Valve Says Its Anti-cheat System Doesn't Spy on Users

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dalethepcman

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"Valve does not collect a user's browser history, Valve does not care about what porn sites the user visits, and Valve is not using the success of Steam to go evil."

Seriously though, if your cheating in an online game and worried about steam seeing the porn your browsing on the internet or whats in your DNS cache you should probably get out of the garage/attic/basement a bit more.

Google already knows everything your doing and you don't see the NSA/DHS knocking on your door for downloading midget clown bestiality pron...

"Who watches the watchmen?" /TinFoilHat.....
 

edogawa

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That is a delayed system in terms of months.
Cheaters learn, and adapt, they probably use separate accounts.
Those games are always dirt cheap, so you can make 5 accounts for the price of 1.
It does not function good in short or long term.
Active admins are most effective.
 

SpadeM

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Biggest problem with VAC is not the delayed banning or checking for DNS cache entries that shouldn't belong. It's the fact that even for really old spin hacks, autoaims, wall hacks, the system does nothing. It doesn't ban the user automatically for hacks that have already been exposed.I'm all for sneakiness and what not, but when someone goes on a server with a 5 year old hack and blasts away at the opponents then ... 570 banned player out of millions isn't even scratching the surface.
 

razor512

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The issue is that VAC does not work with the community.If they wante d to, they can implement a spam free support system by creating a vac screen recorder, and a report system for users with a paid game. False reports can be further be reduced by adding a warning system and ultimate account ban for false reports.This way, if there is a user who is clearly cheating, it can be recorded, then sent to valve. They can the monitor that user more closely to determine which Cheat is being used, then ban everyone using it.That would e better than their current me this that only focuses on cheats that their staff stumbles on.
 

cTs Corvette

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Biggest problem with VAC is not the delayed banning or checking for DNS cache entries that shouldn't belong. It's the fact that even for really old spin hacks, autoaims, wall hacks, the system does nothing. It doesn't ban the user automatically for hacks that have already been exposed.I'm all for sneakiness and what not, but when someone goes on a server with a 5 year old hack and blasts away at the opponents then ... 570 banned player out of millions isn't even scratching the surface.
I've been a server admin for a very long time, and I actually don't mind those sorts of hacks. By that I mean that they are blatantly obvious, which makes my life easy. Yeah, it's silly that a 5 year old spin hack still works, but I'd much rather that Valve concentrate on the sneaky new stuff than worry about the stuff that anyone who's played for more than a day can easily spot.
 

AndrewJacksonZA

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Wait wait wait. So you're telling me that in order not to get banned by this automated tool, a user - a client of yours! - MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT have visited or contacted certain IP addresses on the internet? So in other words, exchange part of your freedom to use your machine that you own how you want to for the privileged of playing our game?

Yes, granted, the possibility of a client of yours that isn't cheating who visits or contacts those servers is very, very low, but it's the principle that I'm questioning. Slippery slope*? Yep, I think so, especially when I stop and take a look at how rights have been steadily more and more eroded in the United States and elsewhere.

NOTE: I'm not comparing Valve to the NSA, I'm saying that if Valve continues to use a practice of restricting where their clients can go in order to use their software, what's to stop others from following their lead? Already I can't have e.g. SysInternal's ProcessExplorer running while playing certain games due to DRM, never mind the fact that it's my own machine and I should be able to run whatever I please on it because it's _MY_ machine.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
 

neiroatopelcc

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Since I cheat whereever possible I generally don't play VAC enabled games. But luckily they're few to begin with and mostly limited to fps which isn't my boat anyway. From my point of view, if I purchase a game and want to cheat in it, I don't see why anyone else should be allowed to stop me. It's different for mmo style games ofc, but they're not as susceptible to cheats anyway.In any event, if I find Deus Ex or Sim City being too hard, I want to be allowed to add more money or whatever it is that I need. Once I purchase a license to a game, I purchase the right to play it the way I wish ; at least that's my point of view.
 

ddpruitt

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MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT have visited or contacted certain IP addresses on the internet? So in other words, exchange part of your freedom to use your machine that you own how you want to for the privileged of playing our game?
No that's not what he's saying at all. Before you get on your soap box you should gain some basic comprehension skills. Besides like others said, I don't mind Valve spying on my midget porn if it keeps bans cheater's who ruin games. On a similar note learn to have some fun and play the game without cheats.
 

neiroatopelcc

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That is exceptionally narrowminded. Because you enjoy playing a game in a certain way, you assume that is the only way to play the game and have fun? I obviously do not agree with that assessment. Some people enjoy restoring cars, some enjoy racing them, some love modifying them and others enjoy just looking at them. All of those are legit reasons to be involved with cars.
The same should apply to electronic entertainment, and in this specific case gaming.

Besides, you imply that cheating ruins a game. Again this is incredibly narrowminded and suits only the simplest of minds. It CAN ruin a game, but it could also improve it. Cheating in Gnomoria makes the game more fun for example. Modding Flatout 2, and thus cheating, makes the game even better in multiplayer than it already was.
 

onebrokendownhorse

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Cheating online is a plague to non cheaters and to find yourself being owned by cheater is enraging good for Value for what they are doing. I will trust the company until proven otherwise and thank you Valve for posting.
 

AndrewJacksonZA

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No that's not what he's saying at all. Before you get on your soap box you should gain some basic comprehension skills. Besides like others said, I don't mind Valve spying on my midget porn if it keeps bans cheater's who ruin games. On a similar note learn to have some fun and play the game without cheats.
Thanks for your input ddpruitt. This is the part that I'm referring to:
check was done by looking for a partial match to those (non-web) cheat DRM servers in the DNS cache.
I'll say it again: "Yes, granted, the possibility of a client of yours that isn't cheating who visits or contacts those servers is very, very low, but it's the principle that I'm questioning." If the VAC detects whatever it thinks is dodgy code, and then check the DNS cache and finds entries matching cheat servers, then I would imagine that the probability that the person is cheating is near 100%. Great. Nail the cheaters. They spoil it for everyone else.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against not finding the people who ruin experiences for everyone else. It's the principle of forcing on your clients the restriction of what they can and can't do on the hardware /that they own and probably built themselves/ just so that they can run the software that they paid for that I'm questioning. Unless they change their purchase contract to "pay us x amount of money, don't run y programs and don't contact z servers and then we'll let you play our game" I think that's pretty dodgy.

Do we need ways of preventing people from ruining the online experiences of others? Yes.
Should we do that by taking away the freedom of use that people have over their own hardware? That's debatable, but in my opinion, no.

And for the record, I create non-free, propriety non-open source software as a job.
 
G

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Wait wait wait. So you're telling me that in order not to get banned by this automated tool, a user - a client of yours! - MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT have visited or contacted certain IP addresses on the internet?
There is a large difference between a website and a domain/IP address. The addresses they choose are not consumer web sites, but basically web facing bot net servers. It's somebody's personal website that serves as a control/reporting point for their illicit software.This is not about where you can and can not go at all.
That is exceptionally narrowminded. Because you enjoy playing a game in a certain way, you assume that is the only way to play the game and have fun? I obviously do not agree with that assessment. Some people enjoy restoring cars, some enjoy racing them, some love modifying them and others enjoy just looking at them. All of those are legit reasons to be involved with cars. The same should apply to electronic entertainment, and in this specific case gaming. Besides, you imply that cheating ruins a game. Again this is incredibly narrowminded and suits only the simplest of minds. It CAN ruin a game, but it could also improve it. Cheating in Gnomoria makes the game more fun for example. Modding Flatout 2, and thus cheating, makes the game even better in multiplayer than it already was.
1) Steam and VAC are not anti modding in the slightest, in fact in 2012/13 they released an entire platform for modding and custom content for steam games and have become a HUGE force for increasing mod participation.... clearly cheating is not modding.2)VAC is not purely anti-cheating, it's a multiplayer / server protection tool. VAC does not run every time you start up steam but instead when you join a VAC protected server. The purpose being to provide some kind of attempted standard to make standard multi player servers available and enjoyable for everybody.Hell, even then, if you want to cheat online you can start your own server and un-check the VAC box and allow cheating. So far you are 0/0 on talking points. Clearly you have no idea of anything you are talking about. I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to call us all narrow-minded simpletons, your highness. Your judgement is much appreciated.
 

bloodroses75

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Honestly, I don't care what Valve does, as long as it does indeed stop the cheaters/hackers. You wouldn't believe how many games I've quit due to hackers. Plus their policy is a lot better than Aeria games who just mass bans everyone in a room if even 1 person hacks. Me and a friend of mine took a screen shot of someone hacking in Wolfteam and sent it to Aeria to handle it. They ended up banning everyone in the room, including us. Valve is definitely not as bad as that.
 

neiroatopelcc

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1) Modding is cheating in the simplest sense of it. It's changing the working parameters of the game. It may be accepted cheating by Valve, but it still is cheating by definition. And I am not limiting this to what VAC does, I'm speaking of cheating in the broader sense, where someone else wants to tell me how to enjoy the product I purchase.
2) You may not agree with me, but that is your choice. I do know what I'm talking about though. You're telling me VAC doesn't always run, and on a philosophical level I assume you're correct. But on a technical level you can't be. In order for steam to find those cheats it mentions, it'd have to run elevated. It accomplishes this by using the steam service which autoloads on startup and runs as BUILTIN\SYSTEM. Therefore technically it is always running. Despite this they can ofcourse choose only to invoke the anticheat functions when a VAC enabled game is in progress. But it is always running. Just like punkbuster. The service just has a different name and serveral functions.
3) I believe your scoring system is as flawed as your ignorance grand. If you don't like it, you give zero points. That sort of scoring system is one sided and frankly a waste of my time.
 

n1xon

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Wait wait wait. So you're telling me that in order not to get banned by this automated tool, a user - a client of yours! - MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT have visited or contacted certain IP addresses on the internet? So in other words, exchange part of your freedom to use your machine that you own how you want to for the privileged of playing our game?Yes, granted, the possibility of a client of yours that isn't cheating who visits or contacts those servers is very, very low, but it's the principle that I'm questioning. Slippery slope*? Yep, I think so, especially when I stop and take a look at how rights have been steadily more and more eroded in the United States and elsewhere.NOTE: I'm not comparing Valve to the NSA, I'm saying that if Valve continues to use a practice of restricting where their clients can go in order to use their software, what's to stop others from following their lead? Already I can't have e.g. SysInternal's ProcessExplorer running while playing certain games due to DRM, never mind the fact that it's my own machine and I should be able to run whatever I please on it because it's _MY_ machine.*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
Stop looking at cheat selling websites cheater.
 
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