714.html

Also see this site for recommend video card brands

http://www.upgradevideocards.com/brands.html

I would recommend this power supply over the ones you listed - for about the same price:

Antec High Current Gamer Series HCG-620 620W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V v2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC - $50 AR with free shipping

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371048

Also you can find a promotional code to get $10 off your first order of $50 or more from newegg at this site - see upper left:

http://www.upgradevideocards.com/index.html

Note that it expires 8/31.

 

[Pizzamaker5559]

Ok, here's my last post in this thread before I select a best answer.
Here's what I got:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127518
as you suggested... and:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371048
as the post that you referred to suggested.
Now, hopefully I can get $60 back in rebates!

 

[Pizzamaker5559]

Best answer selected by Pizzamaker5559.

 

[Mousemonkey]

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey