[SOLVED] UPS recommendation

stiffmeinster

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May 30, 2016
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Hi!

I need help with UPS (Uninterruptible power supply)

Every day we have a blackout, just a sec but it's enough for everything to shut down instantly.

the UPS need to hold 810 Watts.

I don't want to buy a cheap useless thing, I need a good trustable UPS.


At the back, I need 4 slots.

I'm from the EU.
Any idea?
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Your TV actually consumes up to 180W,
specs: https://www.samsung.com/uk/tvs/qled-q7f/QE55Q7FAMTXXU/#specs

Your speakers are 10.6W (main) + 28W (subwoofer) = ~40W,
specs: https://www.samsung.com/us/televisions-home-theater/home-theater/sound-bars/hw-k850-soundbar-w--dolby-atmos-hw-k850-za/#specs

And your PS4 Pro is 165W,
specs: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/explore/ps4/tech-specs/

With that, you're looking at 180W (TV) + 40W (speakers) + 165W (PS4 Pro) = 385W, not 810W.

For 10 mins of runtime and since you'll need at least 5x output sockets, i suggest that you go for the very same UPS as i have in use with 2x of my PCs.

I have two of these in use: CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive),
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD
amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/CYBERPOWER-CP1300EPFCLCD-Line-Interactive-VorabAustauschservice-dt-Software/dp/B0058RVIEC
review: http://softwareboom.wirevalley.com/review-cyberpower-cp1300epfclcd/
video introduction:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IURKCvLJpY

Note 01: despite specs saying UPS has UK sockets, the one in amazon.de has Schuko sockets.
Note 02: at 400W load, CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD has about 9 mins of runtime.

I searched far and wide, read tons of reviews and watched plenty of videos before buying my UPSes. Since i'm all about practicality (e.g 6x output sockets, user replaceable battery), longevity and ease of use, CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPSes were the best option for my needs. And the small footprint of the UPS itself is also a bonus when you don't have lots of free space. While my PC is on idle/web browsing, my UPS runtime is about 35 mins. On full load, my UPS can keep the PC running at about 15 mins or so.
CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPS is also 3rd best UPS of 2019, further reading: https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-uninterrupted-power-supplies

And under the spoiler is combined image of my UPSes, click on spoiler to view.
Top left: After unboxing
Top right: Power-on test
Bottom left: Haswell build UPS in service
Bottom right: Skylake build UPS in service
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
  1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
  2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)
From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: http://www.minutemanups.com/support/pwr_un10.php

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
  1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
  2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
  3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).
Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.

Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.

Good UPS brands to go for are CyberPower, TrippLite and APC. While there are other UPS brands as well, those three are the best out there.
Note: The more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.

Here, i need to know how you calculated the 810W? Also, what hardware are you planning to put behind UPS that you need at least 4x output sockets? 1x PC and 3x monitors? Something else? What's the runtime you're looking to get out of the UPS? under 60 sec? 5 min? 15 min? 30 min? And am i correct when i say that you have Schuko (CEE 7/3 sockets and CEE 7/4 plugs) in use?
 
Last edited:

stiffmeinster

Reputable
May 30, 2016
106
0
4,590
2
When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
  1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
  2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)
From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: http://www.minutemanups.com/support/pwr_un10.php

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
  1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
  2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
  3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).
Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.

Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.

Good UPS brands to go for are CyberPower, TrippLite and APC. While there are other UPS brands as well, those three are the best out there.
Note: The more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.

Here, i need to know how you calculated the 810W? Also, what hardware are you planning to put behind UPS that you need at least 4x output sockets? 1x PC and 3x monitors? Something else? What's the runtime you're looking to get out of the UPS? under 60 sec? 5 min? 15 min? 30 min? And am i correct when i say that you have Schuko (CEE 7/3 sockets and CEE 7/4 plugs) in use?
TV: Samsung qe55q7f 140W: 2 plug, I thought that the TV has 1, but the connect box has 1 too.
ps4 pro 310W: 1 plug
soundbar: Samsung HWK-850: 360W: 2 plug
So I need 5 sockets.
I think 5-10 min run time is good.
The sockets and the plugs look like Schuko (CEE 7/3 and CEE 7/4).
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Your TV actually consumes up to 180W,
specs: https://www.samsung.com/uk/tvs/qled-q7f/QE55Q7FAMTXXU/#specs

Your speakers are 10.6W (main) + 28W (subwoofer) = ~40W,
specs: https://www.samsung.com/us/televisions-home-theater/home-theater/sound-bars/hw-k850-soundbar-w--dolby-atmos-hw-k850-za/#specs

And your PS4 Pro is 165W,
specs: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/explore/ps4/tech-specs/

With that, you're looking at 180W (TV) + 40W (speakers) + 165W (PS4 Pro) = 385W, not 810W.

For 10 mins of runtime and since you'll need at least 5x output sockets, i suggest that you go for the very same UPS as i have in use with 2x of my PCs.

I have two of these in use: CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive),
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD
amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/CYBERPOWER-CP1300EPFCLCD-Line-Interactive-VorabAustauschservice-dt-Software/dp/B0058RVIEC
review: http://softwareboom.wirevalley.com/review-cyberpower-cp1300epfclcd/
video introduction:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IURKCvLJpY

Note 01: despite specs saying UPS has UK sockets, the one in amazon.de has Schuko sockets.
Note 02: at 400W load, CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD has about 9 mins of runtime.

I searched far and wide, read tons of reviews and watched plenty of videos before buying my UPSes. Since i'm all about practicality (e.g 6x output sockets, user replaceable battery), longevity and ease of use, CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPSes were the best option for my needs. And the small footprint of the UPS itself is also a bonus when you don't have lots of free space. While my PC is on idle/web browsing, my UPS runtime is about 35 mins. On full load, my UPS can keep the PC running at about 15 mins or so.
CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPS is also 3rd best UPS of 2019, further reading: https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-uninterrupted-power-supplies

And under the spoiler is combined image of my UPSes, click on spoiler to view.
Top left: After unboxing
Top right: Power-on test
Bottom left: Haswell build UPS in service
Bottom right: Skylake build UPS in service
 

stiffmeinster

Reputable
May 30, 2016
106
0
4,590
2
Your TV actually consumes up to 180W,
specs: https://www.samsung.com/uk/tvs/qled-q7f/QE55Q7FAMTXXU/#specs

Your speakers are 10.6W (main) + 28W (subwoofer) = ~40W,
specs: https://www.samsung.com/us/televisions-home-theater/home-theater/sound-bars/hw-k850-soundbar-w--dolby-atmos-hw-k850-za/#specs

And your PS4 Pro is 165W,
specs: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/explore/ps4/tech-specs/

With that, you're looking at 180W (TV) + 40W (speakers) + 165W (PS4 Pro) = 385W, not 810W.

For 10 mins of runtime and since you'll need at least 5x output sockets, i suggest that you go for the very same UPS as i have in use with 2x of my PCs.

I have two of these in use: CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive),
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD
amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/CYBERPOWER-CP1300EPFCLCD-Line-Interactive-VorabAustauschservice-dt-Software/dp/B0058RVIEC
review: http://softwareboom.wirevalley.com/review-cyberpower-cp1300epfclcd/
video introduction:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IURKCvLJpY

Note 01: despite specs saying UPS has UK sockets, the one in amazon.de has Schuko sockets.
Note 02: at 400W load, CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD has about 9 mins of runtime.

I searched far and wide, read tons of reviews and watched plenty of videos before buying my UPSes. Since i'm all about practicality (e.g 6x output sockets, user replaceable battery), longevity and ease of use, CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPSes were the best option for my needs. And the small footprint of the UPS itself is also a bonus when you don't have lots of free space. While my PC is on idle/web browsing, my UPS runtime is about 35 mins. On full load, my UPS can keep the PC running at about 15 mins or so.
CyberPower PFC Sinewave series UPS is also 3rd best UPS of 2019, further reading: https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-uninterrupted-power-supplies

And under the spoiler is combined image of my UPSes, click on spoiler to view.
Top left: After unboxing
Top right: Power-on test
Bottom left: Haswell build UPS in service
Bottom right: Skylake build UPS in service
If you click ps4 pro on this site : https://www.playstation.com/de-de/explore/ps4/tech-specs/ here they writes Max. 310W .
https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model-power-consumption/7662aa1 here at QE55Q7F 140W.
https://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/2016-soundbar-w-dolby-atmos-hw-k850 here 350W.

I don't really understand this. How can I make sure what is the real max. power comsumption?
 

Aeacus

Glorious
Herald
Here's some clarification:

1) With PS4 Pro, it's my bad, since i had site scripts disabled (NoScript) and i only saw 165W for PS4 Pro. With site scripts enabled, 165W is actually for PS4 while PS4 Pro does consume up to 310W. Sorry about that.

2) For TV and from the site you linked, the 140W is average power consumption while 180W is the max power consumption. Here, i'd consider the max power consumption.

3) And for your speakers, the 350W isn't it's power consumption. Instead, it's: "Total amount of power a home theater system emits through an external speakers, as measured in watts (w)."
Scroll a bit down and you'll see:
Power Consumption
Stand-by Power Consumption (Main) 0.26 W
Stand-by Power Consumption (Subwoofer) 0.45 W
Operating Power Consumption (Main) 10.6 W
Operating Power Consumption (Subwoofer) 28 W
Free Voltage Yes

With these changes, total wattage would be: 310W (PS4 Pro) + 180W (TV) + 40W (speakers) = 530W.
530W would be absolute max your hardware combined can consume, while average power consumption should be around 400W or so.

1300VA/780W UPS i linked above has more than enough wattage to power your hardware even at max load.
With 550W load on UPS, you'll get 6 mins of runtime. 400W load gives 9 mins of runtime.

If you're worried that 1300VA/780W UPS i linked above may not give you enough runtime then there's higher capacity UPS in the same series as well,
CyberPower CP1500EPFCLCD (1500VA/900W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive)
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/cp1500epfclcd-uk
amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/CYBERPOWER-CP1500EPFCLCD-Line-Interactive-VorabAustauschservice-dt-Software/dp/B0059DAN2I

Note 01: despite specs saying UPS has UK sockets, the one in amazon.de again has 6x Schuko sockets.
Note 02: with 550W load on UPS, you'll get 7 mins of runtime. 400W load gives 12 mins of runtime.
 

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