Video Encoding Build

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jlamb1051

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My previous build's MB went bad. I would like to use some of my exising items to build aroound. I need a new MB, CPU, and RAM. Here's my info:


APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: this week

BUDGET RANGE: $500-$600

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: HD and SD Video Editing/Encoding (Powerdirector 8, Convertxtodvd, dvdfab, among a variety of others), Photo Editing (Latest Adobe Photoshop), Music, Light gaming.

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, Win 7 64 bit, 2 Seagate Barracuda's 7200 RPM SATA II in raid setup, bd reader writer and dvd reader writer. ATX Case. OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI 700W ATX12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply. Nvidia GTS 250 1GB

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: typically use newegg but would use TigerDirect

PARTS PREFERENCES: i5 or i7 quad core (would i7 w/ hyperthreading be beneficial for my uses?) Would 1156 or 1366 would be best for my uses? RAM according to MB/CPU combo

OVERCLOCKING: not likely, but might if easy to use

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1920x1080

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:

Basically, I need a MB, CPU, and RAM. I may upgrade to SSD as they become cheaper in the future. Since I game very little I probably dont need a dual GPU setup. Thanks for your help in advance.

Jasson


 
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Alvin Smith

Alvin Smith

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My best advice flaunts your parts preferences, as I would recommend an 890FX/GX and a Phenom-II x4 955 Black with aftercooling. I'll throw some links, if you are at all intersted in exploring that route.

My recommendation would be significantly less expensive and would almost be over-kill, for Power-Director and PS.

I really DO LIKE ALL your other parts and the 250GTS should rock.

= Al =
 
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Alvin Smith

Alvin Smith

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That all looks very swell, BUT ... I VERY SERIOUSLY doubt that PowerDirector8+ or his usage of PS are going to address or implement more than 4 cores.

There are more modern mobos, too, but that one would sure do, in a pinch. My mind thinks that Thuban should be with 890 chipset, when possible (JMO).

The Hyper212 (last time I checked) was way over-priced and the Zahlman 120mm stack comes with much better fan and all hardware to mount 2nd fan (which 212 does not) and, of course ... good paste. ... for $50 USD

Not meaning to "tear it up", by any means, ... just think these would be slight improvements which would also provide native USB3/SATA3 ports and a factory config that had Thuban clearly in mind.

= Al =
 
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mosox

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Yep, true but I think the video encoding changes pretty fast and one doesn't know what programs will use next year.

I'm not an expert but it seems the X264 will be the new rage (much better quality they say) and apparently it uses all the cores one can throw at it. In the older encoding applications (DivX, etc) the medium priced Intel i7's still have some lead over the Thuban but it seems things are changing fast and in the newer applications the Thuban is almost as fast as the i7-975 who costs three times as much as a 1090T.

Handbrake too can use 6 cores from what I know:

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1289/11/

But I don't know for his specific applications though only used ConvertXtoDVD some time ago. For the mobo I didn't want to go over his budget, a 890 would be nice.

LE: Forgot to put this link:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3674/amds-sixcore-phenom-ii-x6-1090t-1055t-reviewed/6


 
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jlamb1051

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Al,

Thanks for the info. I am not opposed to AMD I just know nothing about AMD setups. All the research I have done is towards Intel i7 series with 1156 and 1366 sockets. Any addl info or links you suggested would be appreciated. BTW, How well do you think the GTS 250 would interact with AMD setup?

Thx, Jasson
 
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jlamb1051

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coldsleep

coldsleep

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For video editing, an i7 build will likely be better than an AMD build. I don't think that an i5 build would see a huge improvement over AMD, however. The AMD 6 core processors are very good at highly-threaded applications, but that's mostly just 3D rendering right now and some HD video apps. 1090T X6 vs. i7-920 (930 not on the charts). (Of course, if you use anything heavily that the X6 beats the i7, you might consider going that route.)

Those components look good. If you wanted to spend $20 more, you could get a G.Skill 1600 MHz CAS 7 6 GB kit, but that puts you even further over your proposed budget.

EDIT: I'd start out with 6 GB of RAM now, if you need more, you can always add it later. In order to afford more RAM on the given budget, you'd probably need to switch to an AMD build and get 8 GB, which isn't really a significant improvement.
 
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jlamb1051

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thx for the info. What is the benefit of cas 7 vs cas 8 RAM? I am not attempting to question your advice, I just dont know what the difference is. I probably won't overclock much. Will that make a difference?

thx,

jasson
 
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coldsleep

coldsleep

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The lower the CAS is, the faster the RAM. However, it's unlikely you'd notice a large difference in day-to-day usage. It might have an effect on long encoding passes, but even then we're probably talking seconds or maybe a minute or two, not like, half an hour off of a 2hour process. If you had the budget available, I'd go for it, but it's not worth blowing your budget any more. :)

This wikipedia article is a pretty good overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency
 
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Alvin Smith

Alvin Smith

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Pure AMD/ATi chipset mobos do not support SLI (a gaming bridge between two cards) ... but ... You can most definately drop two (any two) iVidia cards into any AMD board (that has two or more GPU slots) and gang the for combined CUDA compute and for more than two (up to 4) monitors ...

SLI is for gaming (speed) and not for editing ... A little hard to explain but, if you are running SLI, you can't edit with 3 monitors, anyway ... Remove SLI and the drivers will gang the compute cores and output for accelerated 3 or 4 monitor editing. ... Many folks run one nVidia card and a Blackmagic Design Intensity Card, for the 3rd output monitor ... but you would definately need to go 1366, and CS5 to do all that HD-SDI bandwidth stuff ... and a fast RAID-0 array, as well.

Definately out of MY ball-park, at this juncture. It all comes down to your (realistically considered) toolsets and bitrates and the volume of your monthly output (minutes of programming).

... My tools AMD/Athlon-II x4/VEGAS 10 Production Bundle and a passive cooled 240GT is almost 3x faster than my P4, which was moderately capable for DV-25, and so ... My meager bid will have to suffice ... And yet, this rig is way more than enough for use as a Digital Audio ws or 1080P/BR Home Theater or a multi monitor super-surfer or school/office PC or as a home multi-server ... so ... I ain't gonna cry about cheaping out, 'cause this whimpy rig is over-kill for almost 85% of what I do ... as for the rest? ... media transcodes and output renders ? ... Hey ... I might have to wait FOUR hours ... instead of TWO ... on a fancy hi-rez project.

Better internet bandwidth and a boot/apps SSD will go further, towards balancing my demands.

... your call ... obviously.

= Al =
 
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Alvin Smith

Alvin Smith

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Sure ... With a 120mm push-pull stack cooler, that would be way more than dandy.

... If you can afford that cost ... and ... if you can justify that cost ... go4it !

... My Proc was $100 .. My RAM was $105 .. My mobo was $140 (splurged)

... When I "demote" this compute core (in 18 months), I will re-install the stock cooler and transfer my super-cooler to an "X59"ish build.

... the fact that I already owned a "new" (still in box) Antec 480Watt power supply also played into my own decision. That's another $80, right there. ... But no way it would push a 930 and a FERMI 460.

You have the luxury of applying those earmarks toward a beefier build.

Basically, over five years, for TWO complete systems ... I can limp, on this "junk", for 18 months ... no prob ... THEN get Surplus "legacy" x8 Core 1366 guts, when they are much cheaper and, I will end up with a free system, because this junk build will move from this new rack chassis, into an old ATX tower that is still most excellent.

I just don't think that even local professional event videos really justify the whole cost of a premium computer build with sw tools that cost nearly $2K and a $5K ENG Camera ... $10K (easily) ... more, with pro mics or studio lighting, filters, batts, et. al. ... And DAW interface ... can run up to a grand.

That said ... I had better be raking in all kinds of dependable income, from such an outlay, to ensure some significant return on investments.

= Was that a double-posted over-share ??? =

(ain't espresso wonderful, at midnight?) :bounce: :eek:





= Al =
 
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jlamb1051

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What would you think of this build with AMD vs the Intel build?

msi 890fxa-gd70

phenom II x6 1050t

8gb (4X2GB) gskill ripjaw (Cas Latency 7; timing 7-8-7-24-2N)

I can do this build for $555 versus $638 and have 2 addl GB of RAM. How would the performance of this build compare to the intel build?


thx for all your help,

Jasson
 
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Alvin Smith

Alvin Smith

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yup ... A 460 (1GB GDDR5) GPU would round that out quite nicely. Good Mobo Too.

.. That GPU won't be in channel for 'nuther couple a weeks. Well worth.

Quite frankly, my hope, given your relaxed demands (ATM) would be that you go for a cheaper chip and mobo, and a moderate GPU, like the 250 or 9800GT-EE(PB). because that would also allow a smaller cheaper PSU and less need for any radical case or CPU cooling.

I can't "feel that out", for you but I would just say, "either reach for the sky or cheap out totally". ... "Either make this system as robust and powerfully balanced as you can possibly afford, so that it can handle any pro sw suites (X58+460) ... OR ... Do what I did and build an x4Core Athlon-II or x4 Phenom-II and a mainstream 890 mobo with a 240GT or 250GT (or 9800GT-EE(PB)) ... and make that work for you until all your current projects and ideas are played out ... A year and a half, or two.

Again ... my point on this second strategy is that any "power" (at your expense) that is NOT USED is completely wasted money.

So I am just saying that, whatever you get ... be certain that you will fully exploit ALL it's power, and, frequently enough to fully amortize your initial outlay.

This stuff depreciates rapidly ... so if you are not using most of the power, most of the time ... you will just be watching your money evaporate.

I mean ... sure ... everybody knows this ... but now is the time for you to "really git down" and suss it out ... to your own, ultimate benefit.

= blah-blah-blah ... etc. ... ad nauseum = [:boudy:1]

 
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mosox

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If you are a professional you won't use the i7 or the Thuban for encoding. If you do video encoding as a hobby and not making money out of it you can use pretty much any CPU.

In encoding the only difference is the time it takes. But that doesn't mean you can't do some other stuff on your PC while you're encoding or that you have to sit at the computer.

Let's see i7 940 vs 1055T

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/46?vs=147

The biggest time difference is at the DivX, 34.8 sec vs 43.7 seconds. That's 25%, so one hour of encoding on the i 7 will take 1 hour 15 min on the Thuban.

If that's important to you get the best CPU, i7. If it's not, get the cheapest. Thuban, having 6 cores (I don't have one) probably will let you do some other demanding stuff on the PC in the same time I don't know about Intel, probably that one too but only on 4 cores.

Another way is to use your GPU's CUDA for encoding, it's faster than anything else.

We usually say "this is better for encoding" but keep in mind that the quality is the same in encoding on a Sempron vs i7, the only difference is the time.



 
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Alvin Smith

Alvin Smith

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... and ... for anything OTHER than RENDERING ... 4 cores at better than 3GHz is more than ample.

The issue is if volume or deadlines are critical or if you just do lot's of projects ...
... For me, ... my uploads to YouToob can take as long as major renders, so .. gotta think in terms of total work-flow and thruput.

... I mean ... there are bottlenecks all over the place and, who cares if a render takes half as long if your upload speed tanks your flow.

= burrrp =
 
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jlamb1051

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Al, or anyone willing to give $.02.

I am leaning more towards your direction to go the cheap way. I currently have 4GB of corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 CL 5 and timings of 5-5-5-18 that I can reuse from my previous build (4X1GB). Was thinking of getting phenom II x4 955 black edition (newegg has for $149) and a mobo that supports ddr2 and am3 processor. I dont have anything at the moment using sata III or USB 3.0, and I could always get an expansion card on the cheap later if I need it. In doing this build it should accomplish my current needs and in a year or two may look at complete new build with SSD, sata III, USB 3.0 as prices come down. At that time I will probably give this rig to my dad to use (which should serve him well). With this build I should be able to come in around $250 and have a build that does a reasonably good job at handling all my tasks with the GTS250 in it....does this make any sense? Do you have any mobo ideas that support DDR2 and would utilize the AMD 955 chip well?

BTW, this http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-x4-955,2278-3.html article at Toms hardware was interesting concerning ddr2 vs ddr3 with this chip. Their article uses ddr2 1066 at cl 5 (vs 800 cl 5 that i have) and compares with ddr3 1600 cl 8. Results showed minimal improvement. At end of article it mentions single digit % performance increases.

Thx in advance,

Jasson Lamb
 
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Alvin Smith

Alvin Smith

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That's correct ... one step in RAM speed equals about two-three steps in CAS which could also be acheived by boosting your CPU by 0.1 GHz ...

... The 955 does have a DDR2 mem cntrlr on board but, yes, you definately do need a mobo that supports that ... look at ASUS or Gigabyte 7xx chipset mobos and look at the specs (newegg).

... we can chat more, over the weekend, after prime-time.

= Al =
 
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