US cities, counties and interstates

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1. What's the largest US city that is not within 10 miles of an
Interstate highway?

2. What's the largest US city that is not the seat of the county
it's in?

Note that question 2 implies that it's only talking about cities
that are within a county. Cities in Alaska (which has no
counties) or independent cities in various other states are not
counted. Parishes in Louisiana are considered to be counties.
Cities that are in more than one county should be considered to
be only in the county where the bulk of its population is. Except
New York, which is coextensive with 5 counties and can be ignored
for this question.

--
Dan Tilque

Disclaimer: These questions are Americo-centric. I apologize in
advance to any non-Americans in whom this post engenders disgust,
revulsion, outrage, loathing, annoyance or any other negative
emotion.
 
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"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com...
>
> 1. What's the largest US city that is not within 10 miles of an
> Interstate highway?

Lynchburg, VA?

Z
 
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DokterZ wrote:

> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> news:10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> 1. What's the largest US city that is not within 10 miles of
>> an Interstate highway?
>
> Lynchburg, VA?

Nope. And Marc's guess of Anchorage is wrong too.

--
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In article <10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com>, dtilque@nwlink.com says...
>
> 1. What's the largest US city that is not within 10 miles of an
> Interstate highway?

Napubentr?

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"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message news:<10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com>...
>
> 2. What's the largest US city that is not the seat of the county
> it's in?

Possibly Long Beach, California, with an approximate population of
475,000. It's in Los Angeles County.

Joshua Kreitzer
gromit82@hotmail.com
 
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Joshua Kreitzer wrote:

> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> news:<10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com>...
>>
>> 2. What's the largest US city that is not the seat of the
>> county it's in?
>
> Possibly Long Beach, California, with an approximate
> population of 475,000. It's in Los Angeles County.

Got it in one.

--
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In article <10jstp3cddh9se7@corp.supernews.com>, dtilque@nwlink.com says...
> DokterZ wrote:
>
> > "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> > news:10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com...
> >>
> >> 1. What's the largest US city that is not within 10 miles of
> >> an Interstate highway?
> >
> > Lynchburg, VA?
>
> Nope. And Marc's guess of Anchorage is wrong too.

How about Mesa, AZ?

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In article <MPG.1ba8493346d53175989a40@netnews.comcast.net>, usenet@MarcDashevsky.com
says...
> In article <10jstp3cddh9se7@corp.supernews.com>, dtilque@nwlink.com says...
> > DokterZ wrote:
> >
> > > "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> > > news:10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com...
> > >>
> > >> 1. What's the largest US city that is not within 10 miles of
> > >> an Interstate highway?
> > >
> > > Lynchburg, VA?
> >
> > Nope. And Marc's guess of Anchorage is wrong too.
>
> How about Mesa, AZ?

Or better . . . Fresno, CA.

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Marc Dashevsky wrote:

> In article <MPG.1ba8493346d53175989a40@netnews.comcast.net>,
> usenet@MarcDashevsky.com says...
>> In article <10jstp3cddh9se7@corp.supernews.com>,
>> dtilque@nwlink.com says...
>>> DokterZ wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. What's the largest US city that is not within 10 miles
>>>>> of an Interstate highway?
>>>>
>>>> Lynchburg, VA?
>>>
>>> Nope. And Marc's guess of Anchorage is wrong too.
>>
>> How about Mesa, AZ?

Doesn't qualify, being only 5 miles or so from I-10.

> Or better . . . Fresno, CA.

Bingo!

--
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Marc Dashevsky writes:
> > How about Mesa, AZ?
>
> Or better . . . Fresno, CA.

Looks like that's it; it's about 30 miles from I-5. (It does have
a freeway connection, but it's a state highway, CA 99, old US 99.)

Mesa is not only smaller than Fresno, it's within about 5 miles of I-10.
--
Mark Brader "A moment's thought would have shown him,
Toronto but a moment is a long time and thought
msb@vex.net is a painful process." -- A. E. Housman
 
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.trivia
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: US cities, counties and interstates


> Joshua Kreitzer wrote:
>
> > "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> > news:<10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com>...
> >>
> >> 2. What's the largest US city that is not the seat of the
> >> county it's in?
> >
> > Possibly Long Beach, California, with an approximate
> > population of 475,000. It's in Los Angeles County.
>
> Got it in one.
>
Yes, there are larger cities which are not county seats (Baltimore,
Washington) but that's because they aren't in a county.

A. Kiker
Spring, TX

> --
> Dan Tilque
>
>
 
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The Kikers wrote:

> From: "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com>
>
>> Joshua Kreitzer wrote:
>>
>>> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
>>> news:<10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com>...
>>>>
>>>> 2. What's the largest US city that is not the seat of the
>>>> county it's in?
>>>
>>> Possibly Long Beach, California, with an approximate
>>> population of 475,000. It's in Los Angeles County.
>>
>> Got it in one.
>>
> Yes, there are larger cities which are not county seats
> (Baltimore, Washington) but that's because they aren't in a
> county.

And if you go back to my original post, you'll find that I
explicitly excluded them from the question.

--
Dan Tilque
 

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"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:10jt5kvbn40so2a@corp.supernews.com...
> Marc Dashevsky wrote:
>
> > In article <MPG.1ba8493346d53175989a40@netnews.comcast.net>,
> > usenet@MarcDashevsky.com says...
> >> In article <10jstp3cddh9se7@corp.supernews.com>,
> >> dtilque@nwlink.com says...
> >>> DokterZ wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. What's the largest US city that is not within 10 miles
> >>>>> of an Interstate highway?
> >>>>
> >>>> Lynchburg, VA?
> >>>
> >>> Nope. And Marc's guess of Anchorage is wrong too.
> >>
> >> How about Mesa, AZ?
>
> Doesn't qualify, being only 5 miles or so from I-10.
>
> > Or better . . . Fresno, CA.
>
> Bingo!
>

What about Honolulu??

According to http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us Honolulu has about 892,000
residents and http://www.fresno.gov puts Fresno at 427,652.

I assume that as Hawaii is an island state there cannot be any interstate
highways??

Simon
 
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In article <chp9sr$1t2$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, dont@bother.com says...
>
> What about Honolulu??
>
> According to http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us Honolulu has about 892,000
> residents and http://www.fresno.gov puts Fresno at 427,652.
>
> I assume that as Hawaii is an island state there cannot be any interstate
> highways??

Alas, logic has betrayed you. The Interstate Highway System is more
about Federal funding and road design criteria than it is about
connections between states. I-H1 passes directly through Honolulu.

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Marc Dashevsky wrote:

> In article <chp9sr$1t2$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
> dont@bother.com says...
>>
>> I assume that as Hawaii is an island state there cannot be
>> any interstate highways??
>
> Alas, logic has betrayed you. The Interstate Highway System
> is more about Federal funding and road design criteria than it
> is about connections between states. I-H1 passes directly
> through Honolulu.

Yes, but it wasn't quite that automatic. Congress had to make a
special provision for Hawaii to get Interstate funding. Cecil
Adams tells the story here:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_129.html

But even outside of Hawaii, Interstates do not have to cross
state boundaries. By my count, there are at least 18 Interstates
that are contained entirely within a single state, not counting
the Hawaii ones. (Note that I'm only talking about 1 and 2 digit
Interstates here.) Then there's I-88 which is in both Illinois
and New York, but does not cross a state border.

--
Dan Tilque
 
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In article <10k0ulgeqqhqmc1@corp.supernews.com>,
"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote:

> But even outside of Hawaii, Interstates do not have to cross
> state boundaries. By my count, there are at least 18 Interstates
> that are contained entirely within a single state, not counting
> the Hawaii ones. (Note that I'm only talking about 1 and 2 digit
> Interstates here.) Then there's I-88 which is in both Illinois
> and New York, but does not cross a state border.
>


Wormhole?

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
 
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Dan Tilque:
> Yes, but it wasn't quite that automatic. Congress had to make a
> special provision for Hawaii to get Interstate funding. ...

Not really surprising, considering that when the system was first
designed <http://www.roadfan.com/47usint.jpg>, Hawaii wasn't a state
and, as far as I know, wasn't close to becoming a state.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Logic is logic. That's all I say."
msb@vex.net -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
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Harold Buck wrote:

> In article <10k0ulgeqqhqmc1@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote:
>
>> Then there's I-
>> 88 which is in both Illinois and New York, but does not cross
>> a state border.
>
> Wormhole?

I think cars are expected to quantum tunnel between Chicago and
Binghamton...

That's not the only Interstate with a gap. Most notorious is the
one in I-95 in New Jersey. That's a bizarre one where the I-95
coming down from the north and that from the south run
more-or-less in parallel for a while, but separated by several
miles and the Delaware River. You have to go on other highways to
get from one to the other. I'm not sure how they managed the
planning on that one.

The only other two gapped Interstates I know of are like I-88
where the two sections are in different parts of the country:
I-76 and I-84.


Jeffrey Turner writes:
> I've been on I-88 in New York. It was built between Albany,
> the state capital, and the district of one of New York's most
> powerful politicians of the time.

From what I've heard, I-99 in PA was a similar boondoggle.

--
Dan Tilque
 
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Dan Tilque:
> That's not the only Interstate with a gap. Most notorious is the
> one in I-95 in New Jersey. That's a bizarre one where the I-95
> coming down from the north and that from the south run
> more-or-less in parallel for a while, but separated by several
> miles and the Delaware River. You have to go on other highways to
> get from one to the other. I'm not sure how they managed the
> planning on that one.

Every time they planned a route, someone shouted Not In My Back Yard
and managed to get it stopped; that's how. There's a long writeup
at <http://www.njfreeways.com/Interstate_95_Gap.html>.

> The only other two gapped Interstates I know of are like I-88
> where the two sections are in different parts of the country:
> I-76 and I-84.

The newest of these is I-86, the upgrade of NY 17 with a short
continuation into Pennsylvania; there was already an I-86 in Idaho.

These basically arose because too few numbers were allocated to
the northern half of the country#, and more of them were needed
than originally planned. Part of this was because highways were
added to the originally planned system. A second reason was that
in addition to the 1- and 2-digit numbers for inter-city Interstates
and the 3-digit numbers for local branches and loops, the original
plan allowed for branches with directional suffix letters, i.e. E
or W on north-south Interstates, N or S on east-west ones. These
could either be long inter-city branches or shorter ones like the
3-digit style.

But later, the policy permitting such numbers was changed and, with
two exceptions%, new numbers were assigned. For shorter branches,
3-digit numbers were used. For example, I-270 in Maryland was
formerly I-70S, and the Frederick-Baltimore section of I-70 was
then I-70N. But longer branches required 1- or 2-digit numbers.
For example, I-76 from Denver to the northeastern corner of Colorado,
and the western I-84 from northern Utah to Portland, OR, were
originally I-80S and I-80N respectively.

The shortage of high even two-digit numbers was already obvious
before they started repeating them, in that I-94 is long enough to
rate a number ending in 0, but none is available for it.

#- This in turn was because of a policy that Interstate and US
highways with the same number could not exist in the same state.
Since their numbered increase in opposite directions, this forced
a gap in Interstate numbers where they cross over, so to speak.
Specifically, I-70 should logically have been numbered I-50 or
I-60 (then I-94 could be 90, 90 could be 80 or 70, etc.); but
US 50 and US 60 run through several of the same states, so that
wasn't allowed.

%- I-35 splits into I-35E and I-35W though Minneapolis / St. Paul and
again through Dallas / Ft. Worth. Unlike the Baltimore/Washington
situation, in these cases the layout is symmetrical enough not to
make it clear that one branch is more naturally designated the main
route, and keeping the old numbering avoided a political decision as
to which city in each pair would get the main route.
--
Mark Brader | "I do have an idea ... based on the quite obvious fact
Toronto | that the number two is ridiculous and can't exist."
msb@vex.net | -- Ben Denison (Isaac Asimov, "The Gods Themselves")

My text in this article is in the public domain.
 
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"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:10k0vb49lm15012@corp.supernews.com...
> The Kikers wrote:
>
> > From: "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com>
> >
> >> Joshua Kreitzer wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:<10jsab5f3l5hte5@corp.supernews.com>...
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. What's the largest US city that is not the seat of the
> >>>> county it's in?
> >>>
> >>> Possibly Long Beach, California, with an approximate
> >>> population of 475,000. It's in Los Angeles County.
> >>
> >> Got it in one.
> >>
> > Yes, there are larger cities which are not county seats
> > (Baltimore, Washington) but that's because they aren't in a
> > county.
>
> And if you go back to my original post, you'll find that I
> explicitly excluded them from the question.
>
> --
> Dan Tilque
>
>
While your post was carefully worded, it never explicitly excluded any
cities.

I was merely pointing out the fact that in very rare cased, a city can lie
outside a county. The concept of city secession from a county or
"independent city" is neither widely known nor widely implemented.

A. Kiker
 
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The Kikers wrote:

> "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> news:10k0vb49lm15012@corp.supernews.com...
>> The Kikers wrote:
>>
>>>>>> 2. What's the largest US city that is not the seat of the
>>>>>> county it's in?
>>>>>
>>> Yes, there are larger cities which are not county seats
>>> (Baltimore, Washington) but that's because they aren't in a
>>> county.
>>
>> And if you go back to my original post, you'll find that I
>> explicitly excluded them from the question.
>>
> While your post was carefully worded, it never explicitly
> excluded any cities.

Well, actually I did. Look at the paragraph after the question
and you will find the following text:

| Note that question 2 implies that it's only talking about
| cities that are within a county. Cities in Alaska (which
| has no counties) or independent cities in various other
| states are not counted.

--
Dan Tilque
 
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"Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:10k52mi5murbp6e@corp.supernews.com...
> The Kikers wrote:
>
> > "Dan Tilque" <dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote in message
> > news:10k0vb49lm15012@corp.supernews.com...
> >> The Kikers wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>> 2. What's the largest US city that is not the seat of the
> >>>>>> county it's in?
> >>>>>
> >>> Yes, there are larger cities which are not county seats
> >>> (Baltimore, Washington) but that's because they aren't in a
> >>> county.
> >>
> >> And if you go back to my original post, you'll find that I
> >> explicitly excluded them from the question.
> >>
> > While your post was carefully worded, it never explicitly
> > excluded any cities.
>
> Well, actually I did. Look at the paragraph after the question
> and you will find the following text:
>
> | Note that question 2 implies that it's only talking about
> | cities that are within a county. Cities in Alaska (which
> | has no counties) or independent cities in various other
> | states are not counted.
>
> --
> Dan Tilque
>
>
Yikes, I sure missed that! Sorry Dan-o
 
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In article <10k2b98p50urf6c@corp.supernews.com>, Dan Tilque
<dtilque@nwlink.com> wrote:

> Jeffrey Turner writes:
> > I've been on I-88 in New York. It was built between Albany,
> > the state capital, and the district of one of New York's most
> > powerful politicians of the time.

> From what I've heard, I-99 in PA was a similar boondoggle.

Except I don't think I-88 had its number specifically written into the
legislation for the route.

I-99 was...even though 99 is completely out of the numbering sequence
for north-south interstates. (IMHO, it warrants a three-digit number.)

Of course, then there are cases like I-540 in Raleigh, NC, where the
design of the road will make it lose its number. Somewhere in the next
10-20 years, it will become a complete loop around the north of
Raleigh, and the number will change to I-640.

--
Dustin Emhart
c.fred@cox.net
 
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In article <120920041724478363%c.fred@cox.net>,
Dustin Emhart <c.fred@cox.net> wrote:

> Of course, then there are cases like I-540 in Raleigh, NC, where the
> design of the road will make it lose its number. Somewhere in the next
> 10-20 years, it will become a complete loop around the north of
> Raleigh, and the number will change to I-640.


Am I the only one who finds it odd to have a loop around a city with a
single number (e.g., I-465 around Indianapolis)? Saying "east on 465" is
meaningless unless you put in context whether you mean the *north* part
of the loop or the *south* part of the loop.

There's a loop around the Twin Cities, but the north branch (694) and
south branch (494) are numbered separately.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
 
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"counter-clockwise on 465" ??

Harold Buck wrote:

> In article <120920041724478363%c.fred@cox.net>,
> Dustin Emhart <c.fred@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Of course, then there are cases like I-540 in Raleigh, NC, where the
> > design of the road will make it lose its number. Somewhere in the next
> > 10-20 years, it will become a complete loop around the north of
> > Raleigh, and the number will change to I-640.
>
> Am I the only one who finds it odd to have a loop around a city with a
> single number (e.g., I-465 around Indianapolis)? Saying "east on 465" is
> meaningless unless you put in context whether you mean the *north* part
> of the loop or the *south* part of the loop.
>
> There's a loop around the Twin Cities, but the north branch (694) and
> south branch (494) are numbered separately.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson
 

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