News US gov't pushing TSMC and Intel to create joint venture in the US: Report

[Admin]

TSMC has made no official announcements about expanding in the U.S. at the board meetings this week, but the rumor mill points to quicker expansion in Arizona and a joint venture with Intel.

US gov't pushing TSMC and Intel to create joint venture in the US: Report : Read more

 

[bit_user]

Maybe TSMC would be willing to buy and operate Intel's fabs? That's about the only semi-realistic option that I can see that involves both companies.

IMO, it'd be really sad if IFS effectively gets subsumed by TSMC, one way or another. Intel is a US company, TSMC isn't. No other leading edge fab is (i.e. Samsung and Rapidus). Well, there's Micron, but they only make DRAM and NAND.

Also, Intel would retain its manufacturing capacity, aligning with the strategy set by former chief executive Pat Gelsinger.

Not in a meaningful way. The whole point was to expand their fabs into something that would compete with TSMC, not get run by it. In this scenario, probably the bulk of their fab revenue would just go to TSMC, since it's almost certain what TSMC would do is just bring over their own nodes (maybe in addition to running Intel's existing nodes, but Intel probably doesn't need help with that).

 

[Gururu]

Maybe TSMC would be willing to buy and operate Intel's fabs? That's about the only semi-realistic option that I can see that involves both companies.

IMO, it'd be really sad if IFS effectively gets subsumed by TSMC, one way or another. Intel is a US company, TSMC isn't. No other leading edge fab is (i.e. Samsung and Rapidus). Well, there's Micron, but they only make DRAM and NAND.


Not in a meaningful way. The whole point was to expand their fabs into something that would compete with TSMC, not get run by it. In this scenario, probably the bulk of their fab revenue would just go to TSMC, since it's almost certain what TSMC would do is just bring over their own nodes (maybe in addition to running Intel's existing nodes, but Intel probably doesn't need help with that).

There is absolutely no way the administration would let a foreign entity monopolize fabrication in the U.S.

 

[bit_user]

There is absolutely no way the administration would let a foreign entity monopolize fabrication in the U.S.

Yeah, that's why I said only "semi-realistic".

None of the other options seem any more realistic to me, as I don't expect TSMC has any interest in transferring its technology, IP, or expertise to anything owned by Intel.

 

[hotaru251]

doubt it'll happen..whats TSMC get out of it? helping a rival advance?

 

[Gururu]

Intel stock up 20% last few days, not sure if people are excited because of prospect of experienced TSMC coming aboard or purely on the idea that Intel is pretty much going to be making all government CPUs/NPUs during this administration.

I think it's pretty clear, however it pans out, that the government (as would any for its own) wants Intel (or purely its fab), at this point in time, to be the go to supplier for national projects. Wall street speculation could simply be market manipulation and seems untethered to any reliable sources for now. I would be gobsmacked if TSMC took on a role beyond government managed consulting.

 

[bit_user]

... Intel is pretty much going to be making all government CPUs/NPUs during this administration.

As mentioned, TSMC has fabs in the USA. AMD is one of its customers, presumably for their Zen 5 CCDs which seem like they could be made there.

Also, I wouldn't be so sure the government cares that much where the CPUs are made. Tariffs seem to be the main tool they want to use for coercion. A lot of government computing has already migrated to the cloud, and I'd guess they tend to just use the cheapest option there, even if it's ARM.

IMO, it's mainly for military systems where they actually care in such detail about the entire supply chain.

 

[Gururu]

As mentioned, TSMC has fabs in the USA. AMD is one of its customers, presumably for their Zen 5 CCDs which seem like they could be made there.

Also, I wouldn't be so sure the government cares that much where the CPUs are made. Tariffs seem to be the main tool they want to use for coercion. A lot of government computing has already migrated to the cloud, and I'd guess they tend to just use the cheapest option there, even if it's ARM.

IMO, it's mainly for military systems where they actually care in such detail about the entire supply chain.

It will be interesting to see if 'Made in America' continues to satisfy national interests when not 'Owned by America'.

 

[Pierce2623]

Yeah, that's why I said only "semi-realistic".

None of the other options seem any more realistic to me, as I don't expect TSMC has any interest in transferring its technology, IP, or expertise to anything owned by Intel.

The only way I’d see this cooperation working is if the joint venture was actually for a new node. Maybe either a much lower cost versions of leading edge nodes or just simply a new leading edge node. I have little doubt that TSMC and Intel both have enough engineering talent that a combination of their best people would almost certainly outperform anything either company can do all on its own.

 

[bit_user]

The only way I’d see this cooperation working is if the joint venture was actually for a new node.

Well, Intel and Samsung announced some sort of partnership, back in late October of last year. I wonder what's happening with that.

[News] Intel Explores Foundry Alliance with Samsung in High-Level Talks | TrendForce News

According to a report by the Maeil Business Newspaper, U.S. semiconductor giant Intel has reached out to Samsung Electronics to explore the possibilit...

www.trendforce.com

 

[emerth]

Also... AMD is supplanting Intel as the biggest CPU supplier in the datacenter. But Washington has only ever heard of Intel. This is the gov't picking winners, and as is usually the case, picking wrong.

 

[bit_user]

Also... AMD is supplanting Intel as the biggest CPU supplier in the datacenter.

In terms of revenue, recently.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...-the-datacenter-for-the-first-time-in-q4-2024
​

...but not server CPU unit sales, where Intel still outsells AMD by 3 to 1.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...market-share-in-2024-server-passes-25-percent
​

But Washington has only ever heard of Intel. This is the gov't picking winners, and as is usually the case, picking wrong.

I think you've got it wrong. They're talking to Intel because Intel has fabs, while AMD doesn't. AMD used to, but they sold them (now part of Global Foundries).

Right now, what they're clearly concerned with is ramping up chip production volume and quality, inside the USA. Intel has previously welcomed AMD and Nvidia to use their fabs, but neither has yet taken them up on the offer. I think they would still be welcome customers, in this hypothetical scenario of an Intel/TSMC joint venture.

So, I think this rumored partnership proposal is a somewhat separate issue from the matter of picking winners among CPUs, NPUs, etc.

 

[why_wolf]

My read Trump (or really whoever is whispering in his ear) wants TSMC to turn over all its secrets to Intel so that he can slap a 100% tariff on Taiwan.

Just braindead and turns Intel into a national monopoly. The worst possible outcome.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

Imagine the outrage if the headline read "Chinese government pushing Intel and Huawei to create joint venture in China!

 

[jp7189]

I see no advantage to tsmc unless Intel exits the fab business to become a design only company like AMD. I wouldn't put it past Intel to be shopping for a fab buyer at this point.

 

[XeonCJJ]

This rumor initally broke out saying Trump administarion is in talk with Intel and TSMC on this. But now the Trump administration has offically denied it.

"The White House official said the Trump administration supports foreign companies investing and building in the U.S. but is "unlikely" to support a foreign firm operating Intel's factories." -- https://www.reuters.com/technology/...fter-trump-team-request-bloomberg-2025-02-14/

Remember last year there were a lot of buyout rumors/yield rumors coming from Reuters/Bloomberg/SomeBigMediaGroup quoting "someone familiar with this matter"? None of them actually materializerd. Some of the biggest news (Pat's departure was not made rumor first.)