[SOLVED] Video card woes

[Ineedanewusername4561]

So, in January I posted looking for some advice on a new build. The thread is here:

[SOLVED] - New build advice

My computer is starting to really show its age and run rather slow/having performance issues running the latest software so I am thinking about putting together a new system but not sure where to even start with the components. I put this together 7 years ago and never updated it other than...

forums.tomshardware.com

The system suggested and that I was likely to stick somewhat closely to was (from g-unit1111):
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.99 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Slim CPU Cooler ($64.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard ($184.99 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($129.13 @ MemoryC)
Storage: Intel 665p 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($103.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 8 GB XC3 ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($499.99)

They convinced me to get a new monitor as well and I may possible look into VR but that will be a bit later.

I really got dead set on getting a 3070 for this build. I was willing to wait but this is getting silly as there is no end in sight that I can see to actually acquire one of these unicorns. Are there any comparable options or a possible stop gap like a good card I can put in THIS year and then get the 3070 maybe a year down the road without just lighting my money on fire.

For now I have just been trolling best buy hoping that I can get one before the scalpers but I have my doubts that will happen this year.

 

[cdrkf]

So, in January I posted looking for some advice on a new build. The thread is here:

[SOLVED] - New build advice

My computer is starting to really show its age and run rather slow/having performance issues running the latest software so I am thinking about putting together a new system but not sure where to even start with the components. I put this together 7 years ago and never updated it other than...

forums.tomshardware.com

The system suggested and that I was likely to stick somewhat closely to was (from g-unit1111):
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.99 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Slim CPU Cooler ($64.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard ($184.99 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($129.13 @ MemoryC)
Storage: Intel 665p 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($103.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 8 GB XC3 ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($499.99)

They convinced me to get a new monitor as well and I may possible look into VR but that will be a bit later.

I really got dead set on getting a 3070 for this build. I was willing to wait but this is getting silly as there is no end in sight that I can see to actually acquire one of these unicorns. Are there any comparable options or a possible stop gap like a good card I can put in THIS year and then get the 3070 maybe a year down the road without just lighting my money on fire.

For now I have just been trolling best buy hoping that I can get one before the scalpers but I have my doubts that will happen this year.

If you are looking for current cards, the AMD RX 6700XT is probably your best option.... it's a decent card (performance just under a 3070) which didn't get especially good reviews (as AMD set the RRP quite high vs Nvidias offerings) and is also very poor for mining. The upshot of all that is they are available and not at a massive price hike over RRP. I don't think there is much point looking at anything lower down the stack at the moment, looking at your sig I see you have an R9 290? That is still very capable and anything faster will be hugely over priced at the moment so the other option is hold on to the 290 for a bit longer.

 

[Ineedanewusername4561]

It looks like those are going for almost a grand as well. That is well beyond reason.

So I am stuck with this then

Decent card or not, my current system seems unable to keep up. I guess I may have to stick with hoping I will win the lottery.

 

[helper800]

It looks like those are going for almost a grand as well. That is well beyond reason.

So I am stuck with this then

Decent card or not, my current system seems unable to keep up. I guess I may have to stick with hoping I will win the lottery.

Look on the local used market for something in the 1660 - 2070s class of cards. You can occasionally see one for within-the-realm-of-reason pricing (250-450 dollars). My other advice would be to show up and go into ANY local PC shops whether they are builders, resellers, or computer repair shops. Make friends with them and get contact information to inquire at least weekly on when they get in stock or if they have any used cards from returned bad systems or B stock items with no issues. I managed to get my hands on 2 3080s for me and a friend through due diligence. Its harder than most are willing but not impossible by any means.

 

[Why_Me]

This build gives you onboard video until you can get your hands on a graphics card while allowing you to run that cpu 24/7 with the power limiter turned off.

https://www.provantage.com/msi-b560mbaz~7MSTB127.htm
MSI Mag B560M Bazooka $141.42

or ...

https://www.centralcomputer.com/asu...x-128gb-ddr4-1x-displayport-motasub56mpr.html
Asus TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS WIFI $149.95

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1621132-REG/intel_bx8070811400_core_i5_11400_2_6_ghz.html
Intel Core i5-11400 $188.99

https://www.amazon.com/Original-Design-Towers-Cooler-SCFM-2000/dp/B07QMK5R45
Scythe Fuma 2 CPU Heatsink $59.99

https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164176
Crucial Ballistix DDR4 3200MHz Desktop Gaming Memory Kit 16GB (8GBx2) CL16 $88.99

https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-blue-sn550-nvme-1tb/p/N82E16820250135
WD Blue SN550 NVMe M.2 2280 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal SSD $109.99 ($99.99 w/ promo code SSDMAY33)

Total: $580 w/MSI board
Total: $589 w/Asus board

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B560M-BAZOOKA

TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS WIFI｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS WIFI is an mATX motherboard for gamers, equipped with digital VRM with 8+1 Power stages, PCIe 4.0 support, DDR4 5000 MHz (OC) ,dual M.2 slots with flexible heatsink, Realtek 2.5Gb Ethernet, Intel® Wi-Fi 6, rear USB 3.2 Gen 2, front USB 3.2 Gen1 Type-C®, Thunderbolt™ header...

www.asus.com

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...ating-ryzens-budget-gaming-dominance.3701558/
Intel Core i5-11400 Review

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i5_11400f_processor_review,1.html
Intel Core i5-11400F Review

https://www.techspot.com/review/2232-intel-core-i5-11400f/
Intel Core i5-11400F Review

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOpWJCWYa6k

 

[Ineedanewusername4561]

This build gives you onboard video until you can get your hands on a graphics card while allowing you to run that cpu 24/7 with the power limiter turned off.

https://www.provantage.com/msi-b560mbaz~7MSTB127.htm
MSI Mag B560M Bazooka $141.42

or ...

https://www.centralcomputer.com/asu...x-128gb-ddr4-1x-displayport-motasub56mpr.html
Asus TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS WIFI $149.95

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1621132-REG/intel_bx8070811400_core_i5_11400_2_6_ghz.html
Intel Core i5-11400 $188.99

https://www.amazon.com/Original-Design-Towers-Cooler-SCFM-2000/dp/B07QMK5R45
Scythe Fuma 2 CPU Heatsink $59.99

https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164176
Crucial Ballistix DDR4 3200MHz Desktop Gaming Memory Kit 16GB (8GBx2) CL16 $88.99

https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-blue-sn550-nvme-1tb/p/N82E16820250135
WD Blue SN550 NVMe M.2 2280 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal SSD $109.99 ($99.99 w/ promo code SSDMAY33)

Total: $580 w/MSI board
Total: $589 w/Asus board

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B560M-BAZOOKA

TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS WIFI｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS WIFI is an mATX motherboard for gamers, equipped with digital VRM with 8+1 Power stages, PCIe 4.0 support, DDR4 5000 MHz (OC) ,dual M.2 slots with flexible heatsink, Realtek 2.5Gb Ethernet, Intel® Wi-Fi 6, rear USB 3.2 Gen 2, front USB 3.2 Gen1 Type-C®, Thunderbolt™ header...

www.asus.com

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...ating-ryzens-budget-gaming-dominance.3701558/
Intel Core i5-11400 Review

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i5_11400f_processor_review,1.html
Intel Core i5-11400F Review

https://www.techspot.com/review/2232-intel-core-i5-11400f/
Intel Core i5-11400F Review

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOpWJCWYa6k

Man, things change fast. It looks as though that cpu beats the one I was looking at a few months ago hands down and is cheaper.

Using on board graphics though is going to decrease performance from what I already have though even with improved hardware elsewhere, is it not? Seems counter productive. AFAIK, the PCIe slots have not changed in a long time though so I would be able to transfer over my card from my existing machine but, again, that pretty much means I would see zero gains. I do not think that I am mostly CPU bound atm though I do not know that for sure.

 

[Why_Me]

Man, things change fast. It looks as though that cpu beats the one I was looking at a few months ago hands down and is cheaper.

Using on board graphics though is going to decrease performance from what I already have though even with improved hardware elsewhere, is it not? Seems counter productive. AFAIK, the PCIe slots have not changed in a long time though so I would be able to transfer over my card from my existing machine but, again, that pretty much means I would see zero gains. I do not think that I am mostly CPU bound atm though I do not know that for sure.

The 11400F (non integrated graphics version) goes for $175 on average but it's been out of stock for the past three or four days now. =/

 

[Ineedanewusername4561]

The 11400F (non integrated graphics version) goes for $175 on average but it's been out of stock for the past three or four days now. =/

Meh, the price difference on a 1000 build of 10 bucks is not all that relevant. The lack of any realized gains is.

Do you think I would see a marked difference with or without using my card? Will most games even run on integrated graphics anymore?

 

[Why_Me]

Meh, the price difference on a 1000 build of 10 bucks is not all that relevant. The lack of any realized gains is.

Do you think I would see a marked difference with or without using my card?

GPU > onboard graphics

 

[cdrkf]

Meh, the price difference on a 1000 build of 10 bucks is not all that relevant. The lack of any realized gains is.

Do you think I would see a marked difference with or without using my card? Will most games even run on integrated graphics anymore?

The IGPU on the 11400 is capable of 720p medium settings in many games, 1080p low in e-sports type titles. The R9 290 is much more powerful so if you can transfer that over then that is the way to go.

In terms of performance after the update, you may see a decent performance bump in some situations even whilst keeping the 290, depending on what settings and what type of games. The 6 cores / 12 threads coupled with the much higher IPC of the 11th gen cpu will mean you should see better 1% and 0.1% performance even in primarily GPU bound games, whilst your average frame rate will be similar.

If you are into your e-sports type games, with competitive (i.e. low) settings, then you may well be CPU bound in these titles so you would probably see an uptick say in games like CS:GO. It's not going to be huge though as your current pairing is fairly well balanced.

The other thing that is going to really help your in game performance is moving from HDD based storage to ideally an NVME SSD - these are several orders of magnitude faster than even the fastest HDD's and have real impact on the smoothness of games. Many of the latest AAA titles load in assets on the fly, which causes noticeable frame stutters and pop-in if the storage is too slow. I think the move from a 4th Gen quad core cpu + HDD to an 11th Gen Hex Core + NVME would be quite noticeable even with the same gpu.

 

[Ineedanewusername4561]

.... mean you should see better 1% and 0.1% performance even in primarily GPU bound games

I am unfamiliar with that term. What do you mean by better 1% and .1%?

 

[cdrkf]

I am unfamiliar with that term. What do you mean by better 1% and .1%?

This is the measure used to determine consistency of frame rate, rather than just the average, this vid explains it well:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6WgbfG_z-k


Essentially changes in frame rate are very noticeable so for a game to feel smooth, the frames need to be delivered at a consistent rate without changing. Ideally the average, 1% and 0.1% rates should all be very close - so for example if you had one machine producing an average of 70fps with 1% of 65 and 0.1% of 60 FPS, that would be very consistent and should be a smooth experience, whilst another machine could have a higher average of say 100 fps, but if the 1% and 0.1% are much lower (e.g. 40 and 20) that would feel choppy by comparison even though the average rate is higher.