News US Congressman accuses SMIC of making 7nm chips for China, violating U.S. sanctions

[Admin]

Michael McCaul accuses SMIC of evading U.S. sanctions, helping Huawei, calls for investigation and more stringent export controls.

US Congressman accuses SMIC of making 7nm chips for China, violating U.S. sanctions : Read more

 

[Pierce2623]

Somebody should probably explain to them that SMIC’s 7nm isn’t actually 7nm or really even particularly close and it’s made with tools designed for 14nm/16nm chips….

 

[AkroZ]

Somebody should probably explain to them that SMIC’s 7nm isn’t actually 7nm or really even particularly close and it’s made with tools designed for 14nm/16nm chips….

As TSMC (or others) 3nm is not 3 nanometers, 3nm or 2A or other names are only commercial names of the process and doesn't refere to any unit of measure (officially).
It's the reason why you can't compare TSMC 3nm process with Samsung 3nm process: they don't have the same precision of gravure.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Somebody should probably explain to them that SMIC’s 7nm isn’t actually 7nm or really even particularly close and it’s made with tools designed for 14nm/16nm chips….

Well, if you read the article, it looks as though SMIC’s legacy node fabs can still purchase the latest DUV tech, funnel advanced wafers into their legacy fab for lithography and then back out to their advanced fab for non-lithography processing.

 

[thth]

Somebody should probably explain to them that SMIC’s 7nm isn’t actually 7nm or really even particularly close and it’s made with tools designed for 14nm/16nm chips….

According to TechInsights it is 7nm
https://www.techinsights.com/blog/smic-7nm-truly-7nm-technology-how-it-compares-tsmc-7nm

TSMC is now the leader and considered the benchmark for nodes. TechInsights reverse engineered Huawei chip and concluded that it is equal to TSMC 7nm. TSMC originally did 7nm using the same type of tools that SMIC is using (without using EUV). So did Intel. So there's nothing to be surprised about making 7nm on DUV. The only difference is that it is going to cost more to make than using EUV.

 

[KraakBal]

What does a US congressman have to do with a Chinese company making a product for the Chinese gov? Cry, cope US, focus on yourself

 

[eichwana]

What does a US congressman have to do with a Chinese company making a product for the Chinese gov? Cry, cope US, focus on yourself

Right?? It seems the US gov is surprised that a Chinese tech company is making stuff for a Chinese tech company… this shouldn’t have been unprecedented.

For now the US should focus on their own interests like Intel and their business with TSMC, this will allow them to maintain their chip superiority.

 

[Pierce2623]

According to TechInsights it is 7nm
https://www.techinsights.com/blog/smic-7nm-truly-7nm-technology-how-it-compares-tsmc-7nm

TSMC is now the leader and considered the benchmark for nodes. TechInsights reverse engineered Huawei chip and concluded that it is equal to TSMC 7nm. TSMC originally did 7nm using the same type of tools that SMIC is using (without using EUV). So did Intel. So there's nothing to be surprised about making 7nm on DUV. The only difference is that it is going to cost more to make than using EUV.

I didn’t say 7nm couldn’t be done with DUV. I’m talking about the minimum resolution of their machines. They have to do insane levels of multi- patterning. TSMC 7nm isn’t 7nm either. I thought that was well known. Intel 10nm/Intel 7 was denser than TSMC 7nm. Regardless of the transistor size or density, the performance that SMIC is getting is closer to TSMC 14nm or 12nm

 

[Pierce2623]

Well, if you read the article, it looks as though SMIC’s legacy node fabs can still purchase the latest DUV tech, funnel advanced wafers into their legacy fab for lithography and then back out to their advanced fab for non-lithography processing.

I read the article. I’m talking PPA characteristics. SMIC’s 7nm might be similar in transistor density to TSMC, but it’s miles off in terms of performance and efficiency. The Kirin 9000s has 2023 core designs with 2018 performance.

 

[thth]

I didn’t say 7nm couldn’t be done with DUV. I’m talking about the minimum resolution of their machines. They have to do insane levels of multi- patterning. TSMC 7nm isn’t 7nm either. I thought that was well known. Intel 10nm/Intel 7 was denser than TSMC 7nm. Regardless of the transistor size or density, the performance that SMIC is getting is closer to TSMC 14nm or 12nm

Performance of the node itself is better than TSMC's DUV based 7nm and more closer to TSMC's EUV based 7nm. Density is also on par with TSMC 7nm according to TechInsights.
Performance of the chip (9010) is much better than any chip that was fabbed on TSMC 7nm. Chip performance is more closer to chips fabbed on TSMC 5nm.
So calling it equal to TSMC 14nm/12nm is ridiculous.

Yes as per Intel's earlier naming what intel called 10nm had density closer to TSMC 7nm and what Intel called 7nm had density closer to TSMC 5nm. So Intel aligned with TSMC's naming scheme and renamed their nodes, changed 10nm to Intel-7 and 7nm to Intel-4. So TSMC 7nm is now what everyone in the industry including Intel accepts as 7nm and SMIC 7nm is not worse than TSMC 7nm or Intel-7 in terms of performance.