USB Problem P4C800 Deluxe

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Front of case USB plugged into USB header on board. Won't recognize my
camera and gives me unknown device warning.
Back of case everything works great. Front works with old joy stick.
Help!!!
 
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Hi Paul:

Does the ICH5R used by the P4C800E Deluxe have the same problems ?
Thanks.
 
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I have the same problem with usb 2.0 mem key and a Antec case. I think
that is the configuration of usb front panel cable.
 

Paul

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In article <q1Y8e.5014$gV.3255@lakeread02>, "J.Botelis" <dmts@cox.net> wrote:

> Front of case USB plugged into USB header on board. Won't recognize my
> camera and gives me unknown device warning.
> Back of case everything works great. Front works with old joy stick.
> Help!!!

I hope you are aware of the "latchup" problem with Intel ICH4, ICH5,
ICH5R based motherboards. The problem has to do with plugging in USB
devices while the computer is running. The end result is the
Southbridge chip (the ones listed above), gets red hot and dies.
It gets red hot, because a phantom path has formed inside the chip
that conducts amps of current, causing destruction of the chip.
This is basically an Intel design defect, as chips should not
normally be as sensitive to this problem, as the Intel chips
appear to be.

http://tw.giga-byte.com/Motherboard/Support/FAQ/FAQ_456.htm

If you have a USB port that is not functioning properly, do not
torture it. Either RMA the board and get it fixed. Or, use the
ports on the back of the computer. Or, for greater safety, use
a separate PCI USB2.0 card for your USB devices. By using a
separate PCI card, you no longer gamble by using the
Southbridge USB ports. (Also, for greater safety, I would
disconnect the USB wires from the Asus 2x5 USB headers, to
reduce the chances of induced static discharge into the
USB headers.)

It is unclear what the failure mechanism is. Whether failure
is being causes by static discharge into the data lines on the
USB port, or is somehow related to the power path. I looked
at an Intel reference schematic, and power to the USB ports
is switched by a SI4501. That buffers the control path to
the USB power switch, and likely eliminates the power path
as the location of the failure. That leaves the USB data
inputs (D+ and D-) as the path being taken by the static
discharge. For static to do this, the static discharge can
either flow straight down the D+ and D- wire, and into
the Southbridge. Or, the D+ and D- wires can have current
flow induced into them, by a static discharge flowing in an
adjacent conductor.

HTH,
Paul
 
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Thanks Paul, would the same apply to the fire wire connector?
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-1804052246590001@192.168.1.178...
> In article <q1Y8e.5014$gV.3255@lakeread02>, "J.Botelis" <dmts@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Front of case USB plugged into USB header on board. Won't recognize my
>> camera and gives me unknown device warning.
>> Back of case everything works great. Front works with old joy stick.
>> Help!!!
>
> I hope you are aware of the "latchup" problem with Intel ICH4, ICH5,
> ICH5R based motherboards. The problem has to do with plugging in USB
> devices while the computer is running. The end result is the
> Southbridge chip (the ones listed above), gets red hot and dies.
> It gets red hot, because a phantom path has formed inside the chip
> that conducts amps of current, causing destruction of the chip.
> This is basically an Intel design defect, as chips should not
> normally be as sensitive to this problem, as the Intel chips
> appear to be.
>
> http://tw.giga-byte.com/Motherboard/Support/FAQ/FAQ_456.htm
>
> If you have a USB port that is not functioning properly, do not
> torture it. Either RMA the board and get it fixed. Or, use the
> ports on the back of the computer. Or, for greater safety, use
> a separate PCI USB2.0 card for your USB devices. By using a
> separate PCI card, you no longer gamble by using the
> Southbridge USB ports. (Also, for greater safety, I would
> disconnect the USB wires from the Asus 2x5 USB headers, to
> reduce the chances of induced static discharge into the
> USB headers.)
>
> It is unclear what the failure mechanism is. Whether failure
> is being causes by static discharge into the data lines on the
> USB port, or is somehow related to the power path. I looked
> at an Intel reference schematic, and power to the USB ports
> is switched by a SI4501. That buffers the control path to
> the USB power switch, and likely eliminates the power path
> as the location of the failure. That leaves the USB data
> inputs (D+ and D-) as the path being taken by the static
> discharge. For static to do this, the static discharge can
> either flow straight down the D+ and D- wire, and into
> the Southbridge. Or, the D+ and D- wires can have current
> flow induced into them, by a static discharge flowing in an
> adjacent conductor.
>
> HTH,
> Paul
 
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Is your case an Antec ?
If so you can email Antec for a free replacement of the front usb panel.

"J.Botelis" <dmts@cox.net> wrote in message
news:q1Y8e.5014$gV.3255@lakeread02...
> Front of case USB plugged into USB header on board. Won't recognize my
> camera and gives me unknown device warning.
> Back of case everything works great. Front works with old joy stick.
> Help!!!
>
 

Paul

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In article <HI_8e.5864$gV.3879@lakeread02>, "J.Botelis" <dmts@cox.net> wrote:

> Thanks Paul, would the same apply to the fire wire connector?

Firewire is done by the VT6307 chip, a chip separate from the
Intel Southbridge. It won't suffer from the exact same issue.

There are occasionally problems with Firewire ports. The claim
is, that some of the failures are caused by bad cables, or
plugging in the connector wrong. The only analysis attempted
on Firewire problems, was done by Weibetech. This article
should explain some of the exposures.

http://www.wiebetech.com/pressreleases/FireWirePortFailures.htm

HTH,
Paul
 

Paul

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In article <1113884377.586272.253130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Malam" <malamilia@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Paul:
>
> Does the ICH5R used by the P4C800E Deluxe have the same problems ?
> Thanks.

All three chip types are possible candidates for failure.
ICH4 (an older Southbridge), and the ICH5 and ICH5R are actually
the same chip, just with enumeration differences. Any motherboard
(doesn't matter what brand) with one of those Southbridge chips,
could suffer from the problem.

I have not heard any stories about ICH6 chips yet, but there
are not as many of those in circulation.

And from the stories being recounted here, only a separate
USB2 PCI card, is going to make USB ports a safe thing to
use, on those motherboards. That means I will be picking up
a USB2 PCI card for my P4C800-E Deluxe.

Paul
 

Tony

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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:46:59 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>the Southbridge. Or, the D+ and D- wires can have current
>flow induced into them, by a static discharge flowing in an
>adjacent conductor.

Paul, I enjoy reading your posts. You really know your s*&t!

Thanks for your contributions to this newsgroup.
 

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On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:09:41 GMT, Tony <phoenix@NOSPAMcfl.rr.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:46:59 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>
>>the Southbridge. Or, the D+ and D- wires can have current
>>flow induced into them, by a static discharge flowing in an
>>adjacent conductor.
>
>Paul, I enjoy reading your posts. You really know your s*&t!
>
>Thanks for your contributions to this newsgroup.

I agree 100% with Tony. Paul's posts are very informative.
One of the few people on Usenet I actually filter to keep.
 
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Paul, is there a speed or performance difference between the built-in
USB port or that from a PCI card?
Thanks.
 

Paul

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In article <1114114087.061385.323470@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Malam" <malamilia@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Paul, is there a speed or performance difference between the built-in
> USB port or that from a PCI card?
> Thanks.

No practical difference.

A USB 2.0 PCI card has 60MB/sec of transfer rate, to share
over all the USB connectors. This fits easily in the
100-110MB/sec practical transfer rate limits of the PCI bus.

While it may be possible to construct a pathological case,
where bandwidth limits might be an issue, I doubt you will
run into them. I think a USB disk enclosure I used, couldn't
transfer more than 30-40MB/sec, so that much bus traffic
should not be a problem. Many USB bridge devices have
internal limits that prevent their full potential from
being realised.

Paul
 

Paul

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In article <umdg61tlj9lic4b9f50ijbbo69nfv38c5h@4ax.com>, Malam
<malamilia@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Is this implying that not all the USB 2 ports on the motherboard is
> risky to use ? Only the last 4 uses the connectors on the
> motherboard, are these the risky ones ?
> Thanks.
>

There are two issues of risk here. The first risk, is that
static discharge will enter a USB port connected to the
Intel Southbridge. The ICH5/ICH5R Southbridge supports
a total of eight USB ports. Four ports are on the back of
the computer. Four ports are provided via USB56 and USB78
headers. Based on user reports, none of the ports is immune
to static induced latchup failure.

The second kind of risk, is associated with the wiring
provided on certain brands of computer cases. If there is
a wiring error, due to the wires in the computer being
mislabelled, then you could damage a device when it is
plugged into a miswired port. Since the connectors on
the back of the computer are pre-wired, there is never
a concern of a wiring error ruining a peripheral.

In other words, with P4C800/P4P800 boards, you should
not use any of the USB ports offered on the motherboard.
A separate PCI USB 2.0 card is the right solution to use
for such a board.

For models of motherboards that do not use ICH4/ICH5/ICH5R,
your main concern should be the correct wiring of the
computer case front ports. If you use the front computer
case ports, you should double check that the wiring is
correct, before using a front port on the computer. An
ohmmeter is a useful tool for checking the correctness
of the case manufacturer's wiring.

HTH,
Paul
 
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Thanks Paul, your help is appreciated. I'll pick up a PCI card.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:36:28 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <umdg61tlj9lic4b9f50ijbbo69nfv38c5h@4ax.com>, Malam
><malamilia@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is this implying that not all the USB 2 ports on the motherboard is
>> risky to use ? Only the last 4 uses the connectors on the
>> motherboard, are these the risky ones ?
>> Thanks.
>>
>
>There are two issues of risk here. The first risk, is that
>static discharge will enter a USB port connected to the
>Intel Southbridge. The ICH5/ICH5R Southbridge supports
>a total of eight USB ports. Four ports are on the back of
>the computer. Four ports are provided via USB56 and USB78
>headers. Based on user reports, none of the ports is immune
>to static induced latchup failure.
>
>The second kind of risk, is associated with the wiring
>provided on certain brands of computer cases. If there is
>a wiring error, due to the wires in the computer being
>mislabelled, then you could damage a device when it is
>plugged into a miswired port. Since the connectors on
>the back of the computer are pre-wired, there is never
>a concern of a wiring error ruining a peripheral.
>
>In other words, with P4C800/P4P800 boards, you should
>not use any of the USB ports offered on the motherboard.
>A separate PCI USB 2.0 card is the right solution to use
>for such a board.
>
>For models of motherboards that do not use ICH4/ICH5/ICH5R,
>your main concern should be the correct wiring of the
>computer case front ports. If you use the front computer
>case ports, you should double check that the wiring is
>correct, before using a front port on the computer. An
>ohmmeter is a useful tool for checking the correctness
>of the case manufacturer's wiring.
>
>HTH,
> Paul
 

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