USB Transfer Speeds Mystery

[quint.wolf95]

Hello,

Fist pic is a video being transferred to USB thumb drive, the second is the same video going to an external HDD via usb.

Last resort to ask for help here. When transferring files to a USB thumb drive 3.1 the transfer starts off "fast" (80MB/s) then ALWAYS drops down to around 16MB/s depending on the drive I use. From there it will 'bounce' to about ~17-18 then back to 16MB/s. it will continue this until the file xfer is complete. I have tried all USB ports, different USB thumb drives and still get the same result. The external HDD seems to be unaffected.

Transferring the same file to my 3.0 external HDD is always a steady speed ~80MB/s.

The file type does not have an impact, any type does the same thing. I get the same result with slightly lower speeds on all of the thumb drives I use. Ranging from 2.0 to new 3.1 drives.

Things I have tried...
-updated BIOS today
-installed the latest chipset driver
-reformatted the USB devices
-tried all USB ports (2.0,3.0, and USB C 3.1)
-tried different USB devices
-uninstalled drivers/reinstalled
-safe mode
-turned on caching on the USB device
- pausing the xfer then resuming causes the speeds to go very fast but then it will freeze for a few minutes. It started off normal, dropped down to 16MB/s then I paused then resumed. You can see it jumped up to 599MB/s and almost completed the transfer before freezing.

Nothing has helped.

Specs:

-Win 10 pro
-i5 6600k
-GTX 1060
-MSI z170a SLI mobo
-16GB DDR4
-500GB SSD
-2TB HDD

Any ideas?

-Zak

 

[n0ns3ns3]

there are not many "fast" USB thumb drives.
this write speed is kinda normal - especially if drive was used before.
read speed (copy from thumb drive) would be x2 or more faster.

 

[quint.wolf95]

there are not many "fast" USB thumb drives.
this write speed is kinda normal - especially if drive was used before.
read speed (copy from thumb drive) would be x2 or more faster.

This is definitely not normal. I understand that USB flash drives very in quality and will not always achieve advertised or theoretical maximums but 16MB/s is not normal.USB 2.0 max is 60MB/s after all.

I would like faster speeds but I am mainly concerned with the pattern of the transfer. Why is starting fast and then dropping off to nearly nothing and then going fast then slow. I get better write speeds on an old WIN 7 laptop via USB 2.0...

 

[k1114]

there are not many "fast" USB thumb drives.
this write speed is kinda normal - especially if drive was used before.
read speed (copy from thumb drive) would be x2 or more faster.

That's nonsense. Pun intended. Even an old usb 2.0 usb drive can max out 30MB/s (it's not 60) write let alone the 17MB/s he's getting. With a faster usb 3.0 drive (which does depend more on model of the usb drive) it should be well over 80MB/s of that hdd. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/usb-3.0-thumb-drive-review,3477-2.html This is 5 years old and shows plenty of fast usb drives. 2/3 of those are double the speed he's getting. There are hundreds of models now that can do the same.

If the same flash drive is faster on a 2.0 port on another pc then I'd have to say it's driver related. The same reason for the speed bump in the beginning and the peak going to 600 is a delay somewhere.

 

[USAFRet]

there are not many "fast" USB thumb drives.
this write speed is kinda normal - especially if drive was used before.
read speed (copy from thumb drive) would be x2 or more faster.

This is definitely not normal. I understand that USB flash drives very in quality and will not always achieve advertised or theoretical maximums but 16MB/s is not normal.USB 2.0 max is 60MB/s after all.

I would like faster speeds but I am mainly concerned with the pattern of the transfer. Why is starting fast and then dropping off to nearly nothing and then going fast then slow. I get better write speeds on an old WIN 7 laptop via USB 2.0...

USB 2.0 (or 3.0 or 3.1) performance is one thing.
The USB stick performance is something else.

That fast initial speed you see is merely the cache buffer space. Once the buffer is full....slowness.

 

[quint.wolf95]

there are not many "fast" USB thumb drives.
this write speed is kinda normal - especially if drive was used before.
read speed (copy from thumb drive) would be x2 or more faster.

That's nonsense. Pun intended. Even an old usb 2.0 usb drive can max out 30MB/s (it's not 60) write let alone the 17MB/s he's getting. With a faster usb 3.0 drive (which does depend more on model of the usb drive) it should be well over 80MB/s of that hdd. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/usb-3.0-thumb-drive-review,3477-2.html This is 5 years old and shows plenty of fast usb drives. 2/3 of those are double the speed he's getting. There are hundreds of models now that can do the same.

If the same flash drive is faster on a 2.0 port on another pc then I'd have to say it's driver related. The same reason for the speed bump in the beginning and the peak going to 600 is a delay somewhere.

thank you for clarifying k1114. On a small note "The now-aging USB 2.0 standard can theoretically transfer data at a very high 480 megabits per second (mbps), or 60 megabytes per second (MBps). " https://www.pcworld.com/article/2360306/usb-3-0-speed-real-and-imagined.html Not trying to be rude just want to get my facts straight.

 

[quint.wolf95]

there are not many "fast" USB thumb drives.
this write speed is kinda normal - especially if drive was used before.
read speed (copy from thumb drive) would be x2 or more faster.

This is definitely not normal. I understand that USB flash drives very in quality and will not always achieve advertised or theoretical maximums but 16MB/s is not normal.USB 2.0 max is 60MB/s after all.

I would like faster speeds but I am mainly concerned with the pattern of the transfer. Why is starting fast and then dropping off to nearly nothing and then going fast then slow. I get better write speeds on an old WIN 7 laptop via USB 2.0...

USB 2.0 (or 3.0 or 3.1) performance is one thing.
The USB stick performance is something else.

That fast initial speed you see is merely the cache buffer space. Once the buffer is full....slowness.

How come the external HDD that uses 3.0 is not doing the same thing then?

 

[USAFRet]

How come the external HDD that uses 3.0 is not doing the same thing then?

Possibly because the external HDD can sustain greater speeds than the USB stick.

 

[quint.wolf95]

How come the external HDD that uses 3.0 is not doing the same thing then?

Possibly because the external HDD can sustain greater speeds than the USB stick.

Im sure that is correct. However, why does every flash drive I try display the same transfer pattern? Using a different computer results in a much more uniform transfer like the picture of the HDD. I do not think it is the USB device. I think it is a software/driver issue. I cannot seem to pin it down though.

Since the same thing occurred in safe mode is there another test I can do to narrow it down?

Here is the whole transfer:

 

[smorizio]

see if the mb crm security is on or off. intel put that in the bios to keep people with usb stick to copy data of of pc. that may be slowing the stick down. another issue may be your anti virus is trying to read the stick and data as it going to the stick. try turning off anti virus see if the speed changes. also try windows safe mode see if the speed changes.

 

[quint.wolf95]

see if the mb crm security is on or off. intel put that in the bios to keep people with usb stick to copy data of of pc. that may be slowing the stick down. another issue may be your anti virus is trying to read the stick and data as it going to the stick. try turning off anti virus see if the speed changes. also try windows safe mode see if the speed changes.

Hello Smorizio,

I have already tried safemode, same thing happens. I disabled my antivirus, same thing happens. I will look at the BIOS settings more tomorrow.

Thank you

 

[n0ns3ns3]

OMG ...
There is no antivirus problem. there is not much difference between how windows treats external USB flash drive or external USB HDD.
There is no problems with the USB ports or their drivers as 110MB/s requires at least functioning USB 3.0
The slow write speed to USB flash drives is just the reality.
Regardless of the benchmarks kindly (though IMHO pointlessly provided by k1114) USB flash drives become even slower over time.

 

[quint.wolf95]

OMG ...
There is no antivirus problem. there is not much difference between how windows treats external USB flash drive or external USB HDD.
There is no problems with the USB ports or their drivers as 110MB/s requires at least functioning USB 3.0
The slow write speed to USB flash drives is just the reality.
Regardless of the benchmarks kindly (though IMHO pointlessly provided by k1114) USB flash drives become even slower over time.

The flash drive I bought for testing (in case the ones I had were bad) is only a week old. I do not think my flash drive is old... Additionally, I do not get the same results on different computers when I use the flash drive.

 

[k1114]

OMG ...
There is no antivirus problem. there is not much difference between how windows treats external USB flash drive or external USB HDD.
There is no problems with the USB ports or their drivers as 110MB/s requires at least functioning USB 3.0
The slow write speed to USB flash drives is just the reality.
Regardless of the benchmarks kindly (though IMHO pointlessly provided by k1114) USB flash drives become even slower over time.

Please read the thread (actually the original post will do) to prevent omg moments. We don't want people to have heart attacks. He has usb 3.0. Slow flash drives is not a reality when reality is the opposite plus I provided proof regardless of how meaningless it is to some, facts don't lie. It wasn't pointless when he said he tried a new one and didn't have the issue on other pcs. I won't deny flash cells wear out from writes (not age) but the majority of a flash drive's life is faster than 17MBps sequential. I still have a 2.0 that's used regularly and maxes the same 30MB/s as new.

Btw while 60MBps is the theoretical max, accounting for overhead the specs stated 53 max but real world is ~30MBps. I think some 2.0 flash drives were up to 40 but most topped just 30. What were you getting on your laptop's 2.0?

My other concern was bios settings but smorizio mentioned it. Some mobos also have some usb transfer speed boost that may interfere but I didn't see it in the specs of yours. Just check any and all usb options.

 

[quint.wolf95]

OMG ...
There is no antivirus problem. there is not much difference between how windows treats external USB flash drive or external USB HDD.
There is no problems with the USB ports or their drivers as 110MB/s requires at least functioning USB 3.0
The slow write speed to USB flash drives is just the reality.
Regardless of the benchmarks kindly (though IMHO pointlessly provided by k1114) USB flash drives become even slower over time.

Please read the thread (actually the original post will do) to prevent omg moments. We don't want people to have heart attacks. He has usb 3.0. Slow flash drives is not a reality when reality is the opposite plus I provided proof regardless of how meaningless it is to some, facts don't lie. It wasn't pointless when he said he tried a new one and didn't have the issue on other pcs. I won't deny flash cells wear out from writes (not age) but the majority of a flash drive's life is faster than 17MBps sequential. I still have a 2.0 that's used regularly and maxes the same 30MB/s as new.

Btw while 60MBps is the theoretical max, accounting for overhead the specs stated 53 max but real world is ~30MBps. I think some 2.0 flash drives were up to 40 but most topped just 30. What were you getting on your laptop's 2.0?

My other concern was bios settings but smorizio mentioned it. Some mobos also have some usb transfer speed boost that may interfere but I didn't see it in the specs of yours. Just check any and all usb options.

Thank you k1114. I understand about the 30MB/s being closer to real world.

testing on my old win7 laptop with the new USB flash drive in question...1GB file

2.0 port - 20 MB/s for about 90% of the xfer then it dropped to 13 MB/s ( I understand this drop to be common)
3.0 port - 16 MB/s for the whole xfer

testing on my old win7 laptop with an older usb 2.0 flash drive ...1GB file

2.0 port - 3 MB/s the whole transfer
3.0 port - 5 MB/s the whole transfer

I checked my BIOS settings and I could not find anything about USB speeds or security like smorizio mentioned. I can post screen shots from the BIOS if that will help.

 

[k1114]

What type of file is this? What's the models of the flash drives? With the slow speeds every time, I'm suspecting it's actually the file. This can't be sequential.

 

[quint.wolf95]

What type of file is this? What's the models of the flash drives? With the slow speeds every time, I'm suspecting it's actually the file. This can't be sequential.

I was moving a 1GB video. Im not home at the moment so I dont know the exact format. However, I have tried moving many pictures (about 1GB worth) and it does the same thing (transfer pattern).

The new flash drive is Kingston’s DataTraveler® 100 G3 (DT100G3) https://www.kingston.com/us/usb/personal_business/dt100g3

and the old 2.0 is Kingston’s DataTraveler® SE9 https://www.kingston.com/us/usb/personal_business/dtse9h

These are just the two I tested the other day. I have a handful of others.

Could it be a USB driver issue if my external HDD connects via USB 3.0? (WD 2TB My Book Desktop External Hard Drive https://www.amazon.com/Book-Desktop-External-Drive-WDBFJK0020HBK-NESN/dp/B00E3RH5W2) It almost sounds like the computer is transferring data differently to each device. If it means anything the read speed (when copying a file from the flashdrive) is about 130MB/s.

Zak

 

[n0ns3ns3]

Please read the thread (actually the original post will do) to prevent omg moments. We don't want people to have heart attacks. He has usb 3.0. Slow flash drives is not a reality when reality is the opposite plus I provided proof regardless of how meaningless it is to some, facts don't lie. It wasn't pointless when he said he tried a new one and didn't have the issue on other pcs. I won't deny flash cells wear out from writes (not age) but the majority of a flash drive's life is faster than 17MBps sequential. I still have a 2.0 that's used regularly and maxes the same 30MB/s as new.

Btw while 60MBps is the theoretical max, accounting for overhead the specs stated 53 max but real world is ~30MBps. I think some 2.0 flash drives were up to 40 but most topped just 30. What were you getting on your laptop's 2.0?

My other concern was bios settings but smorizio mentioned it. Some mobos also have some usb transfer speed boost that may interfere but I didn't see it in the specs of yours. Just check any and all usb options.

The slowdown is not due to "wear". There is no TRIM over USB. and frankly, controllers on USB drives are fairly simple.

 

[k1114]

You said over time not from usage. But this isn't an issue with trim since it was a new flash drive. You can also just format or use other methods so there is no slowdown from a lack of trim. There are flash drives with the same controllers as ssds. That old article I posted should have some which did get similar speeds of the ssds during that time. They still do the same with today's models.

Your flash drive and ehdd are both usb 3.0. If you mean because it's micro b into the hdd itself, that's still the same usb 3.0 regardless of plug type. It is a cheap flash drive though so it won't be fast. Benchmarks show you are getting similar speeds. http://usb.userbenchmark.com/Kingston-DataTraveler-100-G3-USB-30-16GB/Rating/1521

 

[SoggyTissue]

Your datatravelers are only rated 100mbs read, they have no write properties mentioned. therefore i assumne that there is the standard 20mbs write cap/average (the average write speed from decades ago) for these devices and is what you are experiencing (due to the behaviour of buffered transfers making it look like you can get more).

windows will partially write data (without telling you) whilst youre pasting to your new destination. during these few seconds, or longer if you pause, the slow 20mbs has time to build up an amount of data in the target location. pressing the confirm will show an initial (fake) transfer speed as the device reads completed transfers back to you.

probably not what you want to hear, but if write speed was good on your usb, it would be mentioned on the kingston site as a selling point, its left out, they know its poor.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

You said over time not from usage. But this isn't an issue with trim since it was a new flash drive. You can also just format or use other methods so there is no slowdown from a lack of trim. There are flash drives with the same controllers as ssds. That old article I posted should have some which did get similar speeds of the ssds during that time. They still do the same with today's models.

the only way to emulate trim for USB flash drive (or SSD connected via USB) I'm aware of is secure erase - which lets be honest most people wont do.
More advanced controllers have "garbage collector" which helps to keep decent performance over time.
I'm not that educated on specific USB drive controllers, in general it would be a waste to use same controller as SSD simply because it costs significantly more and packs unnecessary features. And let's not forget that regardless of controller capabilities, there is a number of flash chips factor which also limits the speed.
So most USB flash drives have under 20MB/s sec write speed.
Before replying, i checked couple of mine and they were 16-18MB/s on both Windows and Linux.