v305: long bow maths... Bard or Belthronding

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Hi People,

I just found Belthronding, and wanted to know if swap it for Bard.

However, my damage maths have never been good, so I ask for advice, and please,
if You could explain your maths with details, that would be excellent...

So with The Long Bow 'Belthronding' (x3) (+20,+22) (+1), I got:
4 shots/turn
+1 shooting speed
shooting (+59,+22) (from char dump)

and with The Long Bow of Bard (x3) (+17,+19) (+2), I got:
3 shots/turn
+2 shooting power
shooting (+57,+19)

So, Belthronding damage is something like:
4 (shots/turn) x 3 (bow power) x 22 (bow damage) = 264

While Bard is:
3 x (3+2) x 19 = 285

I have the feeling I am missing something important here, since I read in other
post that Belthronding is better bow than Bard... I already have RDis, so I am
only focused on bow damage right now (+1 speed is not that important, right?)

Regards,

Leo

--
A(3.0.5) C "Weichafe I" hER L:50 DL:72 A+ R++ Sp w:Calris/Bard
AW H- D- c f- PV+ s++ TT? d P++ M+
C-- S- I- So- B-- ac !GHB SQ? !RQ V?
 
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For Ranger, Bard is better:
(3 shots) x (5 multiplier) = 15 bard
(4 shots) x (3 multiplier) = 12 Belthronding

For all other classes, Belthronding is better:

(1 shot) x (5) = 5 bard
(2 shots) x (3) = 6 Belthronding

To calculate damage, you ask what are you multiplying by?
Answer: The entire amount of damage from the arrow.

eg: seeker arrows 4d4 (+9,+9)
Damage:
4d4 = 10 avg. + 9 from arrow + 19 from Bard = 38 total damage.

38 * 15 = 570 per round.

If the arrow has a brand, then you multiply again, 3x for all slays and brands,
or 2x for slay evil.


Of general interest to the whole newsgroup is something else I've noticed from
the comp threads.

Since turn count has become a big issue to consider now, the prevailing might
vs. shots wisdom
on range weapons is worth re-considering. If turn count matters, your total
damage to Morgoth (as
well as other slay/brand-vulnerable uniques) is limited by the amount of your
ammo. Certainly
a +shots range weapon allows you to dish out more damage _per round_ than a
+might weapon.
On the other hand, if you don't mind staying more rounds, a +might weapon will
allow you to dish
out more damage _per arrow/shot/bolt_, giving your mithril/seeker holy
might/slay evil ammo
that much greater power.

My gut feeling is that if I had a choice between xBow of +2 might vs. +1 shots
in the final battle,
and I only had 1-2 stacks of seeker holy might bolts, I would go with the might.
That's an increase
of 50% more damage per arrow. Sure it takes you twice as many rounds to only do
150% of the damage, but under the traditional method, your stuck shooting
non-slay bolts for the other rounds,
and that's only 50% of the damage anyways.

--
Gallowglass
 

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Hi Leo,

For best results, this sort of post should be prefixed with [Timo] ...
;-)

Your Angband Code indicates that you are playing a ranger, so in this
case Bard is definitely better.

CC
 
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Leo Lagos wrote:
> Hi People,
>
> I just found Belthronding, and wanted to know if swap it for Bard.

> I have the feeling I am missing something important here, since I read in other
> post that Belthronding is better bow than Bard... I already have RDis, so I am
> only focused on bow damage right now (+1 speed is not that important, right?)

For Ranger x5 might bow is better than x2 shots x3 might bow.

3*5 = 15 while 4*3 = 12. You get better multiplier with *2 might.

Note that this applies to arrows as well as bow itself, so with branded
arrows and good to_dam Bard is noticeably better than Belthronding.


Lets say you have ordinary firebranded arrows with (+5,+5).

Bard: (2.5+5+19) * 3(brand) * 5 (might) * 3 (shots) = 1192.5

Belthronding: (2.5+5+19) * 3(brand) * 3 (might) * 4 (shots) = 954

Note that Bard is not necessarily best weapon into game for ranger. I
have seen in one of the Character Dumps posted here Lothlorien bow with
over 20 to_dam and +2 might. This of course is very rare, but possible.

Timo Pietilä
 
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On 2005-04-20 10:25:08, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Timo_Pietil�?=
<timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> wrote:


> Note that Bard is not necessarily best weapon into game for ranger. I
> have seen in one of the Character Dumps posted here Lothlorien bow with
> over 20 to_dam and +2 might. This of course is very rare, but possible.
>
> Timo Pietil�
>
>
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/browse_frm/thread/adee99421ff9dd26/0c62e9787f9d8860?q=long+bow+moron&rnum=1#0c62e9787f9d8860

b) The Long Bow 'Moron' (x3) (+12,+22) (+3) {LV 3200'}
It increases your intelligence and charisma by 3. It increases your
shooting power by 3. It provides resistance to sound. It sustains
your constitution and charisma. It speeds your regeneration. It
cannot be harmed by the elements.

--
Gallowglass
 
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On 2005-04-20 18:56:25, Gallowglass <spam16384@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/browse_frm/thread/adee99421ff9dd26/0c62e9787f9d8860?q=long+bow+moron&rnum=1#0c62e9787f9d8860
>
> b) The Long Bow 'Moron' (x3) (+12,+22) (+3) {LV 3200'}
> It increases your intelligence and charisma by 3. It increases your
> shooting power by 3. It provides resistance to sound. It sustains
> your constitution and charisma. It speeds your regeneration. It
> cannot be harmed by the elements.

This artifact bow is not in v305... that dump is for 3.0.4 beta 1... maybe it
was removed for some reason?

I checked oook and lib/edit/artifact.txt. No need to look at the sources,
right?

¿?

Regards,

Leo
 
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On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:36:31 +0000 (UTC), Leo Lagos
<leo.lagos@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2005-04-20 18:56:25, Gallowglass <spam16384@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/browse_frm/thread/adee99421ff9dd26/0c62e9787f9d8860?q=long+bow+moron&rnum=1#0c62e9787f9d8860
>>
>> b) The Long Bow 'Moron' (x3) (+12,+22) (+3) {LV 3200'}
>> It increases your intelligence and charisma by 3. It increases your
>> shooting power by 3. It provides resistance to sound. It sustains
>> your constitution and charisma. It speeds your regeneration. It
>> cannot be harmed by the elements.
>
>This artifact bow is not in v305... that dump is for 3.0.4 beta 1... maybe it
>was removed for some reason?
>
>I checked oook and lib/edit/artifact.txt. No need to look at the sources,
>right?

Yes, you'd look in randart.c if you wanted to know more. This is a
random artifact. In standard Angband, there is a birth option to
randomize artifact, which causes (nearly all) artifacts to be replaced
by random artifacts of (theoretically) roughly equal value.

R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
 
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On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:36:31 +0000 (UTC), Leo Lagos wrote:

>On 2005-04-20 18:56:25, Gallowglass <spam16384@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/browse_frm/thread/adee99421ff9dd26/0c62e9787f9d8860?q=long+bow+moron&rnum=1#0c62e9787f9d8860
>>
>> b) The Long Bow 'Moron' (x3) (+12,+22) (+3) {LV 3200'}
>> It increases your intelligence and charisma by 3. It increases your
>> shooting power by 3. It provides resistance to sound. It sustains
>> your constitution and charisma. It speeds your regeneration. It
>> cannot be harmed by the elements.
>
>This artifact bow is not in v305... that dump is for 3.0.4 beta 1... maybe it
>was removed for some reason?
>
>I checked oook and lib/edit/artifact.txt. No need to look at the sources,
>right?
>
>¿?
>
>Regards,
>
>Leo

Hi Leo,

Adult: Randomize some of the artifacts (beta): yes
(adult_rand_artifacts)


Best, Hugo
--
Your sig line (k) was stolen! (more)
There is a puff of smoke!

(Remove NO and SPAM to get my e-mail address)
 
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On 2005-04-20 10:25:08, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Timo_Pietilä?=
<timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
> Note that Bard is not necessarily best weapon into game for ranger. I
> have seen in one of the Character Dumps posted here Lothlorien bow with
> over 20 to_dam and +2 might. This of course is very rare, but possible.
>
> Timo Pietilä
>

Not to mention that the Lothlorien Bow could have ESP too. ESP from the Bow slot
opens up all kinds of nice choises in equipment set ups.

--
--

Anssi Ramela

anssi.ramela@myy.helia.fi
 
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Gallowglass wrote:
> On 2005-04-20 10:25:08, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Timo_Pietil�?=
> <timo.pietila@helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
>>Note that Bard is not necessarily best weapon into game for ranger. I
>>have seen in one of the Character Dumps posted here Lothlorien bow with
>>over 20 to_dam and +2 might. This of course is very rare, but possible.
>>
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/browse_frm/thread/adee99421ff9dd26/0c62e9787f9d8860?q=long+bow+moron&rnum=1#0c62e9787f9d8860
>
> b) The Long Bow 'Moron' (x3) (+12,+22) (+3) {LV 3200'}
> It increases your intelligence and charisma by 3. It increases your
> shooting power by 3. It provides resistance to sound. It sustains
> your constitution and charisma. It speeds your regeneration. It
> cannot be harmed by the elements.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/browse_thread/thread/48c05c27dcceb64c/dacc860146db34c1?q=Lothlorien+group:rec.games.roguelike.angband+insubject:YACD&rnum=8&hl=en#dacc860146db34c1


Timo Pietilä
 
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On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:56:25 +0000 (UTC), Gallowglass
<spam16384@yahoo.com> wrote:

> b) The Long Bow 'Moron' (x3) (+12,+22) (+3) {LV 3200'}
> It increases your intelligence and charisma by 3. It increases your
> shooting power by 3. It provides resistance to sound. It sustains
> your constitution and charisma. It speeds your regeneration. It
> cannot be harmed by the elements.

So named because of being a "no-brainer", I assume. :)

R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com