[SOLVED] used SSD suspiciously low host writes and hours - can S.M.A.R.T attribute be modified by the seller?

[Pextaxmx]

I bought SM843Tn 480Gb off ebay. It looks pretty beat up and the mfg date is 2015.8. Then Crystal Info says super low <1T writes and only 16 hrs of power time. Am I supposed to believe this? Is there a way sellers modify the SMART data somehow? Some magic commands in Linux maybe?

 

[fzabkar]

Modifying SMART requires access to the firmware.

Your SSD uses Samsung's S4LN021X01-8030 controller:

https://www.storagereview.com/review/samsung-sm843t-ssd-review

The following list would suggest that this controller is supported by PC3000 SSD, which is a leading commercial software tool.

https://blog.acelaboratory.com/pc-3000-ssd-list-of-supported-ssd-drives-regularly-updated.html

 

[Pextaxmx]

holy moly... I guess I am done with buying used SSD's from now on. People can pull end of life SSD from heavy load system and sell as 100% healthy... showing crystal info data.

 

[Maxxify]

It's definitely possible but generally unlikely. I'd have to see the SMART values to let you know because they don't always read correctly.

 

[Pextaxmx]

here's the data saved from crystal info. (via ancient SATA1 to USB2.0 adapter. The numeric values were same earlier via system primary SATA3 port)
Can you please take a look and give an opinion whether it might have been altered?
Thanks,

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2) SAMSUNG MZ7WD480HCGM-00003
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enclosure : Disk Name USB Device (V=152D, P=2509, jm1) - sg
Model : SAMSUNG MZ7WD480HCGM-00003
Firmware : DXM9203Q
Serial Number :
Disk Size : 480.1 GB (8.4/137.4/480.1/480.1)
Buffer Size : Unknown
Queue Depth : 32
# of Sectors : 937703088
Rotation Rate : ---- (SSD)
Interface : USB (Serial ATA)
Major Version : ACS-2
Minor Version : ATA8-ACS version 4c
Transfer Mode : SATA/150 | SATA/600
Power On Hours : 14 hours
Power On Count : 12 count
Host Writes : 194 GB
Wear Level Count : 0
Temperature : 30 C (86 F)
Health Status : Good (100 %)
Features : S.M.A.R.T., 48bit LBA, NCQ, TRIM, DevSleep
APM Level : ----
AAM Level : ----
Drive Letter :

-- S.M.A.R.T. --------------------------------------------------------------
ID Cur Wor Thr RawValues(6) Attribute Name
05 100 100 _10 000000000000 Reallocated Sector Count
09 _99 _99 __0 00000000000E Power-on Hours
0C _99 _99 __0 00000000000C Power-on Count
B1 100 100 __5 000000000000 Wear Leveling Count
B3 100 100 _10 000000000000 Used Reserved Block Count (Total)
B4 100 100 _10 000000002641 Unused Reserved Block Count (Total)
B5 100 100 __0 000000000000 Program Fail Count (Total)
B6 100 100 __0 000000000000 Erase Fail Count (Total)
B7 100 100 _10 000000000000 Runtime Bad Block (Total)
B8 100 100 _97 000000000000 Error Detection
BB 100 100 __0 000000000000 Uncorrectable Error Count
BE _70 _52 __0 00000000001E Airflow Temperature
C3 200 200 __0 000000000000 ECC Error Rate
C7 100 100 __0 000000000000 CRC Error Count
CA 100 100 _10 000000000000 SSD Mode Status
EB _99 _99 __0 000000000008 POR Recovery Count
F1 _99 _99 __0 0000184B6D48 Total LBAs Written

-- IDENTIFY_DEVICE ---------------------------------------------------------
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
000: 0040 3FFF C837 0010 0000 0000 003F 0000 0000 0000
010: 5331 4731 4E59 4147 3833 3031 3439 2020 2020 2020
020: 0000 0000 0000 4458 4D39 3230 3351 5341 4D53 554E
030: 4720 4D5A 3757 4434 3830 4843 474D 2D30 3030 3033
040: 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 8010 4000 2F00
050: 4000 0200 0200 0007 3FFF 0010 003F FC10 00FB B110
060: FFFF 0FFF 0000 0007 0003 0078 0078 0078 0078 4E30
070: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 001F 850E 0042 0164 0060
080: 03FC 0039 746B 7D01 4163 7469 BC01 4163 407F 0001
090: 0001 0000 FFFE 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
100: 36B0 37E4 0000 0000 0000 0008 4000 0000 5002 5385
110: 002D A6B0 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 401E
120: 401C 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0021 0000
130: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
140: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
150: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
160: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001
170: 2020 2020 2020 2020 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
180: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
190: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
200: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 003D 0000 0000 4000
210: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000
220: 0000 0000 107F 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
230: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0800 0000 0000 0000 0000
240: 0000 0000 0000 4000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
250: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 E9A5

-- SMART_READ_DATA ---------------------------------------------------------
+0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +A +B +C +D +E +F
000: 01 00 05 33 00 64 64 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 09 32
010: 00 63 63 0E 00 00 00 00 00 00 0C 32 00 63 63 0C
020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 B1 13 00 64 64 00 00 00 00 00
030: 00 00 B3 13 00 64 64 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B4 13
040: 00 64 64 41 26 00 00 00 00 00 B5 32 00 64 64 00
050: 00 00 00 00 00 00 B6 32 00 64 64 00 00 00 00 00
060: 00 00 B7 13 00 64 64 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B8 33
070: 00 64 64 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 BB 32 00 64 64 00
080: 00 00 00 00 00 00 BE 32 00 46 34 1E 00 00 00 00
090: 00 00 C3 1A 00 C8 C8 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C7 3E
0A0: 00 64 64 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA 33 00 64 64 00
0B0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 EB 12 00 63 63 08 00 00 00 00
0C0: 00 00 F1 32 00 63 63 48 6D 4B 18 00 00 00 00 00
0D0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
0E0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
0F0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
100: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
110: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
120: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
130: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
140: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
150: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
160: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 34 08 00 53
170: 03 00 01 00 02 23 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
180: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
190: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1A0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1B0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1C0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1D0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1E0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1F0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 6C

-- SMART_READ_THRESHOLD ----------------------------------------------------
+0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +A +B +C +D +E +F
000: 01 00 05 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 09 00
010: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0C 00 00 00 00 00
020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 B1 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
030: 00 00 B3 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B4 0A
040: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B5 00 00 00 00 00
050: 00 00 00 00 00 00 B6 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
060: 00 00 B7 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B8 61
070: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 BB 00 00 00 00 00
080: 00 00 00 00 00 00 BE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
090: 00 00 C3 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C7 00
0A0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CA 0A 00 00 00 00
0B0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 EB 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
0C0: 00 00 F1 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
0D0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
0E0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
0F0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
100: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
110: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
120: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
130: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
140: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
150: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
160: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
170: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
180: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
190: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1A0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1B0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1C0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1D0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1E0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1F0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B2

 

[Maxxify]

The numbers line up with each other, but it looks like the drive was virtually unused. Looks like someone put an OS on it, that OS had trouble with power loss, then they sold it. Absolutely no idea why but that does happen - I don't generally see people going to the trouble of resetting SMART data unless the source is really sketchy (e.g. China). The average user won't have the tools or inclination to do it.

 

[USAFRet]

The numbers line up with each other, but it looks like the drive was virtually unused. Looks like someone put an OS on it, that OS had trouble with power loss, then they sold it. Absolutely no idea why but that does happen - I don't generally see people going to the trouble of resetting SMART data unless the source is really sketchy (e.g. China). The average user won't have the tools or inclination to do it.

Agreed.
It is a used drive. Bought as used. Whether it has 10 hours or 1000 on it...used is used.

I agree with someone bought it, had little or no use for it, and sold it on.

In any case, it will work, right up until the moment it dies.
That may be next week or next decade.

 

[Pextaxmx]

Thank you for the reply. Do you care to elaborate a bit for me what you meant by "numbers lineup with each other"? I am trying to learn here. Thanks again.

 

[USAFRet]

Thank you for the reply. Do you care to elaborate a bit for me what you meant by "numbers lineup with each other"? I am trying to learn here. Thanks again.

--------------
Power On Hours : 14 hours
Power On Count : 12 count
Host Writes : 194 GB
--------------

It was used for a couple of days, possibly tried to install an OS on it, several reboots later...



For instance, if it had been:
Power On Hours : 2 hours
Power On Count : 135 count
Host Writes : 2 GB
--------------------
That might indicate an issue. So many Power On in such a short time.

 

[Maxxify]

Also these three values:
BE _70 _52 __0 00000000001E Airflow Temperature
EB _99 _99 __0 000000000008 POR Recovery Count
F1 _99 _99 __0 0000184B6D48 Total LBAs Written

Temperature is given from 100, such that 70 would be "30" which in hex is "1E." The worst ever was 52 (48C) which is perfectly reasonable. POR implies power loss count, 8 with how many power-ons the drive lists (12) suggests the person installed an OS and had issues with system stability, likely the reason they stopped using the drive. Total LBAs (sectors) written times 512 (bytes per sector) should match the host writes, which is does.

The reserved block count is ridiculously high by today's standards, but it's an enterprise drive with more than usual overprovisioning and 2D/planar eMLC (enterprise MLC) back then had very small block sizes in comparison. Someone dialing in low/random values would unlikely get these correct (or care to).

 

[fzabkar]

The reserved block count is ridiculously high by today's standards, but it's an enterprise drive with more than usual overprovisioning and 2D/planar eMLC (enterprise MLC) back then had very small block sizes in comparison. Someone dialing in low/random values would unlikely get these correct (or care to).

The commercial software tools usually have a single button for resetting the SMART module. This initialises the attributes to their factory defaults. In fact WD HDDs have SMART templates for this purpose. I suspect that SSDs would behave similarly.

 

[Maxxify]

I know...I have access to many such tools...I still advocate that it's not a common practice as you need JTAG to do it right - but I would always vet the seller first.

 

[Pextaxmx]

Which means "numbers lining up" does not prove that SMART is not modified by the seller because the factory reset of SMART and accumlating small usage trace will make fake but believable SMART data - am I right?
The seller was advertising his whole batch of used datacenter grade SSD's were all 16hrs or under power hrs. Am I wrong to be suspicious here? Considering how pricy SSD's were back in 2015?

 

[USAFRet]

Which means "numbers lining up" does not prove that SMART is not modified by the seller because the factory reset of SMART and accumlating small usage trace will make fake but believable SMART data - am I right?
The seller was advertising his whole batch of used datacenter grade SSD's were all 16hrs or under power hrs. Am I wrong to be suspicious here? Considering how pricy SSD's were back in 2015?

The only "proven" device is direct from the manufacturer in a factory sealed box.
You bought a used device on fleabay.

It may last a day, it may last a decade. No matter what numbers are presented.

 

[Pextaxmx]

That is exactly what I learned by posting a question here. I didn't know SMART can be modified by anyone who has the right tool.

 

[fzabkar]

PC3000 SSD costs 5000 EUD or more.

 

[dreamteam]

--------------
Power On Hours : 14 hours
Power On Count : 12 count
Host Writes : 194 GB
--------------
It was used for a couple of days, possibly tried to install an OS on it, several reboots later...


For instance, if it had been:
Power On Hours : 2 hours
Power On Count : 135 count
Host Writes : 2 GB
--------------------
That might indicate an issue. So many Power On in such a short time.

after a long search on google I found this interesting thread.
so anyone with a software utility like the ruzzian pc-3000 (see post #2) could just re-flash the firmware of a Samsung SSD and reset all counters to zero.

this seller told me he doesn't have the original box (samsung packaging) and has other HDD's for sale too.

serial number has not been registered so I could still get the 10-year warranty period in case the SSD starts failing.

is it worth buying these SSD for around 50 bucks ?
this is the description next to each SSD:
“Opened and tested, 100% wear remaining, soak tested for 5-hours with no issues.”

 

[Lafong]

is it worth buying these SSD for around 50 bucks ?

"Worth" is personal to you alone.

A new Samsung 1 TB is about 100.

No one can possibly tell you how long a new one or a used one will last or whether you will ultimately be unhappy. I assume you have no idea about the trustworthiness of the seller.

If you buy the used one for 50 and have major issues, would you shrug your shoulders, throw it away and forget it, just as if you'd lost a 50 dollar bet?

Or would you engage in some sort of back and forth with the seller or Samsung customer service to try to get some satisfaction/refund/replacement, etc?

I don't know about you, but I would never consider the used one UNLESS I was perfectly willing to regard it as a gambling loss and simply throw it away if unhappy.....purely to avoid further frustration and blood pressure issues. You may have a completely different attitude and be willing to endure hassles to try to recover something.

 

[dreamteam]

A new Samsung 1 TB is about 100.

there are thousands offers so you can find a lot of things NIB for a fraction of their original pricing
I am seeking specific Samsung model series due to compatibility reasons
if I was the random consumer who gets happy with garbage quality like seen on the QVO series ones....
I don't even need 1TB of free space, with 256GB I'm fine

I assume you have no idea about the trustworthiness of the seller.

I have had multiple experiences with sellers.
I bought one supposedly NIB from a USA seller.... I received instead an used Fujitsu HDD inside the same box and my money back too. I also realized that some sellers are allowed to delete the negative reports (feedback) from their profile...unbelievable!

another seller from UK had several for sale NIB, so I bought one and received it sealed and unused
if I knew it was a trustable seller I could have bought more but they sell too fast like hot cakes.

another seller from France advertised his SSD as NIB, he shipped it before I made the payment. (anyway I can't pay because of system issues so it's not my fault)
received it for free and guess what, it was used and healthy enough, barely 6TB total hosts writes and in theory it's rated to last 300TB, for my personal use that is many years ahead....

If you buy the used one for 50 and have major issues, would you shrug your shoulders, throw it away and forget it, just as if you'd lost a 50 dollar bet?

Or would you engage in some sort of back and forth with the seller or Samsung customer service to try to get some satisfaction/refund/replacement, etc?

if they offer a 10-year limited warranty why no to take profit of it ?
I could also find a way to virtually damage the SSD and send it in to service center so they return me a new one because I would not accept something repaired.

 

[USAFRet]

Worth is only something you can decide.

But if your requirement is an 850 Pro, your purchasing options are very limited.

How well do you trust the seller?

 

[dreamteam]

But if your requirement is an 850 Pro, your purchasing options are very limited.

How well do you trust the seller?

the username of this seller makes me think it's not a individual (home) user but rather a shop or a technician who sells used or repaired stuff.

I kind of feel a bit confident because there's a crystal disk info screenshot (not photoshoped) for every listed hard drive but this is proof of nothing

sometimes one can think it's the typical scammer until we get proven wrong.
however others with very positive feeback and some privileges are true crocks

I still can not understand what kind of bench test was done to achieve the 110 power on count over 5 hours

I registered yesterday a brand new Samsung SSD made in 2017 and the warranty will expire in december 2031
it's not hard to get past the 10-year limited warranty if we want, however Western Digital drives warranty period is mostly based on the manufacturing date and not on the register date
I would not buy used HDD's because they are very fragile and most of the time they are up for sale because the seller felt something went bad.

 

[USAFRet]

the username of this seller makes me think it's not a individual (home) user but rather a shop or a technician who sells used or repaired stuff.


however others with very positive feeback and some privileges are true crocks

And I got burned on the OS for a refurbished laptop, from a "reputable" reseller on Newegg.

$200 refurb Asus 2-1 laptop.
Originally came with Win 10 Home.
The Newegg listing only said "Windows 10"
I got it, was Win 10 Pro.

Odd, but OK.

Exactly 6 months later, it Unactivated itself.
This turned into a circle jerk between Asus, Newegg, the refurbisher, and Microsoft. All pointing fingers at each other.
With me, the irate owner, as the pivot man.

I put that one down to simple incompetence.
All he had to do was to install what was originally there, Win 10 Home.
It would have automagically activated in perpetuity.

Instead of a not-valid Win 10 Pro from some theoretical corporate source, which unactivated itself after not being able to contact the corporate key management server in 180 days.

I eventually got it resolved.

Just saying that appearances are not always what they seem.

 

[dreamteam]

Instead of a not-valid Win 10 Pro from some theoretical corporate source, which unactivated itself after not being able to contact the corporate key management server in 180 days.

didn't know this was even possible... maybe you got it with a ''fake activation''