Video Editing - New Builder

rhino_43 · Oct 31, 2012

Hi! I've been following these forums for some time now, primarily as a supplement to some research I've done re: a new computer build. I'm fairly technically savvy, but not an expert by any means. I work full-time in PR/Marketing, but also do freelance writing and photography. The photography experience naturally evolved into video editing, and I'd like that to be another service I can offer as a freelancer. Knowing how you all like this info set up, and knowing you are all experienced users/builders, please see below for what I'm thinking. I welcome honest ideas and non-negative constructive criticism about the pros and cons of this potential build.

Primary purpose: HD video/audio editing and photo editing in CS6 with dual monitors. (Wedding and event videos, short documentaries, client work, fun projects)

Primary objective: To earn the cost of the build back in freelance dollars within 1 to 2 years, and to not have to "upgrade" this system for the duration of time it takes to achieve system payback.

Secondary purposes: Music/beat production (personal - I am a recreational hip hop artist), internet, home workstation for paying bills, tracking budgets and other general use.

No gaming -- I'm a dedicated gaming platform (360, PS3) guy.

Cost: I'd like to keep hardware costs between $1500 and $2000. (More details below on cost approximations for software, etc.)

That said, here it is:

UNIT BUILD

CASE
Corsair 500R Case ($140)

POWER
Corsair 850 Watt Gold ATX Power Block ($190)

MOBO
ASUS P8Z77-V PRO ($190)

PROCESSOR
Intel® Core i7-3770 Processor ($300)

COOLING
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo ($32)

RAM
(4) Corsair - Vengeance 4GB DDR3 (16GB TOTAL) ($80)

GRAPHICS
EVGA GTX 560 Ti 2GB 256-bit ($245)

DATA STORAGE (INTERNAL/OS)
Corsair Neutron 240GB SATA3 SSD ($200)

DATA STORAGE (EXTERNAL)
Toshiba-1TB External HD ($77)
(More Internal/external HDs to come later but no planned RAID setup -- since this is just freelance I'd back everything up manually on a second external HD if necessary.)

OPTICAL
LG Blu-Ray DVD±RW/CD-RW Drive ($103)

MONITOR(S)
ASUS VH236H LED (x2) ($340)

TOTAL FOR TOWER & MONITORS: $1897

SOFTWARE
Windows 7 ($200)
MS Office Suite ($100/year)
Adobe Creative Cloud ($50/month)
WAITING ON: Propellorhead Reason 6 ($350)
TOTAL: ($700)

So because I've never built anything like this, are there obvious flaws in my design/approach? Is there anything that may work "better" or parts that are perhaps more "compatible" than what I have listed here?

Other notes/things I'm not sure about:
Can get away with a lesser power block?
I decided against the 3770K as I don't plan to overclock.
Worried that the 212 EVO may have a clearance issue with the Vengeance sticks (but it looks like you can switch up the pull/push to accommodate).
The GTX 560 has CUDA cores that CS6 can take advantage of (I can't justify a Quadro).

I'd be happy to answer what I can if anyone has questions. Fire away folks!

g-unit1111 · Oct 31, 2012

Definitely keep the software in a separate budget.

There's no point in purchasing a 560TI anymore. The 660TI is around $299 and a far better GPU. If you can't afford a Quaddro maybe go for an ATI Fire Pro V5700 or V5800.

Don't get Vengeance RAM unless it's low profile. You don't need the cooler or a motherboard that expensive if you're not overclocking. You could get an H77 motherboard and save $100 there.

You could definitely get away with a less expensive power supply. If you buy today Newegg is having a special on the Seasonic X750 - an excellent supply for the money and it's fully modular at that.

Maybe try a build like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($289.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($87.55 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: ATI FirePro V5900 2GB Video Card ($429.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 500R White ATX Mid Tower Case ($119.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk II 750W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1448.46
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

I included a less expensive PSU (swap it for this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151087). I also included a Windows 8 license, a less expensive motherboard, and a professional GPU.

allanitomwesh · Oct 31, 2012

A Samsung 830 is better. Neutron GTX is the fast one.
There's vengeance LP with no clearance issues.
You can drop 150w on the psu safely. 650W /700W should do.
You can get a cheaper blu ray drive for sure. Around $70 .LG still.
Viewsonic Vx2336s is IPS.
Otherwise very nice.

excella1221 · Oct 31, 2012

+1 to everything g-unit said.

Get a 2x8gb RAM kit instead as well.
I don't believe Corsair is at the top of the SSD food chain, get the 256gb Samsung 830.

Everything else is good to go, unless you want suggestions for cheaper alternatives.

g-unit1111 · Oct 31, 2012

excella1221 :

I'm not sure if H77 will support 32GB of RAM or not. On second thought PC Part Picker says it will. Maybe try something like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($289.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus P8H77-V ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($115.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: ATI FirePro V5900 2GB Video Card ($429.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 500R White ATX Mid Tower Case ($119.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk II 750W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1461.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

geofelt · Oct 31, 2012

Your build will work, but I think you can do better.

1) Video editing can be cpu intensive. The 3770 is very good.
But, for $20 more, a 6% increase, you will get several benefits.
The stock clock rate will be 3.5 vs 3.4.
More importantly, you will preserve your option to overclock.
A very conservative overclock will yield a 25% improvement in performance.
When, at the end of your payback period, you will get back more than the $20 for a "K" version.

2) How many expansion slots do you plan on using? Perhaps a less expensive M-ATX motherboard with 4 will serve you just as well as a full ATX with 7.

3) Corsair 500R is a nice looking case. But, for 1/3 the price, you can buy a good quality Antec 100/200/300 case.

4) The psu needs are gated by the graphics configuration. A GTX560ti needs only a 500w psu.
Here is a handy list of psu requirements:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
Buy only a quality brand. Here is a list tiered by quality:
http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx

5) For ram, buy a 16gb kit comprised of two 8gb sticks. It is easier for a motherboard to manage the voltage of two sticks vs. 4.
It will also preserve your option to upgrade to 32gb if you ever need to. Past 16gb, you need the windows 7 pro or ultimate versions.
Ivy bridge is not sensitive to ram speeds. DDR3-1600 is fine.
Low profile ram costs no more, and will avoid any issues with a cpu cooler.

6) I love the 240gb SSD. From a reliability point of view, Samsung and Intel are the best.

7) cm hyper212 is a good pick.

8) Your two 1080P monitors could be attached via the integrated adapters. That way, you would not need a discrete video card.
But, some of your apps can make use of the CUDA capabilities of Nvidia graphics cards. I am no expert on that, so do your research on just how strong a card is required. I think it depends on having a minimum number of CUDA cores, and not how strong they are. I think the number is 32 which any modern card will have.
I think something like this evga GT610 for $53 will do the job:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130791

9) You did not ask, but do consider spending more for your monitors. They are one of the most long lasting components you can buy today. Consider buying a 2560 x 1440 27" monitor. It will have almost the same number of pixels as a pair of 1080P monitors(3.7m vs. 4m) But you will get a superior display with a better viewing angle. Yes, they are expensive($700). But this is a critical component for your work and deserves top quality. Consider buying two.

g-unit1111 · Oct 31, 2012

2) How many expansion slots do you plan on using? Perhaps a less expensive M-ATX motherboard with 4 will serve you just as well as a full ATX with 7.

Never limit expansion options on a full tower, under any circumstances. Going mATX if you are getting a full tower is a very bad idea, IMO.

6) I love the 240gb SSD. From a reliability point of view, Samsung and Intel are the best.

Intel SSDs are incredibly overrated. I had one and had nothing but problems with it. My Samsung drive is amazing though. The Corsair Neutron is supposed to be really good judging from the reviews I've been reading.

geofelt · Oct 31, 2012

g-unit1111 :

I can't argue against a full ATX in a full tower. Actually, the price differential can be small or none.
But if you have a restrictive space a M-ATX tower can be very nice.
After all, just how much does a case really need to hold?
Past a graphics card and ssd, you are usually looking at a couple of hard drives, and with 3tb drives available, not that many even then.

Too bad about your experience with an Intel SSD. I have used half a dozen with no issues at all.
One way to assess the satisfaction with SSD's is to check the number of negative(0-1 egg) reviews on newegg.
I have been doing that, and the results are a bit surprising. Samsung and Intel will have perhaps 4-7% in that category.
Others are typically twice that. A surprisingly good rating comes from Kingston SSD's.
I know it is not scientific, but it IS an indicator. Since most posters will be more likely to post dissatisfaction than report no problems, these % numbers will not be indicative of true failure rates. It is too early to tell about the Corsair neutron.

g-unit1111 · Oct 31, 2012

I can't argue against a full ATX in a full tower. Actually, the price differential can be small or none.
But if you have a restrictive space a M-ATX tower can be very nice.
After all, just how much does a case really need to hold?
Past a graphics card and ssd, you are usually looking at a couple of hard drives, and with 3tb drives available, not that many even then.

I honestly want to get the most bang for buck possible on my builds - and the only way to really do that is to keep all expansion options open. Limiting expansion hurts in the long run especially on a video editing rig where you'll be running more than two or three hard drives with several TB of files.

Too bad about your experience with an Intel SSD. I have used half a dozen with no issues at all.

Really. I guess maybe I just got a bad one, but even with the firmware update I still had all the problems everyone else experiences (BSODs, etc).

One way to assess the satisfaction with SSD's is to check the number of negative(0-1 egg) reviews on newegg.

Sometimes that helps but sometimes it doesn't. I got a Vertex 4 for my work PC and it's been problem free - even though it has a high percentage of negative reviews on Newegg.

rhino_43 · Oct 31, 2012

Well done, all, thank you for your input. Using your expertise, it looks like I can easily knock $200 off the top with these modifications:

CASE: Antec 900 Case ($100) (Still like the full ATX case and may upgrade in the future, so no mATX)
POWER: Corsair 750 Watt Gold ATX Power Block ($170)
MOBO: ASUS P8H77-V ($120) (nice catch on the h77 vs z77 -- no use in buying OC potential if i'm not OCing.
PROCESSOR: Intel® Core i7-3770 Processor ($300)
COOLING: CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo ($32) (Sticking with this because it's cheap and I'm a worry wart)
RAM: GSkillz Ripjaws 8GB (x2 sets) (16GB TOTAL) ($80)
GRAPHICS: EVGA GTX 660 Ti 2GB 256-bit ($200) (Nice catch here, for $50 more than the 560 I can triple the CUDA)
DATA STORAGE (INTERNAL/OS): Samsung 840 250 GB SATA3 SSD ($200)
-----> May add a 2 TB internal HDD at some point also.
DATA STORAGE (EXTERNAL): Toshiba-1TB External HD ($77)
OPTICAL: LG Blu-Ray Drive ($70) (Plus cheaper non Blu-Rays exist...)
NEW TOTAL FOR "TRIMMED" TOWER: $1349

I will look more into monitor options upon geofelt's suggestion.

But the remaining question I have (and likely a silly one at that) is since the i7 3770 supports dual monitors, what would be the ideal configuration for a dual monitor setup that could potentially decrease the CPU's load (if that even matters)?

i.e. the 3770 has onboard HD4000, allowing me to run two monitors from the MOBO. But would it make sense to split the monitors (one on MOBO and one on Vid Card) to decrease the CPUs overall workload? Would that even work? If so, would it keep the CPU cooler or open it up for additional applications? Is all this moot since it has integrated graphics that operate separately from the CPU cores? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to running a dual monitor setup using the 660ti only, or am I just wasting the 3770's abilities by doing so?

Feel free to school me! And many thanks for the direction thus far. I am in your debt.

g-unit1111 · Oct 31, 2012

CASE: Antec 900 Case ($100) (Still like the full ATX case and may upgrade in the future, so no mATX)

Get the 1100 instead - the 900 has no cable management and the HD cages are horrendous to work with. The 1100 is newer: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129178

POWER: Corsair 750 Watt Gold ATX Power Block ($170)

If you look at my post - the Seasonic X750 is currently 1/2 the price (but you have to buy today) and it's full modular and gold rated.

i.e. the 3770 has onboard HD4000, allowing me to run two monitors from the MOBO. But would it make sense to split the monitors (one on MOBO and one on Vid Card) to decrease the CPUs overall workload?

You can't do that. You can only run off the GPU or the onboard video, but not both. If one is disabled in the BIOS, it's not usable. And that will not help to decrease CPU workload.

geofelt · Oct 31, 2012

A 750wpsu is more than you need. But it is OK since a psu will only use the wattage demanded of it, regardless of it's top rating.
Today only, you can buy a top of the line Seasonic X750 modular gold rated psu for $100 after rebate @newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151087

A ram vendor will not support ram that is not in one single kit.
There can be incompatibilities between different batches.
Actually, a low profile version of that ram is cheaper in a single 16gb kit:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231558

My limited reading of CUDA limits it's use to 32 cuda cores, making an expensive nvidia card not necessary.
Due dilligence on your part may pay you here. I am no expert on cuda.

Where you attach monitors has a negligible impact on cpu operations.
If you have a discrete graphics card, I would attach them there.
If you go with 2560 x 1440 monitors, you will need a discrete card since the integrated graphics does not support more than 1920 x 1200.

If you do not oc a ivy bridge cpu, it will run very cool, and a aftermarket cooler is not needed.
But, I would still go with the cm hyper212.
Under load the 120mm fan will be quieter.
And, the backplate mount is easier for the novice to install. The stock Intel pushpins can be tricky.

geofelt · Oct 31, 2012

---------------------^
You can't do that. You can only run off the GPU or the onboard video, but not both. If one is disabled in the BIOS, it's not usable. And that will not help to decrease CPU workload.
-------------------
I think that restriction has changed.
I believe with current chipsets like H77 and Z77 you can run both integrated and dedicated attached monitors.
In fact, Quicksync editing requires the integrated graphics to be enabled, even if nothing is attached to it.

At one time, windows did not support multiple graphics drivers, but windows 7 certainly does.

Some are actually using this to support three displays.
Follow this forum thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=34162556

rhino_43 · Oct 31, 2012

I probably won't be purchasing until Cyber Monday...at least it makes sense to me as I'm hoping the best online deals will be offered then.

Good to know on the RAM. I'll follow up on that but definitely want to stick to the MOBOS qualified vendor list as to not upset the memory gods.

As far as my own CUDA knowledge -- it's also limited but from what I gather the more CUDA cores available, the better it is for the Mercury Playback Engine, which is closely tied to Adobe Premiere Pro in CS6. I will be paying the monthly fee for Adobe's Creative Cloud Service capabilities to edit HD video.

Provided the discrete video card can handle up to two 2560x1440s, I'll run both through the card -- but cost there is definitely an issue. I definitely prefer the larger workspace with a dual monitor setup so I may stick to the two 23" 1920x1080s. I understand I'd be sacrificing a richer display -- but considering I'm still happy with my LG 42" 720p Plasma TV from 2006, I can only assume that a full HD experience on 2 monitors would be pretty darn sweet. I also can only assume that two 23" 1920x1080 monitors wouldn't overtax/overheat the card, especially since it supports up to 4 concurrent monitors and I am not a PC gamer.

This is not only my first build, but my first big-time online order of *anything*, let alone a computer. I've just been getting more and more sick of the crapware in bundled prebuilts and saw the light when I realized I could build a video editing machine for way less than the purchase price of a MacPro or some other high-end warehouse custom build.

I'm sure you're all stallions with the process but I'm still a little noobish in the online purchase arena. I have excellent credit and plan on using Newegg exclusively. Any ballparks on the credit limit for that site or do you all just use a major card for your purchases?

Again, everyone's been really helpful. Thanks so much for pointing me the right direction! Have a good night and Happy Halloween!

geofelt · Oct 31, 2012

Not to worry about the load on the graphics card if you are not gaming. Even a $50 discrete card or integrated graphics can do HD movie playback. It is the fast action games that need a strong card.
The support of more than 2 concurrent monitors comes with caveats, depending on the card. It may require mini/hdmi attachment for example.

That reminds me, do you have some sort of speakers in your build?
They need not be expensive.

As a suggestion, download and read, cover to cover, the motherboard and case manuals ahead of time.

g-unit1111 · Nov 1, 2012

geofelt :

On my board if you disable the onboard GPU it's completely disabled. I haven't seen anything in Windows that allows you to run the Intel HD video in addition to having a GPU. Maybe on some laptops but not on desktops.

geofelt · Nov 1, 2012

g-unit1111 :

Have you tried on your main Z77 motherboard?
I think you should be able to.
You will need to install the chipset video drivers.

I don't think the functionality is there on the others, certainly not the P67 which has no integrated graphics, or on the Z68 which
is older.
On the Z77, having displayport active on the integrated adapter may be the cause of the issue since it takes over the X16 pcie bandwidth.
You might want to look at this article on the Z77 introduction. Among other things, it
Talks about using the integrated adapter to improve performance of a discrete card by not rendering portions of the display that do not change.
If you are inclined to experiment, Post your results and include a link from here so we can find it.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/intel-z77.html

g-unit1111 · Nov 1, 2012

geofelt :

Yeah I'll check this out and see what happens. My board is the Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H.

This is not only my first build, but my first big-time online order of *anything*, let alone a computer. I've just been getting more and more sick of the crapware in bundled prebuilts and saw the light when I realized I could build a video editing machine for way less than the purchase price of a MacPro or some other high-end warehouse custom build.

That's one reason I'm heavily against pre built machines - they include lots of crapware like Norton. If you build it yourself you control what goes in your PC.

Mac Pros aren't worth it at all - you could go full X79 for the cost of the least expensive Mac Pro.

I'm sure you're all stallions with the process but I'm still a little noobish in the online purchase arena. I have excellent credit and plan on using Newegg exclusively. Any ballparks on the credit limit for that site or do you all just use a major card for your purchases?

You can use any major credit card with Newegg, and they're really good about what you can and cannot purchase. They're pretty much all I ever use any more, although I also really like NCIX.

allanitomwesh · Nov 1, 2012

You want a gtx 5XX card. The 6XX series were worse at compute tasks if I remember, and there's an exploit to turn a 570 into a quaddro too if I recall.
+1 on a single pack of ram,2X8. Gskill Ares are the low ones.
A pro version of windows.Ultimate is overrated,you don't need security extras.

rhino_43 · Nov 1, 2012

I own a set of 5.1 speakers (1 central, 2 sides, 2 rears and a sub) that I can attach for surround. Hopefully that's not an issue, though there have been some complaints about the H77 Asus MOBO audio. If it's not faulty I should be in good shape.

Still have a lot of reading to do on the MOBO manual to ensure I connect everything correctly. May change the case as I've never done cable management but want something relatively clean.

Baby had to go to the ER tonight so I'm a bit wound down. Will check this thread tomorrow but I do appreciate all the insight. Have a good night gentlemen.

rhino_43 · Nov 2, 2012

Thanks again all. Looks like I have my build all set.

Chances are good when I put it all together and it doesn't work I'll be back here for advice. I'm no expert on downloading drivers and BIOS configs so I bet I'll be looking for some guidance there. But hey, gotta start somewhere. Not sure what I'd consider the "best answer" since all this was so helpful, so I'll leave it open for now and close in a day or two if anyone wants to offer more feedback. Have a good weekend!

geofelt · Nov 2, 2012

rhino_43 :

Some advice for a first time builder:

1) download now, the motherboard and case manuals.
Read them cover to cover before parts arrive.

2) Buy a #2 magnetic tip phillips head for assembly. It is invaluable for getting screws into tight places.
Just be careful. The magnetism is just strong enough to hold a screw.
Just keep it away from parts.

3) Assemble the cpu, cooler, ram etc outside the case first to check that all parts work. If your motherboard does not have a pwr button, a momentary touch of the two motherboard PWR pins will get things started. If you post and can see the bios, you are good and can then put the parts into the case. Leave the case covers off initially. You may want to do some cable rearrangement or ...

4) Verify that the sata mode is AHCI before you load the os. Put the SSD on one of the 6gb sata ports. Other devices don't matter. After loading the os, install all of the ddrivers that come with the motherboard cd.
Just do the drivers, and no apps. Some are crapware, and anything you want can be loaded later.

5) Do not update the bios unless you have a problem that needs fixing. A failed update can brick your motherboard.
-----good luck----------

rhino_43 · Nov 29, 2012

Well all -- quick update. Ordered the parts and I hope everything shows up by Saturday for the build. Here's what I ended up getting:

CASE - Rosewill Blackhawk
PSU - Corsair Gold AX 750
MOBO - ASUS P8H77-V
CPU - Intel i7-3770 (non-K)
COOLING - CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo
RAM - GSkillz Ripjaws 8GB (x2 sets)
GC - EVGA GTX 660 Ti 2GB 256-bit
HDD(I) - Samsung 840 250 GB SATA3 SSD
HDD(I) - (PREOWNED) 80GB Seagate 7200 SATA (for scratch drive)
(2)HDD(E) - Seagate Expansion 1TB USB 3.0
OPTICAL - LG Blu-Ray Drive
(2)MONI: ASUS 23" VH236H LCDs

Only debating now on a fan controller (only 1 of Rosewill's case fans are pinned, the rest are Molex.) I'll have to wait and see how loud a PSU daisy chain is before I decide if I need a fan controller. I hear the Rosewill case fans are pretty quiet, and I'm not a "noise stickler" like some of the many reviewers out there.

Anyway, thanks for all the help! Once I get everything running I plan to set up my new CS6 account and do a video review of the entire system. If all goes well with that I'll post a link here.

slatanek · Dec 1, 2012

These screens are simple TN panels. Those are no good for video editing. You should definetely get IPS screens especially as you'll work with 2 of them you'll be very often looking at the screen offaxis, so with TN panels you'll see slight color shifts. It can get annoying after a while. Just saying...

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