[SOLVED] Used or new parts?

[GeebaGamer]

My 4670K/ Asus Z87 system is really struggling now, I have a GTX1080 which is still pretty good, but I was thinking I need to upgrade my mainboard/CPU.

I only really have a budget for second user system - I was thinking maybe an X99 mainboard and a i7 5820k as they can be bought pretty reasonably in the UK.. probably under £200.

But I'm a little out of touch with hardware these days and was wondering if there was anything new I could buy in that budget which was possibly better? AMD maybe?

I know I would need new memory, but again DDR4 is pretty reasonable second user here... seems cheaper than DDR3 in fact!

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[jeremyj_83]

When you say your current setup is struggling what do you mean by that? What is your budget for an upgrade and what parts would you keep from your old build? What PSU do you currently have?

 

[GeebaGamer]

Hi jeremyj_83,
Its starting to forget it BIOS settings and reports CPU fan issues... so I have to redo the BIOS settings every bootup... then I've been playing Farcry New Dawn and FC6 and it does really chug along when the action gets busy even with a small OC on the CPU and memory (4Ghz & 16GB-2400) I know the GTX1080 should be fine so unless I do a socket upgrade to a 4790k which is still £100+ in the UK then I'm a bit stuck. I thought maybe a second user X99 system at first ... but looking at AM4 boards they're considerably cheaper than a 2nd hand X99.
But the 5 and 7 series Ryzen are expensive and I have no idea on chipsets on that platform.... so really looking for advise on something that would be a step up from my i5 4670k for around £200 ish ... I know I'm pushing my luck with the current silicone issues... but thought there maybe a half decent CPU in the AMD line up that I can use until I can afford a better one....

 

[DRagor]

Its starting to forget it BIOS settings and reports CPU fan issues

That should be easily solved by changing motherboard battery.

so really looking for advise on something that would be a step up from my i5 4670k for around £200 ish

I was going to suggest new i3-12100f plus b660 mobo (plus used DDR4 memory, nothing wrong with that) but that's probably more like 300. That would be very solid upgrade though.
The problem with used stuff form old gens is that they either keep the prices high (like AMD CPUs) or for older parts the upgrade is minimal (like the mentioned 4790k) for the price you have to pay.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Hi jeremyj_83,
Its starting to forget it BIOS settings and reports CPU fan issues... so I have to redo the BIOS settings every bootup... then I've been playing Farcry New Dawn and FC6 and it does really chug along when the action gets busy even with a small OC on the CPU and memory (4Ghz & 16GB-2400) I know the GTX1080 should be fine so unless I do a socket upgrade to a 4790k which is still £100+ in the UK then I'm a bit stuck. I thought maybe a second user X99 system at first ... but looking at AM4 boards they're considerably cheaper than a 2nd hand X99.
But the 5 and 7 series Ryzen are expensive and I have no idea on chipsets on that platform.... so really looking for advise on something that would be a step up from my i5 4670k for around £200 ish ... I know I'm pushing my luck with the current silicone issues... but thought there maybe a half decent CPU in the AMD line up that I can use until I can afford a better one....

I was doing some quick looking on Ebay UK and anything close to 200 Quid with a Ryzen 5 is going to have an A320M motherboard with a 2600 CPU. While the 2600 isn't a bad CPU, I wouldn't want that motherboard. Probably your best option is to get a used 4770K, found some for 60 Quid, and save up for a new build. The next line of CPUs for AMD & Intel are probably going to have some huge platform changes. Just a few days ago Intel released the full ATX 3.0 spec that will allow for up to 600W GPUs. I wouldn't be surprised if the next CPU/Motherboard combos from AMD & Intel use the or at least can support the new ATX spec.

 

[logainofhades]

I really wouldn't waste money on dead platforms. Spend a bit more, and get on a current gen platform, with an actual upgrade path.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i3-12100F 3.3 GHz Quad-Core Processor (£95.36 @ Technextday)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B660M GAMING X DDR4 Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (£127.88 @ Technextday)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (£55.99 @ Box Limited)
Total: £279.23
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-03-09 15:13 GMT+0000

 

[geofelt]

What is the main purpose for your pc?
If it is for batch multithreaded apps then the i7 5820k might work.
But, if it is for gaming, the single thread performance is no better than your 4670K.
Games depend highly on the single thread performance of the master thread.
As a quick test on single thread performance, run the CPU-Z bench test.
You should see something like 460:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/mi9llw

Something based on the 12100 mentioned above would be a sound upgrade.
That chip will do 657:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/simj7f/1

I would also suggest paying a bit more for a non F chip to have integrated graphics available.

 

[GeebaGamer]

Wowsers! thanks for all the info people - very much appreciated 🆒

DRagor - I did try a new BIOS battery, well I say new, it was out of another board that didn't forget its BIOS setting so I assumed it would be ok, but maybe a brand new one is the way to test it properly

Jeremyj - would a 4770k be a better buy than the 4790k?

I found this earlier....
Buy GIGABYTE GAMING X V2 B550 AM4 Motherboard | Free Delivery | Currys
Its £86 delivered ...
And I've seen Ryzen 5 2600X for about £120 on ebay and DDR4 seems pretty reasonable - is that chipset ok? the last AMD I bought was a K6-233 in the 90's!

Would this give me a good step up from the i5 4670? and maybe some room for future upgrades? - I take it AM4 is longer lasting than the Intel LGA generations?

 

[DRagor]

And I've seen Ryzen 5 2600X for about £120 on ebay and DDR4 seems pretty reasonable - is that chipset ok? the last AMD I bought was a K6-233 in the 90's!

2600X was very good when it was new. Now not so much.

I take it AM4 is longer lasting than the Intel LGA generations?

Unfortunately no, AM4 is at the end of its life. Next gen AMD CPUs (which should happen this year) will fit into AM5 which will be completely different socket.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Wowsers! thanks for all the info people - very much appreciated 🆒

DRagor - I did try a new BIOS battery, well I say new, it was out of another board that didn't forget its BIOS setting so I assumed it would be ok, but maybe a brand new one is the way to test it properly

Jeremyj - would a 4770k be a better buy than the 4790k?

I found this earlier....
Buy GIGABYTE GAMING X V2 B550 AM4 Motherboard | Free Delivery | Currys
Its £86 delivered ...
And I've seen Ryzen 5 2600X for about £120 on ebay and DDR4 seems pretty reasonable - is that chipset ok? the last AMD I bought was a K6-233 in the 90's!

Would this give me a good step up from the i5 4670? and maybe some room for future upgrades? - I take it AM4 is longer lasting than the Intel LGA generations?

That is a budget B550 motherboard and so there will be quite a few short cuts taken to make it cheaper. Overall it seems OK from a review I have read about it. However, B550's only support Ryzen 3000 series and later. That 2600X that you found cannot be used in a B550 motherboard. Also as was mentioned the new CPUs from AMD will be going with the AM5 socket that comes out sometime this year. I personally wouldn't get anything on the current AM4 linuep just because it will be dead quite soon.

The 4790k has a 4.0GHz base & 4.4GHz boost vs 3.5GHz & 3.9GHz for the 4770k. That 14% higher base & 13% higher boost clock does add performance and the 4790k is said to overclock better. However, if you can get the 4770k for 60 Quid vs 100 Quid for a 4790k the added cost for the 4790k doesn't make much sense to me. If you have a decent cooler you might even be able to get 4790k stated clocks out of the 4770k. I used to have my 4770k OC'd to around 4790k stock speeds. In the end getting the 4c/8t CPU will help out and at least make your current platform last a good year or two while the newer stuff comes out and you can save money for those.

 

[GeebaGamer]

What is the main purpose for your pc?
If it is for batch multithreaded apps then the i7 5820k might work.
But, if it is for gaming, the single thread performance is no better than your 4670K.
Games depend highly on the single thread performance of the master thread.
As a quick test on single thread performance, run the CPU-Z bench test.
You should see something like 460:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/mi9llw

Something based on the 12100 mentioned above would be a sound upgrade.
That chip will do 657:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/simj7f/1

I would also suggest paying a bit more for a non F chip to have integrated graphics available.

Its a gaming PC mainly - I have a laptop for work etc.

Does this look right?

CPU-Z BENCHMARK
Click on the score to compare
Version
2017.1 (x64)
Single-Thread 460
Multi-Thread (4T) 1784
Your position (multi-thread only)
Intel Core i5-7600K 1794
YOU1784
Intel Core i3-8350K 1781
Intel Core i3-9100F1762
Intel Core i3-9100 1751




Ahhh no I just ran the bench in CPUZ and it is single-thread 451.4 and multi-thread 1760.1

 

[GeebaGamer]

That is a budget B550 motherboard and so there will be quite a few short cuts taken to make it cheaper. Overall it seems OK from a review I have read about it. However, B550's only support Ryzen 3000 series and later. That 2600X that you found cannot be used in a B550 motherboard. Also as was mentioned the new CPUs from AMD will be going with the AM5 socket that comes out sometime this year. I personally wouldn't get anything on the current AM4 linuep just because it will be dead quite soon.

The 4790k has a 4.0GHz base & 4.4GHz boost vs 3.5GHz & 3.9GHz for the 4770k. That 14% higher base & 13% higher boost clock does add performance and the 4790k is said to overclock better. However, if you can get the 4770k for 60 Quid vs 100 Quid for a 4790k the added cost for the 4790k doesn't make much sense to me. If you have a decent cooler you might even be able to get 4790k stated clocks out of the 4770k. I used to have my 4770k OC'd to around 4790k stock speeds. In the end getting the 4c/8t CPU will help out and at least make your current platform last a good year or two while the newer stuff comes out and you can save money for those.

Thanks again jeremyj - yeah it did look a whole lot cheaper than the other boards available... I have a feeling anything AM5 will be out of my price range for a while as its DDR5?

I've got a BeQuiet cooler and BeQuiet 650W PSU

I think maybe you're right... look out for a 4770/4790k and do an insocket upgrade maybe an NVME PCI-E disk (no NVME slot) and an OS refresh could be the way until I have more spare cash.

 

[geofelt]

Its a gaming PC mainly - I have a laptop for work etc.

Does this look right?

CPU-Z BENCHMARK
Click on the score to compare
Version
2017.1 (x64)
Single-Thread 460
Multi-Thread (4T) 1784
Your position (multi-thread only)
Intel Core i5-7600K 1794
YOU1784
Intel Core i3-8350K 1781
Intel Core i3-9100F1762
Intel Core i3-9100 1751

Those numbers look right.
For a gaming pc, I wold compare based on single thread performance, not the multithread number.
Few games can make effective use of more than 4-6 threads, and every viable replacement will exceed that thread count.
4790K would be your strongest upgrade keeping your motherboard.
That would give 469; not really much of a boost for gaming.
https://valid.x86.fr/bench/xb7lml
And, on US ebay, they go for $100-$150.

12th gen processors have improved architecture and I would look at them first if you can manage the budget.
I3-12100 is @657:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/simj7f/1
DDR4 based B660 motherboards are reasonably priced.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Thanks again jeremyj - yeah it did look a whole lot cheaper than the other boards available... I have a feeling anything AM5 will be out of my price range for a while as its DDR5?

I've got a BeQuiet cooler and BeQuiet 650W PSU

I think maybe you're right... look out for a 4770/4790k and do an insocket upgrade maybe an NVME PCI-E disk (no NVME slot) and an OS refresh could be the way until I have more spare cash.

About 2 years ago I got an M.2 NVMe > PCIe adapter card and a 2TB ADATA 8200Pro drive. It has worked great for a while and those adapters are cheap. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JJTVGZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With all the changes that are going to be happening over the next several years in PCs, waiting is probably for the best. I still run my 4770k and am going to wait to upgrade for at least another year. CPU wise I am still OK, I just run into a RAM limitation for using my desktop for more home lab things. Ideally I need 64GB RAM but my motherboard only supports 32GB.

 

[GeebaGamer]

About 2 years ago I got an M.2 NVMe > PCIe adapter card and a 2TB ADATA 8200Pro drive. It has worked great for a while and those adapters are cheap. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JJTVGZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With all the changes that are going to be happening over the next several years in PCs, waiting is probably for the best. I still run my 4770k and am going to wait to upgrade for at least another year. CPU wise I am still OK, I just run into a RAM limitation for using my desktop for more home lab things. Ideally I need 64GB RAM but my motherboard only supports 32GB.

Do you use that adapter card as a boot drive?

 

[jeremyj_83]

Do you use that adapter card as a boot drive?

No I boot from the systems original SATA SSD. I added that 2TB NVMe a couple years ago to store games and VMs.

 

[GeebaGamer]

Is the Z87 chipset capable of booting from a PCI-E NVMe boot drive?

 

[jeremyj_83]

Is the Z87 chipset capable of booting from a PCI-E NVMe boot drive?

I don't believe it does.

 

[logainofhades]

Is the Z87 chipset capable of booting from a PCI-E NVMe boot drive?

I do not think so. I believe Z97 was the first chipset capable of this.

 

[geofelt]

Is the Z87 chipset capable of booting from a PCI-E NVMe boot drive?

The question is really moot.
The value of a pcie ssd is in sequential processing.
Synthetic benchmarks look wonderful.
But 90% of activity is small random I/O and in that respect all ssd devices perform similarly.
You would not likely see any difference if you used a 2.5" sata dds.
Here is an amusing video on that:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKLA7w9eeA

 

[GeebaGamer]

Thanks for all the help people - much appreciated
Think I'll go for a standard SSD upgrade... refresh Windows and add the i7 4770/4790K and see how things go