[SOLVED] USB3.0 PCIE Expansion Card

[talefrima]

Hi!

I'm using an old motherboard that has only usb2.0 but I would like to connect and improve the speeds of my usb3.0 devices, through the use of a pcie to usb3.0 expansion card. My motherboard's pcie 2.0 slots are occupied so I'm left with only pcie 1.0 1x slot to connect such an expansion card.
I have some questions regarding the use of these cards:

1. Speeds - I know pcie 1.0 1x has a speed of 250 MB/s so that would limit the performance of 3.0 devices, but still it should be much faster than the usb2.0 ports I currently have. Am I correct? If so, are the 250 MB/s going to be split between the number of usb3.0 ports on the expansion card? For example, if I'm using two usb ports then each port will get a speed of 125 MB/s? If it is true, then I shouldn't buy a card with more than three usb ports? (because 3 ports would split 250MB/s to about 83MB/s and with more ports than that the speeds will be similar to usb2.0 speeds).

2. Safety - Are pcie to usb3.0 cards safe to use regarding power consumption? I plan on connecting more intense usb3.0 devices like WD My Passport Ultra WDBFKT0040BGD (old generation, specs: https://www.amazon.com/White-Gold-Passport-Ultra-Portable-External/dp/B072PVR8B6?th=1). I've read many people's reviews on Amazon about pcie to usb3.0 cards for whom their cards and devices got burned. I'm having a hard time figuring out why, if I should worry too, and what are things to pay attention to. From what I can tell most such cards are powered by the motherboard. I have an Asus P5E motherboard, Corsair PSU 1000W HX1000 80+ Platinum, and Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 cpu. Also, Is there a limit to the number of devices I could connect to those cards regarding power?

3. Compatibility - Should It work? Should there be compatibility issues using usb devices with those cards? Usb controllers, drivers, etc. - what are the things to look for?

4. Recommendations - If using a pcie 1.0 1x to usb3.0 card is indeed a good and possible option for me, do you have any recommendations for a good card? I thought about this one (but I'm still afraid): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HN8QMKZ/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

Thank you very much for your time!!!

 

[Lutfij]

I wouldn't buy anything for that platform and rather focus on getting onboard a new platform that has USB3.0 natively or perhaps wait a little linger to what Intel and AMD will come out in the coming months, this year.

 

[dwd999]

Hi!

I'm using an old motherboard that has only usb2.0 but I would like to connect and improve the speeds of my usb3.0 devices, through the use of a pcie to usb3.0 expansion card. My motherboard's pcie 2.0 slots are occupied so I'm left with only pcie 1.0 1x slot to connect such an expansion card.
I have some questions regarding the use of these cards:

1. Speeds - I know pcie 1.0 1x has a speed of 250 MB/s so that would limit the performance of 3.0 devices, but still it should be much faster than the usb2.0 ports I currently have. Am I correct? If so, are the 250 MB/s going to be split between the number of usb3.0 ports on the expansion card? For example, if I'm using two usb ports then each port will get a speed of 125 MB/s? If it is true, then I shouldn't buy a card with more than three usb ports? (because 3 ports would split 250MB/s to about 83MB/s and with more ports than that the speeds will be similar to usb2.0 speeds).

2. Safety - Are pcie to usb3.0 cards safe to use regarding power consumption? I plan on connecting more intense usb3.0 devices like WD My Passport Ultra WDBFKT0040BGD (old generation, specs: https://www.amazon.com/White-Gold-Passport-Ultra-Portable-External/dp/B072PVR8B6?th=1). I've read many people's reviews on Amazon about pcie to usb3.0 cards for whom their cards and devices got burned. I'm having a hard time figuring out why, if I should worry too, and what are things to pay attention to. From what I can tell most such cards are powered by the motherboard. I have an Asus P5E motherboard, Corsair PSU 1000W HX1000 80+ Platinum, and Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 cpu. Also, Is there a limit to the number of devices I could connect to those cards regarding power?

3. Compatibility - Should It work? Should there be compatibility issues using usb devices with those cards? Usb controllers, drivers, etc. - what are the things to look for?

4. Recommendations - If using a pcie 1.0 1x to usb3.0 card is indeed a good and possible option for me, do you have any recommendations for a good card? I thought about this one (but I'm still afraid): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HN8QMKZ/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

Thank you very much for your time!!!

Since you are concerned about having enough power for your WD Passport perhaps a better card would be a powered card like this:

https://www.amazon.com/PCI-USB-Expa...Cards&qid=1657064857&s=pc&sr=1-6&ts_id=229185

 

[Paperdoc]

dwd999 has a VERY good point. Any standard USB3 port is supposed to supply power at 5 VDC up to 0.9 A. The PCIe bus was never designed to provide that much power to its cards. So a USB3 port card NEEDS more power than the PCIe bus slot can provide - it NEEDS to have a connector for power input from the PSU via a SATA power output connector. This may be why you have read of such cards failing - they do NOT include the extra power input connector - just like that one you linked to.

Whatever the max data transfer rate is for the PCIe slot you use, that capacity will be shared by all USB3 ports active at the same time. Allocation of that capacity is dynamic. So even if you have two devices plugged into separate USB ports on the card, when only one of them is in use it will get all of that capacity. If activity of the two devices tends to alternate, each will get almost that full capacity while it is active.

Recognize what the power limit means. There are many external drive enclosures and external drive complete units with USB3 data interfaces that contain larger hard drives like those used in desktop machines. These devices use much more than the 0.9 A at 5 VDC available from a USB3 port - in fact, some need also a 12 VDC supply. BUT the new "Laptop Hard Drives" sold for use on USB3 ports are specifically designed with lower-performance drive units that CAN operate properly on the power from any standard USB3 port. These typically come with NO small socket on them to allow you to attach an extra "power brick". Those will work just fine on such a port, but they will not work on a USB2 old port because that type provides less power.

The card dwd999 linked to has a total of 6 or 7 USB3 ports - 5 on its rear panel. You are interested in limiting your use to 2 or maybe 3. Note that any port you are NOT using will consume almost none of the card's data capacity, or of the power output capacity.

A final note on naming - USB3 ports have had several revisions of names. Now ALL are called USB3.2 Genx. The Gen1 version has a max data transfer rate of 5 Gb/s and can use either the new USB3 version of the older wide Type A socket, or the new Type C socket. The Gen2 version has a faster max speed of 10 Gb/s and really should be used only with Type C sockets. The Gen2x2 version can reach 20 Gb/s on a Type C socket. The cards you are looking at (and likely your devices) are described as "USB3", but that is really "USB3.2 Gen1" in current naming.

 

[talefrima]

Thank you all for your answers!

@Paperdoc - you made things much clearer for me, thank you for your explanations.
You said the PCIe bus was never designed to provide much power. I have read that a PCIe 1x slot, no matter the PCIe version, can deliver up to 3A at +3.3V (9.9W), 0.5A at +12V (6W), and 10W combined (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#:~:text=All PCI express,10 W combined.). Isn't that enough for delivering 0.9A on 5V (4.5W) for one or two USB3 ports? What am I missing? Maybe it's because PCIe is not said to have 5V?

About the portable HDD's - as you have said, some of them get their power from USB and not from external sources, and also officially said to be compatible with USB2.0, like WD My Passport Ultra that I have. Therefore, I could assume their power consumption is low enough so they can operate with no problems on USB2.0, even though they are made with USB3.0 interfaces. Otherwise, companies like WD wouldn't say it should be compatible with USB2.0.

Regarding the number of USB3.0 ports that I can use - to my knowledge a SATA power cable could provide 22.5W over 5V, so electrically, ignoring data transfer rates, does that mean I could use up to 5 USB3.0 devices all at once with no worries? (22.5W/4.5W)

 

[Paperdoc]

Confusion arises when we use a word for two slightly different things, and this is a good example. Watts is a very common way to quantify the rate of energy flow through a system, and we use the word "power" to label that. But we also use "power" as a more general term for a source of energy we can use, without being specific about the numerical quantity. In matching energy source specifications to user device requirements we do need to get quite specific.

The specs you cite above for what a normal PCIe slot can provide to a card plugged into it can deliver a 3.3 VDC source at up to 3.0 A, plus a 12 VDC source at up to 0.5 A, subject to a limit on maximum total power. Since power in Watts = Volts x Amps, it make sense to specify the Power limit in Watts by adding up the Watts from each source. But as you say, there is no supply of 5 VDC in the PCIe bus. That bus was designed to provide a 3.3 VDC source widely used in solid state components on the card, plus a 12 VDC (but low amperage) source for certain external devices, but is was designed before USB systems were deployed so it never had a 5 VDC source included. A standard USB2 port must supply power at 5 VDC at up to 0.5 A, and a USB 3.2 system has to do that voltage up to 0.9 A by specs for the systems. To get 5 VDC from what the PCIe card DOES have would mean extra conversion hardware on the card to create that source from the 3.3 and 12 VDC supplies. Just because the WATTS of power are available does not mean it is in the correct form (Voltage) to meet the USB port needs. It makes much more sense to provide a way to input that 5 VDC supply from a reliable external source - the PSU you already have in your system - using a very common SATA power output from that PSU.

With the new "Laptop Drives" designed for use with USB 3.2 systems, all the makers are indulging in modest deception. The use the phrase "compatible with USB2", but what they hide with that is the unit CAN transfer data on a USB2 connection line (because the communication subsystem is designed for this backwards compatibility feature), BUT it still requires sufficient POWER supplied at 5 VDC and very close to 0.9 A. A standard USB2 port cannot do that. When you try this, typical performance is that it looks like it is working until you actually try to use the drive. Then the power required to turn the disk inside is more than the 0.5 A max from USB2 and the drive unit flickers and tries but fails every time. Knowing this I rigged a way to make it work on a Laptop Drive my son had. I bought a USB3.2 HUB that came with its own power supply module sufficient to provide up to 0.9 A on every one of its ports independent of the computer host port it used. I plugged the laptop drive into that. Then the data cable was connected from the Hub back to a computer USB2 port. Everything worked because the drive HAD a full 0.9 A max power supply from the Hub, and the data could travel from the drive through the hub to the computer. There was a performance limit though - the host USB2 port max data transfer rate is much slower, and that limits the throughput rate to much less than a totally-USB3.2 system might do.

Your calculations on power available from a SATA connector source are correct with a small caution, and because the circuits involved are very simple. In a standard SATA power output connector from a PSU you get both 12 VDC and 5 VDC sources. In fact, for each of these there are THREE wires and contacts in the connector, plus three Ground return lines. Those contacts each have a limit of 1.5 A. So for the 12 VDC three lines at 1.5 A each, you CAN get 4.5 A max current. Similarly for the three 5 VDC lines. Since a laptop drive uses only the 5 VDC lines, you are interested only in those lines, and they CAN supply up to 4.5 A. Now, a USB3.2 port must be able to provide 5 VDC at up to 0.9 A, so with no conversions being done - simply connecting loads in parallel - you CAN supply up to 5 ports that way. The caution is that sometimes operating right at the edge of the limits is unreliable. On the other hand, IF you are using 5 such drives all connected to one central hub or card, it is HIGHLY unlikely that all five drives will be in full use (i.e. with disks turning and heads moving ) at the same time, so it probably would work. Then the REAL limit becomes this: what does the CARD maker say about its ability to convey that power from the input via a SATA connector to all of its several USB3.2 ports?

Thanks for Best Solution.

 

[talefrima]

Confusion arises when we use a word for two slightly different things, and this is a good example. Watts is a very common way to quantify the rate of energy flow through a system, and we use the word "power" to label that. But we also use "power" as a more general term for a source of energy we can use, without being specific about the numerical quantity. In matching energy source specifications to user device requirements we do need to get quite specific.

The specs you cite above for what a normal PCIe slot can provide to a card plugged into it can deliver a 3.3 VDC source at up to 3.0 A, plus a 12 VDC source at up to 0.5 A, subject to a limit on maximum total power. Since power in Watts = Volts x Amps, it make sense to specify the Power limit in Watts by adding up the Watts from each source. But as you say, there is no supply of 5 VDC in the PCIe bus. That bus was designed to provide a 3.3 VDC source widely used in solid state components on the card, plus a 12 VDC (but low amperage) source for certain external devices, but is was designed before USB systems were deployed so it never had a 5 VDC source included. A standard USB2 port must supply power at 5 VDC at up to 0.5 A, and a USB 3.2 system has to do that voltage up to 0.9 A by specs for the systems. To get 5 VDC from what the PCIe card DOES have would mean extra conversion hardware on the card to create that source from the 3.3 and 12 VDC supplies. Just because the WATTS of power are available does not mean it is in the correct form (Voltage) to meet the USB port needs. It makes much more sense to provide a way to input that 5 VDC supply from a reliable external source - the PSU you already have in your system - using a very common SATA power output from that PSU.

With the new "Laptop Drives" designed for use with USB 3.2 systems, all the makers are indulging in modest deception. The use the phrase "compatible with USB2", but what they hide with that is the unit CAN transfer data on a USB2 connection line (because the communication subsystem is designed for this backwards compatibility feature), BUT it still requires sufficient POWER supplied at 5 VDC and very close to 0.9 A. A standard USB2 port cannot do that. When you try this, typical performance is that it looks like it is working until you actually try to use the drive. Then the power required to turn the disk inside is more than the 0.5 A max from USB2 and the drive unit flickers and tries but fails every time. Knowing this I rigged a way to make it work on a Laptop Drive my son had. I bought a USB3.2 HUB that came with its own power supply module sufficient to provide up to 0.9 A on every one of its ports independent of the computer host port it used. I plugged the laptop drive into that. Then the data cable was connected from the Hub back to a computer USB2 port. Everything worked because the drive HAD a full 0.9 A max power supply from the Hub, and the data could travel from the drive through the hub to the computer. There was a performance limit though - the host USB2 port max data transfer rate is much slower, and that limits the throughput rate to much less than a totally-USB3.2 system might do.

Your calculations on power available from a SATA connector source are correct with a small caution, and because the circuits involved are very simple. In a standard SATA power output connector from a PSU you get both 12 VDC and 5 VDC sources. In fact, for each of these there are THREE wires and contacts in the connector, plus three Ground return lines. Those contacts each have a limit of 1.5 A. So for the 12 VDC three lines at 1.5 A each, you CAN get 4.5 A max current. Similarly for the three 5 VDC lines. Since a laptop drive uses only the 5 VDC lines, you are interested only in those lines, and they CAN supply up to 4.5 A. Now, a USB3.2 port must be able to provide 5 VDC at up to 0.9 A, so with no conversions being done - simply connecting loads in parallel - you CAN supply up to 5 ports that way. The caution is that sometimes operating right at the edge of the limits is unreliable. On the other hand, IF you are using 5 such drives all connected to one central hub or card, it is HIGHLY unlikely that all five drives will be in full use (i.e. with disks turning and heads moving ) at the same time, so it probably would work. Then the REAL limit becomes this: what does the CARD maker say about its ability to convey that power from the input via a SATA connector to all of its several USB3.2 ports?

Thanks for Best Solution.

Now I understand. Thank you again @Paperdoc for your time and thorough explanations, appreciate it!

 

[Paperdoc]

You're welcome. Enjoy your system!